DLC #4 vs. GT6

[1241Penguin]

GT3 sold 14+ million copies, not GT4. GT4 managed 11+ million copies. GT5 is currently at 7+ million. ^

 

[mcfizzle]

It's also surprising how many people are going to be happy to spend £300+ on a new console just to play another GT game when many people only shelled out £200 - £425 on a PS3 for GT5. Are you going to buy a new console for each GT game in future? I'd rather have 2 games minimum per console.

Are you really surprised people are willing to spend money for new tech? Have you seen how crazy people can go when a new version of a phone or tablet comes out one year after the previous model?

I want a new console because I play tons of games, not just GT, and it feels like it's hit its limits. I've had a PS3 for almost 5 years now and I'm happy with that time, but I'm ready to find out what's next? What more can they do, how can developers better take advantage of online? For a next gen GT game I want to see 20-25 cars on track in an online race. And before anyone says crashfest, I don't go in open lobbies where it probably would be horrible. With good clean racers, like WRS, it would be amazing.

 

[RedBaron]

We either get GT6 soon and wait 3-5 years for the PS4 game, or we wait 3-5 years for GT6 on the PS4. PD waiting until PS4 to give us GT6 doesn't mean the PS4 GT game is going to come any faster. It just means that we won't have anything to do in the meantime. There is no option where we get a PS4 game really soon in the system's shelf life.

Furthermore, to assume PD making GT6 a PS4 title from the start will mean it will be a launch or launch window game is ridiculous, and goes against over a decade of precedent in regards to PD's development history.

We got Prologue and that was short in content, but like a game it was almost complete. OK, without photo mode and some further details, but with same boring A-spec system that final game has and where you are looking for some competitive race like for a needle in a haystack. Now when they have lot of content done in GT6 quality, new game system could be prepared right now on the paper and they will get development kits few months before launch, I hope that GT6 will be main launch title of PS4. GT3 was launch title, little short on content, but this is not the case now.

I have no problem to buy another console for better GT game. In fact, I do it always like that, plus Logitech DFP in case of GT4 and Logitech G25 + 46" LCD in case of GT5.

 

[Avenged7X]

You people would pick dlc 4 with probably only a few meager cars and a small expansion over a fresh new game loaded with content?

This.

 

[JaySin85]

Other then restructuring the game a bit, I don't see what else they could do with another PS3 GT. It's already very limited by the ram and graphics card, but I suppose there would be a few optimizations that could be done. In the end, it would be a minor improvement.

I would be totally fine with waiting till 2014 for a GT release on PS4. They could stick all their development time into it until release of PS4 then, instead of wasting time developing another PS3 based title that will still be limited in what they can do. So instead of doing that, they can create cars and tracks that can simply be swapped over to the new GT game on PS4.

Sure, they may not be able to add a ton more features this way, but at least we will get a stream of new cars and tracks (hopefully) that will keep us entertained in the mean time. Who knows, maybe they do still have a lot of room to work on features and improving GT5. Fine tuning the features of GT5 through DLC/updates is a good way to figure out how to properly develop the next game(as well as gaining revenue through DLC to fund development). Then when it comes out, we will all jump for joy at how amazing the PS4 GT game is, because we were patient and let them spend their time on it instead of wasting time on a PS3 variant that would probably not be so impressive.

 

[vandaliser]

Other then restructuring the game a bit, I don't see what else they could do with another PS3 GT. It's already very limited by the ram and graphics card, but I suppose there would be a few optimizations that could be done. In the end, it would be a minor improvement.

I would be totally fine with waiting till 2014 for a GT release on PS4. They could stick all their development time into it until release of PS4 then, instead of wasting time developing another PS3 based title that will still be limited in what they can do. So instead of doing that, they can create cars and tracks that can simply be swapped over to the new GT game on PS4.

Sure, they may not be able to add a ton more features this way, but at least we will get a stream of new cars and tracks (hopefully) that will keep us entertained in the mean time. Who knows, maybe they do still have a lot of room to work on features and improving GT5. Fine tuning the features of GT5 through DLC/updates is a good way to figure out how to properly develop the next game(as well as gaining revenue through DLC to fund development). Then when it comes out, we will all jump for joy at how amazing the PS4 GT game is, because we were patient and let them spend their time on it instead of wasting time on a PS3 variant that would probably not be so impressive.

Someone give this man a medal. Laid it out perfectly.

One of the biggest problems why that other game really has become bland and boring is because turn 10 in their infinite wisdom decided to release 3 forza games in one generation and that's not including horizon. As a result of this incremental updates, that series has suffered fatigue and that reflects in their pitiful mediocre sales whereby forza 3 outsold number 4 when it launched.

It's not turn 10's fault per se but you can only do so much with 2005 hardware. Eventually you are going to run into a bottle neck and no amount of optimisation will do anything.

Ofcourse that's not even mentioning putting new added features and gameplay setpieces that would require more RAM and processing power. That's why polyphony only releases two GT games in a generation. It keeps it fresh and the fanbase always interested.

This generation we had prologue in 2008 and number 5 in 2010. That's two GT games. We are in twilight years of the ps3 with a couple of swan songs in new god of war, last of us and Gureilla games new IP. Upon which all sony big hitters would transition to next generation.

So from a financial and development point of view Gran turismo 6 should be launched on the playstation 4 preferably during same launch window as Gt3 did for the ps2. We get new stuff as fans and sony gets the monies for it's new hardware. Win win for all parties

 

[Spagetti69]

^ Lol. Your funny.

 

[Terronium-12]

One of the biggest problems why that other game really has become bland and boring is because turn 10 in their infinite wisdom decided to release 3 forza games in one generation and that's not including horizon. As a result of this incremental updates, that series has suffered fatigue and that reflects in their pitiful mediocre sales whereby forza 3 outsold number 4 when it launched.

And you continue in this hopeless charade of quantifying the amount a game has sold to how good it is; now matter how many times you do it it's only going to be dissuaded by much of what I just said — quantity does not equate to quality. I suppose you think the Toyota Prius is a better car than, say, an M3 because it's sold more?

Also, answer me this: If PD released a GT game every two years without fail would you be complaining, or instead, would you be professing about how eloquently proficient they are in managing their time and resources?

It's not turn 10's fault per se but you can only do so much with 2005 hardware. Eventually you are going to run into a bottle neck and no amount of optimisation will do anything.

Is that why GT5 runs at a constant 60 frames? Oh, wait...

Is that why the RSX in the PS3 is better than Xenos? Oh, wait...

Point of the story? Aside from CBE, Blu-ray, and XDR... every bit of the 360's internal hardware is newer (or at the very least, more efficient) than the PS3's.

Ofcourse that's not even mentioning putting new added features and gameplay setpieces that would require more RAM and processing power. That's why polyphony only releases two GT games in a generation. It keeps it fresh and the fanbase always interested.

Or, you know, it could quite possibly have something to do with their accepted schedule for releasing games. Just a thought.

 

[1241Penguin]

One of the biggest problems why that other game really has become bland and boring is because turn 10 in their infinite wisdom decided to release 3 forza games in one generation and that's not including horizon.

Forza games bland and boring? That's a first.

It's not turn 10's fault per se but you can only do so much with 2005 hardware. Eventually you are going to run into a bottle neck and no amount of optimisation will do anything.

You need to take a look at how much the graphics have improved from Forza 2 to Forza 4.

Ofcourse that's not even mentioning putting new added features and gameplay setpieces that would require more RAM and processing power. That's why polyphony only releases two GT games in a generation. It keeps it fresh and the fanbase always interested.

Err... GT5 wasn't a fresh game to begin with. It's basically Gran Turismo 1 but with better graphics. PD uses the same forumla to create their GT games ever since GT1. And while GT1 was indeed a fun game, it's gameplay style is greatly outdated now.

This generation we had prologue in 2008 and number 5 in 2010. That's two GT games. We are in twilight years of the ps3 with a couple of swan songs in new god of war, last of us and Gureilla games new IP. Upon which all sony big hitters would transition to next generation.

I wouldn't even count GT5P as part of the official series, just a small taster of what to expect.

So from a financial and development point of view Gran turismo 6 should be launched on the playstation 4 preferably during same launch window as Gt3 did for the ps2. We get new stuff as fans and sony gets the monies for it's new hardware. Win win for all parties

Win win for everyone? What about the customer base who has to buy yet another console even though their old one still has potential left in it?

I honestly hope you're being funny/sarcastic...

 

[Samus]

As a result of this incremental updates, that series has suffered fatigue and that reflects in their pitiful mediocre sales whereby forza 3 outsold number 4 when it launched.

Gran Turismo 3 outsold Gran Turismo 4. Gran Turismo 1 outsold Gran Turismo 2.

 

[BlazeTheCat05]

Gran Turismo 1 outsold Gran Turismo 2.

To this very day, I'm still shocked at this fact. I understand GT1 is the granddaddy of GT games, but GT2 was far superior.

 

[Samus]

To this very day, I'm still shocked at this fact. I understand GT1 is the granddaddy of GT games, but GT2 was far superior.

I completely agree but I was just trying to show vandaliser how flawed his argument was.

 

[Tornado]

One of the biggest problems why that other game really has become bland and boring

Says the person who admitted that he has no experience with them.

 

[vandaliser]

Comments in red

And you continue in this hopeless charade of quantifying the amount a game has sold to how good it is; now matter how many times you do it it's only going to be dissuaded by much of what I just said — quantity does not equate to quality. I suppose you think the Toyota Prius is a better car than, say, an M3 because it's sold more?

Indeed quality is not equal to quantity. But the correlation is there for all to see.

Also, answer me this: If PD released a GT game every two years without fail would you be complaining, or instead, would you be professing about how eloquently proficient they are in managing their time and resources?

Null and void. You see PD do not simply nickel and dime their consumers. Gran turismo is not need for speed, forza, fifa, cod or other dime a dozen game series. A team as dedicated and small as PD will mean that GT will not be produced every two years.

Is that why GT5 runs at a constant 60 frames? Oh, wait...

I think you actually proved my point there thank you very much. Polyphony actually did optimisations on Gt5 framerate and the engine is quite different from version 1. At a cost of other thinsg such as spectators. So you can optimise to a certain point until you cant go any further. That's why gt6 is pointless on the ps3

Is that why the RSX in the PS3 is better than Xenos? Oh, wait...

Point of the story? Aside from CBE, Blu-ray, and XDR... every bit of the 360's internal hardware is newer (or at the very least, more efficient) than the PS3's.

GT5 is rendering more pixels at the same framerate as forza with inclusions of night and dynamic weather racing with added alpha affects and smoke. So all that ps3 strengths is not just idle

Err... GT5 wasn't a fresh game to begin with. It's basically Gran Turismo 1 but with better graphics. PD uses the same forumla to create their GT games ever since GT1. And while GT1 was indeed a fun game, it's gameplay style is greatly outdated now.

Gt5 is just gt1 with pretty graphics? Really? As for the outdated gameplay, well i could say it's such a shame that an outdated series keeps selling millions and shaming their nearest competitor. But i think i will say it's ironic that the outdated series allows to race a car in a terrifying pitch black green hell while the exciting one doesn't. Very definitiion of outdated gameplay i am sure you would agree

I wouldn't even count GT5P as part of the official series, just a small taster of what to expect.

It's a gran turismo game. Had an offline mode and an online mode. Decent number of cars which is more than some on the market. Sold shed loads too both digital and on Blu ray.

Win win for everyone? What about the customer base who has to buy yet another console even though their old one still has potential left in it?

It's 2012. Not 2007. consoles have shelf lives. There is no more 'potential' left. There's only so much polyphony's engineers can do with the hardware at hand.

I honestly hope you're being funny/sarcastic...

Maybe you were when you called GT5 as nothing more than GT1 with prettier graphics. But i certainly am being serious

Gran Turismo 3 outsold Gran Turismo 4. Gran Turismo 1 outsold Gran Turismo 2.

forza 3 outsold forza 2. forza 4 sold less than forza 3. Series has hit fatigue point. That's what happens when you put a car racing game on a 2 yearly cycle

Says the person who admitted that he has no experience with them.

Yes and that was what months ago? Times change. Had the priviledge of staying with my cousins and gaming on their xbox. It was forza 3 mind you. Had to try it. Wanted to see what the fuss was all about.


Anyways i thing the whole GT vs forza debate should be on the usual thread. I dont want the mods after me since i am already on thin ice as it were

 

[Tornado]

Indeed quality is not equal to quantity. But the correlation is there for all to see.

Null and void. You see PD do not simply nickel and dime their consumers.

 

[vandaliser]

Tornado,

Mario kart is actually fun. Unlike forza. You should try it out sometime. Fun=quality
And the paint system is not even on the same level as releasing games on a two year cycle with DLCs on top

 

[Terronium-12]

Null and void. You see PD do not simply nickel and dime their consumers. Gran turismo is not need for speed, forza, fifa, cod or other dime a dozen game series. A team as dedicated and small as PD will mean that GT will not be produced every two years.

I'm sorry, what? They don't... nickel and dime their customers? Then, explain to me having to pay for paints, or having to pay for a premium XJR-9, or, or, the original intent with the DLC?

Or, paying for racing suits. Or, having to pay an additional fee (if you hadn't already) for the FT-86 Concept II? Are you serious?

I think you actually proved my point there thank you very much. Polyphony actually did optimisations on Gt5 framerate and the engine is quite different from version 1. At a cost of other thinsg such as spectators. So you can optimise to a certain point until you cant go any further. That's why gt6 is pointless on the ps3

I don't think you understand what optimizations are: Going from CryENGINE 1 to CryENGINE 2 is an optimization, in that, the engine is no longer as resource-hungry as the original. Eliminating radicals because they impact performance heavily is not optimizing, it's prioritizing. And yet even with all of those "optimizations" the framerate still isn't constant, smoke build-up still produces rough, jagged edges alongside the car, and I'll just stop there.

GT5 is rendering more pixels at the same framerate as forza with inclusions of night and dynamic weather racing with added alpha affects and smoke. So all that ps3 strengths is not just idle.

Which impacts performance. Quite heavily.

I'm sorry, were you trying to prove something with that?

forza 3 outsold forza 2. forza 4 sold less than forza 3. Series has hit fatigue point. That's what happens when you put a car racing game on a 2 yearly cycle

And GT3 outsold GT5; does that mean Gran Turismo has also hit a fatigue point? See how sales values can be used against you in your own...pointless argument?

 

[1241Penguin]

Gt5 is just gt1 with pretty graphics? Really? As for the outdated gameplay, well i could say it's such a shame that an outdated series keeps selling millions and shaming their nearest competitor. But i think i will say it's ironic that the outdated series allows to race a car in a terrifying pitch black green hell while the exciting one doesn't. Very definitiion of outdated gameplay i am sure you would agree.

No one will know for sure what a game is like before they buy it. All the hype that was built up make it seem that GT5 was indeed going to be the best game ever. Many were disappointed with the game quite early, with the short career mode being one of the biggest gripes.

Tell me that having PS2 cars in a PS3 game is up to date. Or that a career mode just like GT1's is up to date.

It's a gran turismo game. Had an offline mode and an online mode. Decent number of cars which is more than some on the market. Sold shed loads too both digital and on Blu ray.

Alright then. Given that it's just another Gran Turismo game, I'm sure you'd be happy if PD released nothing but prologues? You know, 40 dollar pound demos that lasts about three minutes before you complete the game?

It's 2012. Not 2007. consoles have shelf lives. There is no more 'potential' left. There's only so much polyphony's engineers can do with the hardware at hand.

Read T-12's post.

Maybe you were when you called GT5 as nothing more than GT1 with prettier graphics. But i certainly am being serious

Quick question: have you played Forza? You always rave about how it's inferior to GT, even though you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. So, have you played Forza?

 

[Tornado]

Yes and that was what months ago? Times change. Had the priviledge of staying with my cousins and gaming on their xbox. It was forza 3 mind you. Had to try it. Wanted to see what the fuss was all about.

So you basically just admitted that you haven't played Forza 4, so your comments about the series getting increasingly boring and bland because of T10's release schedule have no merit.



Thanks.

 

[another_jakhole]

Good stuff.

Wow.

 

[Samus]

I don't know why I took him off ignore, all he ever spouts is utter nonsense and biased drivel. Back on it he goes.

 

[MoLiEG]

I have mixed feelings with this one...

I do want a new DLC (or updates, I don't care), but I don't believe it will transform GT5 to something completely extraordinary... I mean... I feel robbed because what they sold us almost 2 years ago is just a gigantic and flawed demo where they just messed up with a great portion of the concept of the franchise...

That being said... I also want them to start working on GT6... but then again... that same feeling prevails here... I feel robbed because now I'm going to pay again for a new game (and a new console, probably) just to play GT...

Not fair PD, not fair...

As far as I know, I'm not going to buy GT6 nor the PS4 until I collect enough info about it (Car list, track list, licenses, events, online, etc)... until then, I'll make my decision... they are not going to get my money that easily again...

I said it once, and I'll say it again... I don't like the direction the franchise is taking... seriously...

👎

 

[CorvetteConquer]

until then, I'll make my decision... they are not going to get my money that easily again...

I said it once, and I'll say it again... I don't like the direction the franchise is taking... seriously...

I liked these parts of your response because that, to me, is the underlying feeling of the GT community. I think after GT5, many buyers will be more cautious and await reviews, tracklists and carlists before simply purchasing GT6 because it's Gran Turismo.

My honest opinion is that PD was overwhelmed by this new internet/online era and was distracted by trying to make a great online experience (which it didn't really do).

At the core of GT5 lies a very stale game. It feels very much like an outdated, GT1 game, forced to compete in a 2010 world. Limited customization, crazy concept of "paint chips", silly music and kiddy animations, skimpy carlist, low-quality A-spec mode, etc.

DLC cannot fix this totally. GT6 is what we wait for. I am nervous, too.

 

[MoLiEG]

DLC cannot fix this totally. GT6 is what we wait for.

And it won't. They can add 100 premium cars, but with the game structure we have today... they will count for nothing...

Sad but true... GT6 is what we wait for... it's sad because this game had so much potencial... but again, this game was a missed opportunity in a lot of areas...

 

[Duck]

I'm glad to see there are still so much people enjoying GT5 and wanting more DLCs rather than just wait for GT6. Yamauchi-san knows that GT5 project missed the goal in some areas, first of all the A-spec side, and need to design GT6 accordingly. This, before starting the code development stage. About cars, it depends of how many people they hired in last year, as I expect a release with not less than 100 new premium cars, and they need a LOT of time as we know.
With this (wrong?) assumptions, I don't see possibilities for a 2013 release.

I planned to play GT5 at last until mid 2014, so I'll be in peace for a 2014 Christmas / early 2015 release

 

[RedBaron]

...this game had so much potencial... but again, this game was a missed opportunity in a lot of areas...

+1. I love racing but GT5 doesn't offer any. Just ridiculous rotating with 15 zombies around a track at best. When you want some competitive race, you have to start elaborating what car and what fiddling with it to do to make it as weak as possible, so eventually you could experience some racing. Usually with those weak opponents or with that 1 much faster winner. Not with all at one time. What a nuisance!!!

Ended up time trialing at Nordschleife, the same way as in GT4. No races, PD.

And in fact, I have just minimal hopes for better situation in GT6, to be honest. You are too distracted by beautiness to do a good game, too distracted by your team "almost family, I know" to hire right people for flawed parts of the game (offline and online game system, car sounds).

 

[TokoTurismo]

+10 MoLiEG 👍
I had to vote for GT6. I just don't see GT5 getting anywhere anymore. It's just outdated with outdated ideas now, so Kaz and PD are better off dropping it and working on GT6, where our feedback is useful.

I warn them though. If they don't do a single thing that were on the most voted and hot list, then they're gonna get what's coming to them in the future. Seriously they're really starting to lose their touch with the franchise. Why can't Kaz hire more people, or at least get Sony to make studios in other regions for them, but we know how much money that'll cost and knowing Sony..... O.o

I just want GT6 to be a game that used our ideas and help for Kaz and PD to improve in the future. I remember the EA and CM developers saying Kaz's game and him were boring and will never improve. With us helping Kaz and PD, we can prove them wrong for GT6.

Edited.

 

[Watt2159]

Like I said before, the final DLC should be huge, as a way to give a farewell to the game itself, and to hold us off until GT6, but the only thing I'm worried about with GT6, is the timeframe in which it will be developed, I'm not saying that it will take PD as long as it did for GT5 to finally be released, but it won't be made overnight either, and I think that DLC 4 should be the final one, and again, it shouldn't just be a couple of cars, and a track, I think it should be the magnitude of the first DLC but with more cars, and tracks, and then work on GT6 from there on out, I'd be satisfied with that.

 

[ImprezaAddict]

The thing I've been repeated most in university is that the customer is practically the most important aspect of a company. And PD is ignoring and disregarding their several million customers. Last month they told us it was delayed but we haven't even been updated on ANY matters concerning the next pack.

It's better to work on retaining current customers than finding new ones, so PD should wake up.

PD could learn so much from Turn10, mainly including cars people love. So DLC 4 should not be the last one and from now on they would really benefit from having 10 cars each pack and a track or two throughout the DLC life.

Why there has never been an E30 M3, I don't understand.

 

[ShortAznGuy]

It may be too soon for a GT6 but not for DLC. Orbis is probably going to be released in 2014 so I'd hope to see GT6 in 2013, holiday season of course, and DLC...well, now.