Feasibility of Formula-type vehicles in Forza's physics

[Machate-man]

How would Formula vehicles fare in FM4's Physics?

As of now, we know that the forza series has included almost every level of racing (tarmac related, at least) that exists in our time. But how about formula cars?

Seeing from some LMP G-force readings, almost everything tops out at ~2G, at most 2.2G. In Formula (F1 in this case, F3000 or others may differ) racing, you often exceed 3G in most fast corners. I don't think that the Physics in FM4 can translate a F1 car's handling into a useable vehicle that can go round corners without some unusual characteristics. Downforce and Suspension values would need to be set to appropriate values, of which reach the 4-digit region. Also, I don't think any manufacturer would allow their car to be damaged to the extent that is possible in FM4. Finally, something with a Power/weight ratio of 2/1 would be insane to even attempt to drive, let alone race

Yes, I am aware that Codemasters has the F1 licence, but:

I prompted this as a "What if..." simply because I am curious. We all know that we wont be getting F1 anytime soon (from T10, at least).

Perhaps T10 could create their own F1~style car...

 

[hennessey86]

I am not 100 percent on this, but I have been told that Forza's graphics engine can not do open wheel.

 

[VXR]

If the engine could do open wheel, the solution could have been the Lotus Type 125 open wheeler.

 

[t.o.]

I am not 100 percent on this, but I have been told that Forza's graphics engine can not do open wheel.

It's not that the engine can't do it but they have problems animating/modelling suspension for openwheel cars from what I recall. Think that's why the Hummer seems to be missing some visible suspension parts when you get it out on the track.

 

[I'm Motarded]

Also, I don't think any manufacturer would allow their car to be damaged to the extent that is possible in FM4.

This doesn't really make much sense, many of the F1 manufacturers already allow the damage in fm4 to go ahead, nearly all of top teams in fact. Mercedes, McLaren, Ferrari and Lotus.

The reason Formula cars are not in forza is simply because of their open wheel nature and the graphics engine conflict. This is why there are no low downforce open-wheel cars like Caterhams etc.

 

[GTMail]

It's a want for FM5 because along with the statements above, the graphics engine also can't handle the suspension layout or movement dynamics. We know this because that old Ferrari racecar's(sorry forgot the name) suspension is completely blackened out in the rear.

 

[Machate-man]

I am not 100 percent on this, but I have been told that Forza's graphics engine can not do open wheel.

This doesn't really make much sense, many of the F1 manufacturers already allow the damage in fm4 to go ahead, nearly all of top teams in fact. Mercedes, McLaren, Ferrari and Lotus.

The reason Formula cars are not in forza is simply because of their open wheel nature and the graphics engine conflict. This is why there are no low downforce open-wheel cars like Caterhams etc.

It's a want for FM5 because along with the statements above, the graphics engine also can handle the suspension layout or movement dynamics. We know this because that old Ferrari racecar's(sorry forgot the name) suspension is completely blackened out in the rear.

So this is a matter of graphics, and not of physics, yes?
The suspension itself can be simulated dynamically, but not visually?

 

[Fezz_ST]

This doesn't really make much sense, many of the F1 manufacturers already allow the damage in fm4 to go ahead, nearly all of top teams in fact. Mercedes, McLaren, Ferrari and Lotus.

The reason Formula cars are not in forza is simply because of their open wheel nature and the graphics engine conflict. This is why there are no low downforce open-wheel cars like Caterhams etc.

That first part is not technically true, yes all cars have some form of damage, but not all the damage is as heavy on some cars than the rest, I bet you can't get a Ferrari to loose it's bumper

 

[GTMail]

So this is a matter of graphics, and not of physics, yes?
The suspension itself can be simulated dynamically, but not visually?

I'm almost positive it is a matter of both graphics and physics. Forza 4 was simply not made to handle F1 or any open wheel type car.

 

[t.o.]

I'm almost positive it is a matter of both graphics and physics. Forza 4 was simply not made to handle F1 or any open wheel type car.

I don't know if thats true. I really believe they said they could do it with the engine currently physics-wise but it was a matter of animating it that was the problem. I'm inclined to believe this because , I think Project CARS , or some other game is making a big deal out of currently implementing this and the way they speak of it is as it's no trivial feat to accomplish. Funny because it seems like it would be pretty simple.

 

[I'm Motarded]

That first part is not technically true, yes all cars have some form of damage, but not all the damage is as heavy on some cars than the rest, I bet you can't get a Ferrari to loose it's bumper

Are you saying Ferrari won't allow their cars to become as damaged in forza games as they do in forza games?

 

[Fezz_ST]

Yes that is what I am saying

 

[I'm Motarded]

That doesn't make any sense to me. Ferrari already allow their cars to be damaged in the game, if they didn't the cars wouldn't even scratch when crashed.

 

[t.o.]

That doesn't make any sense to me. Ferrari already allow their cars to be damaged in the game, if they didn't the cars wouldn't even scratch when crashed.

It really does make sense though. Each manufacturer has their own set a rules of what they will allow to happen to their cars in games. Ford, I believe stipulates they allow any damage but they wont allow intrusion into the driver area. So, in theory, you could have small blocks flying around the track in a Ford as long as it looks like that driver can get out the car, walk away and order a coffee at the local Starbucks unscathed.

Ferrari may indeed have something where they don't want certain parts of the cars to come off so , try like hell, you wont be able to get them off.

With this, Turn 10 has to try to find a way to do as much as they like within the confines of the various contracts.

Here's one for you, notice how when your car is on it's roof and it's pretty much game over for you yet the car is sliding around on it's roof? Nope, not a glitch or bad programming. Turn10 creating their own loophole. Some manufacturers refuse that their cars be so damaged that they won't move, how does Turn10 get around it? Car is upside down but it's still moving.

What I really would like from Turn 10 is a Forza HARDCORE. There are some manufactures that pretty much don't give a flying flip what you do to the cars in the game. Want to send a tire off hurtling down the road? Go for it! Want every bodypanel ripped from the car flying in the air like a junkyard exploded? Have at it! They should make a game with ONLY these manufacturers and give us the damage like we know they can.

 

[I'm Motarded]

Yes, I get all that, but the Ferrari and Ford do have damage in the game, how can these manufacturers say the don't want any less damage than they've already approved? It's already too late, it's already approved. The amount of damage is the same across all the Ferraris, how would adding open wheel cars change that.

Anyway, apart from wheels falling off, codemasters damage on all F1 cars including Ferrari is roughly on par with Forza in their F1 games, to me this is evidence that the cars in the OP wants in forza would fit in on roughly the same level that already exists, or it's at least open for negotiation. The only thing turn 10 has that codies does not is broken windows, there are no windows on F1 cars.

 

[saskman1950]

I'm sure the computer inside an XBox will handle anything thrown at it. GT5 has formula cars, I'm sure it's a matter of will. I've watched race replays, and they are smooth and flawless. So to me this is not a graphic playback issue.

 

[Fezz_ST]

I'm sure the computer inside an XBox will handle anything thrown at it. GT5 has formula cars, I'm sure it's a matter of will. I've watched race replays, and they are smooth and flawless. So to me this is not a graphic playback issue.

It is a graphic issue though, DG has stated before that the Graphics engine can't make the exposed suspension work like it should and look good at the same time.

Aren't all of GT5's open wheelers standard cars?

 

[espeed623]

Aren't all of GT5's open wheelers standard cars?

Not all of them. The Ferrari F2007 and F10 are both premium models.

 

[Fezz_ST]

Forgot about those, but the Shocks and Springs aren't exposed like most open wheeled road cars like Caterham, Westfield etc etc