FM7 vs. PCars 2 vs. GT:Sport

[C_Raccoon23]

I'll explain it better since I'm being confusing by mixing terminology. GTS isn't dynamic but has the capability to do so easily because the lighting is calculated realtime if that makes sense. So all the shadows are calculated based on where the sun is whenever you load in with whatever TOD, in Forza they aren't and are just baked in because they use a far less resource intensive lighting solution.

Please, the event list is the worst creation ever like it couldn't be any more boring and you'd race on the exact same layouts and series of cars over and over, it didn't even try and make them interesting!

Just look at it, literally couldn't be more uninspired. Now if you only played career and online then you could argue Forza 4 was better but for 100% completion took me two years to build up the will power to complete it and that was only because I had decided to sell off my Xbox 360 and go PC.

Honestly Forza 4, Halo 5 and Uncharted 3 were the games which made me give up on consoles and AAA games because the sequels are all too similar and take no risks. Maybe I enjoyed GT5 more because Forza 4 was just a slightly upgraded Forza 3 with too much crap filler slapped on to pad game length.

GT5 is just as guilty of what you’re accusing Forza 4 of, if not worse. GT5 was notoriously grind heavy because of how poorly thought out the level system was. Car availability being tied to your level didn’t help either.

And why did you bother 100% completing Forza 4 if you found it boring?

 

[F Inferno]

I really don't even think the lighting is calculated in real time. It makes more sense, and is less resource-consuming to just used baked in scenarios the whole time, just adjusting them for the different times of day. Unless a lightsource runs through them, and projects shadows from things like vehicles headlights, I doubt it's calculated in real time(something which I think Forza does as well, but can't recall, I'd have to look it up.) They can still use the suns position as it doesn't move, and just bake them in just like Forza. If anything, its just showing that they take more time with their configurations of TOD than Forza does.


Um, neither did the games he mentioned I don't see whats really different between the two. They both have specific requirements for the race you're going into. GT just was extremely lacking in comparison.


To be honest, to this day, I still much prefer that system. GT5 was literally no better, and was extremely lacking in that regard, The only difference being is that they had a picture associated to the cup you're about to enter, where as you'd have to hover over each box on Forza to see it.


And the risks they took came at the expense of game functionality. Just taking risks isn't enough to make me say "wow they tried, and they failed, but hey, they tried I guess." I'm not sure how that makes it a better scenario. As for filler, I'm not sure what filler there is. These games have cars, they have tracks, and different layouts, theres not much more to add filler into there.

They aren't that different no but GT at least tries to add variety to them or have more meaningful series' and I always enjoyed the license tests and special events which Forza had none off.

The event list in Forza 4 was literally just a copy paste job with tracks and then a random selection of cars with no thought put into it at all. There could have been half as many and it still would have been boring and repetitive filler, it just has no soul.

I actually thought the same of GT4 when that came out, could just be the case of going from FM3/GT3 to FM4/GT4 with close release dates where it's just more of the same is an issue for me. Certainly the Horizon 3 DLC bored me very quickly as it is just more of the same unlock process and I can't really be bothered right now but I will complete Hot Wheels at some point.

GT5 is just as guilty of what you’re accusing Forza 4 of, if not worse. GT5 was notoriously grind heavy because of how poorly thought out the level system was. Car availability being tied to your level didn’t help either.

And why did you bother 100% completing Forza 4 if you found it boring?

OCD is a real bitch!

 

[ImaRobot]

They aren't that different no but GT at least tries to add variety to them or have more meaningful series' and I always enjoyed the license tests and special events which Forza had none off.

Which doesn't really make sense, because there was plenty of variety within the mode you're complaining about as well. They managed to get so many different classes and tracks. If anything they managed to cover a wide area of the content they had available, compared to GT with it's 1000+ cars. License test where the most horrible aspect of that game, to be honest. I can't recall, but weren't you restricted to certain classes if you didn't complete them? As for special events, what exactly are you talking about?

The event list in Forza 4 was literally just a copy paste job with tracks and then a random selection of cars with no thought put into it at all. There could have been half as many and it still would have been boring and repetitive filler, it just has no soul.

I can't wrap my head around how you thought Forza's was boring, by offering vastly more selection, even letting you open up a class that lets you basically use whatever you want on the side, but not GT's straightforward selection with nothing more to it. It's like you're purposely misconstruing things here, or you're just being willfully ignorant in this area.

What I think you're mixing things up is that you're purposely using the EVENT CHECK LIST as if it represented the career mode, solely, when it absolutely did not. That was just there if you did not want to follow the WORLD TOUR part of the career mode that offered a progression-like career mode with a certain amount of events to complete, much like GT. The event-list is practically the end game, not the first.

Either way, to be honest, neither of them were stellar, but to act like Forza was the worse one is a bit odd to me. However, I much preferred the openness that was the Event List.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Honestly Forza 4, Halo 5 and Uncharted 3 were the games which made me give up on consoles and AAA games because the sequels are all too similar and take no risks. Maybe I enjoyed GT5 more because Forza 4 was just a slightly upgraded Forza 3 with too much crap filler slapped on to pad game length.

I thought Forza 4 was quite a bit better than 3. Forza 3 was a huge let down, they removed tuning from lobbies, removed the ability to create a public lobby, removed local leaderboards, time trials, exhibition modes and made it to where there were no cars to win in career mode, basically taking away any incentive to run the career mode races. Then they messed up the lighting, bright sun in your face on a few tracks ruining the experience and then they messed up the PI so that you pretty much had to drive an AWD car to be competitive on most tracks in most classes.

Forza 4 brought back public lobbies, fixed the PI issues that favor AWD cars, added rivals and a few other things. Career was pointless but rivals, online racing [not in the hoppers, hoppers are horrible] user created lobbies are good if you get people in them.

I enjoyed GT5 a lot it filled the gap between FM3 and 4 quite nicely though I played and enjoyed all three of them. I also enjoyed GT6 and FM6 though I skipped FM5 along the way.

 

[F Inferno]

Which doesn't really make sense, because there was plenty of variety within the mode you're complaining about as well. They managed to get so many different classes and tracks. If anything they managed to cover a wide area of the content they had available, compared to GT with it's 1000+ cars. License test where the most horrible aspect of that game, to be honest. I can't recall, but weren't you restricted to certain classes if you didn't complete them? As for special events, what exactly are you talking about?


I can't wrap my head around how you thought Forza's was boring, by offering vastly more selection, even letting you open up a class that lets you basically use whatever you want on the side, but not GT's straightforward selection with nothing more to it. It's like you're purposely misconstruing things here, or you're just being willfully ignorant in this area.

What I think you're mixing things up is that you're purposely using the EVENT CHECK LIST as if it represented the career mode, solely, when it absolutely did not. That was just there if you did not want to follow the WORLD TOUR part of the career mode that offered a progression-like career mode with a certain amount of events to complete, much like GT. The event-list is practically the end game, not the first.

Either way, to be honest, neither of them were stellar, but to act like Forza was the worse one is a bit odd to me. However, I much preferred the openness that was the Event List.

If you went down one column (within the same series) all the races were exactly the same order of tracks but just different cars.

Ok if you just wanted to pick what you are in the mood for and had no interest in completing it all I guess it's ok but if you were it was just so damn repetitive. Yes GT5 late game sucked too having to grind the last few levels doing the same course over and over but that is literally the entire event list in Forza 4 and in GT5 it only unlocked the 24hr races late game anyway which I'm betting most people had no intention of ever doing.

The career was setup differently sure but it also only included about 15% of the total event list so you couldn't use it to complete the game in a more interesting fashion because events just started repeating and it repeated pretty fast from what I remember, I kept going back and forth between the career and event list to see which ones to skip.

Not sure about restrictions as they licenses would be the first thing I'd do in every one until I had all golds and unlocked the bonus cars. Given how terrible most people online are I don't think it's a bad thing to have them learn some basic driving concepts.

In GT5 you had the standard license tests and then some more hardcore special events culminating in an absolutely savage two-lap TT on Nurburgring in the Red Bull X2010, that one took me quite sometime to string two perfect laps together in something so damn fast, especially as I was using a DS4 back then.

I bought GT for its structured career, if you want choice then surely just setting up your own races is the only way to go?

I thought Forza 4 was quite a bit better than 3. Forza 3 was a huge let down, they removed tuning from lobbies, removed the ability to create a public lobby, removed local leaderboards, time trials, exhibition modes and made it to where there were no cars to win in career mode, basically taking away any incentive to run the career mode races. Then they messed up the lighting, bright sun in your face on a few tracks ruining the experience and then they messed up the PI so that you pretty much had to drive an AWD car to be competitive on most tracks in most classes.

Forza 4 brought back public lobbies, fixed the PI issues that favor AWD cars, added rivals and a few other things. Career was pointless but rivals, online racing [not in the hoppers, hoppers are horrible] user created lobbies are good if you get people in them.

I enjoyed GT5 a lot it filled the gap between FM3 and 4 quite nicely though I played and enjoyed all three of them. I also enjoyed GT6 and FM6 though I skipped FM5 along the way.

I'm mostly a singleplayer guy, I only really played FM1 & 2 online and I'm still bitter they removed automatic uploading of leaderboard tunes, mostly because I was in the top 10 on the overall TT leaderboard pre-reset and 2nd on autocross in FM2, now without a top tune to easily download (or knowing how to tune which I've yet to do) the top times are impossible to get close to.

I guess it depends a lot on what you are looking for.

 

[CSLACR]

Just been setting up my Accuforce on it, started up the race, oh **** FFB is inverted at full force with my F1 rim on it!!

I'm not sure you quoted the right quote.
But does that mean you have FFB now? If so, good, I think you'll find it's not so terrible as some claim.

I have not played PCars2 so i will leave it out of the comparison.

I play GT Sport on the Pro and Forza 7 on a 4k PC, run both games on an LG 55" B7 OLED, both games of course with HDR, so i think i get the best possible image from both games.
That being said: GT Sport ist to me a clear winner except resolution and the amount of cars and tracks. It is overall the better racing game (be it sim or simcade, i dont care, i only rate fun, immersion and optics.

What does GT Sport better than Forza? The following:

- GTSport plays with a controller way better, you understand what the car is doing whereas in Forza cars snap on you out of nowhere (lift-off oversteer syndrome) and i can feel the cars weight and tyres working better in GTSport.
- It has a superior lighting model and HDR
- It has better car models and cockpit materials.
- It has overall to me better sounds when not counting only the engine but the ambience sounds too
- It may not have the semi-dynamic weather of FM7 but the 5-6 different times of day to choose from for every(!) track (i look at you FM7) offers me more of a sense of different weather/time than what FM7 offers overall. GT Sport can also be really bright or really dim/atmospheric, whereas FM7 often appears even in sunny conditions dimmed down.
- It has dynamic shadows even though they look a bit worse than on Forza, but give the whole image a more realistic look
- The cars have Ambient Occlusion, they have self-shadowing which makes the models look more lifelike
- Cars move better on the track because they have proper suspension and bodyroll. I mean optics wise, not physics wise. In Forza cars look very stiff
- Replays are out of this world in GTSport. Forza 7 in comparison has very bad cam angles, bad cuts, annoying action cams and the cars move at times really odd
- Menu design and soundtrack are pure joy in GT Sport whereas Forzas menus lag and that annoying rock soundtrack with 3 songs gets on your nerves pretty fast
- Obviously the multiplayer in GT Sport is sublime in comparison to Forza 7. For a casual competitive racing game its very clean racing overall. Have driven due to current lack of tracks in GT Sport the same tracks countless times now but in multiplayer they never get old when you have nice races. Every race feels like a fresh experience, whereas in Forza you sort of need that many tracks in order to not get bored because all you do is racing the crash-kiddies-imitating AI (i.e. Drivatars)

Polyphony Digital simply has the better designers and artists at work. It shows in the attention to detail in almost every facet of the game whereas Forza tries to be the loud rough and noisy guy.
To me GT Sport celebrates the art of the car, a purists passion can be seen in the game even it it lacks the content.

Oh, and i get why Forza 7 got racing-GOTY. Its more mass appealing with those 700 cars and 32 tracks, it looks just more accessible, easy to pick up. GT (Sport) just is not that (anymore) but for a car lover it offers more as a package.

And by no means i am saying that Forza 7 is a bad game. And all aspects i listed in favor of GTS are not "bad" in Forza 7. They are just not as good.

I disagree with most of what you've said, but thank you for being able to say what you like about GTS. It seems like almost everyone that likes GTS that comes into these threads is completely incapable of it.

For it's time GT5 was amazing

GT5 was the most disappointing game I've ever bought. In pretty much every way possible.
I think pretty much everyone remembers GT5 after some updates, even moreso after "spec 2.0" or whatever it was called.
The original, out-of-the-box GT5 was a completely abysmal game.

 

[F Inferno]

I'm not sure you quoted the right quote.
But does that mean you have FFB now? If so, good, I think you'll find it's not so terrible as some claim.

I disagree with most of what you've said, but thank you for being able to say what you like about GTS. It seems like almost everyone that likes GTS that comes into these threads is completely incapable of it.


GT5 was the most disappointing game I've ever bought. In pretty much every way possible.
I think pretty much everyone remembers GT5 after some updates, even moreso after "spec 2.0" or whatever it was called.
The original, out-of-the-box GT5 was a completely abysmal game.

I thought if was alright on the CSW V2, on the Accuforce I needed to make some adjustments as the stock settings weren't great like the FFB was pulsating in force around and over the limit. Still isn't great though, really gives no info on how much grip you have, one second you do the next it's gone with no warning.

I did the Porsche RSR challenge again to compare lowered sensitivity to 50% and DOR to 450 which helped the most in going quicker but I wasn't driving on feel but memory as lots of corners it would just lose traction.

Possibly I didn't get it on launch but much later after Forza 4 disappointed me and I went in expecting it to be terrible based on forums.

 

[CSLACR]

I thought if was alright on the CSW V2, on the Accuforce I needed to make some adjustments as the stock settings weren't great like the FFB was pulsating in force around and over the limit. Still isn't great though, really gives no info on how much grip you have, one second you do the next it's gone with no warning.

That's weird, I keep hearing that, but I can tell exactly when it's on the limit.
I have to wonder if I'm picking up things other people can't, or perhaps it's just all the different wheels.

Possibly I didn't get it on launch but much later after Forza 4 disappointed me and I went in expecting it to be terrible based on forums.

Well, it kinda sounds like you waited till Forza 4 was 100%, but either way, there was never anything really "great" about GT5 for it's time. That was actually the main complaint, from what I saw.

You're talking about a game which, after these updates was 6 years into the console's lifespan, and it was still the only "real" game they'd come up with. It wasn't until new consoles released that they managed a sequel.
For it's time? Light years behind.

 

[Ialyrn]

That's weird, I keep hearing that, but I can tell exactly when it's on the limit.
I have to wonder if I'm picking up things other people can't, or perhaps it's just all the different wheels.


Well, it kinda sounds like you waited till Forza 4 was 100%, but either way, there was never anything really "great" about GT5 for it's time. That was actually the main complaint, from what I saw.

You're talking about a game which, after these updates was 6 years into the console's lifespan, and it was still the only "real" game they'd come up with. It wasn't until new consoles released that they managed a sequel.
For it's time? Light years behind.

Probable isnt helping their case that the Accurforce wheel isnt a supported device at this time for FM7 on the PC - https://www.gtplanet.net/forza-motorsport-7-pc-supported-peripheral-list-released/

• Microsoft Xbox 360 Controller
• Microsoft Xbox 360 Controller
• Microsoft Xbox One Controller
• Microsoft Xbox One Elite Controller
• Microsoft Xbox One S/X Controller
• Sony Dual Shock 4
• Fanatec CSR
• Fanatec CSR Elite
• Fanatec ClubSport V2
• Fanatec ClubSport V1
• Fanatec CSL
• Fanatec ClubSport V2.5
• Logitech G29
• Logitech Driving Force Pro
• Logitech G25
• Logitech Driving Force GT
• Logitech G27
• Logitech MOMO
• Logitech G920
• Thrustmaster RGT
• Thrustmaster T100
• Thrustmaster T500 RS
• Thrustmaster T300 Ferrari
• Thrustmaster T300 Ferrari GTE
• Thrustmaster T300 Ferrari Int
• Thrustmaster T300 RS
• Thrustmaster T300 RS GT
• Thrustmaster T150
• Thrustmaster T150 Pro
• Thrustmaster TS-PC Racer
• Thrustmaster TX 458
• Thrustmaster TX Leather
• Thrustmaster 458 Spider
• Thrustmaster TMX
• Thrustmaster TMX Pro
• Thrustmaster TS-Xbox
• Mad Catz Pro

 

[F Inferno]

That's weird, I keep hearing that, but I can tell exactly when it's on the limit.
I have to wonder if I'm picking up things other people can't, or perhaps it's just all the different wheels.


Well, it kinda sounds like you waited till Forza 4 was 100%, but either way, there was never anything really "great" about GT5 for it's time. That was actually the main complaint, from what I saw.

You're talking about a game which, after these updates was 6 years into the console's lifespan, and it was still the only "real" game they'd come up with. It wasn't until new consoles released that they managed a sequel.
For it's time? Light years behind.

You can tell if you are already in the the turn but quick directional changes and corner entry it has no feedback because it doesn't have any vertical load FFB. For example when you go through Eau Rouge on Spa you should feel the car loading up as it presses the car down but in Forza 7 that doesn't happen, nor can you feel the weight of the Formula Truck vs. a touring car they both feel the same mass wise although that's probably just a physics issue as they are nothing like the real thing looks/Automobilista version.

I've literally just gone through and setup my Accuforce with every sim on the market (bar iRacing) and it's the only one which has the issue. I've only tried stock settings and then understeer setting at 25% which was better, maybe more tinkering is required.

(EDIT: Actually just remembered Dirt Rally had a similar problem but I just turned off game FFB and used the physics based FFB option in Sim Commander to fix it, unfortunately Forza 7 doesn't allow telemetry to external apps otherwise I bet it would be easy to fix)

What are your settings?

I'm not overly bothered by it driving like that as drifts are so easy to control unlike in full sims and I got it for fun not to compete with them.

I actually went back to Forza 4 after a year break to make an effort to finish the event list because it burnt me out the first time and I must have played GT5 in the middle and decided if I was happy to grind in that Forza should be no problem but I still didn't enjoy it.

Probable isnt helping their case that the Accurforce wheel isnt a supported device at this time for FM7 on the PC - https://www.gtplanet.net/forza-motorsport-7-pc-supported-peripheral-list-released/

Except it got added in the creators update as an officially supported device...

I also have the CSW V2 which I did most of my testing on and still felt the same about it. The reason it feels worse on an Accuforce is simply because the wheel reacts almost instantly to the FFB so things which felt smooth on the V2 because it reacted slower you realise are actually weird FFB pulses where the two main physics forces they are using to calculate FFB feel like they are fighting each other for control.

 

[Ialyrn]

Except it got added in the creators update as an officially supported device...

I also have the CSW V2 which I did most of my racing on and still felt the same about it.

Creators update is windows 10 made by Microsoft, not Forza motorsport 7 and made by Turn 10. If it specifically states it enables support in Forza 7, then I am going to need to see something from T10 studios or Microsoft stating that the Accuforce is now supported in Forza Motorsport 7; because I have not seen anything of the like from T10.

 

[PJTierney]

Since it's relevant to this thread, enjoy:

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/art...ing-franchises-pushed-each-other-to-the-limit

 

[F Inferno]

Creators update is windows 10 made by Microsoft, not Forza motorsport 7 and made by Turn 10. If it specifically states it enables support in Forza 7, then I am going to need to see something from T10 studios or Microsoft stating that the Accuforce is now supported in Forza Motorsport 7; because I have not seen anything of the like from T10.

T10 are Microsoft owned and the ones who worked on getting wheel support into UWP apps for MS, SimX also sent out a wheel to Turn10 to test and get working on it, they also ordered some Heusinkveld pedals to test which also aren't on the list but still work fine.

I'm very confused by what you are actually arguing right now? Do you think FFB works differently per wheel and any wheel not on the list automatically is wrong? Prior to the creators update there was no FFB at all, now it's supported it works exactly the same as my CSW V2 it's just a much better wheel.

Kind of like average speakers vs. high end speakers it shows up missing detail in low quality music that lower quality ones wouldn't. That's why they let you switch off game FFB and use better telemetry based FFB in their software for older titles where the FFB was tailored around lower fidelity wheels like the G27 as that was the best you could get for a reasonable price at the time.

I'm not sure why you think an official announcement changes anything or why they would bother for one wheel when they are notoriously bad at communicating with the community about issues. If you don't want to believe me that it works that's fine, I really don't care.

 

[Ialyrn]

T10 are Microsoft owned and the ones who worked on getting wheel support into UWP apps for MS, SimX also sent out a wheel to Turn10 to test and get working on it, they also ordered some Heusinkveld pedals to test which also aren't on the list but still work fine.

I know Microsoft own T10 studios, but T10 studios do not make OS wide updates. They make a game, they have nothing to do with windows besides making that game.

Using an unsupported wheel in any racing game can potentially cause issues with regards to force feedback. Some wheels handle that scenario better than others. Having microsoft add UWP support for a certain device is not the same as T10 adding support for said device within their video game.

So again, I am going to ask you to provide citation as to where T10 studios and/or Microsoft have stated that the Accuforce wheel is a support device for use with Forza Motorsport 7?

I'm very confused by what you are actually arguing right now? Do you think FFB works differently per wheel and any wheel not on the list automatically is wrong? Prior to the creators update there was no FFB at all, now it's supported it works exactly the same as my CSW V2 it's just a much better wheel.

I never stated that the wheels work different at all, I asked for citation as to where T10 and/or microsoft have stated that the accuforce wheel you use is now supported within Forza Motorsport 7. UWP support and in game support are not the same thing. UWP is a platform within windows, not an individual piece of software within that platform.

I dont see why you are trying to side track away from my question, it was rather clear that I want you to prove what you have stated as fact. It is your responsibility as the person who stated that fact to back it up, not mine. So, citation please.

 

[F Inferno]

I know Microsoft own T10 studios, but T10 studios do not make OS wide updates. They make a game, they have nothing to do with windows besides making that game.

Using an unsupported wheel in any racing game can potentially cause issues with regards to force feedback. Some wheels handle that scenario better than others. Having microsoft add UWP support for a certain device is not the same as T10 adding support for said device within their video game.

So again, I am going to ask you to provide citation as to where T10 studios and/or Microsoft have stated that the Accuforce wheel is a support device for use with Forza Motorsport 7?



I never stated that the wheels work different at all, I asked for citation as to where T10 and/or microsoft have stated that the accuforce wheel you use is now supported within Forza Motorsport 7. UWP support and in game support are not the same thing. UWP is a platform within windows, not an individual piece of software within that platform.

I dont see why you are trying to side track away from my question, it was rather clear that I want you to prove what you have stated as fact. It is your responsibility as the person who stated that fact to back it up, not mine. So, citation please.

Lol, Turn10 are in fact the ones who worked on wheel support platform wide with MS on UWP you can go read about it if you want, that was the whole point of making Apex in preparation for other Forza titles as in their infinite wisdom they removed basic direct input controllers from UWP blocking the ability to use any wheel you want.

We’re extremely excited to announce that today’s content update for Apex will bring wheel support to the Forza Motorsport series on Windows 10 for the first time. This is a major landmark for the Forza series on Windows 10 and has been the result of months of hard work from the Turn 10 and Windows teams.

https://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/fm6a_wheel_support

If it wasn't supported it wouldn't work at all like it didn't before the latest windows update. This isn't some cheap G27 emulation through drivehub or gimx tricking it into thinking it's a different wheel but like I said you are happy to think what you like. You can go read the 90 page thread on the official forums "FFB is it fixed yet" one of the T10 devs is in there talking about what wheels/pedals he is testing with and the Accuforce is one of them.

You won't even find anything saying an Accuforce works after the creators update let alone MS or T10 saying so because there aren't that many owners for a start and those who do almost all aren't interested in Forza. Explain to me how it makes any sense to announce support for one niche wheel in a huge platform update. I think it was only mentioned on the forums that the creators update would include Accuforce support and it did, simple as that.

Like I said I still don't know what you are arguing, it's working as expected, the game sends the exact same FFB data to the wheel as it does any other wheel and it reacts that's all there is to it. You seem to be trying to claim the reason I have an issue with the FFB is because the Accuforce isn't supported when I've told you I played it on a CSW V2 and it still wasn't giving any vertical load FFB through Eau Rouge because it's just not there in the FFB. Literally the only difference is I could feel the FFB pulsating purely because the Accuforce reacts much faster than belt driven wheels which can't show that detail. I even have an XB1 hub and tried it in XB1 mode (which doesn't even get detected until you start a Forza game) same result.

A PC is also not a console it doesn't need explicit game support if it already allows custom wheels to be mapped (that's the whole point of them including a custom wheel option!) and the windows drivers are able to communicate with it then it will just work. Having a preset game profile just means the buttons are already set for you, not a single one of the advanced FFB options gets changed.

Anyway you can argue all you want, I've got two wheels right in front of me that I've played it on and know I'm right, I don't need to prove anything to you. If you don't want to believe me for whatever strange reason which I still don't understand then so be it.

 

[Ialyrn]

You won't even find anything saying an Accuforce works after the creators update let alone MS or T10 saying so because there aren't that many owners for a start and those who do almost all aren't interested in Forza. Explain to me how it makes any sense to announce support for one niche wheel in a huge platform update. I think it was only mentioned on the forums that the creators update would include Accuforce support and it did, simple as that.

Again, citation needed.

I am not saying you do not have any FFB on your wheel, I am asking to to provide the official documentation from T10 and/or Microsoft stating that they added support for your wheel into Forza Motorsport 7, not the UWP platform. Stop moving the goal posts, and stop circling around my question in an attempt to avoid it. Either back up what you are claiming as actual fact, or stop spreading misinformation around that will confuse the issue for anyone who is looking to confirm if FM7 has full support, or not, for the Accuforce (and other) wheels that are not currently listed in the supported FM7 peripheral list that I posted earlier.

You can go read the 90 page thread on the official forums "FFB is it fixed yet" one of the T10 devs is in there talking about what wheels/pedals he is testing with and the Accuforce is one of them.

By the way, if you actually go over to that exact same thread; you will see that I am a very regular poster within it. I know what Aaron stated, and I know he was testing other devices. Testing them is not the same as released compatibility, it just means they are working towards supporting more hardware combinations in the future. As well as working on other features for wheels and force feedback, such as soft locking.

What you are not getting is that UWP as a platform may allow your wheel to work, but the software video game called Forza Motorsport 7 does not currently do so. The fact your wheel works in the game, is like me saying my Thrustmaster T300 and logitech G920 wheels both work in Dirt 2. Working is not the same as fully supported.

 

[Zero7159]

Creators update is windows 10 made by Microsoft, not Forza motorsport 7 and made by Turn 10. If it specifically states it enables support in Forza 7, then I am going to need to see something from T10 studios or Microsoft stating that the Accuforce is now supported in Forza Motorsport 7; because I have not seen anything of the like from T10.

Don't hold your breath waiting for "official support" confirmation that may never come, direct drive wheels are a tiny portion of the overall PC wheel market and are very niche. Nonetheless, while you are waiting, we are enjoying using our Accuforce wheels with full FFB in Forza 7. My Main Performance PC Simpedals and button box/paddle shifters also work just fine. That being said, my Thrustmaster THR8S shifter is NOT working now for some reason, it was working fine before I installed the Creators Update.

 

[F Inferno]

Again, citation needed.

I am not saying you do not have any FFB on your wheel, I am asking to to provide the official documentation from T10 and/or Microsoft stating that they added support for your wheel into Forza Motorsport 7, not the UWP platform. Stop moving the goal posts, and stop circling around my question in an attempt to avoid it. Either back up what you are claiming as actual fact, or stop spreading misinformation around that will confuse the issue for anyone who is looking to confirm if FM7 has full support, or not, for the Accuforce (and other) wheels that are not currently listed in the supported FM7 peripheral list that I posted earlier.



By the way, if you actually go over to that exact same thread; you will see that I am a very regular poster within it. I know what Aaron stated, and I know he was testing other devices. Testing them is not the same as released compatibility, it just means they are working towards supporting more hardware combinations in the future. As well as working on other features for wheels and force feedback, such as soft locking.

What you are not getting is that UWP as a platform may allow your wheel to work, but the software video game called Forza Motorsport 7 does not currently do so. The fact your wheel works in the game, is like me saying my Thrustmaster T300 and logitech G920 wheels both work in Dirt 2. Working is not the same as fully supported.

I'm not moving any goal posts, your the one making posts of any kind and I'm simply asking what's your point?

The Accuforce works fine unlike OSW or Bodnar Wheels, there is nothing more to it but you seem obsessed with this 'full support' nonsense as if it means anything. I used a 'fully supported' wheel and my thoughts were exactly the same so tell me what relevance what you are obsessing about has?

 

[Zero7159]

Here is a screenshot of an iRacing forum post from Berney Villers, the owner of Simxperience, confirming support for the Accuforce with Forza 7 on Windows 10 PCs.

 

[05XR8]

Any reason Assetto Corsa is not part of this "versus"? I just acquired the game on XBONE and it's been awesome.
The one thing the old Forza had, was the custom championship. AC has just risen to the top for me, because they included this feature.
Not only can AI cars be assigned and assigned liveries, I can also rename them. My championships are saved in a list. as well as which round I'm up to and who is leading in points(points structure is adjustable by presets as well).

Like PC2, AC doesn't have a livery editor, but the custom c'hip has me spending that much time as I would making a livery for a car. Even with AC's 16 car grid and "small" car count(I have all the DLC about 180 cars total), it's limitless in what can be done. From making my own Alfa Romeo Day to creating a Porsche Rennsport track day to making an all in featuring an F2004 down to a Abarth 500 essess sharing the track. Perfect game for the offline player. Online? i haven't checked it out. Might not ever, but i didn't think I'd find the time to play another game besides PC2.

I'd pit the graphics as smoother looking models than PC2. However, I feel PC2 have more detailing. Replays are the only downside. 3 minutes capped for racing, but Hot laps are much longer. I mainly play racing games to watch replays.

From what I've seen in FM7 & GTS, from two giants, they're lacking those few key features that would make them great. AC doesn't even have changeable weather or wet tracks. Yet, it just about doesn't need them. At least, i'm not missing that feature in AC.

Tracks. If I were on PC, the amount of mods for AC is ridiculous. As it stands on console, the selection has kept my interest. There ain't many, but trying many cars around each one, with the nice physics, hasn't bored me yet I'm not a fan of the Black Cat circuits, but having Mugello, Zandvoort, Vallelunga, damn near make up for it( I think Laguna Seca is coming, as it is available for PC). I seriously advise anyone that plays offline, to pick it up. That custom championship feature alone, is worth it.

 

[CSLACR]

You can tell if you are already in the the turn but quick directional changes and corner entry it has no feedback because it doesn't have any vertical load FFB. For example when you go through Eau Rouge on Spa you should feel the car loading up as it presses the car down but in Forza 7 that doesn't happen, nor can you feel the weight of the Formula Truck vs. a touring car they both feel the same mass wise although that's probably just a physics issue as they are nothing like the real thing looks/Automobilista version.

I agree. But driving a more regular street car on a flat-ish surface, I find it feeling more realistic than GT and AC, presumably PCars too. Those were all always too heavy for regular road cars. (maybe some higher end sports and supercars, but pretty much any modern-ish dd has very light steering and quick response.)

 

[GTsimms]

^ Well, I would not go as far as Project CARS 2. It's the first sim, that I really noticed the suspension tightening as in real life around the 100-/+ mph area. But, compared to driving at 100+ on a norm. I would say, that I really enjoy Project CARS 2 tires! They may not be perfect, but they feel really good and to me the best in sim racing to this date! It's not like you are driving a 25-55 mph death trap in turns!

 

[GTPVenomZombie]

Now that I own all three, and have played all three. I think they're all unique in their own ways.

Gameplay: All of them!

Graphics: All of them!

Car list: Forza Motorsport 7

Track list: Forza Motorsport 7/Project Cars 2

Fun Factor: Forza Motorsports 7

Simulation model: Project Cars 2

Main menu/Navigation: Gran Turismo Sport

Game cover art: Project Cars 2 Collectors edition (it's beautiful!)

Online: Gran Turismo Sport

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I agree. But driving a more regular street car on a flat-ish surface, I find it feeling more realistic than GT and AC, presumably PCars too. Those were all always too heavy for regular road cars. (maybe some higher end sports and supercars, but pretty much any modern-ish dd has very light steering and quick response.)

Not in PCars 1 or 2. You can tune the steering on the car, you can alter the weight of the wheel and the steering ratio for each car.

You'd be surprised how much you can alter the weight of the steering with caster adjustments in PCars. In Forza it barely makes any difference at all if any in the feel of the wheel but in PCars there is no doubt. If you get the caster to high the car will feel like the power steering belt broke and if you set it to low it will be very light. The ratio being adjustable means you can make the car where you have to turn the wheel a lot or a little and is part of the tuning for each car so nothing to compare it with in Forza where the only way to alter the ratio is with you wheel directly and many of the cars in Forza have a ratio that is unrealistic to the real world. Old cars had to be turned a lot, race cars do not but in Forza most of the cars require the same amount where a few of the race cars which should require less actually require more. For a controller user it probably works fine but for a wheel user it is rather odd to get used to.

 

[CSLACR]

Not in PCars 1 or 2. You can tune the steering on the car, you can alter the weight of the wheel and the steering ratio for each car.

You'd be surprised how much you can alter the weight of the steering with caster adjustments in PCars. In Forza it barely makes any difference at all if any in the feel of the wheel but in PCars there is no doubt. If you get the caster to high the car will feel like the power steering belt broke and if you set it to low it will be very light. The ratio being adjustable means you can make the car where you have to turn the wheel a lot or a little and is part of the tuning for each car so nothing to compare it with in Forza where the only way to alter the ratio is with you wheel directly and many of the cars in Forza have a ratio that is unrealistic to the real world. Old cars had to be turned a lot, race cars do not but in Forza most of the cars require the same amount where a few of the race cars which should require less actually require more. For a controller user it probably works fine but for a wheel user it is rather odd to get used to.

Well, as always with Pcars, there's an asterisk.
*Needing to change the steering settings from car to car, in a way quite literally means they aren't programmed correctly, doesn't it?

As for caster, I'm testing it still in FM7. It definitely affects the car, but to be boldly honest I've no idea how caster adjustments should affect the wheel feeling. I know how they affect handling, I know how they "might" affect feel, but I've never owned a car with adjustable caster, I've read most cars come with a pretty optimal angle that keeps the tires straight no matter what. (Even my 2004 base model sub-10k-brand-new Cavalier came set that way)

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Well, as always with Pcars, there's an asterisk.
*Needing to change the steering settings from car to car, in a way quite literally means they aren't programmed correctly, doesn't it?

I didn't say that you needed to, I said you can. In order to get them to feel like Forza you would would have to as many of them are not correct in Forza because to the best of my knowledge Forza has no method to dynamically set the rotation of the wheel.

As for caster, I'm testing it still in FM7. It definitely affects the car, but to be boldly honest I've no idea how caster adjustments should affect the wheel feeling. I know how they affect handling, I know how they "might" affect feel, but I've never owned a car with adjustable caster, I've read most cars come with a pretty optimal angle that keeps the tires straight no matter what. (Even my 2004 base model sub-10k-brand-new Cavalier came set that way)

More caster makes the wheel harder to turn less makes it easier it has to do with leverage that it gives at the various angles. Apparently it wasn't implemented in Forza. I also do not remember it making much difference in GT5/6 either but the difference is very noticeable in PCars.[/quote]

 

[CopperySinger]

Background:
I have been a longtime racing fan. I purchased my 8 yr old son a used ps2 were we played GT3 spec. I had known gt from the early days and just knew it was a good racing game for him to learn sim racing. later that year I got an xbox with Forza Motorsport 1 and was blown away by the graphics and beauty of that game. these games were not intended for 8 yr olds because they had advanced tuning features and upgrades that a child would not fully understand. Back then before becoming a member I used to lurk this GTplanet web site searching and educating myself about race car tuning; sometimes following Praiano's tuning so that I can use that knowledge to tune in GT and Forza.


FM7 is done, it signifies the end of Forza Motorsport series. This game was made to satisfy only Dan's 8 year old son and it shows. I remember the days when it was exclusive to xbox and were you would felt separated from pc hackers\cheaters and rewarded for winning races with your own tuning setups. Even paid reviews couldn't stop this train wreck.
GTS was regarded as a flop with limited content before the game even came out but still managed to triumph over the competition easily in sales and popularity. The more updates and free content PD brings the more haters begin to burst and melt.
PCARS 2 was the most hated game for the amount of bugs and relations with the community, BUT, looking past the bugs and distaste for the harsh relations, the game is actually a decent racing sim that is really not part of this semi sim competition.


I think semi sims were games were you would have fun learning and GTsport remembers some of that and I'm thankful
Also IMO Forza motorsport is supposed to be about teaching your child the art of racing while not catering the entire game to a child's interest thats what Forza horizon is for, again all in my opinion. And after you have been inspired and learned many things from those semi sims you may feel confident to take games like PCARS2 for a ride.

 

[ImaRobot]

Welcome back. Good to know that it seems that you've decided to not take any facts on board from all the wrong information you've been putting forth in the past.

FM7 is done, it signifies the end of Forza Motorsport series. This game was made to satisfy only Dan's 8 year old son and it shows.

No it's not. Fm8 is on the way, and the changes they're currently making lays out a good foundation for the future. Not only that, but that literally makes no sense. I get the criticism, and there are valid points, but this.. this is just out there.

I remember the days when it was exclusive to xbox and were you would felt separated from pc hackers\cheaters and rewarded for winning races with your own tuning setups.

Sure, it's not a console exclusive anymore, however, you're still trying to push that ridiculous assumption that there's cheaters? Again, I want to ask you to provide proof of this, because youve been saying it for the better half of what, 6-8 months? So I'm sure you've finally accumulated that information to provide for us, right?

Also, rewarded for using your own tuning set ups? What do you mean?

Even paid reviews couldn't stop this train wreck.

What paid reviews? Can I see the source you gathered this from please.

GTS was regarded as a flop with limited content before the game even came out but still managed to triumph over the competition easily in sales and popularity

It really doesn't seem any more popular than the other titles to be honest. Forza, Horizon specifically, seems to be stealing that attention for the most part. Not to say that GT isn't a good game however, but sales alone doesn't dictate that.

The more updates and free content PD brings the more haters begin to burst and melt.

Who? Because I've seen literally no one complain about a completely different game giving away free content. I mean, why would they, when both games seem to be giving away free content?

PCARS 2 was the most hated game for the amount of bugs and relations with the community, BUT, looking past the bugs and distaste for the harsh relations, the game is actually a decent racing sim that is really not part of this semi sim competition.

Eh, I don't think semi-sim fits that at all. That flows more along the line of GTS and Forza Motorsport. I dont own the game so I can't comment on the amount of issues it has. To bad you can't seem to follow suit.

Also IMO Forza motorsport is supposed to be about teaching your child the art of racing while not catering the entire game to a child's interest thats what Forza horizon is for, again all in my opinion.

I've never seen the game being advertised as a vessel to teach your children. I've seen it stated multiple times that Its to turn gamers in to car lovers, and car lovers into gamers, however.

 

[McLaren]

The more updates and free content T10 brings the more haters begin to burst and melt.

Switch PD w/ T10 and this is you to a T.

I'm tagging the usual gang just for laughs since you've decided to re-open this can of worms.
@PzR Slim, @SlipZtrEm, and your good friend, @Scaff

 

[th3o]

Eh, I don't think semi-sim fits that at all. That flows more along the line of GTS and Forza Motorsport. I dont own the game so I can't comment on the amount of issues it has.

I own PCars 2 and can tell you that it has a more sophisticated physics model than GTS and Forza Motorsport. It sure is not Assetto Corsa, iRacing or rFactor 2, but it is more of a simulation than Forza 7 or GTS, that is for sure. And there are also quite a few reviews from hardcore sim gamers (who btw criticized PCars 1) who say that PCars 2 actually is (surprisingly) quite the sim. Plus it has what no other racing game has: Day/Night cycle, live track system with drying out of the racing line (it's superb!) and actual visible seasons (FH4 will get that too, agree).