- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Emissions scandals thread
- Thread starter Touring Mars
- 634 comments
- 45,995 views
- 10,836
- Belgium
- bramturismo
My GT86 averages 8l/100km. It is advertised at 7l/100km. Can I claim a free supercharger kit at Toyota?
- 27,218
- United Kingdom
They also put out a press release saying that 25 cars are being tested, but adding that previous independent tests suggest they have nothing to worry about anyway.
Apart from the fact news of these raids has lopped a huge amount from their share price.
Was thinking about the whole diesel thing driving home today in a TDI-engined Passat. And I honestly won't be that sad if such things disappear. It's a perfectly acceptable way of getting from A to B, but modern petrol equivalents are far more refined, equally quick and torquey since most are now turbocharged, and much more fun when you want them to be.
They don't smell foul as you fill them up, and they don't do what this one has done on every journey I've made so far, which is run a DPF regeneration: it'll basically hold the car a gear lower than required everywhere, and at the end of the trip the fan stays on for a few minutes cooling the thing down, since a DPF regen requires massive heat.
Modern diesel engines are impressive, but they're basically a big collection of mechanical bodges in order to make clean an inherently unclean-burning fuel. You're carrying around a bunch of extra crap a car shouldn't really need in order to not poison passers-by. That's not a fuel we should really be using in half of the vehicles sold in Europe.
- 27,218
- United Kingdom
Yeah, but petrol is also cheap at the moment, and the cheaper fuel is as a whole, diesel makes even less sense. Of course, people are generally too dim to realise that.
However, it wouldn't surprise me if people naturally move away from diesels. Fewer companies put diesel engines in smaller cars now because the cost is just too great, and if tax is the only factor, most 3-cyl turbocharged superminis now come in under 100g/km and stuff in the class above is close enough that tax is only £20/30 a year.
Sales reps will still go for diesels but it wouldn't surprise me if C-segment and below slowly phases out diesel. Not least as regulations will probably tighten even more following the VW thing. Eventually it just won't be economically viable to make a smaller diesel car.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
The fuel itself is more expensive than petrol in the UK despite some tax breaks on the cars. It also isn't 'clean' when compared to petrol, not by any means. It's also very very dangerous when spilled onto a road.
EDIT: Partial tree by @homeforsummer
- 87,281
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Diesel not only dropped under 50% market share in 2015, but for the first time since 2009 it sold less than petrol in 2015 too.
It's already happening...
- 10,829
- Plymouth, UK
- motorforum
My Dad switched to a diesel Insignia from a 3.0 V6 S-Type. He says he likes the Insignia, but by god does he still pine for the Jag.
I don't like driving diesel and I hate their environmental problems, so I'm quite happy to see the rise of the turbo triple. I'm very tempted by the highest tune of 1.0 Ecoboost Focus in a couple of years. Mechanically and aurally interesting.
I don't like driving diesel and I hate their environmental problems, so I'm quite happy to see the rise of the turbo triple. I'm very tempted by the highest tune of 1.0 Ecoboost Focus in a couple of years. Mechanically and aurally interesting.
- 17,223
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- 8,221
- Drayton Bassett, North Warwickshire
- Duffers999
- Clark Duffy
At a rough guess I'd say I filled up four-five times but I did do some driving around Le Mans instead. I know on the trip I averaged about 33mpg and can get about 320-330 miles from the 53 litre tank.
- 1,601
- Vienna
- bmw123_
Once upon a time Turbo-Diesel engines were extremely realiable, torquey tractor monsters, which were not the fastest, but they had charcter and could live easily for more than 500 000 km.
Nowerdays they are made unreliable by emission regulations while having to consume less fuel and feel like a petrol engine. Don't get me wrong, these regulations have to be done, otherwise the climate would be worse than it is already.
By the way, petrol direct injection engines will also need particulate filters soon as they produce a lot of soot, especially when not running in homogenious mode.
- 31,676
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Do you know how the early models with a DPF did the regeneration?
They didn't.
You had to visit the the dealer who then let it run at 2500-3000rpm for a good 90-120 minutes!
- 1,410
- Canberra
- Unwired-Eddie
- 1,601
- Vienna
- bmw123_
- 31,676
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
I have done it several times so yeah, I'm pretty sure about it.
- 1,601
- Vienna
- bmw123_
- 17,223
- United Kingdom
- 31,676
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Opel. Especially the 2.2 diesels. Probably happened with other brands too.
There was a time here in the Dutchylands that certain diesels had to be retrofitted (subsidized) with a Dpf, but after a while it turned out that it didn't do squat, so that decision was overturned.
It's one of those things the green side of politics comes up with without putting the proper research into it.
- 5,204
- Finland
We could just say that pretty much every country in Western and Northern Europe is a 'Diesel-Country'.
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- 1,601
- Vienna
- bmw123_
- 31,676
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
There are rumours that Opel Belgium is quietly changing the software in the 2014 and onwards Zafira diesels.
Belgian broadcaster VRT did some research on 2 1.6 diesels and found that the NOx levels are higher than allowed, and that after an update by the dealer those levels were all of the sudden a lot lower.
Belgian broadcaster VRT did some research on 2 1.6 diesels and found that the NOx levels are higher than allowed, and that after an update by the dealer those levels were all of the sudden a lot lower.
- 31,676
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Dutch investigators of the TNO have tested various diesels.
Opel, Mercedes, Audi and Peugeot all have emissions exceeding the norm by 3 to 8 times. There also were noticeable differences between testing on the dyno and the road. The biggest difference was with a Merc C220D. On the road it pooped out 20!!!! times more NOx than on the testbench.
The BMW 530d rolled out the best score.
Opel, Mercedes, Audi and Peugeot all have emissions exceeding the norm by 3 to 8 times. There also were noticeable differences between testing on the dyno and the road. The biggest difference was with a Merc C220D. On the road it pooped out 20!!!! times more NOx than on the testbench.
The BMW 530d rolled out the best score.
- 27,218
- United Kingdom
What still separates all of these, at least on face value, from the Volkswagen thing is that none of these manufacturers appear to have deliberately fudged emissions results in testing procedures.
The latest round of tests is just confirming that on the road, driving normally, vehicles are nowhere near as clean as they are driven at unrealistically low speeds on a rolling road. That much is obvious when a vehicle is listed as doing say, 80mpg on NEDC, only for it to return mid-50s on the road.
I imagine the reason the NOx emissions are significantly higher is due to whatever happens when you burn fuel. CO2 output is directly correlated to MPG, but I expect NOx, CO, particulates and other emissions vary wildly depending on engine load, throttle opening, revs and various other factors.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,308
- United States
Mercedes may be next.
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/18/mercedes-benz-diesel-bluetec-emissions-lawsuit/
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/18/mercedes-benz-diesel-bluetec-emissions-lawsuit/
