Driveclub

[bloodsugar6]

Maybe you should actually try it before making a statement like that? Doesn't take a lot of playing to realise that double penalties are neither fun nor fair. And that's exactly what the Hardcore penalties amount to.

I think the logic of the new penalty in HC mode is pretty easy to understand.With the need to brake earlier and therefore lose time in corners,without the new harsher slowdown the cheaters would have just ploughed on at full belt,lost a much smaller chunk of time hitting the side and thus exploit the system?

 

[Jawehawk]

Maybe you should actually not assume that I haven't tried it.

I think it's fair to say that anyone who genuinley belives that double penalties are good game design, don't know what the hell they're taking about.

But allow me to give you further examples to demonstrate just how BS this system is. First up, we have Takagi Hills. A track that features several high speed turns that are close together. In this case, I was driving a Lotus Exige for the first time on Hardcore mode, and was trying to catch up to first place. On several laps, I'd loss the rear during the fast turns in the latter half of the track, and hit the barrier on the far side of the turn. Doing so is much slower than actually nailing the turn, as you'll at best be slowed down from 160-ish km/h to 110-120 km/h, and quite possibly loss control of the car. The penalty system, however, gives you a double penalty, resulting in not being able to accelerate for what feels like up to 5 seconds. It's not fair, nor is it called for.

Moving on to Kobago, a tight and twisty track that I drove in a Lamborghini Gallardo, which sadly doesn't seem to produce any downforce with that massive rear wing it has. Add rain into the mix, and it's extremely easy to accidently hit the far side of the turns with the tail of the car in the latter half of the track, losing you speed and time. But again, the HC penalty system gives you a double penalty, and prevents you from accelerating for what feels like up to 5 seconds. I lost count on how many times this happened to me, as I once again was trying to catch up to 1st. At times, I'd be too bold, and turn into corners too fast, resulting in me hitting the inside of the turn. And guess what, I get yet another double penalty. Because clearly, hitting the inside of a turn is so beneficial to my time...

So what is the point? In an effort to prevent people from going full speed into turns, Evolution manages to penalies every single driver whenever they hit a wall. And given that Hardcore mode is quite different, hitting walls is likely to be a thing until you've mastered the mode. In none of the cases I stated, did I stand to make any gains in time or speed, yet the game felt the need to penalise me. It's frustrating, and it's unecessary. It hurts legite players every bit as much, if not more, than people who cheat. And honestly, how many of the people who still play Driveclub on a regular basis, even bother with cheating?

 

[Delicious]

So your faster in hardcore mode! I dont understand the logic that we'd be slower with assists turned off which is claimed by Rushy and mos people that have turned assists off.

This

I can understand what he means.There are some cars that in normal mode have liftoff oversteer but in hardcore mode I can feel the car better and control the problem,so although overall I'm slower in HC mode,the car is easier to control.

 

[Brend]

I like Hardcore mode's wall penalty thing, almost like a throwback to Lakeside on SEGA Rally 1995 where you'd get with a similar penalty for hitting the sides.

 

[Denur]

@Jawehawk You're obviously very bothered by the hardcore penalty system. Evolution Studios appreciate user feedback, so why don't you send your concerns to Rushy?

 

[ForceMotion]

I tried the Skyline in the RPM tour and wow i love its cornering, its so smooth and feels perfect good job ES, and the turbo and bov sounds really nice! Hardcore mode was really needed in this game makes the drifting so much better, only thing they should change is it to be able to change it in a race. And the penalties could be a little shorter tbh.

 

[Jawehawk]

@Jawehawk You're obviously very bothered by the hardcore penalty system. Evolution Studios appreciate user feedback, so why don't you send your concerns to Rushy?

Because 140 characters is far too little to actually make a case for anything? Twitter is awful as a means of actual 2 way communication.

 

[Denur]

Because 140 characters is far too little to actually make a case for anything? Twitter is awful as a means of actual 2 way communication.

Driveclub is on Facebook. You can leave a more elaborate comment there.

 

[PzR Slim]

I think it's fair to say that anyone who genuinley belives that double penalties are good game design, don't know what the hell they're taking about.

But allow me to give you further examples to demonstrate just how BS this system is. First up, we have Takagi Hills. A track that features several high speed turns that are close together. In this case, I was driving a Lotus Exige for the first time on Hardcore mode, and was trying to catch up to first place. On several laps, I'd loss the rear during the fast turns in the latter half of the track, and hit the barrier on the far side of the turn. Doing so is much slower than actually nailing the turn, as you'll at best be slowed down from 160-ish km/h to 110-120 km/h, and quite possibly loss control of the car. The penalty system, however, gives you a double penalty, resulting in not being able to accelerate for what feels like up to 5 seconds. It's not fair, nor is it called for.

Moving on to Kobago, a tight and twisty track that I drove in a Lamborghini Gallardo, which sadly doesn't seem to produce any downforce with that massive rear wing it has. Add rain into the mix, and it's extremely easy to accidently hit the far side of the turns with the tail of the car in the latter half of the track, losing you speed and time. But again, the HC penalty system gives you a double penalty, and prevents you from accelerating for what feels like up to 5 seconds. I lost count on how many times this happened to me, as I once again was trying to catch up to 1st. At times, I'd be too bold, and turn into corners too fast, resulting in me hitting the inside of the turn. And guess what, I get yet another double penalty. Because clearly, hitting the inside of a turn is so beneficial to my time...

So what is the point? In an effort to prevent people from going full speed into turns, Evolution manages to penalies every single driver whenever they hit a wall. And given that Hardcore mode is quite different, hitting walls is likely to be a thing until you've mastered the mode. In none of the cases I stated, did I stand to make any gains in time or speed, yet the game felt the need to penalise me. It's frustrating, and it's unecessary. It hurts legite players every bit as much, if not more, than people who cheat. And honestly, how many of the people who still play Driveclub on a regular basis, even bother with cheating?

Don't hit the wall, you don't lose time and don't get a penalty

 

[nick98]

Don't hit the wall, you don't lose time and don't get a penalty

Easier said than done.

 

[PzR Slim]

Easier said than done.

lol! Hence the name....hardcore mode! Seems illogical to me for anyone playing a racing game to moan that the game is unfair when you hit the wall. You're not supposed to hit the wall when you race so deserve everything you get.

 

[jp_footy]

Because 140 characters is far too little to actually make a case for anything? Twitter is awful as a means of actual 2 way communication.

Driveclub is on Facebook. You can leave a more elaborate comment there.

You can also PM him:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/members/rushy33.272207/

 

[Jawehawk]

Don't hit the wall, you don't lose time and don't get a penalty

It goes without saying that this is already a goal of any proper Driveclub player. Sometimes you mess up, and in those cases, the fact that you lose time and speed by hitting the barriers, is punishment enough. there's no logic in further punishment.

 

[wdreamsmaycome]

It goes without saying that this is already a goal of any proper Driveclub player. Sometimes you mess up, and in those cases, the fact that you lose time and speed by hitting the barriers, is punishment enough. there's no logic in further punishment.

there is a logic because in many cases hitting the wall is still faster than driving properly if you hit it "just right", this said I realize that this way of penalizing is annoying as a user because it takes you out of the "zone" and is frustrating, I personally would have simply done a lap time invalidation (you hit anything or you go off, no time for you, same as the various "race a clean lap" challenges) but that would not work in multiplayer of course

I just wish they had hardcore leaderboards though!

 

[Jawehawk]

there is a logic because in many cases hitting the wall is still faster than driving properly if you hit it "just right", this said I realize that this way of penalizing is annoying as a user because it takes you out of the "zone" and is frustrating, I personally would have simply done a lap time invalidation (you hit anything or you go off, no time for you, same as the various "race a clean lap" challenges) but that would not work in multiplayer of course

I just wish they had hardcore leaderboards though!

Punishing everyone in an effort to punish what I suspect is a minority, is not good game design. I can't recall ever seeing anyone exploiting walls in time trial challenges, and as for single player races, while I don't condone cheating or exlpoiting, I don't much care what others do. Buttom line is that proper drivers who do not cheat or abuse exploits, should not be punished just because some do.

 

[PzR Slim]

If your hitting the wall you're not doing it right

If your so into the game surely you want a game that challenges you enough that if you hit the wall you don't deserve to have a chance of competing. If the game was punishing you for not making a mistake I would fully understand but at the moment your saying, 'the game is punishing me too much for not being very good at it. '

 

[Jawehawk]

If your hitting the wall you're not doing it right

If your so into the game surely you want a game that challenges you enough that if you hit the wall you don't deserve to have a chance of competing. If the game was punishing you for not making a mistake I would fully understand but at the moment your saying, 'the game is punishing me too much for not being very good at it. '

It does. As I said originally, this penalty system will also hit you on occasions where the AI rams you into a wall, or just rams you in general. And as I've also already illustrated, hitting the walls is already slowing you down, hence there is no need for the double penalty. If you want to include an actual comprehensive damage system that properly and realistically pusnihes you for messing up, then I'm all for it. But arbitrary timed penalties don't make it more challenging as such, they simply add frustration into the mix, as you sit and wait for the speed limiter to disappear.

It's like having a penalty system in a shooter that makes you not able to fire your gun if you miss a shot. 'Cause hey, it just makes it more challenging, and you really ought to hit with every bullet you fire.

 

[PzR Slim]

It does. As I said originally, this penalty system will also hit you on occasions where the AI rams you into a wall, or just rams you in general. And as I've also already illustrated, hitting the walls is already slowing you down, hence there is no need for the double penalty. If you want to include an actual comprehensive damage system that properly and realistically pusnihes you for messing up, then I'm all for it. But arbitrary timed penalties don't make it more challenging as such, they simply add frustration into the mix, as you sit and wait for the speed limiter to disappear.

It's like having a penalty system in a shooter that makes you not able to fire your gun if you miss a shot. 'Cause hey, it just makes it more challenging, and you really ought to hit with every bullet you fire.

Well if it would make you happier that the extra penalty was more realistic just pretend every time you hit a wall that the car stalls and it takes you that long to get the engine fired again, problem solved

 

[unit-one]

Well if it would make you happier that the extra penalty was more realistic just pretend every time you hit a wall that the car stalls and it takes you that long to get the engine fired again, problem solved

I always thought that that was the idea behind this.

 

[doblocruiser]

That GTR R34 drives and sounds amazing It even comes in its famous midnight purple color

The sound of that car is very very well done

 

[CHEN255]

That GTR R34 drives and sounds amazing It even comes in its famous midnight purple color

The sound of that car is very very well done

Does it allow custom liveries?

 

[Pearl Jam]

so I've maxed out the tour stars and it's now saying 1080/1085 for the next elite level ?? The 5 stars needed I'm hoping against hope is gonna in the bike levels ?? Or do I just wait until the No Limits pack drops ? If it's the bikes then 🤬 Evo for forcing something i dislike with a passion onto me in order to continue progression...unless I'm being a complete goofball and there is another way

 

[doblocruiser]

Does it allow custom liveries?

Sorry man, I don't know

 

[Brend]

There's nothing more arrogant or pompous than someone coming into a thread and telling someone they aren't driving correctly. Honestly @PzR Slim , you have no right to judge someone on their driving skills based on them saying they dont appreciate how strict Hardcore mode is.

Everyone deserves an opinion, regardless of your attempt to belittle them for no reason whatsoever.

 

[PzR Slim]

There's nothing more arrogant or pompous than someone coming into a thread and telling someone they aren't driving correctly. Honestly @PzR Slim , you have no right to judge someone on their driving skills based on them saying they dont appreciate how strict Hardcore mode is.

Everyone deserves an opinion, regardless of your attempt to belittle them for no reason whatsoever.

We all crash in racing games, most of us are just prepared to suffer the consequences and not blame the game

And my comments about 'not doing it right' were more aimed at the fact that Jawehawk expected to still compete after crashing rather than any dig at Jawehawks driving skills.

 

[Dan]

Can someone join my club? I want to get better rewards in SP. Send me a friend request and I'll add you.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Should we not be faster with assists turned off?


So guys does the game feel like PGR now with Hardcore mode and Edinburgh?

So your faster in hardcore mode! I dont understand the logic that we'd be slower with assists turned off which is claimed by Rushy and mos peple that have turned assists off.

No, because the standard handling model has the brakes set-up to be far too effective so you gain significant time which you cannot recoup. Rushy said you will be slower.

Yeah, the standard mode isn't like a sim/simcade where the only assists are real life assists like ABS and TC, it's got massively overpowered brakes and tyre grip. Hardcore mode takes away the excessive tyre grip and braking power, as well as removing the TC and stability control. As far as I can tell, you can't lock brakes in hardcore mode, so ABS must still be active.

Because of the adjusted tyre grip and brake strength, you feel the weight of the car much more, braking distances are huge compared to normal mode, and cars will understeer or oversteer much more realistically. All of this adds up to make you significantly slower than the normal mode, in which you can jam on the brakes at the last minute and throw the car into corners.

The hardcore mode actually emphasises what I've been saying about DC's physics all along, that it feels like it's rooted in realism with the car weight and suspension movement, but with hugely overpowered tyre grip and brake power. With hardcore mode on, the physics really shine. They don't compare to modern hardcore sims obviously, but it would be more realistic than say GT4's physics, so 10 or more years ago it would have been considered a sim on console. Pretty good for an arcade game.

Hardcore mode do not seem to affect bike handling at all

No, Rushy said before the update came out that it wouldn't be applied to bikes yet. I'd expect it to be added to bikes in the not too distant future.

In hardcore mode when you crash, do the cars get stuck at a slow speed on purpose right after?

When Rushy was asked about the increased/silent penalties in hardcore mode.

Paul Rustchynsky‏@Rushy33
@mctwatta Intentional, we've always had 'silent' penalties, but they had to amped up in hardcore to stop exploits.

Uhh, what exploits?

I've always noticed those penalties in normal mode. The faster you slam into a wall, the longer the game will prevent you using the throttle, and it's to stop people wall riding and using the walls to bounce them around tight corners instead of braking, which would be faster without the penalties thanks to the lack of damage.

In hardcore mode, the brake strength is much more realistic, so braking distances are way bigger, so the penalties from normal mode would be insufficient to prevent people gaining time from not braking and just bouncing off the walls. This is why those penalties have been made longer, and it's still dependent on how fast and hard you plow into a wall.

It would be a massive exploit for leaderboards and such if these penalties weren't in the game. Everyone on the leaderboards would be wall riding and bouncing off the walls in hairpins to get the fastest times, which would completely ruin time trial mode.

I honestly can't see how this is a bad thing... I mean, if you're getting these penalties, you must be seriously plowing into the walls, so it's your own fault. It's not difficult to avoid them, you just have to drive to the car's capabilities and not treat the game like NFS. Without them the game would be a wallride fest.

 

[thomZ]

@Jawehawk

Not to be mean or something, but each time I see your comments it's for a bad purpose.

A few pages back, you were arguing that the Audi RS6 was a ****** piece of engineering.
Now you don't like the Hardcore mode because it has though penalties.
Also, Twitter is **** because 140 char is not enough to complain...

Man, go watch cat videos or drink a glass of hot milk with cookies I don't know, but you need to relax.

Keeping in mind that IRL hitting a wall means -> END OF THE RACE, I think a 2 seconds penalty per wall hitted is quite fair for a "HARDCORE MODE".

 

[Mike_grpA]

Keeping in mind that IRL hitting a wall means -> END OF THE RACE, I think a 2 seconds penalty per wall hitted is quite fair for a "HARDCORE MODE".

This is what I was thinking. If Evolution added realistic damage to the game (obviously not gonna happen, but bear with me), running into a wall hard enough to trigger one of these penalties would completely ruin your car, which would mean a race restart. As it is, without the damage, they need a way to prevent people wall riding and bouncing off walls from gaining an advantage from it. If you don't have mechanical damage in the game, then penalties are the only way to do this.

I find it really odd that people would complain about being penalised for poor driving. It's the way it should be. Learn to drive cleaner and you never get penalties. I'd hate to race people online who don't like being penalised for ramming into things lol.

I can't wait for the DLC to come out here, that new track looks very cool! I really like the hardcore mode, but I won't be using it in the tour. I did a p2p time trial with the 370Z in normal mode and then hardcore mode, to compare how it felt, and not only did it feel more realistic, but I was something like 10 seconds slower in hardcore mode. Considering the tour races are made for the normal mode, I reckon it'd be impossible to do some the time trials in hardcore mode.

I'll say this though: I had no desire to just set up single races before, I'd just do the tour events and leave it at that. But now, I'll do the tour events as usual, but then I'll turn on hardcore mode and set up some single events, because the game is bloody fun in hardcore!

 

[Parker]

@JawehawkMan, go watch cat videos or drink a glass of hot milk with cookies I don't know, but you need to relax.

Hot milk? I think a glass of cold milk with some hot cookies would be a little better.