Fanatec Gran Turismo DD Pro

[HugoTwoWheels]

I did not get the better pedal like some of you advice to get

It's a preference thing, I'd say. Driving in socks, at a desk, I even removed the foam insert from the CSL pedals. For me, it's excellent. I have no issues modulating, with precision, or any strange strain. (You modulate the throttle pedal, so why shouldn't you be able to modulate braking without it being super stiff?)
And no, it's not "distance based vs pressure based". All pedals - if they got hydraulics/spring/foam, which they all do - increase in distance with increased pressure since they compress the hydraulics/spring/foam further and further. The difference is the linearity and ability to mod your pedal to suit your needs and preference - that's where load cell is superior.
Also, do you prefer socks or shoes?
(Spare me the "realism" ********, please. It's another topic.)

And yes, definitely update the firmware. If you look through the changelogs, you'll understand why.

 

[super_gt]

(You modulate the throttle pedal, so why shouldn't you be able to modulate braking without it being super stiff?)

I guess you drive with ABS on, otherwise you wouldn't ask this question.

 

[Rubbersmoke]

This is kinda my first entry to the world of simracing, so im not sure if shoes or socks are better. I guess i will start off with shoes, since that is what i usally do in a car.
Is there a possibillity to "save" settings, so i can swap fast between them? I got a son at 5years, and i belive i need to lower some of the settings if he is to try some racing.

 

[super_gt]

Is there a possibillity to "save" settings, so i can swap fast between them? I got a son at 5years, and i belive i need to lower some of the settings if he is to try some racing.

You can save 5 different settings in the tuning menu of the wheel.

 

[Yard_Sale]

This is kinda my first entry to the world of simracing, so im not sure if shoes or socks are better. I guess i will start off with shoes, since that is what i usally do in a car.
Is there a possibillity to "save" settings, so i can swap fast between them? I got a son at 5years, and i belive i need to lower some of the settings if he is to try some racing.

I was in your same boat about a year and change ago. I started off with shoes but it just felt awful. So I went to socks and stayed there for a while. Recently…like 6 months ago….I bought done racing shoes off of Amazon. That’s going to be my operation from here on out.

I too am upgrading to a CSL DD. I literally have been checking my email multiple times a day in hopes that I get surprised and I receive an “order processing” email from Fanatec earlier than March. To no avail so far, but here’s to hoping! Haha

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

I guess you drive with ABS on, otherwise you wouldn't ask this question.

Of course, in GT Sport. But trail braking is still important - it's not on or off. I use ABS on the default setting since there are no cons to it. In GT7, maybe they make "weak" ABS quicker if used correctly - perhaps load cell might be worth it for performance then even for me.

However, I've tried ABS off in GT Sport and ACC - no issues, as IRL.

Edit: But yes, as I said before, if you drive a specific car on a specific track, with specific tyres and weather, you can make modifications to the load cell pedal elastomers so it becomes difficult to lock the brakes. I most likely won't ever bother with this though - too much hassle for my taste.

 

[Yard_Sale]

What are these mods you speak of?

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

What are these mods you speak of?

He explains it best:


If you want to understand what a load cell is:


14:05 for the CSL load cell:


If you want easy modifications with Fanatec, look at the V3 instead.

 

[Rob Brown]

However, I've tried ABS off in GT Sport and ACC - no issues, as IRL.

This thread diverges but these are significant topics for those buying the DD equipment, so I ask this; especially since Hugo seems very well informed, so he is perfect to propose this question (as well as @super_gt ). Gran Turismo has countersteer assist and traction control as well as ABS settings. Most are happy to drive with aids off with the exception of ABS. Why do the majority of good racers draw the line here at not welcoming the satisfaction of being 100% responsible for the control of the car by turning ABS off?
I’ve been seeking this answer for quite some time. I’m expecting that you’ll respond with something I’ve already heard but there’s always the chance that you’ll respond with something that will help me find peace and tranquility. 😁😆

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Why do the majority of good racers draw the line here at not welcoming the satisfaction of being 100% responsible for the control of the car by turning ABS off?

Simple: I only care about performance. Whatever makes me faster and more consistent, I'll use and do. Hence bumper cam, only ABS at default and everything else off.
It'd be exciting if ABS Weak was faster in GT7...

Whoever wants more assistance, or more immersion/realism, might prefer other settings.
Also, some people are faster with hood view or chase cam - go ahead! (Just don't crash into me because you lack a rear view mirror.) But nobody's faster with ABS at weak or off.

 

[gthelmi2398]

You are absolutely right. The camera ingame is a big point. I can't drive with bumper cam, I need to see the left and the right of my car. So I choose hood view from the first day I played GT.
Tried cockpit some days before,but only for myself enjoying to drive. In ACC cockpit is my favourite view, also in a race.

 

[Yard_Sale]

He explains it best:


If you want to understand what a load cell is:


14:05 for the CSL load cell:


If you want easy modifications with Fanatec, look at the V3 instead.

I've messed around with different elastomer stacks (I have the now old csl elite load cell kit). I ran no foam insert for a while, then I recently put it back in - although I shimmed it with several large washers to get the excessive dead zone out which I feel the foam insert simulates poorly. I feel like I've dialed the brake into what I feel is a progressive feel as much as I can. The only thing I haven't tried yet is taken some of the elastomers to my drill press and drilling a bunch of small holes in some of the 85 and 95 shore elastomers to see if I can custom make the stiffness I want. Maybe I'll get around to it one of these days.

What I really need is a new set of pedals. I've been contemplating just getting the V3's, but I hate buying stuff when I KNOW Fanatec has something better in the works. I'm a buy once, cry once kinda guy. I'm hopeful that GT7 better simulates both a linear throttle and brake than it did in GTS. In ACC, it seems like both are much more progressive and linear in their coding

 

[Yard_Sale]

You are absolutely right. The camera ingame is a big point. I can't drive with bumper cam, I need to see the left and the right of my car. So I choose hood view from the first day I played GT.
Tried cockpit some days before,but only for myself enjoying to drive. In ACC cockpit is my favourite view, also in a race.

I was bumper cam forever, mainly because that's the only view I had ever used. I briefly tried the hood/roof cam but it felt just too unnatural. I the pursuit of authenticity, I switched to cockpit view a year ago and that's my preferred view now. I can't wait till I move my rig outside to my garage and am able to permanently set up a TV and my playseat challenge to where the FOV is correct (I'm just kind of making it work now.....fov isn't bad, but its not perfect either). What I really can't wait for is PSVR2 for GT7. I don't care how much time it costs me in the way of lap times... I WANT IT!! Hopefully we'll be able to do daily races in VR. That would be BOSS!!!

 

[PirovacBoy]

Why do the majority of good racers draw the line here at not welcoming the satisfaction of being 100% responsible for the control of the car by turning ABS off?

Simple, because it’s much harder to be CONSISTENT AND MAINTAINING PACE without ABS. At least in GTS.
I sometimes host lobbies with ABS deactivated, and here lies the big advantage of a Load Cell.
If I manage to do a flawless Lap, the difference in lap time compared to my ABS Lap Time is negligible. Maybe 2 or 3 tenths difference over a Lap at most.
But the Focus required to drive at that Level of Perfection over a long Race is too hard and therefore not recommended in an Competitive Online Focused Racing Game like GTS.

And because of that I prefer driving with ABS in GTS. It’s just the more relaxed way to play.
In Project Cars 2 for example, it’s the complete opposite. I‘m faster with ABS turned off. Hence I don’t use it there.
But GTS is different in that regard.
Which doesn’t mean it’s unrealistic either way.
I‘m all in for immersion and a close to real life driving experience when playing Video Games.
For example I always use Cockpit View without the HUD. Be it FIA Races or just Lobbies.
Why?
Because it’s the View that comes closest to what I see when driving my Car in real life. Simple isn’t it ?!
I have a rear view Mirror in Cockpit View same as in real Life.
I mapped two Buttons on my Wheel for looking left or right. And that’s it.
I drive perfectly fine and super clean and fast in that View without any major disadvantages compared to the other Views.
But each to his own to me it doesn’t matter how anyone enjoys his Games. As Long as you get the Satisfaction you’re looking for, be it immersion or just being as fast as possible. Just set it up the way you like it most and have a good time.
And like @HugoTwoWheels once said, if I want the real thrill, I just hop on my Motorcycle and get my fix. Nothing comes close to driving in real life

 

[super_gt]

Simple, because it’s much harder to be CONSISTENT AND MAINTAINING PACE without ABS. At least in GTS.

At least with the CSL Load Cell Kit I am very consistent and fast in GTS with ABS off.
With the standard non load cell brake pedal and ABS off I'm very slow.

 

[PirovacBoy]

At least with the CSL Load Cell Kit I am very consistent and fast in GTS with ABS off.

For sure, it’s just a matter of getting used to the braking inputs, no doubt about that.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

Well, let's say your natural stomp until you lock the brakes is 70 kg. You set the load cell sensitivity so it doesn't lock at 70 kg. It's suddenly easy to not lock.
(If your natural stomp is 140 kg... Well...)

Doesn't this "hack" equal to physically stopping the potentiometer/hall pedal from descending past 50-65%? You just stomp and can't lock on the straights. Then you let go slowly when entering the turn.

Load cell users won't feel like they're cheating, but potentiometer/hall users might.

I'm a bit surprised I haven't read about anyone doing this with potentiometer/hall pedals. But I'd be equally surprised if nobody's doing it.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Well, let's say your natural stomp until you lock the brakes is 70 kg. You set the load cell sensitivity so it doesn't lock at 70 kg. It's suddenly easy to not lock.
(If your natural stomp is 140 kg... Well...)

Doesn't this "hack" equal to physically stopping the potentiometer/hall pedal from descending past 50-65%? You just stomp and can't lock on the straights. Then you let go slowly when entering the turn.

Load cell users won't feel like they're cheating, but potentiometer/hall users might.

I'm a bit surprised I haven't read about anyone doing this with potentiometer/hall pedals. But I'd be equally surprised if nobody's doing it.

The whole Load Cell principle is about building Muscle Memory. So actually by repetition and memorizing how much “stomp“ you need to apply until the brakes lock up.
It’s not that different to Potentiometer Based Braking other than in that Case you build up Travel/Distance Memory on let’s say a very light Brake Pedal for example a Thrustmaster 2Pedal Set.
As soon as you get a slight amount of Brake Resistance, I’d call it Pseudo Load Cell Braking, for example a Thrustmaster T3Pa Pedal with the Conical Brake Mod which is included.
In that Case the Potentiometer Principle is still in charge but as soon as you hit that Conical Rubber Stop you have to add Muscle Memory too.

But GTS works a bit different than other Racing Games as it recalibrates that Maximum Break Pressure Point every time you exceed that Max Point of Force applied.
That doesn’t happen with a Load Cell Pedal at all. Don’t ask me why, but that’s how it works in GTS .

So of course like you said, it might be possible to “cheat“ this System by simply adding a hard stop to the Brake Pedal, but I don’t think it‘d work because of the Reason I mentioned above.
At least I haven’t tried it.

 

[Rob Brown]

Simple: I only care about performance. Whatever makes me faster and more consistent, I'll use and do. Hence bumper cam, only ABS at default and everything else off.
It'd be exciting if ABS Weak was faster in GT7...

Whoever wants more assistance, or more immersion/realism, might prefer other settings.
Also, some people are faster with hood view or chase cam - go ahead! (Just don't crash into me because you lack a rear view mirror.) But nobody's faster with ABS at weak or off.

You summarize very well. You’re aligned in your thinking with most guys I race with.

What I really need is a new set of pedals. I've been contemplating just getting the V3's, but I hate buying stuff when I KNOW Fanatec has something better in the works. I'm a buy once, cry once kinda guy. I'm hopeful that GT7 better simulates both a linear throttle and brake than it did in GTS. In ACC, it seems like both are much more progressive and linear in their coding

Ya, waiting on Podium pedals. We shouldn’t hold our breath or throw tantrums, as it won’t help Fanatec speed up anything. (I’ve given up on QR2).

I was bumper cam forever, mainly because that's the only view I had ever used. I briefly tried the hood/roof cam but it felt just too unnatural. I the pursuit of authenticity, I switched to cockpit view a year ago and that's my preferred view now. I can't wait till I move my rig outside to my garage and am able to permanently set up a TV and my playseat challenge to where the FOV is correct (I'm just kind of making it work now.....fov isn't bad, but its not perfect either). What I really can't wait for is PSVR2 for GT7. I don't care how much time it costs me in the way of lap times... I WANT IT!! Hopefully we'll be able to do daily races in VR. That would be BOSS!!!

My story is the same, only I made it to the better FoV already. Same dream for psvr2.

Honestly, our culture has some hangup and pins so much on HOPE. Self included - I bought GTS in a VR bundle pack on the hope that “VR compatible” meant that I could race online in VR. Man did I get played as a sucker! Fast forward 4.5 years to present, PD (pr Sony) hasn’t said anything about VR. Only about syncing music and making clouds pretty.

 

[super_gt]

Well, let's say your natural stomp until you lock the brakes is 70 kg. You set the load cell sensitivity so it doesn't lock at 70 kg. It's suddenly easy to not lock.

At least in my case I set the BRF so I am able to lock the tires, because just before I lock the tires the braking is most effective. And this should not require all my strength because it is too tiring to drive like this for a long time.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

The whole Load Cell principle is about building Muscle Memory. So actually by repetition and memorizing how much “stomp“ you need to apply until the brakes lock up.
It’s not that different to Potentiometer Based Braking other than in that Case you build up Travel/Distance Memory on let’s say a very light Brake Pedal for example a Thrustmaster 2Pedal Set.
As soon as you get a slight amount of Brake Resistance, I’d call it Pseudo Load Cell Braking, for example a Thrustmaster T3Pa Pedal with the Conical Brake Mod which is included.
In that Case the Potentiometer Principle is still in charge but as soon as you hit that Conical Rubber Stop you have to add Muscle Memory too.

But GTS works a bit different than other Racing Games as it recalibrates that Maximum Break Pressure Point every time you exceed that Max Point of Force applied.
That doesn’t happen with a Load Cell Pedal at all. Don’t ask me why, but that’s how it works in GTS .

So of course like you said, it might be possible to “cheat“ this System by simply adding a hard stop to the Brake Pedal, but I don’t think it‘d work because of the Reason I mentioned above.
At least I haven’t tried it.

But... It takes force to compress a spring, right? And the more force you apply, the more you compress it, right? So, is a spring pressure or distance based? Does it matter? (It depends on the sensor - results are the same.)
But sure, if the spring is almost like air in resistance, or if you're "super strong and manly" (insensitive), you might need a super stiff spring or 120 kg load cell with steel-like rubber as resistance.
Anyway, I wouldn't call it "pressure memory" vs "distance memory". And honestly, even if it was so, people can have pretty damn good "distance memory". Look at table tennis, karate or any other twitchy precision sport. Or musicians...

It all reminds me of the ffb max torque discussion. Big, heavy beginners will likely be the ones needing most max torque to not spin out when lifting off the throttle entering a corner in a MR car. Many pros hold their wheel lightly and are super sensitive to the slightest signal and react lightning quick. I'm somewhere in-between.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Yea dude. I went down the PSVR route about a year ago…knowingly though about the limited GTS content. Don’t regret it one bit!

As soon as ACC updates next week, I’m going to give that game all my screen time until GT7 comes out. I need to give it an honest shot to see how I like it. If all goes well, I’ll be in the market of building a PC just so I can do VR racing.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Well, to me and by my understanding of these two technologies, it always worked exactly like they are meant to work and like I described them.
And like you said of course a Spring can be seen as some sort of resistance, the Problem is that if this Spring is so light and almost not noticeable under your Feet, unless you have some super Sensitive Princess Feet with Silk like Skin, you barely won’t be able to feel that Resistance at all.
And therefore the whole Braking Process will be more of memorizing how much your Foot travels/ how much angle you apply to the Pedal.
So it actually does matter a lot yet again of course with the same results if executed properly and like intended.

And of course you brought up some good examples regarding “Distance Memory“ like Karate , Table Tennis and so on. But that’s all based by what ones Eyes perceive to see and how quick they react to it. Yet, they still have to use their Muscle Memory when punching/ striking back the Ball or throwing a Punch or a Kick.
I‘m doing Krav Maga since many many Years and never visited a Gym, but trust me, you don’t have to hit hard to hit Hard
It’s ALWAYS a mixture of both.
Like seeing an upcoming Corner when driving your Motorcycle for example. First you judge your Speed by Vision.
Then you use your physical Senses to appropriately make the Corner.

And yes one definitely does not need the brute Force that some Wheels put out.
I for example always had Max Torque on 3 and Sensitivity on 9 in GTS when I used to drive on my T300. It was enough to give me all Inputs I needed to drive fast and consistent. With Max torque on 4 and Sensitivity on 1 I was faster because I only felt what I needed to in order to drive fast.
But I somehow like these Canned Effects with which I could fool myself in believing it would add to that immersion.
And yes like you said, there’s absolutely no need to Death Grip on a Wheel or a Motorcycle Handlebar.
I prefer the “Play the Piano“ Grip .
Always light, smooth and Sensitive.
Gives me the best Feel of what my Car/Motorcycle does and wants me to do.
And I religiously drive the GR3 458 in GTS, which we all know will bite you hard if not treated like a Raw Egg
So it’s all about the right amount of Fidelity with your Hands on the Wheel and a bit of controlling the Force applied through your Feet to be fast, be it Virtual or in real Life.

Edit: Let’s not move too far off Topic

 

[CBH]

This is kinda my first entry to the world of simracing, so im not sure if shoes or socks are better. I guess i will start off with shoes, since that is what i usally do in a car.
Is there a possibillity to "save" settings, so i can swap fast between them? I got a son at 5years, and i belive i need to lower some of the settings if he is to try some racing.

I wear socks now on my Fanatec V3 pedals and the feeling is way way better than Go Kart shoes I used to wear, and thought that Kart shoes would be better but they are not.

 

[HugoTwoWheels]

I wear socks now on my Fanatec V3 pedals and the feeling is way way better than Go Kart shoes I used to wear, and thought that Kart shoes would be better but they are not.

I see you're no "princess footed" guy... I even took out the foam out of my CSL pedals - now it's adequately gentle to my feet. <3
(Yes, it felt like stomping air the first hour, but I quickly adapted.)

 

[CBH]

I see you're no "princess footed" guy... I even took out the foam out of my CSL pedals - now it's adequately gentle to my feet. <3
(Yes, it felt like stomping air the first hour, but I quickly adapted.)

Ha ha, and I think that socks are the way to go my friend, but when I am in my real car I wear shoes and a seatbelt but I don't wear a seatbelt when I am racing in my rig.

I think we should go back On Topic now, and talk about the GT DD Pro.

 

[evrybody]

i have the DD pro wheel from today, and i updated all the firmwires and i connected to my PS5.
but i cant use it in gt sport ? the wheel is in blue light ps mode.
my ps5 does seem to see the wheel because if i press the ps button then i go to the login screen
but once i start gt sport the wheel does nothing in the game ?
what im i doing wrong ?

 

[Pfei]

i have the DD pro wheel from today, and i updated all the firmwires and i connected to my PS5.
but i cant use it in gt sport ? the wheel is in blue light ps mode.
my ps5 does seem to see the wheel because if i press the ps button then i go to the login screen
but once i start gt sport the wheel does nothing in the game ?
what im i doing wrong ?

That's odd.

Did you calibrate it after updating the firmware?

Did you check in the driver to ensure all inputs are registering correctly?

Did you try a different tune with the tuning menu? Try using a custom setup (even if default) to see if it helps.

 

[evrybody]

drivers and firmwire are all up to date , de imputs i did on pc where all good too .
i see that only the ps button reacts on the ps5 , if i use the dpad stick on the wheel it should move left and right too ?
because it does not do that either

 

[Pfei]

drivers and firmwire are all up to date , de imputs i did on pc where all good too .
i see that only the ps button reacts on the ps5 , if i use the dpad stick on the wheel it should move left and right too ?
because it does not do that either

Yes, it should work as a controller. Try reattaching the rim, cycling through the compatibility modes, gaming on PC, etc... To see if that works. Beyond that I'm stumped.