FFB 1.12 Update

[TomBrady]

This is how i would describe the sensation I feel while turning with my DFGT. In other threads I described it as "when I take a turn in a Mid-Engine Rear Wheel Drive car my wheel still feels more like a Front Wheel Drive Front Engine car that's slightly plowing..." It has that little skip, skip, skip sensation to it.

It seems to me, from reading FFB reports in several threads, that G27 users have mixed feelings on the new FFB settings. Some love it, some hate it. With the DFGT, however, it seems the vast majority are disappointed in the new FFB settings.

I'm currently using 8 & 10 as my settings and it does feel better than the default settings, but it still feels dead for the first few degrees of turning. You know how when you were driving a fairly high powered car (pre 1.12 update) and you caught a little bit of air the steering wheel felt incredibly light because the tires were off the ground for a second. That's kind of how the wheel feels all the time now!

I'm sure it's something we will just have to get used to.

I think it would be helpful if people posted their settings when they comment in here.

Turn down the torque setting mate. Believe me it helps. With the DFGT, I think 1 feels best. 8's way too high in my opinion.

 

[will-i-am]

This is how i would describe the sensation I feel while turning with my DFGT. In other threads I described it as "when I take a turn in a Mid-Engine Rear Wheel Drive car my wheel still feels more like a Front Wheel Drive Front Engine car that's slightly plowing..." It has that little skip, skip, skip sensation to it.

It seems to me, from reading FFB reports in several threads, that G27 users have mixed feelings on the new FFB settings. Some love it, some hate it. With the DFGT, however, it seems the vast majority are disappointed in the new FFB settings.

I'm currently using 8 & 10 as my settings and it does feel better than the default settings, but it still feels dead for the first few degrees of turning. You know how when you were driving a fairly high powered car (pre 1.12 update) and you caught a little bit of air the steering wheel felt incredibly light because the tires were off the ground for a second. That's kind of how the wheel feels all the time now!

I'm sure it's something we will just have to get used to.

I think it would be helpful if people posted their settings when they comment in here.

Have the same feeling for the DFGT. Haven't messed with the setting yet though

 

[skazz]

Is the torque setting to tell the game how much torque to generate, or to tell the game what the maximum torque capability of your wheel is?

 

[noseknows36]

I get confused by people saying this - 10 or x high setting felt realistic, because of the resistance. You guys with g27s that have been cranked up were missing out on quality DFB since 1.09/.10.

An electric motor is only capabable of so much, like a stereo speaker. Resistance ≠ real feeling. Anything over 5 or 6 on a g27 pre 1.12 was just overloading the motors. They were sending everything as one signal. Resistance and sensitivy to FFb should have been seperate from the beginning. The wheel motors need resistance all the time. Ffb is intermittent. Resistance takes precedent. Ffb is applied to that. The higher the number/old FFB slider setting from 1.11 and previous, the more FFB you were getting clipped out. Just like turning a speaker up past it's capabilities. It breaks up and you lose quality. They'll still be loud, but they'll sound horrendous. In this case, the resistance will still be there, like the sound level of the crackling speakers, but it is being pushed to it's ceiling. It is like splitting a stream of water. You can send it all down one path or another, try to distribute it correctly, etc.

I've had my G27 on setting 1, sometimes 2...probably since the spring or so. April or may I think - as soon as I heard about clipping and tested it. I wouldn't even know/don't remember the difference between 1 and 10 at this point. All I care is that it is stiff enough and I feel everything possible or damn near it.

I also run my wheel on 450 lock. So, it is essentially multiplying everything by two for me.

Anyone with a g25 or g27 should be on no more than 670* lock settings. You'll get just as much detail and far more resistance. It is noticeable, but not a massive difference on 670. But it is also much better and accurate at 670* lock. 450* lock is perfect. To me at least.

I could never understand people running g25/27 on ffb10. You could hardly move the wheel. All the subtleness and feeling was removed. I used mine on ffb3 which seemed to give a good weight and feeling for almost all cars.

I run my G27 on FFB 3 as I share the same sentiments as both of you. I haven't been able to test the wheel with the new update yet, but I was wondering what FFB settings are you guys running your wheels on now post-update? It would be nice to hear what settings you guys are currently running on and how it feels.

 

[mr_lab_rat]

Ok, well my commuter car is an e46, coincidentally lol. Can easily turn wheel at a stop with my pinky. That's not with the crappy boosted '01 steering rack either. 2005 zcp rack.

My car is a bit modified so the steering is a bit heavier than stock. It looks like you are a BMW fan so I think you would like it - GTP_WRS'ers and their ride...

Anyway, there is no point arguing about what's more realistic. There is pretty good chance you are right and it should be this light. Maybe I was using the higher force feedback to compensate for real life G forces.
The other problem is that my old DFP only has 900 or 200 settings. I think if I had a G27 I could make it work with 450 deg..
Either PD will make a patch to fix this issue for old wheels or I'll get a new one. I'm not even mad at PD/Sony, they can't keep supporting old wheels forever.

 

[djslofstra]

I love the new Force Feedback Engine. It is lighter, though more sensitive. I set the FF torque to 6 and the sensitivity to 10. I noticed that if I use a car with very soft suspension, it will steer much more lightly. With a car with harder suspension, it will steer much stronger. I love it!
It is much more like it is in a real car.

 

[donpost]

Even at 10/10 on the Logitech DFGT the FFB is much weaker than before the patch (where I had it set to 4). However, all that's really gone is that super powerful centring spring feeling, all the detail is there. I actually find myself going a bit quicker because its easier to steer smoothly now.

 

[SmellyWallrus]

This is by far the worst FFB change ever!!!

I cant feel the car properly, I used to have FFB on 10 on my G27, I have tried multiple combinations, its horrendous.

The dead zone is the worst, its like driving in jelly heading down a straight. I now have to turn the wheel further to achieve the same turn of the corner. Very very very weak.

If this doesnt get fixed im binning the game, I can not stand this poor feeling.

 

[super_gt]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-dead-zone-at-the-centre-of-the-wheel.306595/
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/stronger-wheel-force-feedback.298464/

 

[GTAndy36]

Basically, everyone who was running their wheels on FFB '10' are going to be completely annoyed. However, '10' isn't/wasn't a realistic setting anyway.

Getting the FFB to a realistic setting now with the DFGT is very difficult now though. Especially as underpowered cars have much lighter steering in comparison to race cars. Realistic? Yes. But the DFGT and all older Logitech wheels can't really simulate what the game is asking of it.

 

[Hastatus]

I wish they had allowed us the option of using "classic mode". At first I thought maybe it was the FT1; then I thought it was may wheel giving out...will have to relearn the feel of it.

 

[Fender_st]

I've changed my mind.

FF is weaker than before BUT I love feeling ALL those effects I missed before.

So now, my G25 ff is set to 10 and Torque 2 (preventing "dancing centre zone" effect).

I hope to see more strenght in the future, but I definitely like this new ff.

 

[grog]

Basically, everyone who was running their wheels on FFB '10' are going to be completely annoyed. However, '10' isn't/wasn't a realistic setting anyway.

I think what people are missing here is that we just need to be comfortable with our wheels, Its not all about realism with FFB. Lets face it FFB is not realistic at all (wheels dont rumble like the FFB does), but its all we have to relay information to us in games. The most important thing is that we should be comfortable with our setup regardless of whether we prefer a light or strong steering feel.

So as odd as it sounds I think realism should be left out of this discussion.

 

[ZedMan1996]

I use a G25 and even when adjusting ffb setting 10 and 10, the feel is very weak.

I have tried different classes of cars and it is clear that PD have tried to make the ffb differentiate between type of car/tyres.

Even at 10, in road cars, the ffb feels too weak.

In low downforce racing cars there is more feel.

In the Sena Lotus, it is about the same as a road car. Is this correct? I would have guessed that the steering in a F1 car from that era would be heavy.

I tried the Sauber C9 and the ffb is very strong. Perhaps the same with all prototypes?

On final point; if you change the power steering setting on or off, it does not seem to make any difference.

My conclusions: More variance between different classes of cars, but with some, it's too light.

UPADTE:

The more I use different cars, the more it makes sense.

Just ran McLaren F1 on CS. Weighty feel. ffb5 ffbs 7. Steering very precise and deadzone less noticable.

Celica SS-11 '97 cs tyres. feels a little light but not too much. i used to drive one and the steering was light.

All I can say to those who are concerned, don't make a judgement based on your first impressions. I suspect that those with the latest Thrustmaster wheels and others more sophisticated than my old G25 might find it rather good.

UPDATE 2:

Renault Clio RS '11 (cs). It feels as thought there has been more development that just changes in ffb weight. In a low to mid-speed corner in the Clio, if you push the throttle too hard, as the car understeers, you feel a distinct lightening of the wheel and the slip of the tyres. This was certainly not there before, and was a constant criticism of mine in relation to understeer. Before, the wheel kept its weight and did not give the feel of front wheel drive understeer.

Ferrari Enzo. Much more neutral now. More front end grip. More likely to oversteer out of a corner than understeer. Finding mr cars much more stable under braking and easier to control oversteer during braking.

BRAKING

Off topic a bit, but braking feels more intuitive. I use ABS set at 0. There seems to be more feel and you can adjust braking more through the braking phase. Maybe I'm feeling things that aren't there?????

I can confirm from experiance that racing cars have a heavy steering, even single seaters from today such as F3.

And no don't go thinking that heavy steering makes racedrivers more tired - it doesn't.

But I have no tested this update yet with my G27.

But according to these comments, G27 owners are having the shortest straw here, apparently its as bad as having it set to 1 before.

This is NOT the case in any real racing car, steering is heavy and its advantageous to have heavy steering for a much better feel for the road.

We do need to send complaint/demand to PD that they should improve the heaviness of the steering.

 

[cjr3559]

The new FFB settings are kind of perplexing. I understand that different cars on differing tires have unique steering characteristics, but I wish PD would give us baseline steering control setting. I have a DFGT, and the default settings of Torque=10 and Force Feedback Sensitivity=8 were way too free/loose compared to version 1.11 and prior. I'm still getting used to the new settings, but I think TomBrady is correct that a low Torque and high FFS settings stiffens the steering response. FWIW, I have my 'Controller Steering Sensitivity' set to '0'. PD's ambiguous steering settings in 1.12 remind me of how the TC and ABS settings are set at '5' and '1' for every car, which doesn't seem right (in my mind).

 

[super_gt]

I deleted all updates and bring back 1.00 version,no more crapy experimental updates for me,this is last GT which I play no more 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

 

[Jonathan777]

I'm using a DFpro (always ran it on simulation mode and ff7) and have to say it feels like it's a whole new steering system they implemented.
Also feel like i have to turn further to get Same steering as prior to 1.12.
And i can believe steering these days feels quite light on racing cars but This light?! It sure would surprise me cause the resistance really is lowlowlow..

 

[TCSdisable]

FFB Torque 3 and FFB Sensitivity 8

Using my Good old Driving Force Pro.

During reading this post I think my arms are too weak.
But this FFB is enough for me to handle well Red Bull Fan car in Sierra.

Did you think FFB strong or the Wheel hard to turn is better and this may close to Real?

There is no meaning with any toy wheels. Yea, I talking all the gaming or Sim Steering wheel.

Some professional team and driver (even F1) are used rFactor or somthing else as trainner.
I known someone used "Hyper Stimulator" and that guys raced in Le Mans or Bathurst.
(Well... I hate their original steering wheel, this is no FFB)

What this means?


Well, if you could feel the road bumpy and tire traction is already the best FFB.
If you want a better feel, build up a true suspension to your wheel, not double motor.

This is my cousluion in my last 14 year Race Sim experience.

 

[TCSdisable]

Also the OP talikng about F1.

The FFB should be correct to 1950-1990's F1

If based on "Strong", understand what I means?

 

[FSportIS]

Stop using it like a boat or school bus wheel lol. I'm guessing you're using the stock lock setting? 900* is ridiculous. 900 is basically a full rotation and a half, just to get to lock. Just shy by 10*. It would be completely impossible for me to be within one to two seconds of myself @450 lock in a quick car, over 900 degrees. Corner entries are heaps better. Controling oversteer is far easier, too.

How do you adjust the degree lock on DFGT? I tried pressing down "Select+Start" together with one of the 4 buttons X/O etc but everytime I do that, it either pause the race, or it go to car selection menu.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Let me figure something out.

To the people who like the new FFB did you run low FFB before the update?

To the people who do not like this update did you run high FFB before the update?

Before the update I was running 10 FFB and Power Assisted Steering off.
I mean not only did this update make the FFB soo low to the point I cannot judge weight transfer at all, but it made the wheel countersteer at such a sluggish place it is mind blowing.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

How do you adjust the degree lock on DFGT? I tried pressing down "Select+Start" together with one of the 4 buttons X/O etc but everytime I do that, it either pause the race, or it go to car selection menu.

Some DFGTs do not have the capability of setting the rotation. Others do.

Lock, I've been running my G27 at FFB 4 since I bought it almost 2 years ago. I'll let you know what I find works for me or doesn't. Haven't even been able to update yet. Went to bed last night before it hit and PS3 hasn't been on since.

 

[eran0004]

I like the change. Sure, it took some time to get used to it but to me it seems like the FFB range has increased. Before this update, I got max force feedback torque pretty quickly, pretty much in every turn. Now there's a difference depending on the weight shift, how sharp I'm turning, if I'm braking and what kind of tyres I have. Now I only get max torque in perhaps one or two corners at Circuito de la Sierra, which is the only track I've driven on since this update was released.

 

[DSkywalker01]

Ok can't feel or hear my Lamborghini losing traction. Not sure why...

 

[SmellyWallrus]

Let me figure something out.

To the people who like the new FFB did you run low FFB before the update?

To the people who do not like this update did you run high FFB before the update?

Before the update I was running 10 FFB and Power Assisted Steering off.
I mean not only did this update make the FFB soo low to the point I cannot judge weight transfer at all, but it made the wheel countersteer at such a sluggish place it is mind blowing.

Same as you, FFB 10, now ubber too light.

 

[The_Scotsman4]

I like the change. Sure, it took some time to get used to it but to me it seems like the FFB range has increased. Before this update, I got max force feedback torque pretty quickly, pretty much in every turn. Now there's a difference depending on the weight shift, how sharp I'm turning, if I'm braking and what kind of tyres I have. Now I only get max torque in perhaps one or two corners at Circuito de la Sierra, which is the only track I've driven on since this update was released.

Can please you tell us what settings you are running?

 

[grog]

Let me figure something out.

To the people who like the new FFB did you run low FFB before the update?

To the people who do not like this update did you run high FFB before the update?

Yeah, that's my theory too, even though you don't spell it out I know what you're getting at.

The range of adjustment has moved down, so If you liked it low you might be able to compensate by turning it up to get it back to the feeling you had before. Alternately if you prefered the FFB high there's no way to turn it up any more so you're left with it being lighter than you were used to.



If anyone wants to chime into the suggestions thread on the topic of the steering being too light click the link here

 

[emula]

The new FFB is absolutely terrible, the game now is gone bad to me

 

[liv4hardstyle]

I'm thinking PD needs to tell people how to set their wheels up, not change the FFB. That has been an issue for a while - people setting them incorrectly. You've had the update for a day. Test it at least a bit for a week or two before you guys go off. They made it more complicated to find FFB that suits you, rather than a generic 1-10 setting that required nothing other than selecting it, followed by you settling on a number that was good enough.

I tested my G25 and the result is very simple- there is little to no resistance. Lets not over complicate things, I am not lying about this. The lack of resistance feels like there is no FFB at all and that is not right, if i take a corner even at 60kph there will be resistance sorry to point out the obvious, this needs addressing..

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Honestly, I don't think anybody is complaining about the level of detail in the new FFB. It's just the strength that's too weak. I'm not saying FFB 10 is the most realistic either (I run FFB 5-6 depending on car), but it would be nice to have a range of strengths. As it is, the difference between 1-10 in the new settings is less than 1-2 in the old settings.

We just want a nice range of strengths PD, so everyone can tailor the FFB to their liking. Currently Logitech G2x wheels feel lifeless no matter what setting you use.