- 1,494
- Portland / Or /
- Barefoot_Driver
Sinof1337 -- 2:55.878 -- DC: 6
I'm going to assume ABS 1.
Eiger: 1:20.153, DC: 5
Corner entry is plagued by understeer. If I shift the weight forward the front just pushes, if I throttle the car goes straight. Rotation is difficult and slow.
Mid corner is plagued by understeer. Same as entry. Because the car wants to straighten with throttle I can't get on the throttle till corner exit.
Exit is has equal slip. Counter steering is easy but slow.
Overall the car is stiff and difficult to rotate.
Deep Forest: 1:35.726, DC: 7
Understeer isn't as large a problem here. But it is still there. The disparity between braking and throttle also isn't as large a problem. But again it's still there. I can get on the gas much sooner in a corner than at Eiger. It's difficult to drive this car smoothly, the front goes from rotation to straight with any application of the throttle.
787bcgr -- 2:55.480 -- DC: 8
ABS 0
Eiger: 1:20.122, DC: 8
It's unfortunate that ABS is 0 on this car. It's killing the times.
Understeer on entry, especially the first three corners, is unavoidable. I never hit all three apexes in the 15 laps I'm giving each car. Strangely it's the INSIDE tyre that is overloaded first, not the outside tyre. To me thing strange is happening with the front tyre balance and its not good for traction.
Throttle transition is very good.
Deep forest: 1:35.385, DC: 8
Braking is easier here. But that inside tyre thing! It's killing my times and my line. If I can keep from overheating the inside tyre then it feels nice. But trying to keep the tyres at their peak can be confusing ("which tyre is it right now") and that ruins the cars predictability. Having to keep the inside tyre from overheating means I never get close to the outside tyres limit.
I like the cars soft suspension, good rhythm.
Nijalninja -- 2:55.180 -- DC: 7
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:20.191, DC: 7
I like the soft suspension, but the car lacks grunt. Keeping it under control is easy, mainly because there's not enough power to get into trouble. Plus side: very little understeer.
Deep Forest: 1:34.989, DC: 7
It is easy to enter a corner leaving a trail of smoke from the front outside tyre, then on exit the smoke is from the back outside tyre. Not fast but fun.
Again it felt like it lacked power, but drive it like a Miata (braking as little as possible, if at all) and its quite nice.
Ridox -- 2:57.115 -- DC: 8
ABS 0
Eiger: 1:21.220, DC: 8
Much easier to rotate than I thought it would for a FF. I didn't have any problems with the brakes locking up with ABS 0, but the braking distance is long.
Surprisingly good throttle control for steering. My best times were when the front tyres maintained a nice burnt orange color from the beginning of the switchback till its end.
I was 0.380 up on my ghost at the bottom of the hill on my last lap, but I always lost it on the bottom corner. If I could spend an hour getting the best out of this car then I'm sure I could get a very good time, but 15 laps just isn't enough with the braking distance.
Deep forest: 1:35.895, DC: 8
Very fun. Its easy to heat both the front wheels to nearly the same heat on longer corners and maintain that heat all the way through with as little steering as possible.
Understeer, or more appropriately, lack or rotation, hindered the cars times and DC score. There was never a corner where I thought, "I want less rotation."
Predictable.
ImToLegitToQuit -- 2:54.788 -- DC: 8
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.667, DC: 7.5
I liked the power and lack of entry understeer. There was a bit of mid corner understeer, which delayed throttle application, but it was controllable.
Besides that it's kinda... nice? Average? So good I don't notice any errors?
Consistent and predictable. A bit "too easy" to drive, very forgiving.
Deep Forest: 1:35.121, DC: 8.5
Throttle control was excellent here. I was able to keep the front tyres at a good heat for long periods of time. Unfortunately the cars reaction to throttle application was a smidge too snappy. This caused my to jiggle in the middle of corners as I tried to control the car with the throttle. But learning the car was fun, finding that sweet spot.
Krenkme -- 2:54.885 -- DC: 8
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.907, DC 8.5
Very consistent. On the first lap first corner I found the limit, passed it by a smidge. The rest of the time I never exceeded the cars limit, just rode between "rrrrrr" and "WRRrRRRRrR." Good rotation, no problems getting round these tight switchbacks. Not a lot of throttle steering, just a slight, ever so slight, push with too much throttle. On some corners it was beneficial to go full throttle and just keep turning the wheel to nose in.
I found that I benefited from what I think of as RTLOR, rally throttle loft off rotation. Instead of lifting all the way off the throttle to shift the weight and rotate the car I would keep some throttle, 5-10%, to keep the front tyres pulling the inward while still getting the benefit of weight shifts. I tried this with the other FFs in this challenge but didn't find is useful.
Deep Forest: 1:34.978 DC: 7.5
Very little understeer, except when I screw up. A very stable and predictable car. Except for that dang ill-timed body sway. I think its the front.
I'll go I to a shallow corner, no brake, lift off, turn in, throttle, the back stabilizes but the front keeps going back and forth, ruining my rhythm for the next corner.
The front tyres had a good ability to get up to and keep optimum temp. Good throttle, it responds well to throttle steer.
Randyrockstiff -- 2:56.980 -- DC: 5
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:20.290, DC: 6
Prediction: the fronts are going to get overloaded too easily... Result: yep.
Besides that good rhythm.
Everything about this car is limited by the too heavy front end. It's all good... But...
Deep Forest: 1:36.690, DC: 4
The rhythm of this car is far out of sync with this track.
The fronts overload far too easily. I'm often 10mph slower in corners than I could be.
The dread FF Problem rears its head high with this car. When I'm mid corner and the fronts overheat both more throttle, and less throttle (and braking) will lead to even more understeer. There is no correcting my line once I'm off it.
Xande -- 2:57.061 -- DC: 7.5
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:20.771, DC: 8
The car did exactly what I wanted when I wanted.
There was just a hint of understeer on entry and mid corner.
There was a large feeling that the car was "playing it safe," holding me back. It was fantastically easy to control but that limited its potential drastically.
Deep Forest: 1:36.290, DC: 7
It did what I want when I wanted, but felt filtered. Like traction control was on. I could push it to the limit fine, then it wouldn't let me control the car, it would keep under the limit.
DolHaus -- 2:54.659 -- DC: 8.75
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.548, DC: 8.5
Excellent braking control and distance.
Excellent braking to throttle transition. The car kept its rhythm well and was very predictable.
Nothing to criticize. Perhaps a shade too safe and stable. Rotation was a slight problem in the switchback, I couldn't apply throttle as much as I wanted without burning the fronts.
Deep Forest: 1:35.111, DC: 9
The entry into corner one is great fun. This car can be pushed and pushed and pushed. Never feel like I got everything out of it but dang I tried.
Shaunm80 -- 2:54.925 -- 9
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.778, DC: 9
Fantastic rotation control. Great throttle steering. Great braking distance and control. Nothing bad about this car, except:
The fronts like to give out a little earlier than I think they can.
This is the only car so far that I enjoyed the top complex. The car just flowed through it.
Deep Forest: 1:35.147, DC: 9
Fantastic, bla bla bla, great, bla bla, wonderful.
I just wish it had a smidge more front grip.
Otaliema -- 2:52.843 -- DC: 7
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:18.514, DC: 7
Very good times, but unstable.
Great braking distance.
Unfortunately the transition from braking to throttle kills this cars rhythm and drivability.
Deep Forest: 1:34.329, DC: 7
Uncomfortable. The Best Lap Time speaks for itself, but over half my laps were spin-outs and the throttle lift off made consistent steering almost impossible.
Gino -- 2:54.184 -- DC: 7.5
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.479, DC: 7.5
No rhythm. The stock gearbox is too long killing the powerband and throwing off timing. The car changes direction too much when changing between acceleration and deceleration. And the front and rear shift right-left at different speeds. This all throws off the cars rhythm and makes staying on line very difficult.
Eiger: 1:34.705, DC: 7.5
Again: no rhythm. For the same reasons as above. The car likes to get straight too much under throttle and rotate too much under braking.
Praiano63 -- 2:53.060 DC: 8.25
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.199, DC: 8
The car likes to stabalize /get-straight under braking.
Good all around, but perhaps a bit too safe. There's a slight disparity between acceleration and declaration, but its controllable and doesn't effect the steering too much.
Deep Forest: 1:33.861, DC: 8.5
More control in the throttle for controlling the rotation of the car. Very stable but a tad too safe.
Brian wolf -- 2:56.446 -- DC: 5.75
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:20.109, DC: 7.5
A great tune. Great braking distance. Great throttle steering.
But brake lift off ruins it. I'll be in the middle of a corner, trail braking and just as I lift off, no matter how gently, my front dives and and my back end goes out. This could have been a DC 9 car except for that. It ruins the rhythm completely. Smooth, smooth, smooth, woosh! It's OK on the switchback section, but any gently curves (such as the bottom corner or going uphill) and I'm losing time.
Deep Forest: 1:36.337, DC: 4
The brake lift off is even more accentuated here. The first corner is a horror. It isn't possibly to lift off gently enough so that I don't have to do some serious work with the wheel.
I got a Best Lap Time on lap 1 and fought the car every lap after that, spinning out on 3/4 of them. I was often up on my ghost by 0.700 but I couldn't keep the extra time and usually spun out.
Lionheart2113 -- 2:52.466 -- DC: 9
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:18.533, DC: 9.5
The Mary Poppins of tunes: practically perfect in every way. This cars average lap time was about one second faster than most other cars best times. Simply amazing. This car wasn't just fast, it was consistently fast. Not one spin out, not even close. An 'error' wouldn't spin me, it would make me lose my line by 2".
Fast, quick, and stable. Very predictable. My lap times kept improving just about every lap.
Deep Forest: 1:33.933, DC: 8.5
Fantastic balance. It's easy to find a good rhythm and stay on it.
The only problem is a slight emphasis on brake lift off rotation. It's not as predictable on these high speed sweepers as it is at tight switchbacks at Eiger. But it is still a joy to drive.
I'm finding that I can make a lot of correction to the wheel in a sweeper without losing any time. Very unusual and fun. Every other car I need to "saw" is slow.
Just like at Eiger my times are very close and the average is faster than others best times. Just a little more disparity due to BLOR.
Ronald6 -- 2:52.707 -- DC: 8
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:18.882, DC: 8
OK braking distance, racing brakes could have shortened without too much loss of control.
Good transition from deceleration and acceleration, but it could be better. Perhaps adjusting the front springs up or down by 0.01 till it's right. I think the front is 0.03 too soft.
There was a bit too much lateral body roll. Perhaps increasing the dampers each by 1 or the sway bars.
Perhaps an increase in the vehicles stability would make it possible to put more power down more often.
The lack of stability does make the hair fine adjustments necessary for control fun when I get it right. When I get a good lap I know it's me and not the car.
Deep Forest: 1:33.825, DC: 8
Even on the straights I can hear the tyres squeaking. Is that good or bad?
On the "bottom rung" corner before the uphill the throttle control is so exquisite that I can feel the difference between 80.6% and 80.7% throttle. At least it feels that way to me.
The cars balance is good enough that I can modulate back and forth 6 to 8 times in the longer corners and it doesn't disturb the cars balance.
Much more stable than I first thought it was at this track. Coming from Eiger I thought the car would be a DC of 7 at best, but its balance makes it easy to control on the edge, if not comfortable. Unlike Lionhearts tune my edge is a razor, his is a mile wide.
Under heavy braking this car BLORs a bit too much.
(I never tested here, I was hoping to make up my time at Eiger. Turns out I was about 0.4 seconds slower testing at Eiger than my fastest while tuning. And my time at Deep Forest was faster than anyone else's tune in my hands. Am I the only one who finds this humorous?)
If there is any reluctance to use my times or DC score for my own car please feel free to pull it.
If anyone wants it I have detailed notes from tuning the AE86 and MR2.
If anyone wants a more detailed review or has any questions feel free to ask.
I'm going to assume ABS 1.
Eiger: 1:20.153, DC: 5
Corner entry is plagued by understeer. If I shift the weight forward the front just pushes, if I throttle the car goes straight. Rotation is difficult and slow.
Mid corner is plagued by understeer. Same as entry. Because the car wants to straighten with throttle I can't get on the throttle till corner exit.
Exit is has equal slip. Counter steering is easy but slow.
Overall the car is stiff and difficult to rotate.
Deep Forest: 1:35.726, DC: 7
Understeer isn't as large a problem here. But it is still there. The disparity between braking and throttle also isn't as large a problem. But again it's still there. I can get on the gas much sooner in a corner than at Eiger. It's difficult to drive this car smoothly, the front goes from rotation to straight with any application of the throttle.
787bcgr -- 2:55.480 -- DC: 8
ABS 0
Eiger: 1:20.122, DC: 8
It's unfortunate that ABS is 0 on this car. It's killing the times.
Understeer on entry, especially the first three corners, is unavoidable. I never hit all three apexes in the 15 laps I'm giving each car. Strangely it's the INSIDE tyre that is overloaded first, not the outside tyre. To me thing strange is happening with the front tyre balance and its not good for traction.
Throttle transition is very good.
Deep forest: 1:35.385, DC: 8
Braking is easier here. But that inside tyre thing! It's killing my times and my line. If I can keep from overheating the inside tyre then it feels nice. But trying to keep the tyres at their peak can be confusing ("which tyre is it right now") and that ruins the cars predictability. Having to keep the inside tyre from overheating means I never get close to the outside tyres limit.
I like the cars soft suspension, good rhythm.
Nijalninja -- 2:55.180 -- DC: 7
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:20.191, DC: 7
I like the soft suspension, but the car lacks grunt. Keeping it under control is easy, mainly because there's not enough power to get into trouble. Plus side: very little understeer.
Deep Forest: 1:34.989, DC: 7
It is easy to enter a corner leaving a trail of smoke from the front outside tyre, then on exit the smoke is from the back outside tyre. Not fast but fun.
Again it felt like it lacked power, but drive it like a Miata (braking as little as possible, if at all) and its quite nice.
Ridox -- 2:57.115 -- DC: 8
ABS 0
Eiger: 1:21.220, DC: 8
Much easier to rotate than I thought it would for a FF. I didn't have any problems with the brakes locking up with ABS 0, but the braking distance is long.
Surprisingly good throttle control for steering. My best times were when the front tyres maintained a nice burnt orange color from the beginning of the switchback till its end.
I was 0.380 up on my ghost at the bottom of the hill on my last lap, but I always lost it on the bottom corner. If I could spend an hour getting the best out of this car then I'm sure I could get a very good time, but 15 laps just isn't enough with the braking distance.
Deep forest: 1:35.895, DC: 8
Very fun. Its easy to heat both the front wheels to nearly the same heat on longer corners and maintain that heat all the way through with as little steering as possible.
Understeer, or more appropriately, lack or rotation, hindered the cars times and DC score. There was never a corner where I thought, "I want less rotation."
Predictable.
ImToLegitToQuit -- 2:54.788 -- DC: 8
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.667, DC: 7.5
I liked the power and lack of entry understeer. There was a bit of mid corner understeer, which delayed throttle application, but it was controllable.
Besides that it's kinda... nice? Average? So good I don't notice any errors?
Consistent and predictable. A bit "too easy" to drive, very forgiving.
Deep Forest: 1:35.121, DC: 8.5
Throttle control was excellent here. I was able to keep the front tyres at a good heat for long periods of time. Unfortunately the cars reaction to throttle application was a smidge too snappy. This caused my to jiggle in the middle of corners as I tried to control the car with the throttle. But learning the car was fun, finding that sweet spot.
Krenkme -- 2:54.885 -- DC: 8
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.907, DC 8.5
Very consistent. On the first lap first corner I found the limit, passed it by a smidge. The rest of the time I never exceeded the cars limit, just rode between "rrrrrr" and "WRRrRRRRrR." Good rotation, no problems getting round these tight switchbacks. Not a lot of throttle steering, just a slight, ever so slight, push with too much throttle. On some corners it was beneficial to go full throttle and just keep turning the wheel to nose in.
I found that I benefited from what I think of as RTLOR, rally throttle loft off rotation. Instead of lifting all the way off the throttle to shift the weight and rotate the car I would keep some throttle, 5-10%, to keep the front tyres pulling the inward while still getting the benefit of weight shifts. I tried this with the other FFs in this challenge but didn't find is useful.
Deep Forest: 1:34.978 DC: 7.5
Very little understeer, except when I screw up. A very stable and predictable car. Except for that dang ill-timed body sway. I think its the front.
I'll go I to a shallow corner, no brake, lift off, turn in, throttle, the back stabilizes but the front keeps going back and forth, ruining my rhythm for the next corner.
The front tyres had a good ability to get up to and keep optimum temp. Good throttle, it responds well to throttle steer.
Randyrockstiff -- 2:56.980 -- DC: 5
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:20.290, DC: 6
Prediction: the fronts are going to get overloaded too easily... Result: yep.
Besides that good rhythm.
Everything about this car is limited by the too heavy front end. It's all good... But...
Deep Forest: 1:36.690, DC: 4
The rhythm of this car is far out of sync with this track.
The fronts overload far too easily. I'm often 10mph slower in corners than I could be.
The dread FF Problem rears its head high with this car. When I'm mid corner and the fronts overheat both more throttle, and less throttle (and braking) will lead to even more understeer. There is no correcting my line once I'm off it.
Xande -- 2:57.061 -- DC: 7.5
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:20.771, DC: 8
The car did exactly what I wanted when I wanted.
There was just a hint of understeer on entry and mid corner.
There was a large feeling that the car was "playing it safe," holding me back. It was fantastically easy to control but that limited its potential drastically.
Deep Forest: 1:36.290, DC: 7
It did what I want when I wanted, but felt filtered. Like traction control was on. I could push it to the limit fine, then it wouldn't let me control the car, it would keep under the limit.
DolHaus -- 2:54.659 -- DC: 8.75
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.548, DC: 8.5
Excellent braking control and distance.
Excellent braking to throttle transition. The car kept its rhythm well and was very predictable.
Nothing to criticize. Perhaps a shade too safe and stable. Rotation was a slight problem in the switchback, I couldn't apply throttle as much as I wanted without burning the fronts.
Deep Forest: 1:35.111, DC: 9
The entry into corner one is great fun. This car can be pushed and pushed and pushed. Never feel like I got everything out of it but dang I tried.
Shaunm80 -- 2:54.925 -- 9
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.778, DC: 9
Fantastic rotation control. Great throttle steering. Great braking distance and control. Nothing bad about this car, except:
The fronts like to give out a little earlier than I think they can.
This is the only car so far that I enjoyed the top complex. The car just flowed through it.
Deep Forest: 1:35.147, DC: 9
Fantastic, bla bla bla, great, bla bla, wonderful.
I just wish it had a smidge more front grip.
Otaliema -- 2:52.843 -- DC: 7
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:18.514, DC: 7
Very good times, but unstable.
Great braking distance.
Unfortunately the transition from braking to throttle kills this cars rhythm and drivability.
Deep Forest: 1:34.329, DC: 7
Uncomfortable. The Best Lap Time speaks for itself, but over half my laps were spin-outs and the throttle lift off made consistent steering almost impossible.
Gino -- 2:54.184 -- DC: 7.5
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.479, DC: 7.5
No rhythm. The stock gearbox is too long killing the powerband and throwing off timing. The car changes direction too much when changing between acceleration and deceleration. And the front and rear shift right-left at different speeds. This all throws off the cars rhythm and makes staying on line very difficult.
Eiger: 1:34.705, DC: 7.5
Again: no rhythm. For the same reasons as above. The car likes to get straight too much under throttle and rotate too much under braking.
Praiano63 -- 2:53.060 DC: 8.25
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:19.199, DC: 8
The car likes to stabalize /get-straight under braking.
Good all around, but perhaps a bit too safe. There's a slight disparity between acceleration and declaration, but its controllable and doesn't effect the steering too much.
Deep Forest: 1:33.861, DC: 8.5
More control in the throttle for controlling the rotation of the car. Very stable but a tad too safe.
Brian wolf -- 2:56.446 -- DC: 5.75
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:20.109, DC: 7.5
A great tune. Great braking distance. Great throttle steering.
But brake lift off ruins it. I'll be in the middle of a corner, trail braking and just as I lift off, no matter how gently, my front dives and and my back end goes out. This could have been a DC 9 car except for that. It ruins the rhythm completely. Smooth, smooth, smooth, woosh! It's OK on the switchback section, but any gently curves (such as the bottom corner or going uphill) and I'm losing time.
Deep Forest: 1:36.337, DC: 4
The brake lift off is even more accentuated here. The first corner is a horror. It isn't possibly to lift off gently enough so that I don't have to do some serious work with the wheel.
I got a Best Lap Time on lap 1 and fought the car every lap after that, spinning out on 3/4 of them. I was often up on my ghost by 0.700 but I couldn't keep the extra time and usually spun out.
Lionheart2113 -- 2:52.466 -- DC: 9
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:18.533, DC: 9.5
The Mary Poppins of tunes: practically perfect in every way. This cars average lap time was about one second faster than most other cars best times. Simply amazing. This car wasn't just fast, it was consistently fast. Not one spin out, not even close. An 'error' wouldn't spin me, it would make me lose my line by 2".
Fast, quick, and stable. Very predictable. My lap times kept improving just about every lap.
Deep Forest: 1:33.933, DC: 8.5
Fantastic balance. It's easy to find a good rhythm and stay on it.
The only problem is a slight emphasis on brake lift off rotation. It's not as predictable on these high speed sweepers as it is at tight switchbacks at Eiger. But it is still a joy to drive.
I'm finding that I can make a lot of correction to the wheel in a sweeper without losing any time. Very unusual and fun. Every other car I need to "saw" is slow.
Just like at Eiger my times are very close and the average is faster than others best times. Just a little more disparity due to BLOR.
Ronald6 -- 2:52.707 -- DC: 8
ABS 1
Eiger: 1:18.882, DC: 8
OK braking distance, racing brakes could have shortened without too much loss of control.
Good transition from deceleration and acceleration, but it could be better. Perhaps adjusting the front springs up or down by 0.01 till it's right. I think the front is 0.03 too soft.
There was a bit too much lateral body roll. Perhaps increasing the dampers each by 1 or the sway bars.
Perhaps an increase in the vehicles stability would make it possible to put more power down more often.
The lack of stability does make the hair fine adjustments necessary for control fun when I get it right. When I get a good lap I know it's me and not the car.
Deep Forest: 1:33.825, DC: 8
Even on the straights I can hear the tyres squeaking. Is that good or bad?
On the "bottom rung" corner before the uphill the throttle control is so exquisite that I can feel the difference between 80.6% and 80.7% throttle. At least it feels that way to me.
The cars balance is good enough that I can modulate back and forth 6 to 8 times in the longer corners and it doesn't disturb the cars balance.Much more stable than I first thought it was at this track. Coming from Eiger I thought the car would be a DC of 7 at best, but its balance makes it easy to control on the edge, if not comfortable. Unlike Lionhearts tune my edge is a razor, his is a mile wide.
Under heavy braking this car BLORs a bit too much.
(I never tested here, I was hoping to make up my time at Eiger. Turns out I was about 0.4 seconds slower testing at Eiger than my fastest while tuning. And my time at Deep Forest was faster than anyone else's tune in my hands. Am I the only one who finds this humorous?)
If there is any reluctance to use my times or DC score for my own car please feel free to pull it.
If anyone wants it I have detailed notes from tuning the AE86 and MR2.
If anyone wants a more detailed review or has any questions feel free to ask.
Last edited:
👍
.
My place improved because I couldn't drive my tune as well as the rest of the testers. There was a standard eeffect in that their times dropped, the viper strike was not a super tight race so little movement and we only had 3 tuner/testers. Past challenges that were much tighter the podium could have shifted allot. 
