Eminem: As bad as 50 cent

[Jay]

Stewie's thoughts on 50 cent,

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=830030790071307024&q=eminem

Sorry this doesn't add much to your discussions, thought I might add some humour.

 

[Dave A]

Hahaha, thats great.

 

[Young_Warrior]

And I don't believe someone who writes lyrics "in such a way that it has a nice flow fits into each bar without overlapping and then making sense" is a musician. Do you play any instruments Young_Warrior? Do you know how much time it takes to really become good at an instrument, and be able to write your own songs?

I used to be an MC. Write own lyrics and attempted to produce songs in studios. It was hard I wasnt good at it so I quit. I used to play the keyboard and guitar however.

Dont you understand the concept of and 8 bar and a 16 barand then a 32?

You have to write a lyric to fit into either a 8 bar 16 etc.
It has to flow and not be abrupt to sound good.Then it also has to rhyme and you have to use words with certain amount of syllables to achieve that. Then all in the end when you have manipulated the words all day it has to make sense. And then speed comes into play aswell. Are you able to say each line smoothly into each bar?Or is the song to slow that it has lost its flow and therefore effect. And then if your writing lyrics to amuse it has to be fast and witty. Or maybe you want to be political and therefore you apply less of a flow to your lyrics to make it stand out more. Its not as simple as you guys would like to think.

 

[Saleen Man]

I used to be an MC. Write own lyrics and attempted to produce songs in studios. It was hard I wasnt good at it so I quit. I used to play the keyboard and guitar however.

Dont you understand the concept of and 8 bar and a 16 barand then a 32?

You have to write a lyric to fit into either a 8 bar 16 etc.
It has to flow and not be abrupt to sound good.Then it also has to rhyme and you have to use words with certain amount of syllables to achieve that. Then all in the end when you have manipulated the words all day it has to make sense. And then speed comes into play aswell. Are you able to say each line smoothly into each bar?Or is the song to slow that it has lost its flow and therefore effect. And then if your writing lyrics to amuse it has to be fast and witty. Or maybe you want to be political and therefore you apply less of a flow to your lyrics to make it stand out more. Its not as simple as you guys would like to think.

I am very familiar with music, thank you. Everything you just said about lyrics, I could say the same thing about a guitar riff. I will never believe that it's harder to rap than it is to play an instrument.

 

[Dave A]

But they rarely make sense, look at the vid Viper posted, it shows a prime example of 50 cent not making much sense. It may not be as simple as some people think, but being good at it doesn't suddenly make you a genius.

Which has me wondering, once more. Just what are you calling him a genius for, his lyrics, his marketing, the ammount of people that know him, what? It's changed about 5 times in the thread aleady.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Geniuses are proven by evidence of their ability. There's no real evidence here that proves him to be a genius. Marketing yourself does not prove one to be a genius. It proves that you are indeed clever in that field, but not a genius. If he produced his own music, wrote every sample, and his work was technical, creative and skilled, this thread and your argument would be much more credible. Rather, 50 Cent is somebody who hands lyrics to people like Dr. Dre to dub over the top of, commonly, musical scores written by other people in the past. If not that, it's still that producer's music, not his. I'll bet he has fashion-advisers. He hands his image to other marketing people to sell him. I highly doubt that he does all of his own advertising without the assistance and/or control of anyone else, that he comes up with the ideas for all of his merchandise, and that he markets most aspects of his career. Sure, he has input, but not control or complete say.

He's popular and marketable. Don't confuse that with genius.

Lets look at 50 cents record label. He commands around 15 artists in a time span of what like nearly 3 years. That phenomanal. As for Dr.Dre he doesnt take other peoples music the man does his from scratch and actually the beats are made first and then 50 cent raps over ontop of them. As for fashion advisers which person in the public eye doesnt have one yet what 50 cent wears is pretty much what hes done before he was famous. As for marketing theyre mostly his idead and he sends people out to get them done. Bill gates does that and that mans a genius too. 50 cent is like the bill gates of hip hop.

 

[Dave A]

50 cent is nothing like the Bill gates of hip hop, 50 cent is just another rapper to people who don't like him, people who don't like Bill Gates still realise he's the most successful business man ever, ontop of that, BIll Gates isn't in the publics eye half as much as 50 cent, yet everyone still knows him. If 50 cent was like BIll Gates he'd be all over every genre around monopolising ever marketable segmet in the industry, then he'd be heading into other non-music related markets to incerase his by then empire and monopolise other markets too. 50 cent is nothing like that, in 10 years time he'll be a has been, a nobody and I doubt people will mention him much at all.

 

[Young_Warrior]

But they rarely make sense, look at the vid Viper posted, it shows a prime example of 50 cent not making much sense. It may not be as simple as some people think, but being good at it doesn't suddenly make you a genius.

Which has me wondering, once more. Just what are you calling him a genius for, his lyrics, his marketing, the ammount of people that know him, what? It's changed about 5 times in the thread aleady.

Marketinggggggggggggggggggggggggggg.
The mans a buisness man. A pure genius buisness man.

As for what that baby said they edited the lyrics. What he really says is which also makes sense if you now a little something about african americans and the whole "its your birthday" saying then this makes perfect sense.

Go, go, go, go
Go, go, go shorty
It's your birthday
We gon' party like it's yo birthday
We gon' sip Bacardi like it's yo birthday
'Cause you know we don't give a ****
It's not your birthday!

Dont evaluate this lyrics however as it is a 100% club tune and the purpose of it was to make people dance.

 

[Saleen Man]

I am failing to see the genius of his plan. Get a big name to produce for you. Make mainstream music that you know will become popular. That is a genius? How much of his marketing plan do you think is actually him? Or is it just all of his advisors saying "here's how to make more money", and him saying OK?

How smart can he possibly be, he got shot 9 times.

 

[Dave A]

The mans not a genius because he's made a lot of money, that put's a **** load of people in the category of genius who clearly arn't. He'd be nothing without Dr Dre, your words, and very true words. If he was a genius he'd be everything without Dr Dre. 50 cent is your typical big headded rapper thats been made popular because of somthing that happened to him out of his control.

 

[Young_Warrior]

50 cent is nothing like the Bill gates of hip hop, 50 cent is just another rapper to people who don't like him, people who don't like Bill Gates still realise he's the most successful business man ever, ontop of that, BIll Gates isn't in the publics eye half as much as 50 cent, yet everyone still knows him. If 50 cent was like BIll Gates he'd be all over every genre around monopolising ever marketable segmet in the industry, then he'd be heading into other non-music related markets to incerase his by then empire and monopolise other markets too. 50 cent is nothing like that, in 10 years time he'll be a has been, a nobody and I doubt people will mention him much at all.

Like politicians said about tupac?

Bill gates isnt in the public eye because hes not a celebrity
Everyone knows him because every knows and uses microsoft products. As for him monopolizing ever market in the industry there are plenty of technological markets that micro soft hasnt gotten into or or are leading.

50 cent is a genius buisness man in his own right. Not only does he make money off all the artists he commands stars in movies has his own shoes and clothing label hes also keeps signing major artists from other major rival record labels such as roccafella and Sean diddys combs record label badboy.

Hes basically going around other people record companies and picking people he wants to represent him as if he was in a candy shop. The amount of negortions that need to take place to pull off such a stunt is huge. You guys can appreciate how hard it is to swoon or even just buy a player from another team yet you cant appreciate this? I cant think of any other man in music that has done this other than maybe motown. 50 cent is leading up to having a monopoly onthe entire hip hop scene.

 

[Dave A]

That means he's got money, not he's a genius. Hand me a couple of hundered million and I'll start owning big names and picking whoever I want to to represent me.

 

[Young_Warrior]

I am failing to see the genius of his plan. Get a big name to produce for you. Make mainstream music that you know will become popular. That is a genius? How much of his marketing plan do you think is actually him? Or is it just all of his advisors saying "here's how to make more money", and him saying OK?

How smart can he possibly be, he got shot 9 times.

I can go walk down the road and get run over by a car how smart can I be. Well if its so easy to make money if you have the right backing why hasnt the UK Garage scene taken off? It was hugely popular before record labels came in and swooped up the underground stars yet most people dont even know what UK Garage is. Its not that simple.

 

[Young_Warrior]

That means he's got money, not he's a genius. Hand me a couple of hundered million and I'll start owning big names and picking whoever I want to to represent me.

They pay him to an extent.

Well if you make a couple hundred mill from nothing then that makes you a genius.

 

[Dave A]

Yes, they create product, the product gets sold and 50 cent takes a cut of the profits. Sure, genius . You still need the money to start off with though, without the cas your not getting anyone to represent you, your not going to be able market anyone, or produce anything.

 

[Dave A]

Well if you make a couple hundred mill from nothing then that makes you a genius.

No, no, no no, no.

If I buy a winning lottery ticket 5 times, I'm lucky, not a genius. If you get shot and become popular in the media becuse of that, your popularity is a product of an unfortunate event that wasn't your doing. The popularity that got him gave him another shot (not pun intended) and he was marketed, that is a lucky outcome coming from an unfortunate event that the media highlighted. If 50 cent got shot and no-one heared about it, he'd still be a nobody. You don't plan on that happening unless your psychotic, things fell into place for him on the grander scale, sure he may be smart but he's not a genius.

 

[Lee]

This "debate" is still going on!?

 

[Young_Warrior]

Yes, they create product, the product gets sold and 50 cent takes a cut of the profits. Sure, genius . You still need the money to start off with though, without the cas your not getting anyone to represent you, your not going to be able market anyone, or produce anything.

Unless your a drug dealer.

Random Fact. 50 cent makes more money off the games album than the game himself.

50 cents lyrics it self show buisness man like thinking. Its not all black and white you guys need to read between the lines but you cant because you dont listen to the music and dont have full knowledge.

Anyone here ever read bokes like the old man and the sea with santiago manolin and the fish? Well that book is all about a old man catching a big fish. Or thats what the avergae person will think if you dont anaylze it and read between the lines. The old man had a strange relationship with the fish one of love etc which told us alot about his character.

Its the same for alot of 50 cents lyrics.

Everything that happened to us, was part of God's plan
So at night when I talk him, I got my gun in my hand
Don't think I'm crazy, cause I don't fear man
Cause I feel when I kill a man, God won't understand
I got a head full of evil thoughts, am I Satan

You might think hes just idolizing crime but look at it to what it is. im sure the man knows that alot of people frown upon violence in music etc and in a industry riddled with it he needs to set himself apart.

There ain't **** in this world deeper than loyalty and love
(Except loyalty and love, between thugs)
For you, I pull up in the whip and spray the whole strip
(For you, I walk up close and lay a ni**a's kin)
For you, there ain't a damn thing that I won't do
I'm a Thug, this my way I show, my love for you
(Ni**a for you, I get the coke, I'ma turn it into cash)
For you, if we go broke, we gon' rob a ni**a ass
(For you, if we get knocked, I'ma have to take the weight
'Cause with a record like yours dogg, you ain't stayin' upstate)
Ni**a for you, I kill a whole God damn crew (Why?)
'Cause I know you'd do the same thing too...haha
I ride, you ride for me, my enemies your enemies
How could you not love a Thug like me?

This lyrics itself is similiar to poetry. Shakespeare like in its meanings and the way its written (No not as in old english) This infact reminds me of macbeth and a little bit of romeo and juliet the scene where mercutio and tybalt fight and romeo finds out and seeks revenge.

 

[Young_Warrior]

No, no, no no, no.

If I buy a winning lottery ticket 5 times, I'm lucky, not a genius. If you get shot and become popular in the media becuse of that, your popularity is a product of an unfortunate event that wasn't your doing. The popularity that got him gave him another shot (not pun intended) and he was marketed, that is a lucky outcome coming from an unfortunate event that the media highlighted. If 50 cent got shot and no-one heared about it, he'd still be a nobody. You don't plan on that happening unless your psychotic, things fell into place for him on the grander scale, sure he may be smart but he's not a genius.

Yeah but no ones counting the lottery. I was gonna mention that its lottery excluded but I thought I wouldnt have to.
As for getting popoular because you got shot I belive thats called infamous and he was famous long before that but that doesnt sell stories for the media cause people would prefer to hear he got famous because he got shot. Sorry it didnt happen like that. Its not 50 idolising he got shot its people like the presenters in the media.

I thinik hes genius. Hell im smart. But im not rich. Your smart but your not rich. Obviusoly for some people theye were lucky being ther at the right place at the right time but in a market over filled with rappers that have more talent than 50 cent when it comes to making music well hes a genius. DMX is smart but far from genius. The mans pretty much poor even though he was so succesful with record sales. He was a bad buisness man and now hes poor.

 

[Dave A]

Oh my god, man give up. Your getting ridiculous now. Your still jumping from one reason he's a genius to another, then another then back again. Find your angle an then support that angle, then I'll come back to this debate. Your all over the place at the moment, I say one thing, you change the debate, someone else says another thing, you change the debate again, it's going round andround in one messy circle of you vs everyone else. Your obviously not a genius since you'd have realised by now theres no way you can possibly win and whatever you do in this thread is simply a waste of your time and energy.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Opinons arent about winning or losing or otheriwse it wouldnt be called opinons.

Its seems like im going round in a circle because not only am I having to defend my views that 50 cent is a genius buisness man im also defending the whole of hip hop at the same time.

Ive got some good strong arguments for the hip hop case actually just waiting for later tonight or tomorrow depending if im gonna go out.

 

[Jay]

As for what that baby said they edited the lyrics. .

Really?

We in the club doin the same ol' two step
Guerrilla unit cuz, they say we bugged out
Cuz we don't go nowhere without toast, we thugged out

I got that ^ from some 50 cent lyrics online and its pretty much identical to what Stewie (baby) says.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah but no ones counting the lottery. I was gonna mention that its lottery excluded but I thought I wouldnt have to.
As for getting popoular because you got shot I belive thats called infamous and he was famous long before that but that doesnt sell stories for the media cause people would prefer to hear he got famous because he got shot. Sorry it didnt happen like that. Its not 50 idolising he got shot its people like the presenters in the media.

I thinik hes genius. Hell im smart. But im not rich. Your smart but your not rich. Obviusoly for some people theye were lucky being ther at the right place at the right time but in a market over filled with rappers that have more talent than 50 cent when it comes to making music well hes a genius. DMX is smart but far from genius. The mans pretty much poor even though he was so succesful with record sales. He was a bad buisness man and now hes poor.

Your twisitng my words now, I never once said he played on the fact that he got shot, I said the media did, and thats what put him in the spot light, regardless of what he wanted the media still had a filed day with him. As for me I'm not getting into an I'm smart, your smart blah blah blah, I don't want to get into what I have, don't have and will have in the middle of a debate about 50 cent.

 

[Dave A]

Its seems like im going round in a circle because not only am I having to defend my views that 50 cent is a genius buisness man im also defending the whole of hip hop at the same time.

No one wants you to defent hip hop, if somone attacks hip hop in general ignor it, it's not part of the debate.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Really?



I got that ^ from some 50 cent lyrics online and its pretty my identical to what Stewie (baby) says.

Yeah but stewi hacked and slashed to seperate parts and put them together. Plus thats the dited clean version. The real version in which they dont have to go out their way to fill the gaps doesnt have that in it.

 

[Shannon]

You might think hes just idolizing crime but look at it to what it is. im sure the man knows that alot of people frown upon violence in music etc and in a industry riddled with it he needs to set himself apart.

More like violence is popular and he's capitolizing on it...

Don't believe me? Why are games like Grand Theft Auto amongst the most popular? And why do we like to see great fight scenes in movies? And why are mainstream hip hop songs about thugs shooting each other in the ghetto so popular and sell millions?

People frown upon physical violence. We hate to see news reports of massacres and child abuse and so on, but to fire up a game and bash the **** out of everyone is quite amusing.

This lyrics itself is similiar to poetry. Shakespeare like in its meanings and the way its written (No not as in old english) This infact reminds me of macbeth and a little bit of romeo and juliet the scene where mercutio and tybalt fight and romeo finds out and seeks revenge.

Poetry?! It's your typical gangsta homie-love mainstream hip hop song...

Please, just give up. No one agrees with you, and none of your claims hold up. You don't even back them up. I can say anybody is a genius. Well, Bob over there to my right is a genius...

Nirvana were geniuses (to an extent). They brought grunge to the mainstream in the early 90s and killed off that god awful glam rock of the 80s. All 50 Cent is doing is taking generic lyrics that other rappers have used time and time again in the mainstream and then getting Dr. Dre to throw some beats behind them and market him. You said yourself 50 Cent was nothing before he came to Dre. That obviously means he couldn't produce and market his own crap himself. 50 Cent was never a genius and I doubt he ever will be.

So, just to recap: 50 Cent is NOT a genius. End of story. No more lame claims, statements and excuses... please.

 

[Young_Warrior]

No one wants you to defent hip hop, if somone attacks hip hop in general ignor it, it's not part of the debate.

It is check the first page. Alot of people have layed down their views as to why they dont like rap and hip hop and I responded and so have some other people.

 

[Dave A]

You've jus let people suck you in by taking their bait, the debate was if 50 cent is a genius or not.

 

[Jmac279]

As for getting popoular because you got shot I belive thats called infamous and he was famous long before that but that doesnt sell stories for the media cause people would prefer to hear he got famous because he got shot. Sorry it didnt happen like that. Its not 50 idolising he got shot its people like the presenters in the media.

He had one semi-popular single joking about robbing celebrities ... got shot ... got dropped from his record label without ever releasing an album ... Wow ... was he ever famous ! I mean, everyone here knew of 50 Cent back in 1999 ... !

 

[Young_Warrior]

More like violence is popular and he's capitolizing on it...

Don't believe me? Why are games like Grand Theft Auto amongst the most popular? And why do we like to see great fight scenes in movies? And why are mainstream hip hop songs about thugs shooting each other in the ghetto so popular and sell millions?

People frown upon physical violence. We hate to see news reports of massacres and child abuse and so on, but to fire up a game and bash the **** out of everyone is quite amusing.


Poetry?! It's your typical gangsta homie-love mainstream hip hop song...

Please, just give up. No one agrees with you, and none of your claims hold up. You don't even back them up. I can say anybody are geniuses. Well, Bob over there to my right is a genius...

Nirvana were geniuses (to an extent). They brought grunge to the mainstream in the early 90s and killed off that god awful glam rock of the 80s. All 50 Cent is doing is taking generic lyrics that other rappers have used time and time again in the mainstream and then getting Dr. Dre to throw some beats behind them and market him. You said yourself 50 Cent was nothing before he came to Dre. That obviously means he couldn't produce and market his own crap himself. 50 Cent was never a genius and I doubt he ever will be.

So, just to recap: 50 Cent is NOT a genius. End of story. No more lame claims, statements and excuses... please.

I see you have alot to learn about life yet little cricket. Most of the rap and hip hop songs you see on TV today has hardly got violence in it. Why? It doesnt particulary sell especially when females are the main costumers of hip hop and rap. Back in the 90's there was alot of violence in rap lyrics especially from the like of N.W.A. UK rap artists dont actually mention violence allot at all. I cant think of one mainstream UK rapper that does.

As for poetry shall I post the typical gangsta homie lovin song. I would but I wont has it would probably get me banned.

So you can contest 50 cent being a genius by mentioning nirvana?!!!!!? Surely you could have done allot better than that. There are plenty musical geniuses out yet nirvana is more of a geniuses because they didnt do glam rock and started off in a new genre and made it popular?

50 cent did produce a market for himself that impressed DR.Dre and gave 50 cent finiancial backing to become a major player.