Fight for $15. (Fast food protest)

[samurai8juice]

Why do they refuse to bring their own lunch? Because they can.

How on Earth did these guys live without fast food?

The real comedy is that I have gone periods where I did bring my lunch and didn't (because I was being lazy about fixing one). The difference between a week of bringing my own and grabbing food somewhere quick: about $20 a week. That adds up over time. Fast food is not only one of the least healthy options out there, but is yet another expense of convenience that people didn't have back in the glory days.

But don't worry, fast food isn't going anywhere for a long time. Fast food jobs, yes. And much more quickly when you force employees to become a larger expense. Some places are already testing kiosk stands instead of cashiers. I also have multiple apps on my phone so that I can order my food in advance at places like Wendy's and Taco Bell.


I'll be honest, I can't wait for the day when me ordering no cheese actually means I get no cheese on my burger.

Not looking like it got stepped on will just be a bonus alongside getting what I actually ordered.

And don't even get me started on "no ice."

To my experiences Burger King and Arbys are the way to go.

McDonalds is just a peasant shack compared to them. (joking, kind of).

 

[Exorcet]

The problem is most people really don't want to be healthy. Being healthy is hard work. So until people start showing a drastic change like choosing not to eat fast food anymore, then the workers who make food for all of these lazy people should get paid enough to survive.

Why? The fast food job is still easily filled by 99% of the population. High paying office jobs aren't. Fast food jobs don't require you to pay for years of schooling, a move and a new house, and a car. I had to find money for all of that to get my job. When I worked in fast food all I did was walk in and ask for an application.

The jobs aren't worth very much and the workers are easily replaced. The problem is that people don't move on from these entry level jobs or don't live with reasonable budgets.

Speaking of budgets, quick math says I could maintain my life style on $7.15/hr. Food and housing is no problem for me. I could also have additional money if I didn't need a car. It also happens that I don't have a smartphone.

Minimum wage should vary from city to city depending on housing costs in the area. $8/hr where apartments range from $1,000/month or more, is not enough. I lived in Florida for several years where a nice 2 bedroom apartment cost less than $800 per month. Here in New Jersey my tiny one bedroom costs $1,015 per month. Minimum wage in both areas was about the same. It makes no sense.

If min wage is not enough to afford $1000/month housing, then why not get a better paying job or cut housing cost (live with someone else)? Telling the employer that they need to pay their employees more doesn't help if it prevents people from getting jobs. It also hurts the higher paying jobs that these people could move on to because now there is less incentive to change jobs. Why bother to learn a skill and move up when your employer is forced to give you more money for learning nothing?

 

[MidFieldMaven]

^ Living with others is not always an option, and neither is getting a better-paying job. I can't just go to the job tree and pick a job from it. Getting a job depends 99% on the employer doing the hiring, and 1% on my qualifications. Education should be free like it is in many successful countries overseas. America is doing it wrong.

 

[Famine]

Education should be free like it is in many successful countries overseas.

Which brings several questions.

Do you mean "free" or "free at point of use"?
What level of education should be free?
How do the teachers get paid?
What would happen to private schools?
Would education be free to opt out of as well?

 

[samurai8juice]

Which brings several questions.

Do you mean "free" or "free at point of use"?
What level of education should be free?
How do the teachers get paid?
What would happen to private schools?
Would education be free to opt out of as well?

Ask Bernie Sanders.

 

[Famine]

Ask Bernie Sanders.

If he were here, participating in this discussion, I would. But he isn't, so I've asked @SuzukaStar who brought it up.

 

[Exorcet]

^ Living with others is not always an option, and neither is getting a better-paying job.

Sure, but they shouldn't be totally elusive either. Most people have parents at least, and removing or reducing a housing expensive is a big deal financially.

I can't just go to the job tree and pick a job from it.

No, but that's not how getting a job works. You make yourself desirable as an employee and your chances of getting hired (or promoted) increase.

Getting a job depends 99% on the employer doing the hiring, and 1% on my qualifications. Education should be free like it is in many successful countries overseas. America is doing it wrong.

Taking these values without challenge, this is why you send in more than one application. You're not guaranteed to be given a job you apply for, but if you apply for a lot your chances go up a lot.

 

[High-Test]

To be honest, Truman doubled the minimum wage in 1946, and that worked despite all the screaming that it wouldn't.

 

[Carbonox]

To be honest, Truman doubled the minimum wage in 1946, and that worked despite all the screaming that it wouldn't.

From 40 cents to 75. Not exactly the same as what's being demanded right now.

 

[CodeRedR51]

From 40 cents to 75. Not exactly the same as what's being demanded right now.

Well taking inflation into account, this says that's a $4.90 to $9.18 increase in todays money.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Well taking inflation into account, this says that's a $4.90 to $9.18 increase in todays money.

That's nearly double. Sounds about the same as todays' push from ~$8 to $15.

 

[Famine]

To be honest, Truman doubled the minimum wage in 1946, and that worked despite all the screaming that it wouldn't.

Define "worked".

Even if you want to ignore the fact that the economy was in trouble because of the scope of WW2, 1949 (when it actually happened) saw a deep recession - the deepest and longest since the Great Depression - followed by sky high inflation into the teens of percent, followed by another (albeit shallow) recession.

The currency immediately devalued too - the purchasing power of a dollar was 10% less in 1952 than it was in 1949.

 

[Azuremen]

Part of the justification for the $15 minimum wage in Seattle, where it is slowly being implemented, is to pay workers enough to live in and around the community they serve. Seattle, as you may be aware, is an highly affluent community with extremely high cost of living.

I was living here in 1967, when males of my generation could easily expect to work in a local flour or lumber mill or aircraft factory, make enough to have a stay-at-home wife, kids, own an in-town 3 bedroom bungalow, a muscle car, boat and fishing cabin all within a few years. Starting wage was ~$3/hr, a home ~$20k and a new car ~$2k. University tuition ~$120/qtr. Obviously, society and the economy have changed since then.

Seattle isn't really that expensive to live in compared to many other cities in the country, such as New York, San Francisco, Honolulu, most of the LA area, DC, and others.

Second, the increase in prices that you talk about is inflation, which can often be attributed to increasing minimum wage. So the solution is really the problem.

^ Living with others is not always an option, and neither is getting a better-paying job. I can't just go to the job tree and pick a job from it. Getting a job depends 99% on the employer doing the hiring, and 1% on my qualifications. Education should be free like it is in many successful countries overseas. America is doing it wrong.

Well now you sound like a college freshmen that just found out life isn't fair but everything is better in Europe.

You've got those percentages way off from my experience. People that actually have desirable skill sets and/or some vague work ethic and common sense will be able to get a job. Everyone I've ever known to have trouble getting or keeping a job usually lacked work ethic (late, lazy), common sense (wait, you can't do donuts in the business' parking lot?), and was just combative/argumentative about everything. People that make careers out of minimum wage jobs often do very little to improve their situation, or if they do try, it is very poorly thought out - like the Subway worker getting another job at Subway across town.

As for your continued argument about working in fast food is arguably harder than a desk job, I'm curious what kind of employment you've held again. I've worked on factory floors carrying lumber around in extreme heat and cold (open air factory) and I've worked desk jobs. A mistake in one meant I'd hurt myself a bit, maybe, and a mistake in the other could result in a bunch of dead people. Labor jobs typically have little real responsibility while office jobs often have "easier" work for you body but far more responsibility.

 

[A2K78]

Minimum wage should vary from city to city depending on housing costs in the area. $8/hr where apartments range from $1,000/month or more, is not enough. I lived in Florida for several years where a nice 2 bedroom apartment cost less than $800 per month. Here in New Jersey my tiny one bedroom costs $1,015 per month. Minimum wage in both areas was about the same. It makes no sense.

No minimum wage shouldn't vary from vary city, rather the whole idea of the minimum wage should be repealed and let the market alone set wages as it sets prices(as wages are nothing but a price).

Other than that anybody that support the existence of a minimum wage not only is clueless on how economics work but in reality support the outlawing of jobs for the most vulnerable.

 

[samurai8juice]

No minimum wage shouldn't vary from vary city, rather the whole idea of the minimum wage should be repealed and let the market alone set wages as it sets prices(as wages are nothing but a price).

Other than that anybody that support the existence of a minimum wage not only is clueless on how economics work but in reality support the outlawing of jobs for the most vulnerable.

I thought Laissez Faire Capitalism was a failure?

 

[A2K78]

stupidest argument for raising the minimum wage to $15

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/...uld-make-everyone-richer/Content?oid=19138455

truth is a $15 minimum wage doesn't make the poor rich, but rather it makes the poor much poorer in the since that it outlaws work. Like I said, the working poor benefits more when the market set wage oppose to government intervention.

 

[A2K78]

I thought Laissez Faire Capitalism was a failure?

We outlawed free market capitalism and replaced it with the fascist kind e.g. crony capitalism. That said its impossible to the current system is laissez faire.

I like how the awesome robert murphy destroy the argument against minimum wage:

 

[TenEightyOne]

I like how the awesome robert murphy destroy the argument against minimum wage:

You must spend a lot of time watching Libertarian economists, they seem to be your "thing" at the moment. Of course, these are ones you should have watched particularly; Bob Murphy argues against the $9 minimum wage, not for as you thought.

 

[CodeRedR51]

No minimum wage shouldn't vary from vary city, rather the whole idea of the minimum wage should be repealed and let the market alone set wages as it sets prices(as wages are nothing but a price).

Other than that anybody that support the existence of a minimum wage not only is clueless on how economics work but in reality support the outlawing of jobs for the most vulnerable.

If you don't like the argument about the current minimum wage, just wait and see what it would be like with no minimum wage. If people don't like working for ~$7/hr, they surely won't for less than that.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

If you don't like the argument about the current minimum wage, just wait and see what it would be like with no minimum wage. If people don't like working for ~$7/hr, they surely won't for less than that.

If that's the only job they can get, they sure WILL work for less.

 

[Northstar]

I can't just go to the job tree and pick a job from it. Getting a job depends 99% on the employer doing the hiring, and 1% on my qualifications.

You kind of can, there are businesses whose sole mission is to find people jobs. You just go in, list your qualifications and they do their best to get you working and keep you working. Granted none of the jobs are going to be buying you a house right away and you probably will have to hop around some before you land a permanent one, but if you are in need of money it's not that bad of a deal.

Education should be free like it is in many successful countries overseas. America is doing it wrong.

 

[CodeRedR51]

If that's the only job they can get, they sure WILL work for less.

I sure as hell wouldn't.

 

[samurai8juice]

We outlawed free market capitalism and replaced it with the fascist kind e.g. crony capitalism. That said its impossible to the current system is laissez faire.

Either way they both lead to an Oligarchy/Plutocracy.

If that's the only job they can get, they sure WILL work for less.

Not if you get more from Social Security Benefits.

 

[McLaren]

stupidest argument for raising the minimum wage to $15

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/...uld-make-everyone-richer/Content?oid=19138455

truth is a $15 minimum wage doesn't make the poor rich, but rather it makes the poor much poorer in the since that it outlaws work. Like I said, the working poor benefits more when the market set wage oppose to government intervention.

Silly headline title is most definitely silly.

Why stop at $15/hour to make everyone richer? Why not just give everyone a $1 million & call it a life time if that's the big goal? Derp.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Part of the justification for the $15 minimum wage in Seattle, where it is slowly being implemented, is to pay workers enough to live in and around the community they serve. Seattle, as you may be aware, is an highly affluent community with extremely high cost of living.

If workers aren't making enough money to live in the community they serve are they now homeless? Living out of town? Living with others and splitting the rent? How do they get by currently?

Minimum wage should vary from city to city depending on housing costs in the area. $8/hr where apartments range from $1,000/month or more, is not enough. I lived in Florida for several years where a nice 2 bedroom apartment cost less than $800 per month. Here in New Jersey my tiny one bedroom costs $1,015 per month. Minimum wage in both areas was about the same. It makes no sense.

Atlas Shrugged. You should read it. It's a tale that describes the type of society that it sounds like you want to live in.

 

[DK]

@SuzukaStar, spare yourself over a thousand pages of turgid prose. Atlas Shrugged's basically about a petulant Marty Stu and his gazillionaire buddies running away from society because they're getting "triggered" by taxes and quality control regulations, and of course society collapses without them. It was also the subject of a trilogy that has an atrocious rating on Rotten Tomatoes.

 

[A2K78]

If you don't like the argument about the current minimum wage, just wait and see what it would be like with no minimum wage. If people don't like working for ~$7/hr, they surely won't for less than that.

You should ask your this question, but which is better..having no job or least being pay something. In the case of someone who is poor I'm quite sure they would value at least being paid over not having a job.

 

[CodeRedR51]

You should ask your this question, but which is better..having no job or least being pay something. In the case of someone who is poor I'm quite sure they would value at least being paid over not having a job.

Well if you can't live on $7/hr, what's the point of making less than that?

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Well if you can't live on $7/hr, what's the point of making less than that?

If you can't live on $7/hr, why work at all?

 

[A2K78]

Either way they both lead to an Oligarchy/Plutocracy

A real free market economist would disagree with you. To further add a condition like oligarchy/plutocracy is a product of government intervention in the economy not a free market capitalist system.

Like I said, we don't really live under a free market system but rather a system that is essentially fascist.