Does Anyone Else Consider These "Hybrid" Cars Cheating?

Do You Think using the "Hybrid" Cars is Considered Cheating?


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Another angle to the problem, I doubt Ferrari are going to be happy that their F1 car can now be silver.

anothereiger.jpg


It really is getting out of hand.
 
Ok.. Someone NEEDS to put that car on borrow for me. Pretty please with a cherry on top?

How cool would a black/matte black Ferrari 330 P4 be!
 
Editable content will always face this problem. After awhile we won't recognise the game if we stray into the wrong dungeon.
 
I know it's going to an extreme that is unlikely to happen but what would people do if Kaz leaves this to flourish and Ferrari turn round and say "ok then, you're not having our cars for the next game"? No more Ferrari, all because of supposedly harmless hacking. Like I say it's an extreme scenario not likely to occur but some people really aren't thinking of the bigger implications for this sort of thing.

Or it could just be car manufacturers in general not happy at how their various cars are now being represented in GT.
 
Well i wouldnt consider cheating for IRL Replica`s. But if it a race, please give them a boot. Because i honestly hate these people like these, who cheats in races with massive HP.


But Honestly, i make Realistic mods in GT5. and i dont plan in anyway to Abuse them. I dont even go online with them... Only Lounges.
 
What doesn't help the matter at all is that PD's replays have become progressively more useless with each game. In GT3, when hybrids were simple for anybody with a computer to make, the same program that created them could also read any replay file, and tell you precisely where each part came from. It meant any attempts to cheat were caught as soon as the replay was viewed. Sure, even with such a system in place now, we couldn't catch someone before the start of the race in GT5, but implementing a more thorough control system for the host in lobbies, where they can see more details of the cars, would help.

If PP can be edited completely arbitrarily, that's bad. I'm under the impression it still runs through a formula based on the parts equipped though (judging by the wildly fluctuating PP levels so far discovered on hybrids), so I really hope folks can't just enter in whatever number they like...

Well i wouldnt consider cheating for IRL Replica`s. But if it a race, please give them a boot. Because i honestly hate these people like these, who cheats in races with massive HP.

If you're doing something outside of what can be done within the normal confines of the game, it is still cheating, regardless of how "realistic" it is. As much as I live for replicas, even I recognize this.


But Honestly, i make Realistic mods in GT5. and i dont plan in anyway to Abuse them. I dont even go online with them... Only Lounges.

How many lounges are you entering while offline?
 
I agree with Simon, what if those who give the licenses of cars not happy with the hacking/hybrid cars everywhere online/offline, they gave the licenses surely no to be treated as such in the game right now, the cars would have certain terms and condition attached to any licenses given to PD, and I doubt one of them says "hacked car is okay"
 
...and I doubt one of them says "hacked car is okay"

To be fair, playing devil's advocate; I doubt you'd find "hacked cars are not okay" in even a single agreement with a manufacturer ;). Chances are this level of save tampering wasn't even thought of.
 
I know it's going to an extreme that is unlikely to happen but what would people do if Kaz leaves this to flourish and Ferrari turn round and say "ok then, you're not having our cars for the next game"? No more Ferrari, all because of supposedly harmless hacking. Like I say it's an extreme scenario not likely to occur but some people really aren't thinking of the bigger implications for this sort of thing.

Or it could just be car manufacturers in general not happy at how their various cars are now being represented in GT.

That's an important point, SimonK - but we don't really know the terms and conditions of the licencing agreements. Obviously, I would think, the manufacturer would be concerned with the kind of misrepresentation of their product that could hurt them.
But - OTH - is it hurting them? Or making the cars even more desirable?

Does this hurt Ferrari for me? Oh! Gawd, no.
As for the drivers who could actually own a Ferrari - doubt it'll hurt them either, since they'll be too busy driving the real thing.
 
Well i wouldnt consider cheating for IRL Replica`s. But if it a race, please give them a boot. Because i honestly hate these people like these, who cheats in races with massive HP.

But Honestly, i make Realistic mods in GT5. and i dont plan in anyway to Abuse them. I dont even go online with them... Only Lounges.

Playing devils advocate to illustrate how irrelevant this argument is. Imagine that I have found a way to hack cars to get Ferrari F1 downforce into any car without changing the PP, but don't worry, I don't even go online with them, only Lounges. That's how ridiculous this kind of argument sounds to me, and all the hackers seem to use it. For every guy like you who might actually mean what he says, there could be 5 or 10 or 50 guys who have no intention to not cheat in online racing or TT's.

The bigger picture is not what you or a small minority of players want, it's what I've been saying from the beginning of the hybrid stain on GT5. It's the integrity of the game, of the franchise, that is at stake here, if they don't get a handle on this soon.

That's an important point, SimonK - but we don't really know the terms and conditions of the licencing agreements. Obviously, I would think, the manufacturer would be concerned with the kind of misrepresentation of their product that could hurt them.
But - OTH - is it hurting them? Or making the cars even more desirable?

Does this hurt Ferrari for me? Oh! Gawd, no.
As for the drivers who could actually own a Ferrari - doubt it'll hurt them either, since they'll be too busy driving the real thing.

It's that word again, integrity. If any brand in the world represents integrity, it's Ferrari. The means test isn't whether it hurts them or not, it's whether PD is living up to the spirit of their agreement, which is, "this is how we want our cars represented in the game period". If you think the colour red is not explicitly stated or implied you are sadly mistaken. Whether Ferrari is harmed by having a blue F1 car in the game is irrelevant. It is red or it is not in the game, end of story.
 
BZZZZZZZ
Strawman argument EPIC FAIL.

  1. I could care less about 550pp EVos. :rolleyes:
  2. Any car with 3000hp should not be 550pp or less. :dopey:
  3. You can't restrict both HP & PP 👎
  4. This has nothing to do with hacked karts at all. :mad:
  5. Etc. etc. etc. that everyone's already told you - like that anything you've suggested just proves that it's gotten more difficult to control. :crazy:
Sorry, don't bother trying again, thanks for playing.
OK, but you didn't answer the question. You said that no regulations worked. It would be nice if you explained why you think that.

EDIT

Actually there is probably a better question to ask. Please tell me what the argument you referred to was, or what you think it was, because after all this I can't really risk making assumptions.
 
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@Simon Well, the same sort of thing happens in PC games right?

Correct but manufacturers would license their cars with that in mind and may not license certain cars they don't want to see tampered with. When they licensed cars for Gran Turismo they would have been doing it on the basis they would only be modified with the built in tools, as much as they decided upon. For the example of the Ferrari F1 car that was obviously that it can only be featured in the two official Ferrari colours and it couldn't be modified in any way. Not like when Williams licensed their F1 car to iRacing knowing (and allowing) it to be repainted.
 
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What doesn't help the matter at all is that PD's replays have become progressively more useless with each game. In GT3, when hybrids were simple for anybody with a computer to make, the same program that created them could also read any replay file, and tell you precisely where each part came from. It meant any attempts to cheat were caught as soon as the replay was viewed. Sure, even with such a system in place now, we couldn't catch someone before the start of the race in GT5, but implementing a more thorough control system for the host in lobbies, where they can see more details of the cars, would help.

👍 +1
Yes, it helps a lot.
I know that for example, even in organized races I host or steward here on GTP, I know that the fact that just making it clear that there are stewards who MIGHT review the race and see what you were doing - probably deters 99% of would-be rule infractions that people might otherwise be tempted to sneak in.
So having a replay system that could tell you all sorts of things, would surely be a deterrent for a lot of people who only like to cheat when they figure they probably won't get caught most of the time.

The bigger picture is not what you or a small minority of players want, it's what I've been saying from the beginning of the hybrid stain on GT5. It's the integrity of the game, of the franchise, that is at stake here, if they don't get a handle on this soon.

👍 +1

I don't necessarily hold it against individual people who have these hacked cars who've never used them to cheat per se, in racing with other people.
I do understand why some are so intrigued with them, outside of any desire to defraud their fellows in online racing.

But yeah, there is a bigger picture here.

That said, I would be cool if they just made it impossible to get on PSN with a hacked car on the game save or however that works.
I don't care if someone wants to be offline and fool around with the code, as that makes no difference in my life.
I realize that's just MY opinion. But my main concern is the integrity of the online racing.

I have to say, I'm now wondering... should I be suspicious of new sign-ups to GTPlanet joining my organized races? Should I be wondering if someone is going to be so foolish and idiotic to somehow get a hacked version of a German Supermini at 98hp to beat other drivers who are at 78hp... because I can only set the lounge regulations to 98hp. :rolleyes:
I think that's unlikely that someone would be so silly as to go through that much trouble to cheat at a low hp race. But then people have been known to cheat in much more stupid ways. :crazy:


@ Exorcet: Sorry. You're too illogical & all over the map to have a sensible discussion with.
Go find someone else who wants to listen to your double-talk, red herrings, and nonsense.
Conversation over.
 
Correct but manufacturers would license their cars with that in mind and may not license certain cars they don't want to see tampered with. When they licensed cars for Gran Turismo they would have been doing it on the basis they would only be modified with the built in tools, as much as they decided upon. For the example of the Ferrari F1 car that was obviously that it can only be featured in the two official Ferrari colours and it couldn't be modified in any way. Not like when Williams licensed their F1 car to iRacing knowing (and allowing) it to be repainted.

To be honest they might have thought that this could happen in some form. It's not new, not even on consoles. I don't know how upset they are or aren't exactly, but I doubt it will lead to serious consequences. Doesn't change things much on PD's end though.

@ Exorcet: Sorry. You're too illogical & all over the map to have a sensible discussion with.
Go find someone else who wants to listen to your double-talk, red herrings, and nonsense.
Conversation over.

I'm sorry, but no.

No matter how clear I tried to make myself it appears you just won't listen. I don't know why.

If you decide to calm down a bit and want to try again, it's fine by me. I'm genuinely interested in dealing with this problem, but if people are too paranoid to even hold a conversion then I guess things won't get anywhere.
 
...I'm sorry, but no.

No matter how clear I tried to make myself it appears you just won't listen. I don't know why.

If you decide to calm down a bit and want to try again, it's fine by me. I'm genuinely interested in dealing with this problem, but if people are too paranoid to even hold a conversion then I guess things won't get anywhere.

You are making yourself clear, that's not the problem. The problem is that people are pointing various flaws in your logic, probably due to the fact that you don't play the game and we all do, and you aren't listening or are just fluffing off their responses. The number of things that need to be checked now is so big and cumbersome, the idea of running an open lobby with random participants is just too cumbersome and time consuming for most hosts. And some things may not be able to be checked as stated above. You seem to think you just press a couple of buttons and everything and everyone is checked and you can go back to qualifying for the race. That isn't the case, I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
 
You are making yourself clear, that's not the problem. The problem is that people are pointing various flaws in your logic, probably due to the fact that you don't play the game and we all do
Well one correction there, I've played the game up until November, so it's not as if anyone I'm arguing with is more familiar with the game than me.

About the only thing you could bring up would be that I wouldn't know exactly how prevalent modded cars are online, but no one really brought that up. The fact is, the game as far as settings go is the same as it was in November, and the methods I'm describing are things that anyone would be familiar with if they tried hosting more than basic lobbies as I have.

And as far as being clear, as soon as watermelon mentioned the strawman argument I new something was being lost in translation. I was suspicious before, but that confirmed. I have no idea what he was talking about. I was asking a question not making an argument. Apparently I have some ulterior motive I'm not aware of.

The number of things that need to be checked now is so big and cumbersome,
I'd know more than most. As I've said repeatedly, the options PD has given us are limited and it takes a lot of work to regulate a very specific room. That's spilled over from specific rooms to your average online lobby. Either way the host shouldn't have to deal with it. But it is what they need to do if they want to host at this point in time.

I'll say it again, I'm not here to justify the use of modded cars and I'm not telling anyone to just get used to it. My goal was outline how we can deal with them until PD fixes the issue. I know we may not agree over how damaged online is, but I certainly wouldn't expect people to get mad because someone else it trying to mitigate the problem.

You seem to think you just press a couple of buttons and everything and everyone is checked and you can go back to qualifying for the race. That isn't the case, I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

It takes a bit of work, but the point was lobby rules have not been completely shattered. If you want to race online now, this is what you have to do until PD steps in. It's a temporary solution.

As for things that can't be checked, whenever I ask no one answers. A small 10-20 hp bump or something like that is hard to detect but nearly harmless. SuperSoft tires don't seem to do much, and they might be knocked out by tire restrictions. No one has answered my question pertaining to chassis swaps. Do they change PP or not? I'd expect that downforce does at the very least.
 
This thread may be redundant...

Just received a call from a friend, he hacked one of his cars after reading how to do it on the net somewhere, he can no longer sign into the PD servers, PSN is ok but not GT5. He has another account that does not have any hacked cars that is fine. Perhaps it's been patched in some way at the server end, I can see there being a lot of "annoyed" people soon !!!

I'll see if he will give me the error code and I will edit it in here...
 
Someone said the PP and weight can be edited, maybe that's why we see Evo with 3000HP+ and only 550PP, I don't think racing super soft can be restricted, check the drag forum, they encountered a civic with racing super soft in a drag race, if they have racing soft restriction, how can the civic enter ?I guess putting tire restriction when someone has hacked tire would be pointless if the driver deliberately enter car into the track just as the race started.

PSN will be in maintenance from 7 AM to 8 PM PST March 4.
 
imo its out of control.... Online Servers are dead. no fun anymore. Theres like barely any legit race rooms without hacked cars. and the community level has dropped.

I guess i cant sign out.... since psn is under maintence. :\ back to testing a 458 stock.

This thread may be redundant...

Just received a call from a friend, he hacked one of his cars after reading how to do it on the net somewhere, he can no longer sign into the PD servers, PSN is ok but not GT5. He has another account that does not have any hacked cars that is fine. Perhaps it's been patched in some way at the server end, I can see there being a lot of "annoyed" people soon !!!

I'll see if he will give me the error code and I will edit it in here...

i modded couple of cars im fine.
 
Explains?

Well, one of my other PSN friend have been unable to connect to PD servers since last night, he can sign in to PSN just fine, but not GT5. He was starting to collect those hybrids, he said he has 2 or 3 in his garage, he did use them online a couple of times.

I am in the Deadnuts lounge ( online ) now, tuning + testing cars since an hour ago :)
 
Well, one of my other PSN friend have been unable to connect to PD servers since last night, he can sign in to PSN just fine, but not GT5. He was starting to collect those hybrids, he said he has 2 or 3 in his garage, he did use them online a couple of times.

Well i dont go online with mine... Prob PD servers are down?.... it happened to me once. i just restarted the game. and i connected to servers.

If you got a error. then just restart game should be fine.
 
As for things that can't be checked, whenever I ask no one answers. A small 10-20 hp bump or something like that is hard to detect but nearly harmless. SuperSoft tires don't seem to do much, and they might be knocked out by tire restrictions. No one has answered my question pertaining to chassis swaps. Do they change PP or not? I'd expect that downforce does at the very least.

The guys I often race with that are close to me on the track are separated by tenths or less. Give me a 20 hp advantage and they will never, ever beat me, nor I them unless one of us crashes. Give me 40 hp and swap my drivetrain to MR from FR in some cars and I will be gone like the wind, only to be seen again on the replay. Give me an NSX chassis and 520 hp and I will go undefeated the rest of my GT5 career at 550PP.

Maybe in a random lobby full of average drivers 10-20 hp has no meaning. In really competitive lobbies, any tiny advantage can make an above average driver pretty much unbeatable.

That's the part you don't get. The game has been played for 2+ years and we've tuned every last tenth out of available cars within the confines of the game to date. Any small advantage is a huge advantage at this point. Every small advantage upsets the balance and integrity of the game.
 
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Well i dont go online with mine... Prob PD servers are down?.... it happened to me once. i just restarted the game. and i connected to servers.

If you got a error. then just restart game should be fine.

He did restart numerous times, he said it still happen until today. Not sure if he can get online on GT5 after maintenance.
 
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