Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

  • Thread starter eKretz
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Erik,

I just had a look at the specs of the buhler motors. Could you comment on the live expectancy?
Is 1500 hours correct?

BUHLER_SPECS.jpg


http://www.buehlermotor.de/C12572D4...EBRDE/$File/DC Motor_40 x 83_1.13.049.4XX.pdf
 
My gt2 appears to have developed a major issue. Three month old warranty replacement. The wheel is is very coggy and sometimes it is like that even when it is off. Low FF settings always in every game I play. Never enough to squeal the motor and I even check the housing often to make sure it isnt too hot. Didnt seem to help. I think it is a loose or cracked magnet inside that POS stock motor. Does anyone know what Fanatec's warranty says about fixing a failed replacement ? Did my warranty start over with the new unit ? All I know is I am so damn sad about this. The new Grid game is around the corner and might be worth a play and I was really loving the Senna Gt addon.. :(

What is odd to me is that the cogging would happen when it is off and then disappear after I started messing around trying to figure out what happened so it is intermittent. It is not the belt or pulley system. Anyone that has ever turned an electric motor by hand can feel that grab release feeling as the magnets line up etc. At the moment it is only doing it when on but that could change.
 
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Your warranty is from the day of purchase, so getting a replacement doesn't change that date. There are people who have had numerous replacement wheels so that shouldn't be an issue. Getting them to respond to you is a whole other matter.
 
fatkrakr
Your warranty is from the day of purchase, so getting a replacement doesn't change that date. There are people who have had numerous replacement wheels so that shouldn't be an issue. Getting them to respond to you is a whole other matter.
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I call them in Germany. That is the sure fire way to reach them. Last time I had issues that is what I did and it was mopped up quickly. This time though I am out of warranty however their replacement lasted just 3 and 1/2 months of light to moderate usage with low FF settings. Lame ~!
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of being a Fanatec owner. The wheels are great when they work, unfortunately the motors are just not up to the job. Or maybe somehow you got some of those bad CSW motors. :rolleyes: You know there was a bad batch of them for the CSW, even though those same motors have been failing in their other wheels for years now. :banghead:
 
fatkrakr
Welcome to the wonderful world of being a Fanatec owner. The wheels are great when they work, unfortunately the motors are just not up to the job. Or maybe somehow you got some of those bad CSW motors. :rolleyes: You know there was a bad batch of them for the CSW, even though those same motors have been failing in their other wheels for years now. :banghead:
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What I find most amusing is that my microsoft wireless racing wheel from 200? still works. Yes it feels like a total toy now but I used the hell out of it and all these years later it still works. Can't stand to use it though.
 
eKretz
No not the way the firmware and power supply are set up. Fanatec have the motors pulling almost their full stall current unless you turn the FF setting down. The only way to get motors to survive this and not fade or self-destruct is to use the stoutest, best-made motors you can find and keep them as cool as possible. If Fanatec had done things a little differently it would have made things a lot simpler. If we could access the firmware and write our own we could drop the maximum current to the motors and boost the low end a bit to get perfect linearity and low heat so we probably could get away with either a near silent air pump or maybe even just use the fan cooling. Especially if making a switch to brushless since the armature on a brushless is basically swapped with the brushed motor. The magnets are on the motor shaft and the coils are on the inside of the can outside of the magnets mounted on the motor shaft. That makes it a lot easier to cool the wire, (especially would make a water jacket on the can much more efficient) where most of the heat is coming from.
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Found this interesting. Apparently Thrustmaster is first with a brushless motor.
http://www.simracingblog.com/thrustmaster-tx-wheel-review/
 
turdhat
What I find most amusing is that my microsoft wireless racing wheel from 200? still works. Yes it feels like a total toy now but I used the hell out of it and all these years later it still works. Can't stand to use it though.
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The only wheels on the market that have regular motor failures are the Fanatec wheels. They are also the only wheel manufacturer that the cheapest part in the wheel is the motors, they cost $3 a piece. The fan, power button, even the belts cost more. :banghead: Im still kicking myself for not checking what motors where used before I purchased mine. I bought mine and about 2 months later people started reporting motor failures, then it was discovered that they are using the same motors that had been failing in their GT2 wheel. :ill:

eKertz motor mod seems to be the answer for CSW owners, but its another few hundred to get it all setup properly. Sure wasn't expecting to spend that money to get the wheel I thought I was buying to start with. :dunce:
 
Yup, the TX has a cheap Chinese brushless. Unlimited stall torque is 265mN•m - less than one of the Bühler motors. Not sure how the gear ratio is in that wheel though.
 
HoiHman
Erik,

I just had a look at the specs of the buhler motors. Could you comment on the live expectancy?
Is 1500 hours correct?

BUHLER_SPECS.jpg


http://www.buehlermotor.de/C12572D40025EAF8/vwContentByKey/W274AHF5391WEBRDE/$File/DC Motor_40 x 83_1.13.049.4XX.pdf
Click to expand...

Got me. Try asking them. I don't have the slightest notion of how that's calculated - I'm guessing it's 1500 hours of continuous running at rated RPM though. This means they will wear the brushes and/or commutator surface out in 1500 hours. Since we normally don't see anywhere near rated RPM I'm guessing it's going to be considerably longer in our wheels. I posted pics of an armature, commutator and brushes from one of the Bühlers I had been using in my wheel for over a year earlier in this thread and they had plenty of life left in them. Take that as you will.
 
eKretz
Got me. Try asking them. I don't have the slightest notion of how that's calculated - I'm guessing it's 1500 hours of continuous running at rated RPM though. This means they will wear the brushes and/or commutator surface out in 1500 hours. Since we normally don't see anywhere near rated RPM I'm guessing it's going to be considerably longer in our wheels. I posted pics of an armature, commutator and brushes from one of the Bühlers I had been using in my wheel for over a year earlier in this thread and they had plenty of life left in them. Take that as you will.
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I didn't relies you have been running these motors that long. That's what has been holding me back from jumping on board. Im a bit gun shy now so want to see them in action for 6-8 months before I spend anymore money on this thing.

Luckily I was smart enough to remove the new motor block they had sent me when they shipped me a new wheel because of the code wheel on my old one. Stuck the burnt motor block back in it and shipped it back to them. I really didn't want to send it in for repair and they wont send or sell me a new motor block, so I just stuck that one in there. When this block goes Ill be calling on you probably. :cheers:
 
fatkrakr
I didn't relies you have been running these motors that long. That's what has been holding me back from jumping on board. Im a bit gun shy now so want to see them in action for 6-8 months before I spend anymore money on this thing.

Luckily I was smart enough to remove the new motor block they had sent me when they shipped me a new wheel because of the code wheel on my old one. Stuck the burnt motor block back in it and shipped it back to them. I really didn't want to send it in for repair and they wont send or sell me a new motor block, so I just stuck that one in there. When this block goes Ill be calling on you probably. :cheers:
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Yeah, I've been running mine since Feb. 2013 or thereabouts. I didn't start offering mods to others until I started getting a lot of requests to please offer mods to others over and over again, lol. As of today there are about 40 guys running this mod. The first guys have had theirs for about 8 months now - those guys were guys who contacted me discreetly through email for help when their motors had repeatedly died and they wanted Bühlers. At that time I was not planning on offering modding services - but I was talked into helping those few guys out with the intention of not modding anybody else's wheels in the future unless they were desperate like these guys. I even made them promise not to talk about it publicly because I didn't want to get a bunch of guys hounding me, lol. And now look where we are! I decided to change my mind at some point and try to help out those who need or want the help badly, but still not planning on pushing the mod or advertising it at all. Though it seems like more and more guys find their way here through Google. That's cool though, I'm really enjoying hearing all the positive feedback and boy do I get it.
 
turdhat
What I find most amusing is that my microsoft wireless racing wheel from 200? still works. Yes it feels like a total toy now but I used the hell out of it and all these years later it still works. Can't stand to use it though.
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I also have an older wheel, a DFGT, it has never failed, but I enjoy my Elite much more even if it is more fragile, sort of Ferrari vs. Hyundai syndrome, LOL. between reliability and enjoyment, I prefer the later, in a non essential hobby.
The motor are always blamed in the Elite/CSW base, but even when putting a better motor, it is STRONGLY recommended to have them air cooled. If the Fanabushi had been air cooled since the get go, I am pretty sure this thread would have not happened.
 
Cote Dazur
I also have an older wheel, a DFGT, it has never failed, but I enjoy my Elite much more even if it is more fragile, sort of Ferrari vs. Hyundai syndrome, LOL. between reliability and enjoyment, I prefer the later, in a non essential hobby.
The motor are always blamed in the Elite/CSW base, but even when putting a better motor, it is STRONGLY recommended to have them air cooled. If the Fanabushi had been air cooled since the get go, I am pretty sure this thread would have not happened.
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I don't know if I 100% agree with that. I mean sure air cooling them probably would of helped greatly, maybe even eliminated the problem completely, but other wheels don't seem to need air cooling to keep their motors from fading or out right failing. So I still think it is a cheap motor problem more than a cooling problem.
 
It is cheap motor + cheap motor being pushed too hard (too near unlimited stall) + lack of cooling, IMO. The Buhler motors would likely last a lot longer than stock motors with no cooling at high FFB levels, but ultimately would almost certainly fail eventually. The nice thing about the air cooling is you don't get noticeable fade anymore in addition to the longevity benefits.
 
fatkrakr
I don't know if I 100% agree with that. I mean sure air cooling them probably would of helped greatly, maybe even eliminated the problem completely, but other wheels don't seem to need air cooling to keep their motors from fading or out right failing. So I still think it is a cheap motor problem more than a cooling problem.
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Absolutely, the better the motor the less of an issue it will be and Fanatec did not help them self by putting a very cheap motor in an other wise very well engineered and expensive wheel base. Surely one of those decision Thomas whishes he could go back in time and change.:guilty:

@eKretz, I have not installed my Buhler's yet, mostly because my Fanabushis are still doing the job, but also because I thought that the over heating would be a big issue, particularly because they are stronger, so generate more heat, etc... so not a good idea until I also put air cooling.
But from you latest (double;)) message, since I do not fancy high FFB, I think I will go ahead and install my upgrade kit without cooling.
Since I do not use high FFB, fade is not something I really notice, I know it can happen, but it is not an issue for me.
 
Ekretz, I ask you this before but wanted to know if you can still fix Gt2 units ? It got really coggy the other day and you even felt it when the unit was off. After about 60 seconds of being off it stops cogging if you turn it but will do so again if used for more than 5 minutes. Heat sink and fans are proper and working. Pulley, rim shaft and belt are fine. What I find odd is that you feel the cogging the most when you are coming out of a turn and the wheel is gettin lighter. Going in to a turn it doesnt really cog much and the fact that it comes and goes. Weird. Cracked magnet ?
 
Cote Dazur
Absolutely, the better the motor the less of an issue it will be and Fanatec did not help them self by putting a very cheap motor in an other wise very well engineered and expensive wheel base. Surely one of those decision Thomas whishes he could go back in time and change.:guilty:

@eKretz, I have not installed my Buhler's yet, mostly because my Fanabushis are still doing the job, but also because I thought that the over heating would be a big issue, particularly because they are stronger, so generate more heat, etc... so not a good idea until I also put air cooling.
But from you latest (double;)) message, since I do not fancy high FFB, I think I will go ahead and install my upgrade kit without cooling.
Since I do not use high FFB, fade is not something I really notice, I know it can happen, but it is not an issue for me.
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Can't hurt to try it. See how it goes.
 
turdhat
Ekretz, I ask you this before but wanted to know if you can still fix Gt2 units ? It got really coggy the other day and you even felt it when the unit was off. After about 60 seconds of being off it stops cogging if you turn it but will do so again if used for more than 5 minutes. Heat sink and fans are proper and working. Pulley, rim shaft and belt are fine. What I find odd is that you feel the cogging the most when you are coming out of a turn and the wheel is gettin lighter. Going in to a turn it doesnt really cog much and the fact that it comes and goes. Weird. Cracked magnet ?
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Got me, haven't heard of that type of failure before.
 
I've been looking at T500 RS vs CSW for a while now and I was pretty much convinced that I was going to buy a T500 RS with a load cell mod instead of the CSW because of the motor issues, even though I vastly prefer the look of the CSW. I'm thinking now that I might buy the CSW, knowing that this quality mod is available to upgrade the motors to what they should have been all along...
 
eKretz
Guys, big time alert!! Perfect power supplies just showed up on eBay - and looks like he has quite a few!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mean-Well-S...296?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d1e931c40

Get 'em while they're hot! There are also a couple other sellers with the same supply but this guy is cheapest and has great (100%) feedback. $33.00 shipped, to me. Total might be a bit different depending on how far away you are from him.
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Wow, this came fast. I received it yesterday. I haven't opened it yet because, well, I don't need it yet and I don't yet have any idea what I'll be doing with it. BUT IT CAME.
 
Well, I am still waiting on the last guy from the "first 5" list to respond. After he gives a yes or no and sends payment we'll have our order placed and be on our way. @IAmSpotless where are you?

Edit: hmm, that's weird, the GTP name he entered on the list didn't hotlink.
 
Punknoodle
I've been looking at T500 RS vs CSW for a while now and I was pretty much convinced that I was going to buy a T500 RS with a load cell mod instead of the CSW because of the motor issues, even though I vastly prefer the look of the CSW. I'm thinking now that I might buy the CSW, knowing that this quality mod is available to upgrade the motors to what they should have been all along...
Click to expand...

I've always wanted the CSW also and like you was scared off from all these problems being reported. I bought the T500 F1 version instead and it was ok for a while but now has a wobble in the wheel. From what I have read this is from Thrustmaster using screws that are not long enough going into the hub. I'm thinking about getting it fixed, selling it and still ordering a CSW setup. I'm tired of dealing with plastic wheels. My Fanatec Forza CSR wheel and CSP V1 Pedals set are still working fine.

I think I will get the CSW setup and then if I need help after the warranty is up I know who to turn to.
 
OK guys, still no response from our #5 guy. What's the consensus on how long to wait before we move on to the next guy on the list.
 

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