FITT - Federation of International Tuners and Test-Drivers

[Motor City Hami]

@backnfourth Yes. This is where we (FITT) hang out. We tend to talk about the next tuning competition and things going on with the physics or simply poke fun at @Onboy123 for being such a young, clueless teenager.

I like your idea for having a virtual garage living only within the tuning directory. I hope that area develops. The search function on this site has always been a bit sub-par. I can find more on GTPlanet by going to Google than I can find using the search button on the site.

 

[Onboy123]

@backnfourth Yes. This is where we (FITT) hang out. We tend to talk about the next tuning competition and things going on with the physics or simply poke fun at @Onboy123 for being such a young, clueless teenager.

I like your idea for having a virtual garage living only within the tuning directory. I hope that area develops. The search function on this site has always been a bit sub-par. I can find more on GTPlanet by going to Google than I can find using the search button on the site.

Being young and clueless at least means I look good in…I don't know, a lime green MX5.

Glad I got a mention though, being brought up in conversation among the…ahem…more advanced (sadly, I don't mean this in terms of your tuning…/shotsfired) members of the sub-forum is always an honor.

…That aside, what's next in line for us? "See you in GT7"?

 

[Pete05]

Being young and clueless at least means I look good in…I don't know, a lime green MX5.

Glad I got a mention though, being brought up in conversation among the…ahem…more advanced (sadly, I don't mean this in terms of your tuning…/shotsfired) members of the sub-forum is always an honor.

…That aside, what's next in line for us? "See you in GT7"?

Great sense of humour @Onboy123 .
I love it when the roasted gives just as good as the roaster(s)

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

Allow me to pitch another idea.......Euro Hot Hatch, open to all, MiTo vs. 500 (spec) open to beginers at London reverse. I would be willing to compile specs and list of cars if there is interest(AND if I can get my daughter of Little Big Planet). Any ideas for a good Track?

 

[Onboy123]

Uh…perhaps a short track like Suzuka/Suzuka East for the Euro hatchbacks? I know it's an odd combo to have Euro cars on Japanese land, but whatever, we're not paying for shipping or something. Or returning to our origins again with a round at Grand Valley Speedway, 500PP?

And if it's hatchbacks, are you going to allow stuff like Z3Ms and 1 series' in? …Yeah, you hiding in the corner with the smug smile, thinking you've won this by picking RWD, I just blew it for you if they get banned. har har.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

Nah, was thinking FF "hatchbacks" only. Save Z3 and 1 series for a Euro FR challenge.

 

[xande1959]

There is interesting cars (FF) Europeans: 500 PP
: SIROCO '10 R / GOLF V GTI'' 05 / MINI COOPER S '07 / '11 RS CLIO / RENAULT MEGANE TROPHY '11 RS / ALFA ROMEO MITO 1.4 T SPORT '09 / '05 CITROEN C4 COUPE 2.0VTS / PEUGEOT 206 RC '03 / PEUGEOT 207 GTI 07'' / SEAT IBIZA CUPRA '04 / VOLVO C30 R-DESIGN '09 / A CHOICE AND WOULD BE SO MUCH.
--SOME RACE CAR WOULD BE ESPECIALLY WELCOME BEN BASE MODEL CIROCO:idea:👍

 

[DigitalBaka]

I have to say I like the idea of having the separate beginners/entry level challenge. I think no matter the events we move on with we should try to always have this kind of "spec" group where we have a small set of cars and options. I feel like that's a better way to learn tuning than having to mess with picking your parts and then making it all work together.

As far as the next event, I like the hatch idea @Bowtie-muscle. See if you can build that out. Lots of fun cars to play with in that group as @xande1959 listed out. There should also be new seasonals coming around soon, right? Shall we pick one of those as a quick run so we have time to check configurations for the hatchbacks?

Something else I was toying with, since we noticed it with the touring cars last event, was the idea of "restricting" rake on competition tunes. I don't think we need to mandate equal ride height but what do we think about a rule for the time being that front to rear difference must be 15 (or some number that makes sense) or less? Or should we even worry about it know that most folks are aware?

 

[Otaliema]

@DigitalBaka I personally think a rule regarding the ride height would be good to implement as some players will not use it out of self respect as it appears to be a glitch, any car, raise the nose to be 20+ points higher than the tail and boom your turning like a slot car....Some cars this is not a good thing others this is a massive boon.

Knowing about a trick/glitch to make the game work better than it should, and being able to tune a solid fast car with out using it should be the goal of the challenges at least IMHO.

 

[iainoflo85]

What @Otaliema said - it's a glitch that can be used to the tuners advantage and as such is not in the least representative of real world.

And the WRS don't take kindly to tuning exploits so I don't think that FITT should either.

 

[backnfourth]

I have to say I like the idea of having the separate beginners/entry level challenge. I think no matter the events we move on with we should try to always have this kind of "spec" group where we have a small set of cars and options. I feel like that's a better way to learn tuning than having to mess with picking your parts and then making it all work together.

I agree that the "spec" entry level class is an excellent way to get a grasp on things like suspension and LSD which seem to me the most important thing to be able to wrap your head around before you start messing with parts that can affect handling and trying to set up a transmission. If you FITTers decide to continue having this "spec" entry level class as a part the shoot outs, how do you think a beginner/entry level tuner is going to be defined/who would qualify for this class?

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

I like the list @xande1959 has there, pretty much what I thinking, maybe a few more cars but not many. The beginner class should be a "spec" class (not rookie), personnally loved being welcome to the group and would like others to feel the same. That being said, as someone who has only been around for 1 challenge, I'm just throwing out ideas hoping 1 might stick. I'm not really good at spread sheets or setting up links so would prefer someone else take it and run with it.

 

[DaBomm4]

I like the list @xande1959 has there, pretty much what I thinking, maybe a few more cars but not many. The beginner class should be a "spec" class (not rookie), personnally loved being welcome to the group and would like others to feel the same. That being said, as someone who has only been around for 1 challenge, I'm just throwing out ideas hoping 1 might stick. I'm not really good at spread sheets or setting up links so would prefer someone else take it and run with it.

I think the spreadsheets that @Motor City Hami and @DigitalBaka have created during the Miata Challenge are a very good base for following challenges to utilize. I agree that hosting your first event for FITT may be pretty overwhelming because of the prep work required for it.

 

[DigitalBaka]

I agree that the "spec" entry level class is an excellent way to get a grasp on things like suspension and LSD which seem to me the most important thing to be able to wrap your head around before you start messing with parts that can affect handling and trying to set up a transmission. If you FITTers decide to continue having this "spec" entry level class as a part the shoot outs, how do you think a beginner/entry level tuner is going to be defined/who would qualify for this class?

The idea we tossed around and settled on was anyone who wasn't in the top three finishers for any previous event. I think that seems to work out fairly. Many of the top finishers tend to rotate out depending on the event but it generally takes the more experienced guys like @praiano63 , @Motor City Hami , @XDesperado67 and many others out of the mix. That gives us lots of faces we haven't seen before and they get an opportunity for their work to shine outside the high level that the big, well known guys set.

I think the spreadsheets that @Motor City Hami and @DigitalBaka have created during the Miata Challenge are a very good base for following challenges to utilize. I agree that hosting your first event for FITT may be pretty overwhelming because of the prep work required for it.

Keith and I have always been willing to setup sheets like those for anyone that isn't sure of how to do it on their own. That should never be a reason for someone to shy away from hosting an event. Just as we teach tuning we also will let you lead your ideas to wherever you want to go. We all started off in the same place at the beginning so we're happy to use that experience to help. Everyone that has hosted so far has had a great idea be it certain drivetrains, car types, eras, etc.

If anyone has questions about an event they want to lead feel free to post them here and we can work it out as a community or start a private conversation with a couple folks and take it private if you wish. The prep work is the most important part; get that and everything runs smoothly.

I am going to keep an eye on the seasonals that should be coming shortly and pick one for the next event. It will be a quick two week deal as we have experimented with in GT5. That should give you time to work out details @Bowtie-muscle. Again, reach out to any/all of us to help with testing cars, scoring, tracks, etc.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Two thoughts from me. First, I like building the points sheets so for anyone who wants to do a competition, I can do the points for you. You will need to decide if you want to use the same method I use for the average point totals or if you want something else. Just ask and I am willing to help out.

Second, I don't know if we should limit ride height. Maybe in the spec class? I have been playing with ride height over the past week and you can take things too far and destroy a tune. It is adding another level of challenge to tuning. I tuned a FF car, added the ride height glitch and could not keep the back end under it. All of the other settings needed to be changed to make it fast again. It does not seem as easy as taking a stock tune and adding ride height split and you're done. There is still a need to finesse the other settings to get the car to be even through the corner and to find that last bit of lap time. Frankly, it has made tuning even more fun for me. Before the RH glitch, many, many cars would never get loose - just tuning for less understeer. Now I can get cars to oversteer and it is forcing decisions between a car the pushes a little or a car that oversteers a little. That feeling is more real world, though the setting is not.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

@DigitalBaka Appreciate the encouragement, I need time to really get a Euro Hot Hatch going, checking and specing the right cars. Haven't really had as much time the last to days as I thought I might, but will continue to work on something for the near future. @Motor City Hami , if you would be willing to help with the scoring that would be awesome, Miata system worked well and kept it close so I would prefer to stick with that. My main goal would be the "Spec" class, as again, helped me feel welcomed be the community here and would only want to build on that. Was also thinking of a third class, Scirroco Base Model but not sure yet.........1 more question, has anyone seen the Focus' in the Hot Hatch events? They were elligble in GT5 but not sure if they should be included? What does everyone think?

 

[Otaliema]

@Bowtie-muscle per the National A race series entry requirements for the hot hatch;
500 PP or less
Sports Hard or less
Normal Car
Country; Unites Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria.

No model, weight or year restrictions, sounds just like the GT5 seasonal race. Means right off a Lotus and Renaultsport will be the hot cars with the MR design and light weight.

You can obliviously make the rules as open or restrictive as you like with your challenge.

 

[Pete05]

@DigitalBaka Appreciate the encouragement, I need time to really get a Euro Hot Hatch going, checking and specing the right cars. Haven't really had as much time the last to days as I thought I might, but will continue to work on something for the near future. @Motor City Hami , if you would be willing to help with the scoring that would be awesome, Miata system worked well and kept it close so I would prefer to stick with that. My main goal would be the "Spec" class, as again, helped me feel welcomed be the community here and would only want to build on that. Was also thinking of a third class, Scirroco Base Model but not sure yet.........1 more question, has anyone seen the Focus' in the Hot Hatch events? They were elligble in GT5 but not sure if they should be included? What does everyone think?

For some reason GT or PD seem to think a Focus is only made in the USA. They're made all over the planet & sold in even more places. How is a Focus NOT a Euro Hot Hatch?

 

[Pete05]

@Bowtie-muscle per the National A race series entry requirements for the hot hatch;
500 PP or less
Sports Hard or less
Normal Car
Country; Unites Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria.

No model, weight or year restrictions, sounds just like the GT5 seasonal race. Means right off a Lotus and Renaultsport will be the hot cars with the MR design and light weight.

You can obliviously make the rules as open or restrictive as you like with your challenge.

I wouldn't call a Lotus a Hot Hatch.

 

[DaBomm4]

For some reason GT or PD seem to think a Focus is only made in the USA. They're made all over the planet & sold in even more places. How is a Focus NOT a Euro Hot Hatch?

Most of the cars in the game are sold in other countries but they are shown in their home territories. Ford is an American brand while Lotus is a European brand. This is probably the only reason they don't claim the Focus and a Euro Hot Hatch.

 

[Otaliema]

I wouldn't call a Lotus a Hot Hatch.

evil double post. use edit next time please.
I agree with you. Just stating per the game regulations a lotus is a qualified car for the hot hatch races. IRL they are coupes and sedans as they don't share the cargo volume with the passenger volume. But also by a loophole in the definition of hatchback or liftback, any car with a upward lifting rear door can be called a hatchback, even if said door is to access the engine.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

The TT also is a regular in the Hot Hatch races, I would keep it a FF event otherwise it would turn into a 111r Elise event.....was thinking of INCLUDING the Focus(not the '13 though), just looking for feedback.

 

[iainoflo85]

The TT also is a regular in the Hot Hatch races, I would keep it a FF event otherwise it would turn into a 111r Elise event.....was thinking of INCLUDING the Focus(not the '13 though), just looking for feedback.

Yeah the '13 Focus is a rabbit, but I think the other focus should be eligible.

 

[Pete05]

Sorry guys, no offense meant.

 

[DaBomm4]

Sorry guys, no offense meant.

It's ok, I was just pointing out a possible reason why PD didn't allow the Focus in the euro class, and @Otaliema was trying to help you for in the future.

 

[Otaliema]

@Pete05 we have all done it at some point or another. I realize I could have worded that a little better sorry about that.
@Bowtie-muscle as for the cars peronsally just remove the MR and RR drive trains, let the 4WD, FF and FR's battle it out, they each have their ups and downs.
Searching for 500PP limit cars and using the following body style definition, a flat or near flat back with no defined extended trunk or cargo area. 3 and 5 door design, with the rear window having a vertical angle greater than the front windscreen. one exception was granted the beetle it's a hatch no way it's anything else.
Exsamples;
4WD; Delta, 205, New Beetle RSi, Golf IV R32, A3, S3, Golf VI R,
FR; BMW 120i and 120id '04

 

[DigitalBaka]

If I remember the GT5 400PP Nordschliefe event right, the Foci were toward the front of the pack while not being overwhelmingly quick, but that may have been my own results. Someone with time go check the archives! They should be OK to let in. @CyKosis1973 may have some input on FFs that would be valuable.

EDIT: I take that back. It looks like the ST170 was up there with the Integras and MR2s. How much of that is tuning and how much the car, who knows?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6739322#post6739322

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

Thanks for all the input and ideas guys:tup: So here is where I am at and what I am thinking, Spec class for beginners/non podium finishers; not sure if I want to use just 1 car or a choice of 2or3, still building and specing. I have come up with close to "20" FF Hot hatches! That really should be enough of a variety to not use 4wd or FR. What I found was 2 TTs (2 more are Coupes), A3/S3, 2 Golfs(r32), Beetle RSi(if we want to call Beetle a Hatch @Otaliema), Delta and the Beefy 1750kg Brera. Now this could almost be there own class or used with Japanese cars like Evo or Subaru for another future challenge. Not sure what to do with them yet (thoughts?)..... @xande1959 threw out the suggestion of the Scirocco Base Model, and I like that idea as well. So, definately 2 classes, maybe 3 or 4? Alot of cars for me to sift through and build (not necessarily test) to get a good feel for the rules. Looking for thoughts/opinions/criticisms or whatever.

 

[Motor City Hami]

I like the beginner class, but in a few months we will run out of beginners. We had 11 signed up for the Miata event so with three winners, that leaves 7 for this event. After this we could have 4. We may need a different way to define what beginner is?

 

[Otaliema]

I just don't know what else to call the beetle(the new beetle) , it's not a coupe or a sedan, it a pregnant roller skate if you ask me .
@Bowtie-muscle I agree leave the Japanese cars for another challenge. as for the car list, I think picking a PP for each class will help a lot with determining the cars for the class and how many classes to have.

@Motor City Hami how are entry level/beginner's defined in the SCCA? maybe we could develop a rule based on that?