FFB 1.12 Update

  • Thread starter DRambo
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eran0004
10 and 10.

Here is what I'm thinking:

View attachment 225540
Basically the wheel can't produce more torque than the full effect, which prior to 1.12 came early in comparison to now. That means that a lot of time you had a lot of torque from the wheel, but because it was already at or near max it couldn't increase more so when the "tyre load" (can't think of a better name, but it's of course suspension, weight shift and everything else that affects the force feedback strength) increases you don't notice much or any ffb change.

With 1.12 I've noticed that ffb is generally weaker, but also that it gets stronger as "tyre load" increases. It takes a lot of "tyre load" to get to max torque, and there's only really one or two corners on Circuito de la Sierra where it happens for me (Ferrari 458, SH tyres): It's the slow corners with a bit of banking where I'm also braking while cornering.

I don't know if it's actually true or if it's just a trick of the mind, but this is how it appears to me anyway.

If it is true, then maybe a possible fix could be to let every user draw their own wheel torque curve, much like you can draw exposure curves in photoshop, or level curves in audio programmes...
Click to expand...
this I a very good explanation:)
 
So if I get this correctly; the update removed the dead zone (prevalent in my DFGT) but reduced the overall force feedback. This is what it seems like to me. Is this what everyone is saying?
 
Weird. I'm enjoying the changes to be honest. Fanatec GT3 RS (which basically apes a G25) and it feels far closer to PC sims. Decent resistance and loving the increased understeer chatter. Feels less like the steering rack is full of treacle and more like a road car with power steering. Modern cars are pretty steering-light unless they are under heavy cornering load. Obviously I can't comment on using a proper G25/27.
 
eran0004
10 and 10.

Here is what I'm thinking:

View attachment 225540
Basically the wheel can't produce more torque than the full effect, which prior to 1.12 came early in comparison to now. That means that a lot of time you had a lot of torque from the wheel, but because it was already at or near max it couldn't increase more so when the "tyre load" (can't think of a better name, but it's of course suspension, weight shift and everything else that affects the force feedback strength) increases you don't notice much or any ffb change.

With 1.12 I've noticed that ffb is generally weaker, but also that it gets stronger as "tyre load" increases. It takes a lot of "tyre load" to get to max torque, and there's only really one or two corners on Circuito de la Sierra where it happens for me (Ferrari 458, SH tyres): It's the slow corners with a bit of banking where I'm also braking while cornering.

I don't know if it's actually true or if it's just a trick of the mind, but this is how it appears to me anyway.

If it is true, then maybe a possible fix could be to let every user draw their own wheel torque curve, much like you can draw exposure curves in photoshop, or level curves in audio programmes...
Click to expand...

I think this is it!!! Also, with this update, it actually increase quality (not quantity) of the FFB so people who use low FFB settings (2-3) prior to the update appreciate this update much more while people use higher FFB settings (7-10) who run it near max torque all the times suddenly see this change and think it is unnatural. I'm not sure if this is attributable to the capacity of the motors in the wheels. As of now, we know that the motors need more force (quantity).

I would use the analogy screen resolution. I do think we have good resolution (quality) but the screen size here is too small (quantity) to play with.
 
The thing people need to do now is mess with the settings before getting all pissed off and swearing to stop playing GT6 if this isn't reversed.

I think a lot of people are guessing that setting both sliders to 10 is the same thing as setting the FFB to 10 before the patch. That's not the case at all.

The problem is the "torque" setting is a damper or spring effect and when you have too much of it, you lose out on all the effects we're used to feeling.

Try setting the torque to 1, and center sensitivity to 10. Mess around with the settings. I think the center setting should be high but if you have a DFGT like me, I think the torque settings should definitely be low. Like 1-5 low.

I know it's a huge pain in the ass for something that was never a problem before this patch, but it's not the end of the world either

I'm a DFGT user and I find that keeping the torque setting low is best but I'm pretty sure it's the same for anyone because too much damper or spring is never a good thing on any wheel.
 
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KiroKai
Could you speak for yourself? And stop trying to educate PD?

Now, if you could also stop making figures up, and change your suggestion to give us the option to increase it back to previous strength levels, I might agree with your comment.
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So clearly me being experienced in racing cars, karts and single seaters does not know how its meant to be compared to an average gamer.

It was more realistic previously, although the level detail you could feel within the road what it is now is much greater.

All we need now is more force feedback.
 
I quiet like that new thing.
But i'm not in the mood to change AGAIN my driving style and everything.
 
ccaranna
So if I get this correctly; the update removed the dead zone (prevalent in my DFGT) but reduced the overall force feedback. This is what it seems like to me. Is this what everyone is saying?
Click to expand...
No. The details of force feedback are fine. It's hard to explain, but when I grab my wheel now there is a severe reduction in friction when I turn my wheel from side to side. If I hit bumps in the road or drive over the rumblestrip my wheel vibrates just fine. In fact, it might even be a little more sensitive, which is nice. The problem is the way the wheel feels in my hands is terrible -- compared to pre 1.12 update. This is for me and my DFGT. I'm not saying everyone agrees with this assessment, but many do.
 
ZedMan1996
So clearly me being experienced in racing cars, karts and single seaters does not know how its meant to be compared to an average gamer.

It was more realistic previously.
Click to expand...

Well you didn't mention any of your own experience/basis of judgement in your comment. I would have liked that rather than going on about estimated amounts of wheel users (if anyone, PD will know how many players are affected).

Having your opinion is fine but you state it like you speak for every wheel user which is simply not true. Just look at this thread, not everyone completely dislikes the changes, some welcome them. Most think that the FFB currently feels too weak, but the feedback has been changed in a lot of ways, not only strength. You seem to suggest to revert every change and keep it how it was.
 
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KiroKai
Well you didn't mention any of your own experience/base of judgement in your comment. I would have liked that rather than going on about estimated amounts of wheel users (if anyone, PD will know how many players are affected).
Click to expand...

Bit of a pointless thing to argue about :/

And I was just saying that the force feedback in real life is actually very strong especially in single seaters.
 
Yes. My car setups have to be altered to match FFB update.. I like to have a more tight steering. I have the GT steering wheel. And yes I believe they are trying to match new steering wheels. I heard the ts300 wheel has very high damping. Also I run torque at 9 and the other setting at 10. Feel different but it is something to get use to. I am slightly disappointed at new update. It seems a step forward. And small steps back as well. Keep it posted for setups with with wheel guys!!
 
DRambo
Mr Badger, I have just tried PD Shifter Kart and I can say that it feels exactly the same as before update. Weight of wheel does not seem to have changed, irrespective of the fft/ffs settings. It's heavy, but not as heavy as a real Kart, but the difference is there when compared to a road car.
Click to expand...

I said real life mate... In reality, the world outside of windows, yeah, that place. ;) . Real life Karts are horrible to try and steer at slow speeds. You'll strain your shoulder muscles trying to do hairpins in them. It makes me wonder how people race them competitively in all honesty. The only way I can make an equivalent for you to understand is if you set the FFB in GT6 to about 70 instead of 10. That's how a real kart feels.

Morphisor
As far as I am aware virtually all modern racing categories employ power steering.
Click to expand...

Even if they did I can guarantee they aren't easy things to steer with the fat tyres, high downforce, limited steering angle and whatever else is involved with them. I'd sooner reverse-parallel park a Toyota Yaris than try to drive a racing car at road speeds to the local shop...


FFB needs to be set high for these kinds of games. I know it's all personal preference to some but the max settings wouldn't be there if they weren't meant to be used.

I have found that with some cars in the game the feeling is much better, like my little LCC Rocket that's set up to Formula Ford regulations, that thing is a pig to drive around slow corners now. But in comparison you have the new Nismo GT-R and that's like pointing a bar of soap at an apex... It's too disjointed.
 
332i
G27

Lock 450
Controller sense 6
Strength 5
Ffb sensitivity 9 or 10

Perfect. I love the new FFB.
Click to expand...

i also have a G27. Yet when i go to start > steering controller > steering characteristics > i show only these options

steering type. Amateur professional simulation
Power Assisted Steering off on
force feedback max torque a range from 1 - 10
force feedback sensitivity a range from 1 - 10

where do you find, controller sense and strength ?
 
SGETI
i also have a G27. Yet when i go to start > steering controller > steering characteristics > i show only these options

steering type. Amateur professional simulation
Power Assisted Steering off on
force feedback max torque a range from 1 - 10
force feedback sensitivity a range from 1 - 10

where do you find, controller sense and strength ?
Click to expand...

Strength = torque
Controller sensitivity is the slider that goes from -2 to 7.
 
Johnnypenso
Has anyone done any testing with same car + different tires?
Click to expand...

I have done this at Bathurst, with RS down to CH with the Nismo 2014 GTR, Stealth 2012 GTR and GT3 GTR all with different compounds and the strength/resistance for me and my G25 is still awful. I can use my index finger and thumb to get the cars up, over and then down the mountain on T/S 10/10 settings (and yes, I tested multiple configurations of these settings to see if it had some anomaly with the settings hiding there)
 
eran0004
Maybe they could at least add an option to use the old settings?
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👍 Completely agree. Somebody please put this in the suggestion forums if it is not already there!
 
isn't it silly to have max settings so weak? (g25 etc). I mean if they made the FFB available to be strong to cater to those who like it strong, and weak to cater to those who like it weak then we wouldn't need to have this discussion in the first place. The fact that it must be all or nothing is insane. I speak strictly as a g25 user and hope its simply programming that needs adjustment.
 
This FFB change really highlights GT's weakness in communication IMO. Instead of leaving us guessing they could have produced a short YouTube video that explained what the changes meant, why they did it, how it affects gameplay and if it's a work in progress to be updated again in the near future. Instead we're left guessing as to what is going on and why.
 
TomBrady
In my opinion Torque- 4, Center Sensitivity- 10
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Yep, just a matter of knowing what settings to try. I figured it was like the old FFB settings. More=more!

Simply trying it on those settings made a world of difference. That lost dead feel is diminished considerably. It's a lighter feel for sure but one I can adjust too easily. Much smoother too.
 
I've always had my G27 on the weakest setting (off and 1, I think) .. I tried all the different combos I can get with the new settings. The closest is 3/4 and 5 respectively. But still feels different in a bad way for me. :nervous: :( 👎 ..
💡 Should have an option weather to use the old or new settings.
 
Well, after reading with some dread I tried this last night eventually. I intially had a corrupt update file that left me in a failed to install loop. Anyhow, I race online Tuesday nights with a group and I found the FFB much better. You can catch slides, get more info about understeer especially in FF cars, and generally it improved how I perceived the driving to be. The others that use wheels (DFGT or G25 mainly) also agreed that although different the new settings had far more use and were much more communicative.

That's just my two pennies worth.
 
CSW users - if you had relatively high FFB before, go into your wheel settings and increase "For" above 100. From the CSW manual: Please do only set these values higher than 100% if the Force Feedback effects are clearly not strong enough and weaker in comparison to other games. When the game sends full effects and the wheel is set to 100% then the device will work on its power limit. Pushing up one value to a very high number or even raising multiple values will result in higher load on the motors and increased heat development.

Since the motor loads were clearly higher prior to the 1.12 update, this should mean the motors won't be working any harder now than they were before. I'm trying to fine tune mine now, but with For at 140 and torque at 10, the resistance feels similar to what I had before (7). That's only based on about 3 minutes of track time though...

I'm going to keep playing with the feedback fine tuners over the next few days until I'm happy, but for a quick reminder, if you want to try do the same, these settings are:

FOR / SPR / DPR (default = 100)
These Force Feedback modifiers give you the ability to change the Force Feedback Signals of a game. In theory there are 3 types of signals which a game can send: Force (pushes the wheel into a special direction), sping (pulls the wheel towards the center) and damper (creates friction). Not every game uses all types of effects and some games even use only one type to create all different feelings. Using your tuning menu in the CSW you can increase or reduce these different effects individually.

I'm not planning on changing any of the other settings at this point, although with the new "sensitivity" option I might also change / fine tune the lock angle, deadzone, and linearity at some point. Right now I just want m FFB back.

Also, don't forget that you can save 5 different setups, so I'd suggest keeping your old one stored for reference.
 
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