FM7 vs. PCars 2 vs. GT:Sport

[ImaRobot]

IMO two of the places where Forza drops the ball is the liftoff oversteer which is present on almost every car in game even on front engine rear wheel drive cars and for some strange reason when the rear tires loose grip from sliding the front tires seem to loose a lot as well which really makes no sense.

I haven't driven GTS so I can't say how they have handled the grip but I've always felt that Forza titles had exaggerated oversteer I've just learned to deal with it and have fun anyway

I do think that FM7 drives better than FM6

That's basically why an adjustable differential is a must for me on every car I tune.

Lol what ever move along. I like gt way more. Period

That's fine. Just don't come into these threads to throw something out without even knowing how to explain yourself. Thats just odd, to say the least

 

[ImaRobot]

Dp

 

[McLaren]

But I did explain why. Read again, I said GT feels more like my real life car. But I agree I'm no expert on this and neither is anyone else in this thread.

Subtle way of saying, “This is what I think and no one here is qualified to challenge it”.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

That's basically why an adjustable differential is a must for me on every car I tune.

Yep, gotta have one of those installed, a little tweaking and good to go.

 

[CSLACR]

Hi guys. Well since we are allowed to compare these three games in this thread,, I'll go ahead and give my impressions on what I think so far....

I have NOT played more than only a few minutes of PCars 2 so far so I'll keep it out of this comparison. Anyway after playing both GT Sport and finally Forza 7(PC version mind you), I'm sorry guys but GT Sport absolutely OBLITERATES Forza 7....and it's not even close!!!

I mean, before playing both games I was certain I'd like Forza 7 better and almost didn't even buy a PS4 for GT Sport. But because it took so long for my PC parts to come in, I bought a PS4 and GT Sport to tide me over while I wait. I had a month long head start with GT Sport and I'll admit it may have made me slightly biased towards it, but after having finally played Forza 7 for the first time a few days ago, I honestly don't see how anyone can compare both games. GTS blows it out of the water both graphically and on the physics/handling oversteerI'm using my Bodnar Direct Drive wheel with both games and cannot believe how much understeer the cars in Forza 7 have. Not to mention the weird braking behavior and how the cars sometimes break traction for no apparent reason, plus this weird thing with lift-off oversteer causing the cars to start drifting! I don't know what the heck is going on with this game. The cars simply handle in a bizzarre manner. It's not arcade and it's not sim, and it's not anything in-between, it's just.....strange.

The handling in GT Sport on the other hand feels sublime in comparison. Cars turn on a dime and respond to your wheel inputs perfectly. You feel everything the car is doing through the wheel and even catching slides is an effortless affair. Yes there can be a tad bit of understeer here and there on some cars, but it's nowhere NEAR as prevalent as in Forza 7.

As far the offline career goes, yeah I'll go ahead and give Forza the nod in this category. Very robust campaign and I really enjoy the whole car collect-a-thon aspect of it. Very RPG-ish and right up my alley. Haven't tried the online yet. As for the graphics, again....Forza loses big time to GTS. I honestly can't see how anyone can praise the looks of Forza. Maybe on a 4K HDR display it improves significantly, but on my lowly BenQ 1080P front projector, Forza pales in comparison to GTS. Hell I'd go as far as to say even some of Codemasters' older games like GRID 2, Dirt 3 and F1 2015 when set on max settings look better than Forza 7. The praise this game has gotten for its graphics just baffles me to no end, and I'm running it on an 8600K@5.3Ghz/1080Ti/32GB DDR4 rig with everything maxed to out. My PS4 pro is only 1/4th as powerful as my PC and PD has managed to build a game and squeeze out graphics that tear Forza 7 a new one! Unbelievable.

Anyway I just wanted to get this of my chest. I will continue playing GT Sport and I'd consider it my surprise hit of the year. The car handling, the excellent online match making and the beautiful graphics makes it a game I'll respect and love for a long time to come. Forza 7 on the other hand has disappointed me greatly. I honestly don't see myself coming to grips with the god awful car handling in that game. I don't even want to get started on the hoops I have to jump through just to get FFB out of the game to my wheel.....Forza 7 EmuWheel app *ON TOP* of GIMX! Absolutely ridiculous and even then the FFB STILL glitches out and stops working randomly at times. Ugh....what a shame.

You wouldn't, by chance, happen to be able to make a video of all this "understeer" that's in FM7, would you?

I only ask because that's the exact opposite of what FM has too much of, which is oversteer.

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

You wouldn't, by chance, happen to be able to make a video of all this "understeer" that's in FM7, would you?

I only ask because that's the exact opposite of what FM has too much of, which is oversteer.

I'm guessing his comments on the physics are based on the opening race in the Porsche, which is a pig of a car in Forza. The physics in Forza are far from perfect but compared to the basic tyre model GT uses i know which one i prefer.

As for the graphics, I've no idea as Forza looks great in 4k, GT still has the better lighting and the night races are amazing compared to Forza but obliterates? Nah

Each to their own though

 

[Ialyrn]

I'm guessing his comments on the physics are based on the opening race in the Porsche, which is a pig of a car in Forza. The physics in Forza are far from perfect but compared to the basic tyre model GT uses i know which one i prefer.

Aye, the Porsche really needs to be driven with a good head on your shoulders; as you need to watch out for lift off oversteer and on throttle pushing towards understeer. The thing grips so well on throttle, that if you just max it your going to be heading in a much straighter line; so the throttle really needs to be feathered and applied slowly compared to some other cars. It can be exceptionally difficult for someone newer to Forza to get to grips with, and it really wasnt the best choice T10 made for an opening car to drive. It does handle very well if you pay attention to your throttle on the corners though, and I really enjoy driving it. Its quite rewarding.



I have a lap recorded of it (and other Porsche's), as people kept saying the fronts keep flying into the air. I was curious, as no one was posting any footage of it happening; so I tested the cars myself. All of them are bone stock, no homolagation or tunes; just how they are by default in the game.

 

[F Inferno]

Aye, the Porsche really needs to be driven with a good head on your shoulders; as you need to watch out for lift off oversteer and on throttle pushing towards understeer. The thing grips so well on throttle, that if you just max it your going to be heading in a much straighter line; so the throttle really needs to be feathered and applied slowly compared to some other cars. It can be exceptionally difficult for someone newer to Forza to get to grips with, and it really wasnt the best choice T10 made for an opening car to drive. It does handle very well if you pay attention to your throttle on the corners though, and I really enjoy driving it. Its quite rewarding.



I have a lap recorded of it (and other Porsche's), as people kept saying the fronts keep flying into the air. I was curious, as no one was posting any footage of it happening; so I tested the cars myself. All of them are bone stock, no homolagation or tunes; just how they are by default in the game.

Homologation completely screws some cars though, that Polaris race in the first championship where it just wheelies constantly at higher speeds is so stupid, like how is that not play tested!

 

[UnshavenYapper]

Homologation completely screws some cars

I feel like alot of people have misuderstood the homologation thing. there are 3 rules you have to follow to have a homologated car, Tyre compound, Tyre widht and ma HP. other then that you can do what ever, and its still homologated.

 

[RikkiGT-R]

I feel like alot of people have misuderstood the homologation thing. there are 3 rules you have to follow to have a homologated car, Tyre compound, Tyre widht and ma HP. other then that you can do what ever, and its still homologated.

I can kinda understand where @F Inferno is coming from -

The problem I find is that any addition (aside from LSD and on occasion, the aero) adds to overall performance index, and with some cars starting at said index you can't really add anything to them. So you could have a good car sitting at the limit of PI in stock form, but it's enormously heavy.. yet you can't reduce weight a little or add race brakes to help with slowing it down. These are the kinda cars I totally avoid.

I also wonder why there are so many parts available for loads of cars that cannot be altered in any way, as you immediately surpass the PI limit. You can add whatever you want to them of course, but they cannot enter into any event once you do...

 

[UnshavenYapper]

Your right about there are some cars you cant really do much too. but that is quite a low number.

Next time you have this issue you should try and reset the car to stock, add whatever tyrecompound the homologation dictates. And usally you get enough PI to play with.

Thats a thing i like, you cant just go and slam every nice part in your build, you gotta play around alittle and figure out what works for whatever car your fiddling with

 

[RikkiGT-R]

@UnshavenYapper - oh yeah of course mate, but my point being; some cars are at the limit in pure stock form, you can’t remove anything to earn some points to play around with.

But granted they are thankfully fairly rare, and not usually cars I like to drive anyway. I just noticed it a few times in single player when I had to use a specific car but couldn’t do anything with it (not being able to add a brake kit I can customise REALLY annoys me )

 

[F Inferno]

I feel like alot of people have misuderstood the homologation thing. there are 3 rules you have to follow to have a homologated car, Tyre compound, Tyre widht and ma HP. other then that you can do what ever, and its still homologated.

I just mean when you buy the car stock with the auto-homologation being screwed, not necessarily the system itself, I've not dig deep enough into it to make judgement but it can't be worse than the old system IMO.

 

[ImaRobot]

Delete

 

[CSLACR]

I just mean when you buy the car stock with the auto-homologation being screwed, not necessarily the system itself, I've not dig deep enough into it to make judgement but it can't be worse than the old system IMO.

The way it currently is, most cars in most divisions can be reasonably competitive.
That doesn't mean one car won't dominate a leaderboard, but typically the same car can't dominate both fast and slow tracks, so it's pretty good for racing series, if there's ever a way to make one. (in multiplayer)

 

[Imari]

But I agree I'm no expert on this and neither is anyone else in this thread.

You might want to be careful what qualifications and knowledge you assign to people you've never met and know nothing about.

 

[F Inferno]

The way it currently is, most cars in most divisions can be reasonably competitive.
That doesn't mean one car won't dominate a leaderboard, but typically the same car can't dominate both fast and slow tracks, so it's pretty good for racing series, if there's ever a way to make one. (in multiplayer)

Just been setting up my Accuforce on it, started up the race, oh **** FFB is inverted at full force with my F1 rim on it!!

 

[th3o]

I have not played PCars2 so i will leave it out of the comparison.

I play GT Sport on the Pro and Forza 7 on a 4k PC, run both games on an LG 55" B7 OLED, both games of course with HDR, so i think i get the best possible image from both games.
That being said: GT Sport ist to me a clear winner except resolution and the amount of cars and tracks. It is overall the better racing game (be it sim or simcade, i dont care, i only rate fun, immersion and optics.

What does GT Sport better than Forza? The following:

- GTSport plays with a controller way better, you understand what the car is doing whereas in Forza cars snap on you out of nowhere (lift-off oversteer syndrome) and i can feel the cars weight and tyres working better in GTSport.
- It has a superior lighting model and HDR
- It has better car models and cockpit materials.
- It has overall to me better sounds when not counting only the engine but the ambience sounds too
- It may not have the semi-dynamic weather of FM7 but the 5-6 different times of day to choose from for every(!) track (i look at you FM7) offers me more of a sense of different weather/time than what FM7 offers overall. GT Sport can also be really bright or really dim/atmospheric, whereas FM7 often appears even in sunny conditions dimmed down.
- It has dynamic shadows even though they look a bit worse than on Forza, but give the whole image a more realistic look
- The cars have Ambient Occlusion, they have self-shadowing which makes the models look more lifelike
- Cars move better on the track because they have proper suspension and bodyroll. I mean optics wise, not physics wise. In Forza cars look very stiff
- Replays are out of this world in GTSport. Forza 7 in comparison has very bad cam angles, bad cuts, annoying action cams and the cars move at times really odd
- Menu design and soundtrack are pure joy in GT Sport whereas Forzas menus lag and that annoying rock soundtrack with 3 songs gets on your nerves pretty fast
- Obviously the multiplayer in GT Sport is sublime in comparison to Forza 7. For a casual competitive racing game its very clean racing overall. Have driven due to current lack of tracks in GT Sport the same tracks countless times now but in multiplayer they never get old when you have nice races. Every race feels like a fresh experience, whereas in Forza you sort of need that many tracks in order to not get bored because all you do is racing the crash-kiddies-imitating AI (i.e. Drivatars)

Polyphony Digital simply has the better designers and artists at work. It shows in the attention to detail in almost every facet of the game whereas Forza tries to be the loud rough and noisy guy.
To me GT Sport celebrates the art of the car, a purists passion can be seen in the game even it it lacks the content.

Oh, and i get why Forza 7 got racing-GOTY. Its more mass appealing with those 700 cars and 32 tracks, it looks just more accessible, easy to pick up. GT (Sport) just is not that (anymore) but for a car lover it offers more as a package.

And by no means i am saying that Forza 7 is a bad game. And all aspects i listed in favor of GTS are not "bad" in Forza 7. They are just not as good.

 

[ImaRobot]

- GTSport plays with a controller way better, you understand what the car is doing whereas in Forza cars snap on you out of nowhere (lift-off oversteer syndrome) and i can feel the cars weight and tyres working better in GTSport.

All of which I feel with Forza, minus the snap oversteer. I don't feel that at all as long as you drive the car how you should depending on the drive-type. Also, don't use Simulation Steering, it is anything but. I really don't think this is an area that either trumps each other, but concerning the actual individual pads for each game, Forza feels great with those extra rumble triggers, letting you know exactly when you use too much gas or too much brakes.

- It has a superior lighting model and HDR

It definitely has a superior lighting model, most likely the best in the Genre.

- It has better car models and cockpit materials.

This is also an area they've always excelled at, but that gap is getting smaller and smaller as the years pass. One thing to note though is the significant difference in LOD's when in game on GTS, some car wheels stick out like a sore thumb, as well as certain body panels. This is a problem that both games suffer from, however.

- It may not have the semi-dynamic weather of FM7 but the 5-6 different times of day to choose from for every(!) track (i look at you FM7) offers me more of a sense of different weather/time than what FM7 offers overall. GT Sport can also be really bright or really dim/atmospheric, whereas FM7 often appears even in sunny conditions dimmed down.

I think this is an area that neither really trump each other. Forza has the dynamic weather and time on specific tracks, while the others get alternate time of days. The real issue with Forza is that the time of days aren't able to be selected on the other tracks, which always left me scratching my head. This iteration, I can't seem to find a true, pure, night setting. Forza 6 definitely had some pitch black nights on the Nurburgring. I'm either getting extremely unlucky with the randomly generated Time of Day, or its just not there anymore.

- It has dynamic shadows even though they look a bit worse than on Forza, but give the whole image a more realistic look

As does Forza. Although, some tracks seem to have backed on shadows with trees.

- The cars have Ambient Occlusion, they have self-shadowing which makes the models look more lifelike

Something which occurs in Forza as well.

- Cars move better on the track because they have proper suspension and bodyroll. I mean optics wise, not physics wise. In Forza cars look very stiff

Not necessarily true, to an extent. Forza has had body roll since last generation, it's not a missing feature, although some vehicles can appear a bit stiff. On the opposite spectrum, cars in GT seemed to look over-exaggerated at times. I would definitely give the nod to GTS in this aspect though, but likely not by much to be honest.

- Replays are out of this world in GTSport. Forza 7 in comparison has very bad cam angles, bad cuts, annoying action cams and the cars move at times really odd

That is something that truely is great in GTS, in my opinion. Those replays are like watching actual races. The replays in Forza leave a lot to be desired. Cars move odd in replays on Forza because they are brought down to 30fps, that's why they tend to look jumpy.

- Menu design and soundtrack are pure joy in GT Sport whereas Forzas menus lag and that annoying rock soundtrack with 3 songs gets on your nerves pretty fast

I tend to turn music off in any racing game I play, so I can't really comment on such. I do like the Menus in GT, but I just hate the navigation arrow and how it works.

Oh, and i get why Forza 7 got racing-GOTY. Its more mass appealing with those 700 cars and 32 tracks, it looks just more accessible, easy to pick up. GT (Sport) just is not that (anymore) but for a car lover it offers more as a package.

Ease of access is still definitely there with GTS, it's not going to be like jumping into a game like Pcars or Assetto for the first time. It's just a streamlined game this time around. Once more content starts flowing in, I'm sure it'll garner a lot of attention from those that thought it was initially lacking. It just doesn't cover that "game" aspect as well as Forza, with its high focus on eSports and online gaming.

- Obviously the multiplayer in GT Sport is sublime in comparison to Forza 7. For a casual competitive racing game its very clean racing overall. Have driven due to current lack of tracks in GT Sport the same tracks countless times now but in multiplayer they never get old when you have nice races. Every race feels like a fresh experience, whereas in Forza you sort of need that many tracks in order to not get bored because all you do is racing the crash-kiddies-imitating AI (i.e. Drivatars)

The multiplayer definitely goes to GTS, you're right. I've yet to find any sort of consistently competitive AI in any game besides Pcars1 as it sits, I don't really think either of them deserves that titles lol.

 

[F Inferno]

Pretty sure Forza 7 has no dynamic environment shadows at all just as an FYI, it's the only way the original XB1 is able to have different lightning through baked presets. GT5, 6 & Sport all have actual dynamic lightning though Sport is fixed TOD for a better framerate as people complained.

True dynamic weather and lightning is just very resource intensive just look at Project Cars on PC where you can see the metrics and go from 120fps down to 40fps just with a change of weather.

Once consoles are powerful enough for true global illumination though it shouldn't be any issue anymore.

 

[ImaRobot]

Pretty sure Forza 7 has no dynamic environment shadows at all just as an FYI, it's the only way the original XB1 is able to have different lightning through baked presets. GT5, 6 & Sport all have actual dynamic lightning though Sport is fixed TOD for a better framerate as people complained.

Don't recall saying that it had dynamic environment shadows. With no true dynamic TOD, I doubt it would. However, I do know that shadows produced by vehicles moving past/through lightsources do appear to be dynamic.

True dynamic weather and lightning is just very resource intensive just look at Project Cars on PC where you can see the metrics and go from 120fps down to 40fps just with a change of weather.

I'm wondering how true this is. Forza's seems to have a range of selections to choose from with it's weather presets, much like Pcars1 did, although a bit limited with how its implemented. Although, I think in Pcars1, you were able to select the temperature too?

Once consoles are powerful enough for true global illumination though it shouldn't be any issue anymore.

It's likely doable, just not at the graphical standards that would require it to be so. Graphics seems to be higher on the priority list.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

True dynamic weather and lightning is just very resource intensive just look at Project Cars on PC where you can see the metrics and go from 120fps down to 40fps just with a change of weather.

Can't say that I have ever saw PCars1 go from 120 to 40fps. The only time I have saw the frame rate drop near 40 is with a full field of 56 race cars close together in the rain on Lemans coming through the corner at the end of the long straight and only then did it briefly stutter then right back up to 60+fps. I also can't say that I ever saw 120 fps while racing, I remember seeing 80-90 at times and of course 300 or more in the menus but then I used VSync to hold mine at 60fps and reduce the load.

GT5 did a pretty good job with dynamic lighting and weather as well.

Forza has no real dynamic lighting, some tracks have a random this or that time of day and some allow for some preset weather conditions. Big improvement over the way they did the rain in FM6 but honestly I would rather just have a fixed time of day at around Noon to 1:00 so the sun is high overhead and not in your eyse nor casting shadows on the track. If they want to do morning and evening then they really should give us an adjustable and changing time of day.

 

[F Inferno]

Don't recall saying that it had dynamic environment shadows. With no true dynamic TOD, I doubt it would. However, I do know that shadows produced by vehicles moving past/through lightsources do appear to be dynamic.


I'm wondering how true this is. Forza's seems to have a range of selections to choose from with it's weather presets, much like Pcars1 did, although a bit limited with how its implemented. Although, I think in Pcars1, you were able to select the temperature too?


It's likely doable, just not at the graphical standards that would require it to be so. Graphics seems to be higher on the priority list.

You said in response Forza had dynamic shadows but that's not true for the environments where they are baked in and those a far more resource intensive, the cars are moving so obviously have to have them. Notice in Forza anytime tracks with 'dynamic' lighting start in conditions with no shadows at all to hide the fact it's all baked.

PCars is actually dynamic and like you say temperature also plays a part, if it rains or there is fog the temp will drop and have less grip. No point even simulating that kind of thing in Forza when most people do 5min races.

PCars looks great to me but yes they are far more interested in pretty graphics and their 2 year dev cycle really doesn't help things when it comes to new features or a better suited engine.

That's why I say when we get proper GI they have no excuses because it's already fully dynamic all the time and outside of alpha particles wet weather performance should be similar to dry as reflections are also part of the pipeline rather than another graphical effect that needs to be added.

Can't say that I have ever saw PCars1 go from 120 to 40fps. The only time I have saw the frame rate drop near 40 is with a full field of 56 race cars close together in the rain on Lemans coming through the corner at the end of the long straight and only then did it briefly stutter then right back up to 60+fps. I also can't say that I ever saw 120 fps while racing, I remember seeing 80-90 at times and of course 300 or more in the menus but then I used VSync to hold mine at 60fps and reduce the load.

GT5 did a pretty good job with dynamic lighting and weather as well.

Forza has no real dynamic lighting, some tracks have a random this or that time of day and some allow for some preset weather conditions. Big improvement over the way they did the rain in FM6 but honestly I would rather just have a fixed time of day at around Noon to 1:00 so the sun is high overhead and not in your eyse nor casting shadows on the track. If they want to do morning and evening then they really should give us an adjustable and changing time of day.

Well that depends on graphics settings and GPU, not many people could use ultra reflections on launch with good performance outside of 780Ti/Titan SLI owners.

Personally I prefer the new Forza approach, one fixed TOD just gets boring to me. Being blinded by fog or sunlight which wasn't there the previous lap is great and makes the track different each time.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

Personally I prefer the new Forza approach, one fixed TOD just gets boring to me. Being blinded by fog or sunlight which wasn't there the previous lap is great and makes the track different each time.

It is cool for career mode but overall it is lame. I personally like to hot lap and it is pretty sad that sometimes the game will throw you on the track in a sun down situation where there are heavy shadows on the track making it hard to see, no ability to even turn on the lights on the car to help with the poor visibility and then the sun hits you in the eyes as you enter one section of the track, no options there, it just does it at random. The rain and fog stuff at least has some options but there whole thing with hot lapping and posting LB times is that it should be equal ground. One guy will be driving in the rain and another under cloudy conditions and both times get posted to the same LB where clearly the one in the rain has no chance, likewise if the game gives you midday you get the same LB as evening but it is much easier to post a good lap at midday due to much better visibility of the track so again for career mode the change up in fine, nice even. It is also good to have the option to set some track conditions during freeplay but as far as LB postings are concerned every one should be under the same conditions and those conditions should be the ideal conditions. dry, midday, no fog.

Forza has been playing with lighting starting with FM3 where they introduced cases where the sub was low in the sky and would blind you coming out of a given corner or other location. Sedona was horrible, Laguna Seca was also an issue and even Nurburgring had one spot on it where the lighting was an issue. No one would choose to hot lap at a time of day when the sun is going to hit them in the eyes nor would they when it is getting dark or raining but it seems that the folks at T10 do not understand this and are in capable of giving us a reasonable fixed TOD or an adjustable time of day and/or variable lighting even though GT did it well 7 years ago.

 

[Ialyrn]

GT5 may have had TOD and weather, but it was never a great implementation of it; and the game struggled to hit a stable frame rate, even in dry conditions in the daylight; sometimes going into the low 20's. I think when it comes to GT 5 and Forza 4, people wear rose tinted glasses. Because although the games where great for their time, they are not as good as nostalgia makes them out to be.

 

[F Inferno]

It is cool for career mode but overall it is lame. I personally like to hot lap and it is pretty sad that sometimes the game will throw you on the track in a sun down situation where there are heavy shadows on the track making it hard to see, no ability to even turn on the lights on the car to help with the poor visibility and then the sun hits you in the eyes as you enter one section of the track, no options there, it just does it at random. The rain and fog stuff at least has some options but there whole thing with hot lapping and posting LB times is that it should be equal ground. One guy will be driving in the rain and another under cloudy conditions and both times get posted to the same LB where clearly the one in the rain has no chance, likewise if the game gives you midday you get the same LB as evening but it is much easier to post a good lap at midday due to much better visibility of the track so again for career mode the change up in fine, nice even. It is also good to have the option to set some track conditions during freeplay but as far as LB postings are concerned every one should be under the same conditions and those conditions should be the ideal conditions. dry, midday, no fog.

Forza has been playing with lighting starting with FM3 where they introduced cases where the sub was low in the sky and would blind you coming out of a given corner or other location. Sedona was horrible, Laguna Seca was also an issue and even Nurburgring had one spot on it where the lighting was an issue. No one would choose to hot lap at a time of day when the sun is going to hit them in the eyes nor would they when it is getting dark or raining but it seems that the folks at T10 do not understand this and are in capable of giving us a reasonable fixed TOD or an adjustable time of day and/or variable lighting even though GT did it well 7 years ago.

You make a good point, I've not actually done any hotlapping in Forza 7 but that is pretty stupid, I assumed it was fixed conditions. It is in rivals events though right which I'm guessing is their main focus these days?

It actually started in a Forza 2, in the ultimate edition they had a booklet where the lead artist was talking about how they talked to Pixar animators and too inspiration from the Cars film and the waterfall scene in terms of it being about creating dramatic lighting to make people feel certain emotions. I read it and was just like dude it's a video game not a film!!

It just pissed me off being blinded every lap on the same corner or straight, it's ok the first few times and for screenshots but after that it has no impact at all beyond annoyance.

GT5 may have had TOD and weather, but it was never a great implementation of it; and the game struggled to hit a stable frame rate, even in dry conditions in the daylight; sometimes going into the low 20's. I think when it comes to GT 5 and Forza 4, people wear rose tinted glasses. Because although the games where great for their time, they are not as good as nostalgia makes them out to be.

For it's time GT5 was amazing, the SP grind to get to level 20 before you could do the last few events was extremely stupid though but I'd take GT5's approach over Forza 4 all day long. Sure it had framerate drops but it had dynamic lightning and weather and they actually had the ambition to try.

Forza 4 was so boring, I really don't understand why it's career got praise especially when most of its SP content was the god awful event list with mostly repeats of the exact same events in slightly different cars. 100% that sucker was not fun!

 

[ImaRobot]

You said in response Forza had dynamic shadows but that's not true for the environments where they are baked in and those a far more resource intensive

there was never mention of any environmental objects casting shadows outside of specifically mentioning that trees are baked shadows. I then went on to clarify the point in a later post. However if that's the case, than it's impossible for GTS to have dynamic shadows in the environment as well, since there's no true TOD either? Unless headlights spread though trackside trees, and cast shadows with each headlight shining through it?

 

[BoneSawTX]

Forza 4 put the bullet in, nailed the coffin shut and made sure GT was buried nice and deep for me. Everything about that game was better than GT5, I was so tired of PD’s crap i was done with console racing and just happened to come across a sell on 360’s with Forza.

GT5 TOD was nothing special, I saw similar and more enjoyable effects in Le Mans 24 Hours on the Dreamcast. You can’t say FM4 was just the same events over and over with a straight face and say GT5 wasn’t or any GT. The game would literally put me to sleep midrace. I’ve yet to fall asleep midrace playing a Forza title.

 

[F Inferno]

there was never mention of any environmental objects casting shadows outside of specifically mentioning that trees are baked shadows. I then went on to clarify the point in a later post. However if that's the case, than it's impossible for GTS to have dynamic shadows in the environment as well, since there's no true TOD either? Unless headlights spread though trackside trees, and cast shadows with each headlight shining through it?

I'll explain it better since I'm being confusing by mixing terminology. GTS isn't dynamic but has the capability to do so easily because the lighting is calculated realtime if that makes sense. So all the shadows are calculated based on where the sun is whenever you load in with whatever TOD, in Forza they aren't and are just baked in because they use a far less resource intensive lighting solution.

Forza 4 put the bullet in, nailed the coffin shut and made sure GT was buried nice and deep for me. Everything about that game was better than GT5, I was so tired of PD’s crap i was done with console racing and just happened to come across a sell on 360’s with Forza.

GT5 TOD was nothing special, I saw similar and more enjoyable effects in Le Mans 24 Hours on the Dreamcast. You can’t say FM4 was just the same events over and over with a straight face and say GT5 wasn’t or any GT. The game would literally put me to sleep midrace. I’ve yet to fall asleep midrace playing a Forza title.

Please, the event list is the worst creation ever like it couldn't be any more boring and you'd race on the exact same layouts and series of cars over and over, it didn't even try and make them interesting!

Just look at it, literally couldn't be more uninspired. Now if you only played career and online then you could argue Forza 4 was better but for 100% completion took me two years to build up the will power to complete it and that was only because I had decided to sell off my Xbox 360 and go PC.

Honestly Forza 4, Halo 5 and Uncharted 3 were the games which made me give up on consoles and AAA games because the sequels are all too similar and take no risks. Maybe I enjoyed GT5 more because Forza 4 was just a slightly upgraded Forza 3 with too much crap filler slapped on to pad game length.

 

[ImaRobot]

I'll explain it better since I'm being confusing by mixing terminology. GTS isn't dynamic but has the capability to do so easily because the lighting is calculated realtime if that makes sense. So all the shadows are calculated based on where the sun is whenever you load in with whatever TOD, in Forza they aren't and are just baked in because they use a far less resource intensive lighting solution.

I really don't even think the lighting is calculated in real time. It makes more sense, and is less resource-consuming to just used baked in scenarios the whole time, just adjusting them for the different times of day. Unless a lightsource runs through them, and projects shadows from things like vehicles headlights, I doubt it's calculated in real time(something which I think Forza does as well, but can't recall, I'd have to look it up.) They can still use the suns position as it doesn't move, and just bake them in just like Forza. If anything, its just showing that they take more time with their configurations of TOD than Forza does.

Please, the event list is the worst creation ever like it couldn't be any more boring and you'd race on the exact same layouts and series of cars over and over, it didn't even try and make them interesting!

Um, neither did the games he mentioned I don't see whats really different between the two. They both have specific requirements for the race you're going into. GT just was extremely lacking in comparison.

Just look at it, literally couldn't be more uninspired. Now if you only played career and online then you could argue Forza 4 was better but for 100% completion took me two years to build up the will power to complete it and that was only because I had decided to sell off my Xbox 360 and go PC.

To be honest, to this day, I still much prefer that system. GT5 was literally no better, and was extremely lacking in that regard, The only difference being is that they had a picture associated to the cup you're about to enter, where as you'd have to hover over each box on Forza to see it.

Honestly Forza 4, Halo 5 and Uncharted 3 were the games which made me give up on consoles and AAA games because the sequels are all too similar and take no risks. Maybe I enjoyed GT5 more because Forza 4 was just a slightly upgraded Forza 3 with too much crap filler slapped on to pad game length.

And the risks they took came at the expense of game functionality. Just taking risks isn't enough to make me say "wow they tried, and they failed, but hey, they tried I guess." I'm not sure how that makes it a better scenario. As for filler, I'm not sure what filler there is. These games have cars, they have tracks, and different layouts, theres not much more to add filler into there.