Fight for $15. (Fast food protest)

[Northstar]

So people who work 40 hours a week aren't owed enough pay to put a roof over their heads and food in the fridge? They might as well just starve and die in the streets, then. Are you all Republicans? Or perhaps anarchists?

I'm guessing you didn't read my post?

Mainly, this part...

As to the point, I would say anyone that works 40 hours a week could probably afford to have a roof over ones head and a full fridge if they are good at keeping a budget. The main setback that seems to be stopping people from doing so is misplaced priorities. I've always wondered how many of those protesting for a higher minimum wages frequent expensive places like Chipotle, have the latest phones, a newer car and other non-essential luxury items.

I fail to see why it's my problem that some idiot would rather buy a new smartphone and eat at Chipotle instead of paying for their basic needs.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I'm guessing you didn't read my post?

Mainly, this part...



I fail to see why it's my problem that some idiot would rather buy a new smartphone while eating at Chipotle than pay for their basic needs.

Smartphones are pretty much necessary to function in society. You need a phone for when your boss needs to contact you. Not everyone who makes minimum wage has a newer car or a new phone, and they still can't make ends meet without hitting up the government for money from other taxpayers. So which are you? Republican, or anarchist?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Smartphones are pretty much necessary to function in society.

Wrong. However you can get a basic pay as you go phone for next to nothing and the service would cost you no more than $30.

 

[AOS-]

Has anyone who complains about fast food quality and/or workers' wages ever, I dunno, worked a fast food job full-time? You can make fun of it all you want and call it an easy job, but it's really not. Customers complain about the pettiest things ever. There is no sitting down on the job. If you currently sit in a chair all day and get paid for it, YOU have an easier job. I'm so sick of people talking down to people who are trying to make an honest living.

Companies got deadlines to meet, calls to make to discuss plans of action/deals to sort out/following to calls you missed, and they have to find ways to continue making money. When you have to juggle all these tasks, you never get it all done in a day. No one's going to tell you how to manage your time best, you were working on one thing and next thing you know, one of your biggest customers call in to report something about your product isn't working. Now you have to prioritize fixing their problem first, put all your handful of other overdue assignments on hold, resolve the problem, call them back. Before you can get back to resuming, it's 30-minutes before the day is over.

Honest living doesn't only pertain to minimum wage. Are you saying my office position is not an attempt to make an honest living? I only get paid $2 more than I do at my part time at a retail store and a single mistake on my end can cost the company a client who invested in us. A single mistake of the same condition at a fast-food just means one bad customer experience and a double-digit refund at most. That's not going to stop the rest of the folks from continuing to stand in line waiting their turn to order.

Also, "no sitting down on the job" shouldn't be something to complain about. Stay in shape. It's a fast food service. You have to be ready to keep moving around. Being given a seat just means there's more opportunities for productivity to slow down, and it makes the employees look less proactive from the customer's point of view. If your job is to dish out products and service at a high rate, I'd expect to see results. The retails and fast-food chains I go to here don't have workers who are trying to work fast. In my part-time job, I'm busting my ass more than the manager themselves and some of my other colleagues get sleazy with their duties forcing me to do the rest for them. Why should they deserve any more than I do?

For those who don't want to work hard, they can continue to keep the easy jobs with less responsibilities, but that sure as hell shows how much they deserve to be paid.

If you want to work hard (i.e. "make an honest living"), be paid more and be recognized for it, aim for higher positions. Working the lax job doesn't cut it.

 

[Northstar]

Smartphones are pretty much necessary to function in society. You need a phone for when your boss needs to contact you.

Really?

This is the type of phone I have and it seems to work just fine when my boss calls it (I see no reason to replace it as it still works).

I'm also well aware that not all of them have newer cars and constantly eat at Chipotle, but I'm also aware that plenty do.

I'm also well aware that if you feel you are stuck at a job like McDonald's you are quite lazy as there are constantly listings for full-time non-minimum wage jobs that require little to no experience. Sure you may have to do sales or work as a temp., but both those things sure beat working 20 hours a week at a fast food place.

 

[ildd]

Smartphones are pretty much necessary to function in society. You need a phone for when your boss needs to contact you. Not everyone who makes minimum wage has a newer car or a new phone, and they still can't make ends meet without hitting up the government for money from other taxpayers. So which are you? Republican, or anarchist?

Not even close. I know plenty of people with flip phones and they get by just fine.
And it has nothing to do with a car... it has more to do with 60-80% of your income going straight to rent, while most of the remaining income goes to feeding yourself and one or two of your kids. There's no money to save.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I still don't understand how anyone with a job can possibly be lazy. You want to know what lazy is? Not working.

 

[ildd]

I still don't understand how anyone with a job can possibly be lazy. You want to know what lazy is? Not working.

Ok, it goes like this:

A person can stand in their house or they can stand in the back of a room making $8 an hour and do the bare necessity (if even that) and hope nobody sees you.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Ok, it goes like this:

A person can stand in their house or they can stand in the back of a room making $8 an hour and do the bare necessity (if even that) and hope nobody sees you.

Lazy people don't stand very often. That said, this was my first venture outside the GT6 forum so I'll just go back there where I fit in better.

 

[Joel]

I still don't understand how anyone with a job can possibly be lazy. You want to know what lazy is? Not working.

There's tons of lazy people in every workplace and industry, being lazy isn't about doing nothing, it's about doing the bare minimum (or less). It's very prevalent with foodservice, and especially fast food, because lots of the employees are either at the low end of the workforce or are teens working their first jobs who don't really get it yet.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I still don't understand how anyone with a job can possibly be lazy. You want to know what lazy is? Not working.

Nonsense, and in my experience the higher you get the worse the problem becomes.

 

[Tornado]

Amusingly, in my experience the people who most feel that they need to have smartphones (even though they only work 15 hours a week selling shoes or whatever) are the ones who tend to do the least amount of work.

 

[ildd]

Amusingly, in my experience the people who most feel that they need to have smartphones are the ones who tend to do the least amount of work.

Yep. It's the single biggest distraction in the modern world, I think.

 

[Azuremen]

I still don't understand how anyone with a job can possibly be lazy. You want to know what lazy is? Not working.

How you ever worked a minimum wage job for much time? Or any job really?

 

[MidFieldMaven]

How you ever worked a minimum wage job for much time? Or any job really?

Google "lazy" and this is what you get: unwilling to work or use energy.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Google "lazy" and this is what you get: unwilling to work or use energy.

So it doesn't say "Unwilling to take a job" then? If you've never worked with anyone who's lazy then you're very lucky. I doubt that would be true though...

 

[samurai8juice]

New York is already one of the only states with the 5 cent bottle tax, and counties around Western New York have high sales tax rates of 8-10%. And now New York is the first state that has $15 an hour for Fast Food Workers. I guess we're leading a national revolution?

 

[Slash]

Google "lazy" and this is what you get: unwilling to work or use energy.

You didn't answer the question. Have you or have you not worked and how much time have you put in?

 

[Joel]

The thing about the foodservice industry including fast food is that it's a bit of a home for society's outcasts and misfits. The working conditions are generally awful, long and irregular hours (including weekends and holidays) in 60C+/140F+ kitchens, very few breaks, frequent burns and cuts, you spend the whole day on your feet, and are often in a rush which leads to more injuries. It's rare to be paid more than minimum wage, and ever more rare to get benefits or much vacation time. Generally people choose to put up with that because they either enjoy the work itself, or just don't any other option.

I've worked 4 years in kitchens, and plenty of people put up with those conditions and low pay because they love and are passionate about cooking, or they'd rather work an honest job than work in an office. Some people just don't fit in to the "real world", while in a kitchen their eccentricities are welcome. Some just prefer a workplace where you can make a cock and balls out of a turkey neck and tomatoes and have your co-workers laugh along instead of rolling their eyes. There's lots of hardworking and honest people in kitchens, from McDonalds to 3 Michelin star restaurants.

Then there's people who put up with that kind of working environment because they're simply too inexperienced (teens in their first jobs) or just aren't productive enough employees to bargain for better pay or conditions (in another industry). That's where a lot of the laziness comes in. Biggest thing I see in kitchens for laziness is 15/16 year old dishwashers, who respond to anything they're told to do with "that's not my job", or lifers in their 40's/50's who just do the absolute bare minumum and don't care.

 

[McLaren]

You'd be surprised. Besides, does it matter? Is 40 hours per week not enough to deserve a roof over one's head and food in the fridge?

The amount of hours you work does not entitle you to have a home & food.

If you want those things, find a better job. Burger flipping nor any minimum wage job wasn't intended to afford such things; they're entry level jobs for people entering the workforce.

And also, television commercials are designed entirely to make the product seem better than it is. If you watch commercials expecting the reality to live up to how the product is presented on television, you're going to have a bad time.

So, you deserve $15/hour to put together a cheap burger & it's my fault it doesn't even remotely reflect what the company advertises? You realize the issue there lies on you.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Has anyone who complains about fast food quality and/or workers' wages ever, I dunno, worked a fast food job full-time?

I did throughout high school. I still work at a bar, though certainly not full time. I make roughly the server minimum wage (which is $9.55 up here), plus tips. Tips skew things however: minimum wage in the kitchen is $11.

I don't feel bad for the 52 year old Subway worker mentioned in the article a few pages back. His rent is less than mine, his pay is almost the same dollar amount (ignoring how poorly the CDN dollar is doing right now, since it doesn't matter for this situation), and the cost of living is generally lower in the US. Living in downtown Toronto is certainly comparable to Manhattan - food is cheaper in the States, and taxes are lower.

I can more than comfortably afford my rent, food, and my smart phone (which, despite your suggestion, is certainly not a requirement, even for a freelance graphic designer. Oh, and it's far more expensive here).

He is making more than enough for exactly what you said: a roof over his head, and food. Are restaurant jobs hard? No. They're busy, they can drain you, but they don't require any particular skill set.

You can make fun of it all you want and call it an easy job, but it's really not. Customers complain about the pettiest things ever.

That is not unique to fast food.

There is no sitting down on the job.

That is most certainly not true.

If you currently sit in a chair all day and get paid for it, YOU have an easier job.

I bring people their food, pour beers, shake cocktails, and occasionally have to pretend I know something about our wine list. My girlfriend just recently got a promotion at work, where she makes a useful $500/month (or so) more than I do. She's in charge of roughly 1600 patients across three provinces, dealing with 18 different nurses ensuring that people (that often make less than minimum wage) can get access to life-saving medication. Literally life and death.

But, she does it from a chair in front of a desk. Lazy, amirite?

I'm so sick of people talking down to people who are trying to make an honest living. If you work 40 hours a week, you deserve a roof over your head and a full fridge. This isn't the 1800s.

I agree, they do deserve those things. Nearly doubling the minimum wage will ensure that, in short order, more people will not have them.

If fast food wasn't an important job deserving decent pay, why are millions of people eating it every single day across the globe? If you want fast food workers to make less money, stop eating fast food. Go to Red Robin instead and get a GOOD burger.

...what?

Nobody wants them to make less money. You'll probably find it's more that people are concerned about crippling the economy by massively over-paying a large percentage of the workforce for no discernible reason.

And also, television commercials are designed entirely to make the product seem better than it is. If you watch commercials expecting the reality to live up to how the product is presented on television, you're going to have a bad time.

There are advertising standards in both of our countries, and fast food has long occupied a very grey area of them. Other food ads are guilty of glamming up their products, sure, but not nearly as bad as fast food.

The last time I went to a fast food place, I ordered this:

What I got was a smooshed bun, a smear of mayo that was equally applied to the wrapper, an awkwardly-cut end piece of tomato (you know, that weird slivery-plastic type, always with the butt), and one solitary, despondent piece of yellow-white romaine. But hey, the fries were good, and dipping them in a Frosty is still a great combo...

Woops, got carried away. The point: fast food workers are already doing work at such a sub-par level to what is advertised that getting a massive pay raise won't help that. Not that many of them will actually see the pay raise, since the companies will have to lay a bunch of them off to afford these new wages.

I still don't understand how anyone with a job can possibly be lazy. You want to know what lazy is? Not working.

I take it you've never experienced a union worker.

 

[McLaren]

I take it you've never experienced a union worker.

It has to at least mean something when even the unions across the US are against this wage increase.

Unions in LA have successfully managed to get themselves excluded from it because they believe it will end up decreasing their own existence if the workers they try to benefit end up being laid off.

 

[Dotini]

Part of the justification for the $15 minimum wage in Seattle, where it is slowly being implemented, is to pay workers enough to live in and around the community they serve. Seattle, as you may be aware, is an highly affluent community with extremely high cost of living.

I was living here in 1967, when males of my generation could easily expect to work in a local flour or lumber mill or aircraft factory, make enough to have a stay-at-home wife, kids, own an in-town 3 bedroom bungalow, a muscle car, boat and fishing cabin all within a few years. Starting wage was ~$3/hr, a home ~$20k and a new car ~$2k. University tuition ~$120/qtr. Obviously, society and the economy have changed since then.

 

[FoolKiller]

Has anyone who complains about fast food quality and/or workers' wages ever, I dunno, worked a fast food job full-time?

Yes. I have flipped burgers, made pizzas, pushed carts, run registers, and even did a stint at a movie theater. After that experience one thing leaves me wondering: How does someone work for 20 years and never make more money? I worked to be the best I could at each one of those jobs and I was given pay increases and opportunities to take on higher positions. At Meijer I even had managers in other departments trying to head hunt me.

So, based on my experience in doing these sorts of jobs, I see no reason why anyone who can't get above minimum wage after years should make more. Those who deserve it, based on merit, can get it.

You can make fun of it all you want and call it an easy job, but it's really not. Customers complain about the pettiest things ever. There is no sitting down on the job. If you currently sit in a chair all day and get paid for it, YOU have an easier job. I'm so sick of people talking down to people who are trying to make an honest living.

Let me put it this way. The movie theater job had all those rules you discussed. I made food, sold tickets, cleaned theaters, and even cleaned bathrooms. I worked the job my senior year of college because I, and I am quoting myself here, "Wanted the least amount of responsibility as possible." If I made a mistake I had a bloated, ugly woman yelling about her popcorn.

Since then I have worked in jobs where a mistake cost thousands, even millions of dollars, where an error had major legal implications, and currently I work in a job where some mistakes can result in people being unable to get life-saving medicine.

I wonder if people that think that people in an office job have it easy have ever worked that job. A judgment call goes from having to cook a burger again while listening to complaining to having huge financial and legal implications that can hurt both yourself and others.

If you work 40 hours a week, you deserve a roof over your head and a full fridge.

No, you don't. Work and pay is not determined by the amount of time you showed up, but by the work you do. Even in an office setting I see employees finding ways to avoid working. If you read Dilbert, does Wally deserve to be paid the same as Dilbert? They are there the same amount of time, but Dilbert struggles to complete his projects on time, is driven crazy by his boss, and Wally finds a way to get out of doing everything that comes his way.

If fast food wasn't an important job deserving decent pay, why are millions of people eating it every single day across the globe? If you want fast food workers to make less money, stop eating fast food. Go to Red Robin instead and get a GOOD burger.

It's about convenience, not importance. The world would continue to run if the fast food industry completely went under. People enjoy it, but can easily live without it. I do much of the time. When I do get it it is because I can, not because I need to. I don't know anyone that needs to stop by McDonald's.

So people who work 40 hours a week aren't owed enough pay to put a roof over their heads and food in the fridge?

No. People who are effective workers at earning enough to put a roof over their head and food in their fridge are owed it. You aren't paid for your time. You are paid for your work. I personally think hourly wages are the worst form of compensation in the market today. When appropriate I like commission, and when calculating a commission is too difficult, then a set salary for doing the job.

People used to raise entire families with one minimum wage income. Why shouldn't that still be possible?

Sure, as soon as they put an antenna on top of their 13" TV, never play video games, send their kids out to play with a stick and the rim off a bicycle tire, have one vehicle that they repair themselves, make most of their own clothes, grow much of their own vegetables, and eat much less meat.

THAT is how entire families were raised on a minimum wage.

Smartphones are pretty much necessary to function in society.

I didn't have one until five years ago. If you take out all my medical stuff that I bought it in order to help me keep track, the only difference between before I had one and now is that I get to play video games on my lunch break. Companies that have jobs that require you to have a smartphone will pay for it or provide one.

You need a phone for when your boss needs to contact you.

Man, I remember the savage times, when my boss called me on a phone attached to the wall by a cord.

Google "lazy" and this is what you get: unwilling to work or use energy.

You haven't worked a job next to a guy like that? I have.

 

[Dotini]

In our society today, only a small fraction are employed full-time in a decent job. We have more people in prison per capita than any other country in the known world. An 'effing ridiculous number of young, fit, educated people are unemployed or underemployed. Here, these people are not owed an income, a job, housing, food, transportation, entertainment, health care, families, or anything else. They are expected to compete for it...or else. Else what? Move away, sink into crime or underground economy, kill or die?

To me, the answer is simple. I grew up in simpler, better times. I'm rich and have it all. My best advice is to invent a time machine and turn the clock back. Otherwise, I can see no solution and no hope. But maybe there is a plan or an idea out there I have not considered. What is it?

 

[MidFieldMaven]

It's great that you know what would happen if fast food places disappeared. It's as if you're from the future.

The fact is lots of people DO rely on fast food to get through the day. I worked with countless people who refused to bring their own lunches from home and/or did not have time to sit down and eat a nice meal in a restaurant.

 

[FoolKiller]

It's great that you know what would happen if fast food places disappeared. It's as if you're from the future.

The fact is lots of people DO rely on fast food to get through the day. I worked with countless people who refused to bring their own lunches from home and/or did not have time to sit down and eat a nice meal in a restaurant.

Why do they refuse to bring their own lunch? Because they can.

How on Earth did these guys live without fast food?

The real comedy is that I have gone periods where I did bring my lunch and didn't (because I was being lazy about fixing one). The difference between a week of bringing my own and grabbing food somewhere quick: about $20 a week. That adds up over time. Fast food is not only one of the least healthy options out there, but is yet another expense of convenience that people didn't have back in the glory days.

But don't worry, fast food isn't going anywhere for a long time. Fast food jobs, yes. And much more quickly when you force employees to become a larger expense. Some places are already testing kiosk stands instead of cashiers. I also have multiple apps on my phone so that I can order my food in advance at places like Wendy's and Taco Bell.


I'll be honest, I can't wait for the day when me ordering no cheese actually means I get no cheese on my burger.

Not looking like it got stepped on will just be a bonus alongside getting what I actually ordered.

And don't even get me started on "no ice."

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The fact is lots of people DO rely on fast food to get through the day. I worked with countless people who refused to bring their own lunches from home and/or did not have time to sit down and eat a nice meal in a restaurant.

How do you manage to call office jobs easy, call people who don't work lazy, and then simultaneously use laziness (or at least, convenience) to justify fast food?

People who refuse to bring their own lunches are being lazy, if anything.

Tell me again about how my girlfriend has an easier job.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I haven't eaten fast food in at least 5 years. I couldn't care less if fast food disappeared forever. It's one of the leading causes of obesity and related medical issues. I'd much prefer to turn all that land into small farms or gardens. Teach the employees a useful skill for once and stop encouraging the lazy and fat people to be lazy and fat.

The problem is most people really don't want to be healthy. Being healthy is hard work. So until people start showing a drastic change like choosing not to eat fast food anymore, then the workers who make food for all of these lazy people should get paid enough to survive.

Minimum wage should vary from city to city depending on housing costs in the area. $8/hr where apartments range from $1,000/month or more, is not enough. I lived in Florida for several years where a nice 2 bedroom apartment cost less than $800 per month. Here in New Jersey my tiny one bedroom costs $1,015 per month. Minimum wage in both areas was about the same. It makes no sense.

 

[FoolKiller]

Are you suggesting that base pay should be based on need not effort? So, a guy that has 4 kids should get more than a guy who has no kids while doing the same job? I mean, if we are basing it on housing costs, the guy with no kids is fine in a studio apartment, but that would never work with four kids.