Formula 1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021Formula 1
- Thread starter Jimlaad43
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- Austria
- GTP_SnowCrash
I know one side will fervently disagree with me here, but I've taken an idea from a football-website that used to maintain something that translates to "The True League Table", where they would take out decisions, goals, etc. that in hindsight were deemed to be irregular or unfair. Applying this to the 2021 F1 season, here's what I came up with...
- Race 2/Imola: Hamilton was allowed to repair his damaged car and unlap himself after a red flag when he would have had no chance of points otherwise. (The unlapping was completely unnecessary, because the lapped cars could just as well have been moved to the back of the field in the pits before the restart) This allowed Hamilton to gain 2nd place instead of no points at all.
Hamilton -18
- Race 6/Baku: Verstappen's tyre blows up while in the lead ahead of Perez and Hamilton. In all likelihood, it would have ended in that order, Hamilton would also not have lost his points through the restart.
Verstappen +25
Hamilton +15
- Race 10/Silverstone: Hamilton sends Verstappen into the barriers. As seen in the sprint race, he probably could not have passed any other way.
Verstappen +25
Hamilton -7
Race 11/Budapest: Bottas crashes into Verstappen. Otherwise it likely would have ended Ham/Ver.
Hamilton +7
Verstappen +16
Race 12/Spa: Should not have been started.
Verstappen -12.5
Hamilton -7.5
Race 14/Monza: Without crash, Hamilton would have finished in front of Verstappen.
Hamilton +15
Verstappen +12
__________________
Verstappen: 395.5+25+25+16-12.5+12 = 461
Hamilton: 387.5-18+15-7+7-7.5+15 = 392
Even if you disagree about Silverstone, which, I admit, is not clear cut, the verdict would be that Verstappen has earned that championship.
- Race 2/Imola: Hamilton was allowed to repair his damaged car and unlap himself after a red flag when he would have had no chance of points otherwise. (The unlapping was completely unnecessary, because the lapped cars could just as well have been moved to the back of the field in the pits before the restart) This allowed Hamilton to gain 2nd place instead of no points at all.
Hamilton -18
- Race 6/Baku: Verstappen's tyre blows up while in the lead ahead of Perez and Hamilton. In all likelihood, it would have ended in that order, Hamilton would also not have lost his points through the restart.
Verstappen +25
Hamilton +15
- Race 10/Silverstone: Hamilton sends Verstappen into the barriers. As seen in the sprint race, he probably could not have passed any other way.
Verstappen +25
Hamilton -7
Race 11/Budapest: Bottas crashes into Verstappen. Otherwise it likely would have ended Ham/Ver.
Hamilton +7
Verstappen +16
Race 12/Spa: Should not have been started.
Verstappen -12.5
Hamilton -7.5
Race 14/Monza: Without crash, Hamilton would have finished in front of Verstappen.
Hamilton +15
Verstappen +12
__________________
Verstappen: 395.5+25+25+16-12.5+12 = 461
Hamilton: 387.5-18+15-7+7-7.5+15 = 392
Even if you disagree about Silverstone, which, I admit, is not clear cut, the verdict would be that Verstappen has earned that championship.
- 437
- Merseyside
- merseyxshore
God I love rallying.
Eh, I get the idea but really it's impossible to accurately predict the alternatives because if you're doing "What if this didn't happen" you have to account for "What if this did happen?" as well of which there are infinite possibilities. What would have happened in the rest of Silverstone without the crash? Same for Monza and Hungary. Nobody knows. You can't just assume certain scenarios, no matter how likely.
It is what it is really and the simple fact is the reality of over 21 races VER ended with more points and he's the champion.
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- 1,693
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Where only 2 different drivers have won 17 of the last 18 championships.
- 3,600
- Middelburg
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- Dennisch
And the most used word in the search engines was......
Verstappen's vriendin. (Verstappen's girlfriend)
Bunch of horndogs.
- 2,948
- Austria
- GTP_SnowCrash
Mazepin didn't get the best lap in Spa, because he was outside the top 10.
It's all an interesting case though, because it deals with the question what happens when race control doesn't act according to the rules. But I guess this can then be compared to a football referee whose decisions are final, even in the case they are proven to have been wrong at the time.
- 87,624
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Now add in a load of 5s penalties, as awarded to Norris and Perez at Austria so as to make it consistent, for forcing another driver off in the sprint at Silverstone, at Imola, at Austria (this time Leclerc), at Barcelona, at Brazil, at Saudi Arabia, and at Abu Dhabi, convert the 5s penalty at Monza to a grid penalty at Russia, plus a disqualification at Saudi Arabia for that brake check which caused a collision (and that's being kind; Schumacher was disqualified from an entire season in 1997 for a bad sideswipe which retired his own car, and the FIA's justification was that he... caused a collision), and a 5s penalty for overtaking under the safety car at Abu Dhabi (standard punishment for all cases except this one). Then submit it to Marvel for the next series of What If..?
And this is the problem. Nobody can possibly argue that Verstappen hasn't got the talent to be F1 World Champion with the right car (same as Hamilton, Vettel, Button), or that he hasn't earned this title, because we've all been saying since 2016 that he definitely does. The issue is that he's been allowed to get away with stuff nobody else has even within the same race and, other than the joint-least relevant penalty this season at Saudi (along with Hamilton at the British GP), he's faced no sanction so he's kept on doing it. That is not his fault, but that of stewards failing to apply the laws properly; of course an F1 driver is going to keep doing the most he's allowed to get away with, everyone does that all the time.
Which ultimately renders what happened on Sunday completely unsurprising, even if it was almost the lowest that race officials have ever stooped in the last 15 years (Spa 2007 will never be beaten on that front; inventing a rule to retroactively punish a driver is... all kinds of bent). They just ignored their own rulebook, and Verstappen benefitted from it.
Verstappen still had to be there to benefit from it, and he had to make that pass to win it, so it's also not his fault, and any punishment for him or Red Bull would be grossly unfair (unless collusion could be proven of course, but that's a reach right now - even if Horner got exactly what he asked for just after asking for it... "Michael, we just need one lap without the lapped cars").
Quite so, and it's left a lot of fans - neutral as well as Hamilton fans - wondering what the point of even watching it is, if Liberty's ownership is turning the motor sport into a motor exhibition with WWE-style pre-ordained conclusions depending on who's popular and what will get the most views.
ND4SPD
Premium
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- JeffZ28
- Jeff C6R
I do agree that this was one of the more entertaining seasons in a long time. I'm just incredibly disappointed in how Michael Masi and the Stewards have conducted themselves all year. I wouldn't have had an issue yesterday if Max beat Hamilton on track fairly but the end of yesterday's race just looked like it was all for show to make it more exciting. It's as if they took notes from Nascar to make things more exciting. I wouldn't be surprised if we started getting phantom debris cautions next year. I agree with what Norris said about how the end of yesterday's race was just for TV. I've been watching F1 for about 20 or so years now and I think I might take a break after all that. Congrats to Max as he and redbull did nothing wrong with how the outcome of the race turned out.
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AshenGraey
Premium
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I really was too invested in this season because even after a long night sleep, I still feel bitter about the whole thing. I really can't get over the fact that they just rewrite their own rules in the moment. The more I think about it, the more shady it looks especially since the race concluded the way it did. I get that it is for "entertainment" but I believe red flagging the race and get another restart would have been a lot better, but even then they decided from before the race got going that they would not red flag it...like wtf? I might be the only one in this camp but the only they could make this right is to annul the final classification of the race, Max earned and remained Champion by virtue of having won mores races over the season and Mercedes keeps the constructors title since they were in the lead anyway. Masi and everyone else involved in stewarding this season should just resign look for other jobs.
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- evildave333
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There seems to be a theme running throughout this thread that Masi’s safety car manipulation was an one-time gross abberation that will be corrected, preferrably by his dismissal. The alternative to consider is that yesterday was a turning point for the sport and the powers-that-be are quite happy with the fireworks it created.
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- OJBrit
It has a lot of legal legs to stand on. If what happened with the safety car was illegal then the lap(s) following would also be deemed to be such and thus void. Therefore it would probably act like a red flag and you would have a lap countback which would give Hamilton the win.
It will most likely go to the CAS which would be outside of the FIA's remit and thus Todt would essentially be the defence.
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Scaff
Moderator
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Much of this season had already put me off, this just added the final touch. I have very, very little interest in paying to watch more of the same next year.
It was mentioned earlier that the WRC had only had two champions is too many years (it's actually three, and across five manufacturers), and while that may be true, it at least has always felt like the honest result each and every time, which is the difference for me.
Three, across five manufacturers.
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- Neomone
I remain baffled that in 2021 the cars can't just drop to the back of the pack and have their timing data corrected appropriately. No, instead it's easier and safer to have them go all the way around the track and join up at the back again.
Had the lapped runners just been able to drop to the back of the pack this would have been a non-issue.
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Imagine if you will if this happened earlier in the race. It's a minor point but those cars just dropping back would not have the same fuel loads as the cars upfront since they didn't complete the same amount of laps. Fuel is hardly an issue in F1, but I think it would put them in an even bigger deficit with higher fuel loads onboard. Again, a minor point, but you know someone would complain about it.
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