DiRT Rally 2.0 Hands-On Preview: Magical Stage Design, Tarmac Physics Need Work

[MrCrynox]

If they released the base game with 3 rehashed locations and 3 new ones and added Argentina and NZ as paid DLC that would have created equally as much complaining if not more imo.

I understand that people have opinions about old(although reworked) stages as paid DLC. It's still optional and if you don't want to pay for these you don't have to.

I also understand people that think it's too light on content. In my opinion it's quality over quantity in this case though, even if I obviously would have wanted as many unique kilometers as possible.

There's two choices buy at launch or wait until it reaches the price point one is happy with. I think we will all be happy in the end

 

[bogani]

There's two choices buy at launch or wait until it reaches the price point one is happy with. I think we will all be happy in the end

Can't argue with that 👍

 

[Slapped]

Despite my reservations about the tarmac handling and the DLC controversy I think I'll preorder the "deluxe" version this weekend. It's the only up and coming game for PS4 that I have any real interest in, plus my credit card owes me money at the moment.

 

[Rodger Davies]

Yes but nobody makes you pay for the Nurburgring over and over as DLC, it's always in the standard game.

I definitely paid for it as DLC in Assetto Corsa, Raceroom. And would have to in iRacing. And for the extra layouts in Project Cars (for the combo with the GP track). And those are all using the exact same laser scan model (I think).

 

[fernandito]

@doblocruiser Look at it a certain way; in business, you've got a budget. Codemasters have been given a budget to work on.

That's codies problem to deal with, not ours.

 

[MagpieRacer]

That's codies problem to deal with, not ours.

They are dealing with it, you're all just getting on with it.

Edited: clearly caused an offence.

 

[MrCrynox]

They are dealing with it, you're all just whining about the results.

I can only hear difference of opinion.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I can only hear difference of opinion.

Budgets aren't opinion they're reality.

 

[fernandito]

you're all just whining about the results.

Of course we do, because we must.

Budgets aren't opinion they're reality.

So is our wallet

 

[MrCrynox]

@MagpieRacer I was responding to your whining about the results comment.

 

[Silver Arrows]

They are dealing with it, you're all just whining about the results.

Because if nobody is 'whining' about Codemasters practices with regards to how they operate with their games, and now with how they operate their DLC releases, then it allows them to continue pushing to see where the pressure point is.

Chances are, if this was EA doing the same thing as Codies are doing with the run up to release, then I guarantee 99% of this thread would be (rightful) bashing of their practices.

So what makes Codemasters any different, selling barely remastered stages as DLC content instead of at least putting it in the game at launch? Is it because they are in a niche within a niche, which allows them to get away with it?

All of this budget ***** really is doing a wonderful job of obfuscuating the truth of the matter: the way that Codemasters has done their games is outdated in a genre where change happens fast. Fire and forgetting games, selling rehashed stages as DLC when they should have been in the game from the start, killing studios that could have helped them modernize and move away from the dinosaur of an engine that is EGO, and so many others. Though as you seem to be doing, things are hunky dory. They aren't, and you are seeing that in the (valid) criticisms being leveled against Codemasters as DR2 gets closer to release.

 

[MrCrynox]

And what of 'the budget' ? Nobody knows what the budget is for DR2, for all we know it could be sky high. Although not a first party they are still a big and well known studio who have been around since the dawn of time.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Just to be clear I'm not questioning your so called opinions. I'm just clarifying that budget will be a factor when people keep saying it's not.

 

[bogani]

That's codies problem to deal with, not ours.

And they have dealt with it in the way they see best fit.
If it's not to your liking you don't give them your money. Simple as that.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Phantom post..

 

[fernandito]

Just to be clear I'm not questioning your so called opinions. I'm just clarifying that budget will be a factor when people keep saying it's not.

Their budget must be so tight given the annual benefit their F1 licence pays alone instalment after instalment under the law of minimum development effort. Not to mention Dirt tittles by themselves do real nice on the sales too, so they must not be the poorest or most humble game developer out there. We could also consider the fact they've been using the same engine for twelve years in a row, engine totally outdated that is in dire need of replacement for superior physics achievement in future tittles.

It's very hard buying some arguments after many years hearing the same story.

And they have dealt with it in the way they see best fit.
If it's not to your liking you don't give them your money. Simple as that.

That I do, when I see fit too. Thing is when somebody that is a beta tester and has some privileges previously signed on contract when it comes to early play and advertise of the game tells me what to do with my money. Man that funny indeed you know; i mean I never tell you what to do with the money and the visits on your channel that you get thanks to codemasters. You get the point do you

 

[Rodger Davies]

@fernandito I'm confused. The only thing he said was that you're not forced to spend money on it if you don't think it's good value for you. It's not like he or anyone else here is saying you have to buy it, it's entirely up to you as to what 'value' is, no-one else can tell you that.

I'd like to play Europa Universalis IV but I can't cope with the sheer quantity of DLC and the fact that the AI doesn't benefit from improvements if you don't buy it, nor do I know which bits offer the best value. Therefore it's not of value to me. Il2 Sturmovik offers me 10 planes every two years for a higher cost than DR2, but I'll snap each of those up because it offers great value to me.

Every studio has a budget to work with. That budget is determined by predicted sales. That reality is a constant in any game. If you expect something that it would cost them more to do than they can make back in sales, then you're asking for the impossible I'm afraid. I'm not saying that's the case in this instance and I completely respect anyone's right not to buy something, but to objectively claim a company is 'greedy' or 'lazy' (not you, but both have been stated) is just not looking at reality.

To me, DR2 represents a step forward in every area that I felt the original was deficient in. Therefore it should offer good value to me. I thought the same about D4 and was wrong.

 

[bogani]

Their budget must be so tight given the annual benefit their F1 licence pays alone instalment after instalment under the law of minimum development effort. Not to mention Dirt tittles by themselves do real nice on the sales too, so they must not be the poorest or most humble game developer out there. We could also consider the fact they've been using the same engine for twelve years in a row, engine totally outdated that is in dire need of replacement for superior physics achievement in future tittles.

It's very hard buying some arguments after many years hearing the same story.
That I do, when I see fit too. Thing is when somebody that is a beta tester and has some privileges previously signed on contract when it comes to early play and advertise of the game tells me what to do with my money. Man that funny indeed you know; i mean I never tell you what to do with the money and the visits on your channel that you get thanks to codemasters. You get the point do you

Where did I tell you how to spend your money?

I have zero DR2.0 things on my "channel". If you think I'm one of them Youtubers your wrong. Maybe I should be one though, you say it generates money?

I get absolutely nothing for talking about DR2.0, I'm merely giving some insights to what you can expect since I've had the privilege to beta test it. By no means you have to believe me, what I think is good maybe isn't what you think is good. In the end noone but yourself can decide if you think it's good value for money or not.

 

[fernandito]

@fernandito To me, DR2 represents a step forward in every area that I felt the original was deficient in.

And which areas may be those that you felt lacking in the original, apart from the content?

 

[MagpieRacer]

And which areas may be those that you felt lacking in the original, apart from the content?

It's built on so many areas. Physics gave been taken apart and rebuilt from the ground up, new environmental effects, new road physics, stage degradation, weather effects, hardcore damage mode (similar to what F1 did), 25 new to dirt rally cars at launch (can't ignore the content).

It's not about what it lacked, it's about where it's been built on. It lacked a bit in road feel in certain areas, tarmac of course needs work, damage wasn't always as game ending as it could be, weather effects didn't have too much effect (for me at least) on the car.
Stage degradation has been one of the most requested features in any rally game not just Dirt.

 

[GTMajarcus]

It's built on so many areas. Physics gave been taken apart and rebuilt from the ground up, new environmental effects, new road physics, stage degradation, weather effects, hardcore damage mode (similar to what F1 did), 25 new to dirt rally cars at launch (can't ignore the content).

It's not about what it lacked, it's about where it's been built on. It lacked a bit in road feel in certain areas, tarmac of course needs work, damage wasn't always as game ending as it could be, weather effects didn't have too much effect (for me at least) on the car.
Stage degradation has been one of the most requested features in any rally game not just Dirt.

I would also add tire choice, which doesn’t seem to be mentioned much for some reason. I am really looking forward to that aspect of realism. I watched WRC Monte Carlo two weeks ago, and tire choice was huge in a rally like that.
Also 8 RallyCross tracks this time around (content). 3 was not enough for me personally.

 

[Rodger Davies]

And which areas may be those that you felt lacking in the original, apart from the content?

Loads. To be honest, the patch that came with Finland almost broke the game for me. I continued to enjoy it until Dirt 4 came out, but unfortunately that destroyed my interest in both. DiRT 4 fixed the immersion-breaking weight issue from DR1, but the stages in DiRT 4 were so immersion-breaking themselves. Not to mention D4 completely breaking my favourite cars, the H2 RWDs (and, personal bugbear, moved the Stratos into a different class to the Escort and 131 for some unknown reason).

So, in summary:

- The weightlessness issue was the big one. Completely immersion breaking. It's one reason I'd love to see the DR1 Finnish stages back in DR2; I thought the artwork was superb, but the stages were completely broken with powerful cars.
- No rally multiplayer. D4 did this well but I wasn't playing it when they introduced the leagues system at last. Looking forward to finally playing in a couple of leagues from forums I'm in.
- The first game always felt very stripped back, as it was basically a tech demo. That said, I liked its basic approach to career; I could focus on driving. D4 tried to do too much but ended up feeling 'gamey' in its approach (ambitious done badly). DR2 looks like a reasonable middle ground.
- Lack of ongoing support and updates. I wanted the 'gravity' fixed and more content to be added, so it was more like Assetto Corsa and other games in that it evolves and improves over time.
- You said 'aside from content' but that ended up being one of the major ones. It's why I personally would rather have 3 'old' rallies, completely updated with the new features, than 1 'new' rally; I just want more kilometres in game. I've not touched DR1 for a couple of years really, so I don't remember the stages in detail.
- One last bugbear; I hated that career mode gave you worse weather on advanced difficulty levels. I guess DR2 will be the same but hope they'll change that if so!


The other new things are all logical steps of progression. Tyre options, surface degredation are both interesting new features. I fear (after D4) that they may not be able to tailor the AI to cope with it.

 

[fernandito]

The downforce loss or weak gravity effect introduced by V2 physics affects 2000 cars only. Yes those are my last favourite rally cars before they got so ugly and Subaru and almost everyone abandoned WRC, but those were 2 cars only (to me the subaru 2001-02 and the focus 1998. The other focus and C4 don't exist to me) to be affected. I think 2010 cars were updated to it too, but it doesn't matter as I despise all those cars given I no longer follow WRC since 2006 or so when everybody left and cars got so ugly, sincerely.

All you have to do is picking GroupA cars or one among the many other categories which still run under legacy physics, which were awesome to say the least even on tarmac. Hillclimb cars got updated as well, but for the better that time around.

I agree about the multiplayer. No rally online with either staggered starts or ghost cars against other players in a lobby was unacceptable. I still don't know whether or not we will be able to finally do this on DR2, but according to rumours it will be the same story in dr2 but with that league thing, which to me means nothing. So I'm left under the same circumstances regarding MP on dr2. No MP again, even less chances to buy it, let alone this shouls have been adressed since the first dirt rally, as It was one of the most glaring absences in it. Yeah Rallycross will have MP against others, but rallycross is not rally.

Obviously, as you advanced through DR1 career, weather conditions get harsher. I think it is a normal thing given the increased difficulty don't you think. This is rally, you and your machine against nature and clock, not the quick passionless destruction derby rallycross actually is, which has nothing to do with the former discipline, and which should have its own separate instalment once and for all, leaving all that wasted occupied space for more rally content, rather than cutting and reselling it as DLC. DLC should have been all about new rally locations, one at least.

 

[kikie]

Hardcore damage model! Wreckfest level?

I'm going to love this game so much and probably going to crash my cars unconsciously all the time in Dirt 2.0.

 

[doblocruiser]

I'll pick up DR2 also but it will be further down the line. Because all of this I've gone back to D4 since that game didn't get a lot of milage.

It's a lot more enjoyable than I thought it would be.

DR2 is probably going to be a summer/autumn purchase or there must be a nice sale sooner.

Looking forward to all impressions 👍

 

[bogani]

The downforce loss or weak gravity effect introduced by V2 physics affects 2000 cars only.

What on earth are you talking about? Did you not play the game after the Flying Finland update? The 2000's were the first ones with V2 but all cars got updated to V2 eventually.

 

[fernandito]

^I can't see V2 physics affecting the rest of the cars other than 2000 and 2010, categories that If I recall well were the only ones to get the physics update applied to. Then they updated hillclimb cars and the game was left ready for console launch.

 

[bogani]

^I can't see V2 physics affecting the rest of the cars other than 2000 and 2010, categories that If I recall well were the only ones to get the physics update applied to. Then they updated hillclimb cars and the game was left ready for console launch.

From the Winter Wonderland release notes:

"Here’s the rundown of other stuff that’s new this month:

• The Group B RWD, Hillclimb and Kit Cars have been upgraded to v2 handling.
• Now that all cars are up to v2 spec, the Self Aligning Torque has been re-balanced to support the new handling"

 

[GTMajarcus]

Maybe someone can sort me out on this - what do I get for pre ordering the Deluxe edition, as opposed to buying it a couple weeks after release? Obviously not the ‘4 day early access’, but is there anything else? It seems the Porsche is included with Deluxe either way.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Maybe someone can sort me out on this - what do I get for pre ordering the Deluxe edition, as opposed to buying it a couple weeks after release? Obviously not the ‘4 day early access’, but is there anything else? It seems the Porsche is included with Deluxe either way.

You get 5 early unlock cars and the season pass which will give you 2 seasons of content over a 6 month release period. Totalling 12 cars and 6 locations.