Engine Swap / Drivetrain Swap
- Thread starter Brainhulk
- 466 comments
- 54,527 views
- 217
- mazterbill
- 3,645
- PNW
- cowabungacorey
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
LS1's for all!
It amazes me that some people would actually be actively against this in the game. If you don't like it, don't do it. It wouldn't be anybody forcing you.
It reminds me of hybrids from the previous games; the only limit in place was yourself. Some people got endless laughs out of throwing an F1 engine and slicks into a Fit and seeing what happened. I liked a bit more realism; trying to keep swaps limited to the same manufacturer, usually creating cars that PD hadn't given us, stuff like that. Clio V6? I did the same thing with a Civic and an NSX engine. There was a kit in Japan to convert a Del Sol to a mid-engine layout with an F20C... did that too. The whole sub-category of "sleepers" almost wouldn't exist without engine swaps.
The problem is keeping it realistic, and not letting it utterly break online leaderboards (talk of AWD Vipers saddens me). A simple solution to that though would just be to bar any cars without their original engines from submitting times. Which seems fair anyways; the essentially limitless amount of permutations would splinter leaderboards in so many ways.
It amazes me that some people would actually be actively against this in the game. If you don't like it, don't do it. It wouldn't be anybody forcing you.
It reminds me of hybrids from the previous games; the only limit in place was yourself. Some people got endless laughs out of throwing an F1 engine and slicks into a Fit and seeing what happened. I liked a bit more realism; trying to keep swaps limited to the same manufacturer, usually creating cars that PD hadn't given us, stuff like that. Clio V6? I did the same thing with a Civic and an NSX engine. There was a kit in Japan to convert a Del Sol to a mid-engine layout with an F20C... did that too. The whole sub-category of "sleepers" almost wouldn't exist without engine swaps.
The problem is keeping it realistic, and not letting it utterly break online leaderboards (talk of AWD Vipers saddens me). A simple solution to that though would just be to bar any cars without their original engines from submitting times. Which seems fair anyways; the essentially limitless amount of permutations would splinter leaderboards in so many ways.
- 1,175
...Nooo, realistic, like the quote in my post 
A Chevy V8 isn't going to cost much and will go in a lot of cars easily, but if you want a BMW V12 you should have to buy a car with one in it, pay a lot more to have it taken out and put in your new car, if it fits. New weight should be accounted for too. This way we'd also have the chance to balance cars by fitting a smaller engine.
I am all for this feature, but I doubt we'll get it. PD have rendered a lot of premiums engine bays, and it would really get complicated if you put a Ford engine in your Ferrari and then turn around to look in the back.
A Chevy V8 isn't going to cost much and will go in a lot of cars easily, but if you want a BMW V12 you should have to buy a car with one in it, pay a lot more to have it taken out and put in your new car, if it fits. New weight should be accounted for too. This way we'd also have the chance to balance cars by fitting a smaller engine. I am all for this feature, but I doubt we'll get it. PD have rendered a lot of premiums engine bays, and it would really get complicated if you put a Ford engine in your Ferrari and then turn around to look in the back.
- 336
- United Kingdom
I played around with engine and drivetrain swaps alot in Forza Motorsport 3, although fun at first making Ferrari slaying hothatches and such, after a short time the cars became boring. They all felt the same, and lost their individual character which for me is extremely important when playing modern racing games with several hundred of cars on offer.
So for me personally, I wouldn't care for such a feature as I believe the car should be limited by it's original engine and you should try to squeeze as much out of it as you possibly can which for me is a lot of fun. The feature I'm most interested in is the body parts and/or full racing modifications, now that gets my heart racing.
So for me personally, I wouldn't care for such a feature as I believe the car should be limited by it's original engine and you should try to squeeze as much out of it as you possibly can which for me is a lot of fun. The feature I'm most interested in is the body parts and/or full racing modifications, now that gets my heart racing.
- 1,143
- England
Most engine swappers make up conversion plates to bolt the new engine to the original gearbox depending on setup, so you would keep the whole original box and drivetrain just orientation of the engine may change.
Still working on putting a CA18DET in a mk3 golf GTI just need a pair of driveshafts now but there pretty rare and not cheap :-(
- 427
- Croatia
In GT55. Of course, it'll be commonplace by then.
In GT5. Yes, but only as a cheat.
In GT5. Yes, but only as a cheat.
- 678
- BrutherSuperior
Updating/backdating - I'd be ok with that.
For example, you'd be able to update an old BMW 3-series w/a new 3-series engine and you'd be able to backdate a new Honda Civic w/a 600cc carb'd motor. Stuff like that I'd be cool with.
When you get into cross pollination such as fitting a Subaru engine in a VW, then things can get out of hand and many hearts will be broken b/c a certain swap will not be available for a certain car.
In the real world, there's too much you can do if you're a good fabricator and all the possible permutations for 1000+ cars is really asking too much from a video game. Especially a 'simulator'.
When you have to start hacking/wacking subframes, change suspension points, wheelbases, track widths, and engine mounting points; you are, in essence, creating a whole new monster [for better or for worse]. It's too difficult to predict how that car will perform while it's too easy for bench/forum racers to say this & that.
Swaps across manufacturers will not be a good thing.
Now updating/backdating cars is something that is allowed in many forms of motorsport. I can see this working only if car classes are based on something simple, like power:weight + tire type & the physics is damn-near perfect. I say this b/c it may be easy for some 'swap' cars to slip through the cracks and become a very dominant car. That. Would. Suck.
Look at the AWD swaps in FM3; despite their added weight, they're dominant. Bad physics combined with a poor vehicle classification/PI system rendered many cars (90%?) uncompetitive despite what their 'stats' said.
If there cannot be parity & a reasonable 'class' system - I'd rather not be able to swap engines & drivetrains.
For example, you'd be able to update an old BMW 3-series w/a new 3-series engine and you'd be able to backdate a new Honda Civic w/a 600cc carb'd motor. Stuff like that I'd be cool with.
When you get into cross pollination such as fitting a Subaru engine in a VW, then things can get out of hand and many hearts will be broken b/c a certain swap will not be available for a certain car.
In the real world, there's too much you can do if you're a good fabricator and all the possible permutations for 1000+ cars is really asking too much from a video game. Especially a 'simulator'.
When you have to start hacking/wacking subframes, change suspension points, wheelbases, track widths, and engine mounting points; you are, in essence, creating a whole new monster [for better or for worse]. It's too difficult to predict how that car will perform while it's too easy for bench/forum racers to say this & that.
Swaps across manufacturers will not be a good thing.
Now updating/backdating cars is something that is allowed in many forms of motorsport. I can see this working only if car classes are based on something simple, like power:weight + tire type & the physics is damn-near perfect. I say this b/c it may be easy for some 'swap' cars to slip through the cracks and become a very dominant car. That. Would. Suck.
Look at the AWD swaps in FM3; despite their added weight, they're dominant. Bad physics combined with a poor vehicle classification/PI system rendered many cars (90%?) uncompetitive despite what their 'stats' said.
If there cannot be parity & a reasonable 'class' system - I'd rather not be able to swap engines & drivetrains.
- 322
- FlourescentBlack and FlourecsentBlack
Sort of funny, last night I had a dream I was on a street bike and I was getting chased off road by some crazy guy in an AWD viper. I could have sworn he had angry eyebrows.
Best quote of the dream was the other guy that was getting chased with me said as the viper guy was cresting a hill. "If he's already shifting into second we're screwed"
Best quote of the dream was the other guy that was getting chased with me said as the viper guy was cresting a hill. "If he's already shifting into second we're screwed"
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- 437
- RE-Amemiiya
1000 cars... about 900 of them you will be able to engine swap, I bet some special cars you wont be able to do anything with them.
So lets just say 900 cars with 500-600 engines. Many engines are the same. So about half a million combinations! Not to mention car painter, body kits for some, and race car mods for some.. hmm not counting engine mods.. there should be at least a million different car variations!
As for me, Ill stick to 2,000 cars.
One bone stock
The other tunned, engine swapped, body added, painted cars. And Race Car moded.
So lets just say 900 cars with 500-600 engines. Many engines are the same. So about half a million combinations! Not to mention car painter, body kits for some, and race car mods for some.. hmm not counting engine mods.. there should be at least a million different car variations!
As for me, Ill stick to 2,000 cars.
One bone stock
The other tunned, engine swapped, body added, painted cars. And Race Car moded.
- 576
At least they could put in the Z-Cars RWD Mini, seeing that this is a swap that must have been done dozens if not hundreds of times now. If you like lightweight plus RWD and don't know Z-Cars yet, check:
http://zcars.org.uk/new/index.php
http://zcars.org.uk/new/index.php
- 46
- Sapphire-Wolf
- Emerald Wolf
- 82
- GoldenGateFields / GTP_Golden
Just because it's in Forza why is that a problem? Going by that logic we shouldn't have cockpit view, or even cars for that matter!
Circuit*Star
(Banned)
- 230
- XavierFWD
I dont think this is a good idea for GT maybe for forza it is but not for GT
GT is a more serious platform that cares about Realism and physics unlike
forza. Putting engine swaps etc extreme customization on vehicles would destroy the gt genre
Just like it would destroy any racing event in any class world wide
World Racing in most part is regulated by The FIA regulations (Federation Internationale de l'Automobile) these rules applies to many if not most motor sport around the world to best bring you the best competitive environment ever possible... Think of the regulation of the WRC for Mass production vehicle like the evo,sti,focus etc Manufacturers have to meet FIA standards on these vehicles to make them competitive as well as they can and also provide these to the general public with the same degree of functions and features.
The same rule applies to GT...even though yes Tuners are in the simulator to modified a car to your liking like we do in a real world. KY gave us that experience since GT1 in which he turned each model car into modified racing car this was fabulous..it was a great to see a tiny civic or corolla turn into full body roll cage racing car ....BUt it was all under KY PD GT1 Regulations...making extreme engine swaps and drive strain will make it impossible to balance the degree of regulation to race with others..also you have to think about engine physics and weight distribution for each swap and how each swap will affect and perform with each vehicle..
Forza is more of a Have fun racing game
GT is serious Drivers racing simulator
to the degree that it would get you tired n fun is no longer part of it..it becomes frustrating and can give you a heck of a challenge either participating with Ai, license test and online racing events. GT is a challenge to all of us and when we fulfill that challenge we celebrate in accomplishment and victory....this is why Gt will be the best and it is the Ultimate racing simulator unlike others racing games and simulators...its not all about the graphics and the cars and engine swaps and putting stickers on cars but the task and genre , challenge that PD KY want us to fulfill....and it is all enjoyable
Forza for want be Racers (Game) FUN
GT for Real Racers (Simulator) Challenge
GT is a more serious platform that cares about Realism and physics unlike
forza. Putting engine swaps etc extreme customization on vehicles would destroy the gt genre
Just like it would destroy any racing event in any class world wide
World Racing in most part is regulated by The FIA regulations (Federation Internationale de l'Automobile) these rules applies to many if not most motor sport around the world to best bring you the best competitive environment ever possible... Think of the regulation of the WRC for Mass production vehicle like the evo,sti,focus etc Manufacturers have to meet FIA standards on these vehicles to make them competitive as well as they can and also provide these to the general public with the same degree of functions and features.
The same rule applies to GT...even though yes Tuners are in the simulator to modified a car to your liking like we do in a real world. KY gave us that experience since GT1 in which he turned each model car into modified racing car this was fabulous..it was a great to see a tiny civic or corolla turn into full body roll cage racing car ....BUt it was all under KY PD GT1 Regulations...making extreme engine swaps and drive strain will make it impossible to balance the degree of regulation to race with others..also you have to think about engine physics and weight distribution for each swap and how each swap will affect and perform with each vehicle..
Forza is more of a Have fun racing game
GT is serious Drivers racing simulator
to the degree that it would get you tired n fun is no longer part of it..it becomes frustrating and can give you a heck of a challenge either participating with Ai, license test and online racing events. GT is a challenge to all of us and when we fulfill that challenge we celebrate in accomplishment and victory....this is why Gt will be the best and it is the Ultimate racing simulator unlike others racing games and simulators...its not all about the graphics and the cars and engine swaps and putting stickers on cars but the task and genre , challenge that PD KY want us to fulfill....and it is all enjoyable
Forza for want be Racers (Game) FUN
GT for Real Racers (Simulator) Challenge
- 678
- BrutherSuperior
It's a problem b/c many of those 'swap' cars were either so terrible to drive, you regretted wasting your fake $ -or- the car got around the PI system and was faster than everything else in its class.
Sure, physics played a part...but do you really want a game with over a 1000 cars yet only a handful being competitive? No, you don't. Getting your lines right, proper braking, and vehicle tuning should be the method to having a quick ride; not swapping engine A into car X and having a world-beater.
