Fight for $15. (Fast food protest)

[MidFieldMaven]

Employers are only able to get away with paying low wages because people are willing to work for those low wages.

People are only "willing" to work for low wages because their only other option is to die homeless and hungry. The majority of $10/hr or less workers aren't willing to work for that. They're just not willing to die. Are you all saying these people should just die then? I didn't ask to be born. I shouldn't have to work my way up any ladders just to afford a roof over my head and food on the table. People had places to live and food to eat before the words employer and employee were invented. A job is a job. 40 hours a week is 40 long hours. I thought slavery was abolished?

 

[Johnnypenso]

People are only "willing" to work for low wages because their only other option is to die homeless and hungry. The majority of $10/hr or less workers aren't willing to work for that. They're just not willing to die. Are you all saying these people should just die then? I didn't ask to be born. I shouldn't have to work my way up any ladders just to afford a roof over my head and food on the table. People had places to live and food to eat before the words employer and employee were invented. A job is a job. 40 hours a week is 40 long hours. I thought slavery was abolished?

40 hours a week is a vacation for some of us that have lived a life of self-employment. FYI, no one had places to live and food to eat before employers came along, unless they went out and created it themselves with their own bare hands. And they sure didn't do it on 40 hours a week. If you don't like your rate of pay, use the other 128 hours of the week available to you to acquire a new skill. Educate yourself. Get a second job. Take on an apprenticeship with a craftsman. Start a business. Do the things successful people have been doing for centuries. Apply yourself. Don't wait around for someone else to do it for you.

 

[Tornado]

Are you all saying these people should just die then?

Would take care of the homeless problem.

 

[Danoff]

People are only "willing" to work for low wages because their only other option is to die homeless and hungry.

Actually, at least in the US, that's really not the case. Nobody who is mentally stable starves in the US. The mentally ill are a different issue altogether. Generally, people who are willing to work for low wages do so because they have no experience or education (usually high schoolers) or because they don't speak english and have no skills. People who don't speak English but have skills (those guys standing in the home depot parking lot) command higher than minimum wage.

In order to convince people to hire you, you need your foot in the door. The higher the barrier is to entry (ie: the higher minimum wage is... the more you have to bring to the table to convince someone to hire you), the harder it is to get the skills you need to be employable.

The option, btw, which is pointed out by the study that I posted, is to not have a job at all. So which do you prefer? To not have an option? Or to have an option?

 

[CodeRedR51]

use the other 128 hours of the week available to you to acquire a new skill.

One would hope you would use at least 42 of that for sleep......

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

One would hope you would use at least 42 of that for sleep......

I mean six hours of sleep a day still leaves 86 hours of time and that's if you have a conventional eight hour a day work week. Which any one fighting for a much higher minimum wage should have if full time.

Though that then cuts into the earning territory of those who actually have the ability to do multiple things in a week to try and achieve a better financial end goal.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I mean six hours of sleep a day still leaves 86 hours of time

How much time do you spend on the toilet each week? Sitting in traffic? Eating? Doing tasks around your residence, etc, etc.

We could do this all day.

 

[Danoff]

How much time do you spend on the toilet each week? Sitting in traffic? Eating? Doing tasks around your residence, etc, etc.

We could do this all day.

...and we'd come back to the same conclusion. A 40 hour a week job does not preclude bettering yourself in the remaining time.

 

[ryzno]

My 8 hour work day was actually 12. Traffic sucks...

 

[Danoff]

My 8 hour work day was actually 12. Traffic sucks...

Time to move.

 

[eran0004]

...Interesting. Not sure what the cost of living is like in Finland, but that amount should be too little to offer a comfortable, NEET-like existence, I think.

I also think the target for this scheme might be important as well - if I was a pimply-faced fresh meat straight out of a local high school with nothing but a single pat on the back for surviving it, then would I be "incentivised" to find work right away when there's enough moolah for me to buy the.... uh, latest copy of COD? Hmm.

...Heh, maybe I should emigrate to Finland. The weather might be terrible but the free cash sounds like a good bait to me. Provided, of course, as long as this whole thing passes the mustard. And the Finnish gov folks increase the amount a wee bit more....

If it's about the same as Sweden that should at least cover the rent of a small apartment in a city that's not the capital.

I don't think you can emigrate to Finland to get free cash though. You must have a valid reason (work, study, or be in an established intimate relationship with a Finnish citizen). In addition, you must be able to make your own living and for an adult person that means a net income of at least €1000 per month.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

How much time do you spend on the toilet each week? Sitting in traffic? Eating? Doing tasks around your residence, etc, etc.

We could do this all day.

No we can't, because I will tell you right now I'm one of those people stretched thin for a better financial end goal several months out of the year. And my wife has been in the same situation all year. So this isn't some joke to me (part of why I haven't taken part in this thread all that much), no one gives or should give hand outs in life and until others start striving for the financial security of the own future, they don't deserve some leap in wage because of a job trained circus apes can perform.

A reasonable person will actually have evaluated all that time into their standard day to day as @ryzno demonstrated. All but the toilet I'm guessing which many people use while at work and getting paid, so defeats your lackluster attempt as being clever.

 

[CodeRedR51]

so defeats your lackluster attempt as being clever.

Just trying to lighten the mood in here but apparently it's lost on you as usual.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Ontario recently passed a bill to bump minimum up to $15 by 2019. The articles I've read state around a quarter of workers in the province will benefit from it. That's concerning, since I imagine such a large chunk of people suddenly getting paid more for doing no more work will cause a domino effect.

I'm just about 31, and I remember minimum wage being less than half that at my first job. Ive never been under the impression minimum wage was intended to be a living wage, especially for those with families. It's sort of in the name. Our minimum wage is $11.40 currently; is a weekly increase of $140 really going to have a massive impact on these people, compared to the increased pressure it will be putting on the employers, and the subsequent increase in the costs of goods to balance the wage hike?

 

[Danoff]

Ontario recently passed a bill to bump minimum up to $15 by 2019. The articles I've read state around a quarter of workers in the province will benefit from it. That's concerning, since I imagine such a large chunk of people suddenly getting paid more for doing no more work will cause a domino effect.

It seems, based on the research done in the Seattle area, that it won't actually be people getting paid more, but people getting laid off.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Just trying to lighten the mood in here but apparently it's lost on you as usual.

Considering I joke quite often on the forums, it's not lost on me, and never is. I just decide not to actually go along with at times, which seems to have upset you for whatever reason. @Johnnypenso was making a serious suggestion based of another serious argument, I gave a leveled claim on times from your "hope".

So if you want to joke, fine, just don't expect people to want to or have to play along. Now if you want to discuss the topic at hand that'd be great. It seems to me you believe that it's not that easy to actually use time in a week to such extremes as some have asked. Would that be a somewhat correct assumption of you?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Considering I joke quite often on the forums, it's not lost on me, and never is. I just decide not to actually go along with at times, which seems to have upset you for whatever reason. @Johnnypenso was making a serious suggestion based of another serious argument, I gave a leveled claim on times from your "hope".

I was just pointing out that his "you have another 128 hours in the week" is unrealistic if you plan on not dying from lack of sleep. I would guess that he put that reply out in a rush and didn't think about that. Either way, I've got work to do...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I was just pointing out that his "you have another 128 hours in the week" is unrealistic if you plan on not dying from lack of sleep. I would guess that he put that reply out in a rush and didn't think about that. Either way, I've got work to do...

I figured he knows that people need to sleep, and would hope that people would have the foresight to be able to balance sleep, work, and using the obvious free time in between to better themselves. Or just use it for recreation and complain about not making enough.

I mean my wife works 48-50 hour work weeks, goes to school/clinical/labs for another 40 hours and has had this for the past two years. So I just find it hard to see how those with 8 hour a day work weeks can't and rather protest a need for a leap in minimum wage.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I mean my wife works 48-50 hour work weeks, goes to school/clinical/labs for another 40 hours and has had this for the past two years. So I just find it hard to see how those with 8 hour a day work weeks can't and rather protest a need for a leap in minimum wage.

That's a pretty crappy life she has. I do not have ambition like that. So I deserve to be paid less than it costs to live, eh? Even though I work 40 hours a week.

 

[mustafur]

Im just going to say this, its good you can work most of your awake time all week, but some people value a quality of life.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That's a pretty crappy life she has. I do not have ambition like that. So I deserve to be paid less than it costs to live, eh? Even though I work 40 hours a week.

Crappy why? Because she's actually working toward an end goal and will be done with it in a month and half after 4 years of tedious work? No you don't deserve it, because if your job in a 40 hour work week, is passing fries through a window or putting together a Venti size drink, you're not actually saving lives. Which she does...

If you actually invest in a trade, school, something that took time to learn and be skilled at you should get paid a higher degree than others. Because you know how to put two patties between a bun before the lunch rush on the other hand, doesn't.

 

[Danoff]

That's a pretty crappy life she has. I do not have ambition like that. So I deserve to be paid less than it costs to live, eh? Even though I work 40 hours a week.

You don't deserve to be paid anything for being willing to work 40 hours per week. Nothing... not a single dime. You deserve to be paid whatever you can earn in whatever amount of time you work.

Im just going to say this, its good you can work most of your awake time all week, but some people value a quality of life.

I'm sure @LMSCorvetteGT2's wife doesn't value the quality of her life... how about you think for half a second before posting something like this. Some people are willing to work hard to improve their quality of life, you aren't, you'd rather have your quality of life right now. Great, where's the problem?

Edit:

And by the way, there's not all that much quality of life in not working. If you're doing it right, you get some of your quality of life by actually accomplishing something valuable with it.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Im just going to say this, its good you can work most of your awake time all week, but some people value a quality of life.

You do realize medical professionals work 12 hour shifts or more right? No one said getting the lifestyle you want is easy, but you don't get it for free or protesting your minimum wage. Nor should you.

 

[mustafur]

Yes, I Also know medical professionals have a very high rate of work related suicide, its not exactly something that sounds healthy being pushed to the bone like that but that is just my opinion.

Being a Chef though that is one profession where the hours basically seem like torture.

The point is alot of people overlook the value of life and think putting them selves in a terrible state to achieve wealth etc is somehow noble.

Of course some people are built for it others don't have the mental capability.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yes, I Also know medical professionals have a very high rate of work related suicide, its not exactly something that sounds healthy being pushed to the bone like that but that is just my opinion.

Being a Chef though that is one profession where the hours basically seem like torture.

The point is alot of people overlook the value of life and think putting them selves in a terrible state to achieve it is somehow noble.

Of course some people are built for it others don't have the mental capability.

No where is it claimed to be noble, but there isn't much pride in self or strive to be more, if your peak is washing dishes or warming up frozen meat in a microwave for a dollar menu.

No one says you have to become a Nurse, Doctor, Cook, Engineer, Researcher, Lawyer and so on...there are numerous ways of making a life for yourself. With advanced training in something and guaranteeing you a better financial outlook, it really defeats the purpose of the self-entitlement of "I deserve a higher wage because I'm willing to work this job that anyone of any lawful required age could do".

 

[Danoff]

Yes, I Also know medical professionals have a very high rate of work related suicide, its not exactly something that sounds healthy being pushed to the bone like that but that is just my opinion.

...and you've concluded that medical professional suicides are due to long work hours and not the fact that some of them see people die on a regular basis? Interesting conclusion. Did you just wing that or do you have a study of some kind?

Try working with child cancer patients for a little while and let me know how it goes. Just volunteer your time, bring in balloons or do a puppet show. They'll love it, you'd be doing a world of good. I'm sure it won't be unbelievably heartbreakingly difficult for you.

 

[mustafur]

No where is it claimed to be noble, but there isn't much pride in self or strive to be more, if your peak is washing dishes or warming up frozen meat in a microwave for a dollar menu.

No one says you have to become a Nurse, Doctor, Cook, Engineer, Researcher, Lawyer and so on...there are numerous ways of making a life for yourself. With advanced training in something and guaranteeing you a better financial outlook, it really defeats the purpose of the self-entitlement of "I deserve a higher wage because I'm willing to work this job that anyone of any lawful required age could do".

My comment is not really aimed at the minimum wage argument,more on the comment you made earlier of "my wife does x hours over 40 so why cant everyone else."

This Topic is very American centric though as from my expereince in australia minimum wage jobs here are liveable(tougher in Sydney but liveable) and it's quite easy to get jobs significantly higher then minimum wage without anything more then simply finishing secondary School.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

My comment is not really aimed at the minimum wage argument,more on the comment you made earlier of "my wife does x hours over 40 so why cant everyone else."

Never did I say so why can't everyone do what she does. What I said was why can't people with less hours in a work week. Be it 40 or 32. The point I'm making is there are plenty of people that are working full time, and going to school full time to make a better life down the road. Others go into an apprenticeship or military or so on. Point is they do something to make a change.

 

[Danoff]

This Topic is very American centric though as from my expereince in australia minimum wage jobs here are liveable(tougher in Sydney but liveable) and it's quite easy to get jobs significantly higher then minimum wage without anything more then simply finishing secondary School.

I have maids that make more than minimum wage. One of them speaks English. It's not hard here.

 

[Thematic]

"Divide and rule" plays out very illustratively.