Formula 1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021Formula 1 

  • Thread starter Jimlaad43
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Who will win the Driver's Championship?

  • Total voters
    73
  • Poll closed .
ScottPye20
What would you rather, a dull safety car finish or a crazy green flag finish? I'd take a crazy green flag finish every day of the week. For me, motorsport is entertainment and I want excitement instead of boredom, otherwise I feel like I've wasted my time. Perhaps I'm in the minority but nothing will top this race and this season for entertainment. I will not speak about race direction because that's a completely different issue; no point blaming Verstappen and Red Bull for taking advantage of the situation.

Well done to Verstappen for keeping the faith, even when the cards were down. That's admirable because not many drivers have been able to take the fight to Hamilton. You cannot take that away from him, controversial circumstances or not. In that regard, he deserves it. About time someone else won the championship.
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I would rather have a fair finish, whether it’s under safety car or green flag is irrelevant.

Sure, Verstappen is a worthy winner if you look at the whole season, but so is Hamilton so it doesn’t really work as a justification to why the rules were broken.
 
Nobody could have had any genuine issues if the race finished under SC. There would be no major controversy. Yes RB would have whined, of course, but they know full well without the SC they had lost anyway. Finishing under SC would have led to the same result if the SC never happened, so there is no net loss for them.

Likewise Max fans would have been frustrated but again, the race was practically over. Nobody can really complain that they didn't get luck from a SC.

Yes it's not exciting to end behind SC but this is sport, excitement shouldn't be forced for the sake of it. Sometimes they end with a 5-0 thrashing instead of a tense 0-0 into the final minutes, sometimes they end with someone retiring injured. That's sport. Once again, the race was already destined to end without excitement. HAM was going to cruise home 8+ seconds ahead.

Safety Cars happen, they've always been a random part of F1 and Red Bull ultimately just got lucky, but there is no doubt that Masi ultimately changed procedure for the sake of a show, not for the sake of sporting integrity or fairness. Someone, either himself or a higher up essentially demanded they clear the cars out of the way and we have a one lap showdown for the drama, sod the rules and precedent. And that's just wrong no matter who you support.

As I said yesterday though Max is champion and it shouldn't be taken away, but serious questions need to be asked of FIA and FOM or the sport is going to end up even more of an entertainment product and not a sporting contest.
 
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ScottPye20
So you want to have boring finishes? If there's an opportunity for the race to be restarted, why shouldn't it be?
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Honestly don't consider it that boring as it's usually a possibility and the race leading up to it ends up being impactful. I'm very much a Journey > Destination kind of guy with motorsport especially since Destination could end up making Mario Kart look less random

If F1 wants to have a rule that all races have to end in Green then its fine, but it has to be a rule. Don't flick it like the bunching Hamilton and Verstappen together at the last second because the ending could be perceived as boring.

The why it shouldn't be is literally this race. It's more about the consistency (or lack thereof) than the rule itself
 
German language commentary from Austria, I think. The lead commentator excitedly calls it inconceivable. Co-commentator at the end:

"What a decision. It will be discussed no end!"

 
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FPV MIC
I've always despised wave arounds in all forms of motorsport as I've always thought of it to be unfair to the cars that worked their arses off to put those cars a lap down, but now I hate wave arounds a bit more than I did before.
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Imagine what happens on a single lap restart with a line of blue flagged cars between Verstappen and Lewis though.

That's a major safety issue for sure, and the main point of the unlapping rule.
 
ScottPye20
So you want to have boring finishes? If there's an opportunity for the race to be restarted, why shouldn't it be?
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Because F1 is a multi-billion dollar sport and the rules (and their enforcement) are important for its credibility.

Teams (and their parent companies, sponsors) spend hundreds of millions of dollars per season to compete. They decide to compete, and make all of their decisions, based on hundreds of pages of technical and sporting regulations.

Remember a few weeks ago when Hamilton was disqualified from qualifying when his car had a rear wing that opened 0.2mm too far on one side of the wing? That was the correct decision, because it was a clear breach of the regulations, deliberate or not.

In this case, the race director has deliberately decided to act in clear breach of a very common rule, without precedent, to put the title contenders (and only the title contenders) together for the final lap of the championship. The fact is that this would never have happened if the rules were followed as per their wording and as per precedent. Both of those things are important in laws and regulations, especially when a large amount of money is involved.

If we decide that the rules are unimportant when there is entertainment to be had, then I have no idea where the sport goes from here.

This is not a comment on whether Max or Lewis deserved to win the title as that has nothing to do with it. They both drove brilliantly this season. I just have problems stomaching the way the final on-track act unfolded.
 
kungtotte_
Imagine what happens on a single lap restart with a line of blue flagged cars between Verstappen and Lewis though.

That's a major safety issue for sure, and the main point of the unlapping rule.
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Yet they left the rest of the lapped cars kicking around with the midfield, how can only letting those cars between Max and Lewis through be for safety but not the rest of them that the other runners would have to negotiate?

And this is all ignoring that the rules state the 'unlap' message should go to all lapped cars, not some. And that the race should restart the following lap, to give them time to get out of the way, rather than the same.

The FIA put themselves into disrepute with this one. Honestly I consider 2021 to be the year that doesn't have a WDC.
 
Rangeraus
The fact is that this would never have happened if the rules were followed
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It also never would have happened if the title was decided a month ago and this was a dead rubber race. That's the crux really, they shouldn't be making different decisions based on the championship and because they think it'd make a good show. But that's clearly what they did. They wanted HAM vs VER in a last lap showdown, and did what was required to get it, even if they'd never done it ever before.
 
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Samus
They wanted HAM vs VER in a last lap showdown, and did what was required to get it, even if they'd never done it ever before.
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In which case they should have shown a red flag, all the lapped cars could be moved out of the way and the 40 lap difference in tyre life would be nullified. The drivers would be on level pegging, yeah Hamilton would lose his 10s lead, but would at least get new tyres.

Instead they picked the option that broke their own rules and actively sabotaged one of the drivers.
 
Aloha62_2
In which case they should have shown a red flag, all the lapped cars could be moved out of the way and the 40 lap difference in tyre life would be nullified. The drivers would be on level pegging, yeah Hamilton would lose his 10s lead, but would at least get new tyres.

Instead they picked the option that broke their own rules and actively sabotaged one of the drivers.
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I think they'd have equally been accused of orchestrating something with that though, there was no actual need for a red flag in that scenario. So they probably didn't want to do and thought they could do a regular SC restart but realised they were running out of laps and hence the rushed, non-rule conforming nonsense they ended up doing.

Red flag would certainly have been fairer though, as soon as VER was on HAMs rear wing there was only one outcome and Masi had to know that. Not saying he wanted VER to win, just he surely knew what was coming with his actions.
 
Samus
I think they'd have equally been accused of orchestrating something with that though
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But at least it would have been orchestrated well, rather than the 'let's pretend we aren't' method they actually took, which was shockingly unfair to one of the drivers.

If you're going to break the rules at least do it properly.

And where does it leave us? With a WDC that doesn't sit well, and a court case in the future where it is up to the FIA to decide if the FIA have done anything wrong. It's all just... Bleh.
 
Aloha62_2
Yet they left the rest of the lapped cars kicking around with the midfield, how can only letting those cars between Max and Lewis through be for safety but not the rest of them that the other runners would have to negotiate?

And this is all ignoring that the rules state the 'unlap' message should go to all lapped cars, not some. And that the race should restart the following lap, to give them time to get out of the way, rather than the same.

The FIA put themselves into disrepute with this one. Honestly I consider 2021 to be the year that doesn't have a WDC.
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Oh I'm firmly in the camp of "this was mismanaged". They should let all cars go or let no cars go, depending on the circumstances.

The rules as written have no provision for partial release so it's a big mess.

I was just responding to the point about not liking the whole thing about releasing lapped cars. I can see why it should be done for safety, but if it's done it should naturally be done properly and not like this.
 
Aloha62_2
But at least it would have been orchestrated well, rather than the 'let's pretend we aren't' method they actually took, which was shockingly unfair to one of the drivers.

If you're going to break the rules at least do it properly.

And where does it leave us? With a WDC that doesn't sit well, and a court case in the future where it is up to the FIA to decide if the FIA have done anything wrong. It's all just... Bleh.
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Well, quite.

Changes are the FIA are needed, the inept Masi being canned being one of those things. Problem is of course, who replaces him? Charlie did it for so long and didn't have time to fully train anyone before his sudden passing.

Instead what'll probably happen is the FIA...

tumblr_lsiekdFQoW1qcudlso6_250.gifv

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...and distract us next month with "OOH NEW CARS SHINY SHINY!"
 
kungtotte_
Imagine what happens on a single lap restart with a line of blue flagged cars between Verstappen and Lewis though.

That's a major safety issue for sure, and the main point of the unlapping rule.
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As @Aloha62_2 it was okay for the cars further back, and it's really not much different to Hamilton having to get past the blue flagged cars when he came up behind them... except they would all know to get the **** outta Verstappen's way pronto :sly:
 
Aloha62_2
If I was Hamilton, keeping in mind that I'm a bitter, vindictive, and generally bad person, I would change my car number next year to 8.
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As an aside, I wonder if Verstappen will use car number 1 next year, since the champion is allowed to do so. I'm thinking probably not since car numbers are as much a part of a driver's branding as anything else these days, but at the same time I'm sure RBR would love to rub it in just a little more with that as well.
 
I guess with F1 you have to enjoy the small wheel to wheel moments, the macro is just too corrupted to have much value. I can live with this despite this year being corrupted by bureaucracy, its been fun, its the journey not the destination. The new owners are bringing reform which has been delayed a year so theres hope.
 
If race officials hadn’t thrown out the red flag option before the race, they could have made that decision when the SC was called out and no one would have reasons to complain about the rules.

If Masi wanted to break something he could have broken this decision instead of the rule book.
 
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EngieDiesel
As an aside, I wonder if Verstappen will use car number 1 next year, since the champion is allowed to do so. I'm thinking probably not since car numbers are as much a part of a driver's branding as anything else these days, but at the same time I'm sure RBR would love to rub it in just a little more with that as well.
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He said he would take #1 some weeks ago in a press round if he wins WDC
 
As I've said many times I've always been a neutral F1 fan when it comes to the actual on track racing but of course I'm still human, there are teams and drivers I like on a personal level more than others and to be honest it's rarely easy to ever like a championship contender team. Ferrari and McLaren were always pretty insufferable in the days they were battling, Ferrari more-so, yet now I've no real dislike for either on the whole.

Red Bull used to be the fun, not so serious team with a team boss who chatted **** but usually in a jovial manner.

Mercedes I naturally didn't like the domination but they were personally quite likeable during those years, other than the HAM and ROS squabbling. This season RB and Merc have been pretty irritating and unlikeable with their constant childish bickering, questionable tactics and whining.

Guess in short if you're battling for a championship you're probably going to be hard to like as neutral.
 
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I mean, the FIA is a joke all season 'round. Max was incredible lucky, but as a not huge F1 fan, the rules can be quite tricky. I mean, Max has never even been close to winning this one, Hamilton was on another level. To see the lead disappear because of someone else' mistake is just plain weird to me.

On the other hand, Max has been unlucky a lot of times this year as well. Silverstone, Bottas, the tire blowout... I guess it kinda evens everything.
But what bothers me that there will still be a large FIA/steward smell on the 2021 F1 season, they really need to clear stuff up this winter and try to improve a lot next year. I think it was a joke the the largest motorsport.


Better watch the MotoGP season, for me that's way more fun to watch.
 
My bottom line is ... Masi made a bad call, and then tried to correct it by making another bad call. And yet, it didn't change a thing.

When Masi got the information that the track was clear, he had 2 options - lapped cars overtake or not. That's where he made the error of thinking there wasn't enough time to let the cars overtake and have 1 lap left. So he initially said "no overtaking". He then either heard the comments from Verstappen and the RB pits or it dawned on him that this wasn't in line with any other race in the past couple of years, so he tried to switch to letting them overtake, but only a couple of cars, so he could squeeze it in before the last lap.

The bizarre thing is, that, had he made the decision instantly to let the cars overtake, there would have easily been time enough for all cars to pass Hamilton (it took Masi almost 1 lap to reverse his prior decision), and as soon as the last car would have passed Hamilton, he would have been able to announce "SC in this lap". There's no need from the Sporting Regulations to let them catch up to the back of the field again, so everything would have been in line with the regulations.

But, ironically, even if it had played out that way, it would have changed nothing for the championship. Verstappen would still have been directly behind Hamilton, and most likely things would have played out exactly the same.

ps: Mercedes' protest against the final race classification in my opinion has no legs to stand on. To try to have the result being changed to 2 laps before the end is completely arbitrary, and in the best case for Mercedes the race would be annulled - which would also make Verstappen the champion.
 
As we saw this entire season, decisions yesterday were erratic at best, and that could (and did) go either way. The race's integrity was compromised already by the end of lap 1 with that unexplainable decision regarding Hamilton not giving the place back. That decision alone changed the entire outlook of how the race unfolded.

The way I see it Lewis had yet again a superior car, but what really hampered him was: a) no wingman good enough to rob Max/RBR the freedom to make bold strategic calls; b) a team that got the wrong strategy call by not pitting HAM during the VSC (I can understand the "not pitting" decision at the end, but not that same decision during the VSC.

So, FIA's decisions went both ways. What made the difference here (assuming equal skill from both title contenders) is the the only thing HAM had working for him was a better car. MAX had everything else, especially a strategic team and a team mate that kept MAX always in contention.

(Side note: if Merc #2 was still driven by ROS or a similarly skilled driver, maybe HAM had a better chance. What goes around comes around I guess, and I just hope Russel shines through next year)

All in all a great finale, I don't care much for either title contender, and I dislike their teams, but these two were the better drivers this year and these teams had the better cars so I'm glad I got an interesting championship out of that.
 
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snowgt
ps: Mercedes' protest against the final race classification in my opinion has no legs to stand on. To try to have the result being changed to 2 laps before the end is completely arbitrary, and in the best case for Mercedes the race would be annulled - which would also make Verstappen the champion.
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I haven't seen them say 2 laps before the end, I've seen 1 lap before the end, but in either case they would be going by the rulebook that specify that you go from the last time the race leader crossed the finish line etc.

That's why Mazepin doesn't officially have a fastest lap on the books after Spa because they count back to the lap prior to the final lap.

It's all a big mess with FIA/Masi deciding to wing it with the rules but so far Mercedes are focusing their whining on making everyone follow the rules as written.

And I don't blame them after Brazil. A lot of people here (and elsewhere) were very quick to point out that rules are rules...
 

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