Female Racing World Championship?

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I assume you guys have heard of women's sports right? Womens baskeball leagues. Women's hockey leagues, women's tennis, women's volleyball, women's only gyms? Are you ok with that or do we have to make all sports gender free?
Actually, when I first started reading this thread, that's exactly what I was thinking. For example, WNBA shouldn't be a thing, let them play with the guys. You already summed it up for me though, so I don't need to post anything more.
 
Seriously? i see the good and bad in this. Good as it will get female racing drivers a chance to show there stuff but why shouldn't they be able to do that with men? plus would the car they race be as powerful as f1 cars or less? if its less id think it was a message saying women can cope or handle f1 power.
 
There is actually a lot of merit to this and although it does bring up the whole debate of gender equality, I see another way to look at it.

A lot of other sports have Women's and Men's competitions, but more importantly we should look at the example golf has set. They have the PGA tour and then the LPGA for Females. Yes there is seperation of genders but the best Female golfers often jump into the PGA tour and have a go at beating the Men. So ideally, the idea of an all female series would encourage more females into racing and then eventually we could be more likely to have a greater pool of talent competing against each other which would then see a few females competing against each other, potentially for a spot on the Formula 1 grid!
Any woman that has tried to compete with men on the PGA Tour has been a complete failure. If you've ever been to a PGA event and seen Jack Nicklaus, Greg Norman or Tiger Woods drive a ball, then go to an LPGA event it'll make perfect sense as to why that is the case.
 
Any woman that has tried to compete with men on the PGA Tour has been a complete failure. If you've ever been to a PGA event and seen Jack Nicklaus, Greg Norman or Tiger Woods drive a ball, then go to an LPGA event it'll make perfect sense as to why that is the case.

Yeah, i do understand my point had its flaws, but I can understand Bernie's thinking and maybe the model might work a lot better in Motorsport than what it does in Golf :)
 
It's a great idea! - let's have a world championship for 'coloureds' too whilst we're at this whole equality thing.

And one for just Americans. All-Americans are included, but only Americans.
 
Yeah, i do understand my point had its flaws, but I can understand Bernie's thinking and maybe the model might work a lot better in Motorsport than what it does in Golf :)
Bernie is just thinking about making money, nothing wrong with that.:lol:

There is already a championship just for Americans. They realised they could only turn left and called it NASCAR. ;)
A couple of times a year they force them to go both ways:sly:
 
There is already a championship just for Americans. They realised they could only turn left and called it NASCAR. ;)

No, we invited an Australian and he was too good, so we sent him packing.
 
I assume you guys have heard of women's sports right? Womens baskeball leagues. Women's hockey leagues, women's tennis, women's volleyball, women's only gyms? Are you ok with that or do we have to make all sports gender free?

There are valid reasons for separating some sports by gender for simple reasons of genetics. On average men are bigger and stronger than women, and when you get to the highest levels where only the biggest and strongest compete then the disparity is even higher. Some sports are simply unfair without segregating males and females, just as some sports are unfair if you don't have age brackets in children's leagues. No ten year old is going to play rugby if they have to compete against the under-18s, they'll just get stomped.

It's simply a way of recognising physical realities and trying to mitigate their impact.

If you want to argue that the physical component of F1 is so high that females are incapable of competing equally and therefore need a series dedicated to them, then I'm listening for your justifications.

But as far as I can tell, while F1 drivers have to be strong and have great endurance, the level at which they have to perform doesn't seem beyond that of your average high level female athlete. Add the fact that being a smaller driver is actually an advantage, and the only real reason that I can see for females not being in F1 is that there aren't any female drivers that are fast enough.

Having a females only racing series might do good things for female participation in motorsport in general, but I doubt it'll do much of anything to get females into F1, at least not short term. In 20+ years when a new generation of drivers comes through, maybe.

I maintain that most F1 teams would fall over themselves to get a competent female driver, because the PR would be immense. Commentators would be talking about her all season, you'd get lots of air time, tons of media interviews and PR opportunities. If there was a man and a woman who were in all other respects equal drivers, I strongly suspect that most teams would pick the woman simply based on the intangibles that she would bring.

But it doesn't happen. Because there are no female drivers that are good enough to displace or equal any of the male drivers who are there on merit. (I'm willing to concede that there are probably some pay drivers that suck enough that they could be replaced, but even that's debatable.)

The reason there aren't female drivers in F1 is that there are no female drivers that are good enough. There is no quick fix for this. Starting a women's only racing series doesn't help, if anything it hinders progress because now you have 20+ high level seats for women for which they have far less competition. Giving people handouts is not how you promote them to strive for excellence. Any woman who would be good enough to be in F1 won't need this, they'll be making their impact in the standard series because they're that good.
 
All this would do is test to see if Female participation can equal Female viewership.


And tbh the current ratio of Female to Male drivers would be closer to 50 to 1 and you can't say Viewership of racing in general would resemble this.

Like basically all catagories of Motorsport, if it makes financial Sense it will work as a series, regardless of how or what it does to achieve it.

If a Handout is your point in why you don't like it then maybe you should open your eyes to the big picture in racing and realize basically the entire operation of Motorsport is and has been one since the day someone came to a raceday with more money then others looking for a drive.
 
No, we invited an Australian and he was too good, so we sent him packing.

Yeah he was good on road courses, that was about it... lol

All this would do is test to see if Female participation can equal Female viewership.


And tbh the current ratio of Female to Male drivers would be closer to 50 to 1 and you can't say Viewership of racing in general would resemble this.

Like basically all catagories of Motorsport, if it makes financial Sense it will work as a series, regardless of how or what it does to achieve it.

If a Handout is your point in why you don't like it then maybe you should open your eyes to the big picture in racing and realize basically the entire operation of Motorsport is and has been one since the day someone came to a raceday with more money then others looking for a drive.

Yeah, there is valid arguments for and against this idea. But I do like it, if it does encourage greater participation in motorsport. :)
 
The reason there aren't female drivers in F1 is that there are no female drivers that are good enough.

As much as I do agree with many of your arguments, the conclusion of your post I can not share. Resuming the absence of female drivers in F1 racing seats on the sole performance ground eludes the fact that there is a whole lotta other contingencies than raw pace to end up behind the wheel of one of these. Your conclusion could only be validated (IMHO) whenever all the other aspects off the chain where indeed putting women on equal terms, and they hardly are (Team support, young driver programs, junior team policies, structural and financial backing,...). Changing fundamental mentalities (who expand well beyond the confines of motorsports) is a massive task, and even with an appropriate solution (that I ignore) and with the required amount of willpower, it could take up to a decade to see meaningful results.

At this point there sure is some PR incentive for the teams, what may explain why the woman presence in F1 is, today, at best, cosmetic. But let’s imagine (stupid proposition ahead) that teams would be free of testing mileage constrain as long as it is performed by female drivers, chances are we could see a new generation of F1 drivers in a near future.
 
Isn't or wasn't there the Panoz series with female only racers? What about roller Derby?

Women are either going to to sign up or not. Simple as that.
 
There are valid reasons for separating some sports by gender for simple reasons of genetics. On average men are bigger and stronger than women, and when you get to the highest levels where only the biggest and strongest compete then the disparity is even higher. Some sports are simply unfair without segregating males and females, just as some sports are unfair if you don't have age brackets in children's leagues. No ten year old is going to play rugby if they have to compete against the under-18s, they'll just get stomped.

It's simply a way of recognising physical realities and trying to mitigate their impact.

If you want to argue that the physical component of F1 is so high that females are incapable of competing equally and therefore need a series dedicated to them, then I'm listening for your justifications.

But as far as I can tell, while F1 drivers have to be strong and have great endurance, the level at which they have to perform doesn't seem beyond that of your average high level female athlete. Add the fact that being a smaller driver is actually an advantage, and the only real reason that I can see for females not being in F1 is that there aren't any female drivers that are fast enough.

Having a females only racing series might do good things for female participation in motorsport in general, but I doubt it'll do much of anything to get females into F1, at least not short term. In 20+ years when a new generation of drivers comes through, maybe.

I maintain that most F1 teams would fall over themselves to get a competent female driver, because the PR would be immense. Commentators would be talking about her all season, you'd get lots of air time, tons of media interviews and PR opportunities. If there was a man and a woman who were in all other respects equal drivers, I strongly suspect that most teams would pick the woman simply based on the intangibles that she would bring.

But it doesn't happen. Because there are no female drivers that are good enough to displace or equal any of the male drivers who are there on merit. (I'm willing to concede that there are probably some pay drivers that suck enough that they could be replaced, but even that's debatable.)

The reason there aren't female drivers in F1 is that there are no female drivers that are good enough. There is no quick fix for this. Starting a women's only racing series doesn't help, if anything it hinders progress because now you have 20+ high level seats for women for which they have far less competition. Giving people handouts is not how you promote them to strive for excellence. Any woman who would be good enough to be in F1 won't need this, they'll be making their impact in the standard series because they're that good.

I agree. There needs to be a solid base of female drivers from which a few exceptionally fast drivers may emerge. A female-only series might be a good initiative at a junior level, to specifically recruit girls into the world of motorsport, but at senior level I think the impact of female drivers in terms of creating role models and inspiration is greater if they compete in the same series as the male drivers.

In folkracing in Sweden there's quite a few female drivers and a couple of female drivers have found their way to the STCC as well. There are actually more women than princes competing in the STCC now :D
It's still a long way to get to a somewhat equal representation but it's a start at least.

 
I assume you guys have heard of women's sports right? Womens baskeball leagues. Women's hockey leagues, women's tennis, women's volleyball, women's only gyms? Are you ok with that or do we have to make all sports gender free?
Yes. I've also heard that there are physical reasons behind each one of them. Motorsport is hardly the same thing as 100m sprint or NHL where it's obvious that women can't beat larger and technically better men. If they can compete on the same level there's no need for separation. It wouldn't be right to make women only presidential election, without actually giving full presidential rights to the woman who wins it, but just saying that you can now take part in the real presidential election, even though it's clear that a woman could easily be just as good president as a man. The idea of women only F1 championship is basically the same thing.
 
This seems appropriate:

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I'll get me coat.
 
Yes. I've also heard that there are physical reasons behind each one of them. Motorsport is hardly the same thing as 100m sprint or NHL where it's obvious that women can't beat larger and technically better men. If they can compete on the same level there's no need for separation. It wouldn't be right to make women only presidential election, without actually giving full presidential rights to the woman who wins it, but just saying that you can now take part in the real presidential election, even though it's clear that a woman could easily be just as good president as a man. The idea of women only F1 championship is basically the same thing.
"There is no other sport as physically demanding as Formula One," says Renault driver Heikki Kovalainen.
 
As much as I do agree with many of your arguments, the conclusion of your post I can not share. Resuming the absence of female drivers in F1 racing seats on the sole performance ground eludes the fact that there is a whole lotta other contingencies than raw pace to end up behind the wheel of one of these. Your conclusion could only be validated (IMHO) whenever all the other aspects off the chain where indeed putting women on equal terms, and they hardly are (Team support, young driver programs, junior team policies, structural and financial backing,...). Changing fundamental mentalities (who expand well beyond the confines of motorsports) is a massive task, and even with an appropriate solution (that I ignore) and with the required amount of willpower, it could take up to a decade to see meaningful results.

I agree that there's a certain amount of Formula 1 being an old boys club. And you're right that there's all sorts of other obstacles in the way of getting into F1 as well.

But I think that if Lewis-Hamilton-with-breasts existed teams would be elbowing each other out of the way to sign her. That driver does not exist. There is not a female driver that I'm aware of that could be anything like the next Vettel/Hamilton/Alonso.

It's possible that there's a Nico-Hulkenburg-with-breasts that is getting shafted out of a drive because of the old boys club politics, but I'm dubious. I'm pretty sure the midfield teams would be all over that as well.

It's fairly likely that there's a Max-Chilton-with-breasts that is getting shafted out of a drive, because at that end of the grid it's all about how much money you bring, and the money game is still very much an old boys club. Look at Bernie. :rolleyes:

But then those are mostly the guys that everyone makes fun of for not really belonging in F1 in the first place, and only being there because Daddy greased enough palms. Sure, a woman might be able to get into F1 in the same way but it would hardly mean anything. The point is to have women in F1 on merit, if we just wanted any women in F1 we could do it tomorrow.


Now read where he goes on to describe the specifics of what an F1 driver requires, and point out the parts where a female would be unable to perform at an acceptable level.
 
Anyone remember Sarah Fisher? And on the NASCAR note now you have little miss Go Daddy(her little cute self), but it seems the guys have more fun spinning her out.

Oh and dont say anyone can drive a NASCAR car, look a Juan Pablo, never had a NASCAR win, leaves NASCAR, goes back to INDY Cart and wins his first race.
 
And your point is what... that women are therefore unable to compete? I'm pretty sure that HK is talking about endurance, I can't think of the last time that World's Strongest Man was shoe-horned into an F1 car...
I see no problem with creating the series. The counter to my argument is that women are physically capable of driving a racecar the same as men and therefore shouldn't have their own series. My counter to that is that F1 is one of the most physically demanding sports in the world and there is a possibility that the physical differences between men and women might come into play.

But IMO, I really don't care if there is a physical reason a woman can compete in F1 or not. Motor racing is not a government sponsored event, so if Bernie or anyone else wants to throw private money at women to get them racing, I see no problem at all with it, no one is forced to participate. It could lead to a whole series of feeder leagues for women only, giving them a chance to compete and show their talent with someone else paying the freight. At any time if they want to compete against men and have the talent to do so, they are also free to do that. I see this as an added opportunity, without taking anything away from anyone.
 
I assume you guys have heard of women's sports right? Womens baskeball leagues. Women's hockey leagues, women's tennis, women's volleyball, women's only gyms? Are you ok with that or do we have to make all sports gender free?

Due to the realities of biology, women have a significant disadvantage to men in many fields of athletics, so, for much the same reason that we have paralympic sports so that those with disabilities can compete at a top level, we have classes for women so that women can compete at a top level. Obviously, in a better world Carmelita Jeter would be able to run just as fast as Usain Bolt; but we have to accept that's not the case and instead campaign for the media to give women athletes equal billing instead.

Motor racing is a sport where in theory being a woman should not provide a significant handicap to one's ability. Instead the lack of women competing can be traced back to societal gender norms dictating that boys are far more likely than girls to a) want to be a racing driver, and b) believe they can become one.

Although certain interests are for whatever reason more likely to pique the male brain than the female brain (and vice versa), from my experience there are more than enough women in the world who perhaps might have taken up karting as a kid if they had more role models to look up to, rather than being subconsciously being sent the message that motor racing is "a man's world" that they won't succeed in.

Women's gyms exist because sadly there are too many creeps in the world and some women can't feel comfortable exercising or whatever around strange men.
 
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