Formula 1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021Formula 1

[shoemaker]

Quite some send off for a driver who has consistently underperformed

 

[Samus]

Quite some send off for a driver who has consistently underperformed

In terms of his own personal results, yes. 0 titles. For Mercedes he performed exactly how they wanted. Didn't tussle with HAM like ROS did and they won both titles in every season he was there except this one. Easy to see why they're happy with him.

 

[CarreraGT]

Right, but if we're on board with the teams agreeing to extraordinary circumstances in order to finish under green flags I think that's the sort of thing that they're referring to. Normally a red flag would not be used in that situation, but the teams would accept it as it's technically an option under the rules and allows a racing finish.

It's hard for anyone to know, and that's part of the skill of trying to formulate a strategic response to an accident like that. But the championship being on the line and Max and Lewis going at each other as they had been all season, I would hope that a competent race director would have sat down before the race and given some serious thought as to what an appropriate response would be to a crash in the last handful of laps in the race.

Particularly if the discussion has already been had earlier in the year to try and get races to finish under green wherever possible - the sensible thing to do would be sit down and map out as many likely scenarios as possible and establish appropriate responses for them. You can do this without pressure and with plenty of time to seek advice from others, and then when you meet these conditions in a race you at least have a framework upon which to structure your decision. "Crash with 5 to go, leader and contender separated only by backmarkers" should have had an established response.

And honestly, it sounded like it probably did when Masi originally said lapped cars would not be able to overtake. But it then seems like he didn't have the man berries to tell Wolff and Horner to **** off and let him run the race and instead caved to pressure. I'd say we've heard pretty much every driver on the grid tell their engineer to shut up and let them do their thing at one point or another, but the race director couldn't in the heat of the moment. That's a big problem, the person responsible for the safety of the race needs to be of staunch enough character to stand by his own decisions regardless of how many people are screaming in his ear.


Why not? On a wet and slippery track I'd rather have all the cars travelling at roughly the same racing speed than some of them going at safety car speed and trying to keep their tyres warm while some of them are overtaking through the spray. It's going to be a judgement call based on the situation, but I can absolutely see times when it would be acceptable to race but you'd prefer that the lapped cars yield under blues than try and unlap themselves. That's the trade off that you'd be making, and having half the field basically pull over on the restart sounds like an ideal situation for conditions that would be marginal.

As far as doing it in Abu Dhabi, I think the only way Masi could have worked it would be to make the call that the lapped cars wouldn't have time to get out of the way therefore it would be unsafe to let them unlap. That seems to follow the letter of the law, even if it violates the spirit and hopefully none of the teams would have been too mad having already bought into the idea of finishing under green wherever possible. It would have been ********, but it would have been technically legal ******** as Masi absolutely has the last word on what is and isn't safe.

The key takeaway here is the influence of the team principles. Imagine a game of footy where the two coaches had a direct line to the referee. It would be a **** show.

I'm not unhappy with result, but I'm also sure Masi probably wouldn't have let any lapped cars through had Horner not asked him to.

 

[andrea]

 

[MagpieRacer]

Merc will probably leave F1 when Hamilton retires.

That's incredibly unlikely. For starters they're bound until 2025. Russell will carry a huge fan following with him to Mercedes and he will be semi what adopted by Hamilton fans just for being British. And when Hamilton goes, I'd expect to see a move that sends shockwaves through F1.

 

[EngieDiesel]

The only way I would reasonably see Mercedes seriously contemplate leaving Formula 1 is if Ineos backs out first, and future regulation changes make it impossible for them to perform consistently at a top level. And even then it won't be a decision that's made lightly, despite all the sabre rattling and huffy tantrums that normally come about when any top level F1 team isn't fully getting their way.

 

[Imari]

The key takeaway here is the influence of the team principles. Imagine a game of footy where the two coaches had a direct line to the referee. It would be a **** show.

I'm not unhappy with result, but I'm also sure Masi probably wouldn't have let any lapped cars through had Horner not asked him to.

There are sports where this is essentially the case, basketball comes to mind. I'm not sure that it's ever particularly desirable, it seems to me that it's always going to make the refs job harder than it needs to be. But if that's the state of affairs then the referee needs to be strong-minded enough to (a) be able to do their job anyway and (b) tell the coaches to **** off. Which absolutely happens. Coaches and players on the bench in the NBA get warned or get technical fouls if they get too uppity with the refs. Occasionally they even get thrown out.



Horner's job is to advocate for Max. He did what he was supposed to do. Masi's job was to make sure the race was safe and fair. He did fine with the safe part, not so much with the fair part. The principals in his ear makes it harder, but those were the rules of the game that everyone knew they were playing under. This has been going on all year, and the last race of the season seems like when Masi should have been most prepared to deal with it.

 

[Samus]

The difference with these comparisons to other sports is that when it happens there, the game is usually always stopped. Whenever there is some contentious action where players or managers start whining to the ref, they stop the game. The referees then have essentially all the time in the world to compose themselves and make a call, once everyone has been told to back off.

Horner and Wolff were lobbying Masi whilst the race continued live, and he HAD to make the decisions live, with them in his ear. Because of delays we don't know how long was between Horner's lobbying call and Masi making his u-turn call on the lapped cars, but it can't have been long.

EDIT: Just noticed even Wolff himself has said in an interview that he realised they stepped over the mark and it needs to be stopped. Fair play.

Wolff: Team boss radio chat with F1 race control should be banned

www.motorsport.com

“I need to take myself by the nose, and Christian. We were given the opportunity to talk to the race director directly, and because we fight so fiercely for the interests of our teams all of us overstepped.

“It certainly was part of the failures this year that under pressure from the team principals also the race director’s life wasn’t made easier, certainly.”

 

[GroupB]

Even the ape gets it.

Jeremy Clarkson:
"As we all know, Max Verstappen won the Formula One world championship last weekend.

But as we also know, he didn’t. No really.

I haven’t been a Lewis Hamilton fan for some time now. He seems to get all his views from the far Left-wing outer reaches of social media and somehow isn’t able to see that all the woke stuff about environmentalism flies in the face of what he does for a living.

And yet, my views completely changed after that heart-stopping final race because, my God, he was dignified. He must have been seething inside, and sad to the point of despair. But instead of moaning, he simply smiled and congratulated Max Verstappen.

He got his knighthood this week. And for that post-race interview alone, he deserved it.

The officials that run Formula One, however. That’s a different story. Because what they deserve is a smacked bottom.”

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The difference with these comparisons to other sports is that when it happens there, the game is usually always stopped. Whenever there is some contentious action where players or managers start whining to the ref, they stop the game. The referees then have essentially all the time in the world to compose themselves and make a call, once everyone has been told to back off.

Horner and Wolff were lobbying Masi whilst the race continued live, and he HAD to make the decisions live, with them in his ear. Because of delays we don't know how long was between Horner's lobbying call and Masi making his u-turn call on the lapped cars, but it can't have been long.

EDIT: Just noticed even Wolff himself has said in an interview that he realised they stepped over the mark and it needs to be stopped. Fair play.

Wolff: Team boss radio chat with F1 race control should be banned

www.motorsport.com

Pretty much all the stuff that's being quoted on various sites is from this conference:

Toto's post season press conference:


13:40 for a question and response to a question about the FIA's statement that was released. He mentioned that at the time the statement was made the FIA didn't know whether they were going to withdraw the appeal.

The quote from your article is from a question at 17:40. He did mention that he was part of the decision also to broadcast more of the radio communications for entertainment and transparency, but he thinks they overshot.

 

[andrea]

 

[O604]

So now they act like the ONLY issue is that teams talk too much to officials. Then how about taking some blame for allowing it? Or are they blaming fans for this too? I can't imagine how they will act if something terrible happens to one of the drivers. Blame the fans for cheering too loud, maybe?

Even the teams and drivers say they don't understand the rules. The problems are with YOUR rules. That YOU make and enforce. It's YOUR responsibility to make them clearer to everyone else. Clearly YOU have failed.

 

[andrea]

 

[O604]

I saw this report about Mercedes agreeing to rule changes to drop MGU-H to allow for more competition. From MB POV, they must have had questions about philosophical alignments, ie environmental, economical, etc... even before any racing controversy.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-agrees-to-ditch-mgu-h-as-part-of-new-engine-rules/6885631/

 

[DJShadesUK]

He did fine with the safe part

Except he didn't. He skipped two important safety procedures; 1) The "following lap" directive of 48.12, which is there to ensure any cars unlapping themselves are well clear of the leaders and so do not pose a further danger to either themselves or the much faster cars coming up behind them; and 2) skipped part of 48.13 which, in relation to 48.12, is intended to be a final check that it truly is safe to go racing again. Regardless of the fact Masi changed the outcome of the race the fact he ignored procedures to keep everyone safe - safety procedures that have sometimes been learnt through extremely tough lessons - should be reason enough for all teams, drivers, marshalls and anyone else he put at risk, to insist that he be "redeployed".

Even the teams and drivers say they don't understand the rules. The problems are with YOUR rules. That YOU make and enforce. It's YOUR responsibility to make them clearer to everyone else. Clearly YOU have failed.

I don't think I've seen any teams or drivers saying they don't understand the rules, not as they're written anyway. The problem is when someone like Masi decides to unilaterally change the rules which not only makes for an unfair competition, especially during a race, but poses a seriously grave risk to the safety of competitors and officials.

 

[O604]

I don't think I've seen any teams or drivers saying they don't understand the rules, not as they're written anyway. The problem is when someone like Masi decides to unilaterally change the rules which not only makes for an unfair competition, especially during a race, but poses a seriously grave risk to the safety of competitors and officials.

To me, it sounds like they don't. But I suppose it could just be articles like this are a collection of quotes to make it seem that way.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/23...arity-after-meeting-over-verstappen-incident/

 

[BrainsBush]

To me, it sounds like they don't. But I suppose it could just be articles like this are a collection of quotes to make it seem that way.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/23...arity-after-meeting-over-verstappen-incident/

The drivers themselves multiple times asked for consistency and clear rules during this and previous seasons. The last controversy with Lewis and Max was another example of this unclear/unconsistent use of the rule book.

Again for the X time the teams 'demanded' this before the new season will start...

 

[DJShadesUK]

To me, it sounds like they don't. But I suppose it could just be articles like this are a collection of quotes to make it seem that way.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/23...arity-after-meeting-over-verstappen-incident/

That article is referring to a different situation though; the consistency of stewards decisions.

While most sports have to contend with inconsistency its not quite the same as the rules being thrown out the window during the event itself.

 

[GroupB]

Neither Mercedes nor Lewis wanted to drop the appeal, as they felt they had a strong legal case. Ultimately they thought a court victory would be unlikely to overturn the championship result, so they decided not to proceed.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/17...-have-won-an-appeal-but-still-lost-the-title/

 

[Imari]

Neither Mercedes nor Lewis wanted to drop the appeal, as they felt they had a strong legal case. Ultimately they thought a court victory would be unlikely to overturn the championship result, so they decided not to proceed.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/17...-have-won-an-appeal-but-still-lost-the-title/

It's a shame that they couldn't proceed with the appeal on the basis that if they won Red Bull had to buy Lewis and Toto and ice cream cone each.

I think the value would have been in the open investigation and discussion of the decisions made, not any alteration to the championship. It's a case of getting to the right result (or at least, an acceptable result) by absolutely the wrong path.

 

[WiisardNic]

It's a shame that they couldn't proceed with the appeal on the basis that if they won Red Bull had to buy Lewis and Toto and ice cream cone each.

I think the value would have been in the open investigation and discussion of the decisions made, not any alteration to the championship. It's a case of getting to the right result (or at least, an acceptable result) by absolutely the wrong path.

I'm assuming, that's what Mercedes' (and a lot of F1's fans and stakeholders) hope is for this inquiry that was announced

 

[Samus]

I'm assuming, that's what Mercedes' (and a lot of F1's fans and stakeholders) hope is for this inquiry that was announced

Well the new boss says it won't happen again but he'll wait for the results of the inquiry before doing anything. Still pretty sceptical personally.

Neuer FIA-Präsident verspricht: Abu Dhabi wird sich nicht wiederholen

Mohammed Ben Sulayems erste Amtsaufgabe ist die Aufarbeitung der Ereignisse von Abu Dhabi, für die er schon jetzt verspricht, dass sie sich nicht wiederholen werden

www.motorsport-total.com

New FIA president promises: Abu Dhabi will not be repeated

Mohammed Ben Sulayem's first task in office is to come to terms with the events of Abu Dhabi, for which he already promises they will not be repeated

(Motorsport-Total.com) - New FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem has promised Formula One fans that the world governing body for motor sport will do whatever is necessary to ensure a controversy like the one at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix is not repeated.

The late safety car period in Abu Dhabi reversed all the signs for the winner ZoomBen Sulayem's election to the FIA's top job came just days after Formula One's season finale, particularly race director Michael Masi's handling of the safety car period, drew widespread criticism. Max Verstappen benefited as the beaming winner, while Lewis Hamilton lost out.

The FIA's World Motor Sport Council has already announced plans for an investigation into the Abu Dhabi events, to which Sulayem stressed that he wanted to wait for the full results of the before deciding on the best course of action.

Ben Sulayem: "The sport is too significant for that."

In his opinion, it would be completely wrong of him to react hastily without fully understanding the circumstances of what happened. "We will look at the rules and we are sure that if such a situation occurs in the future, we will find a solution immediately - or we will even avoid it," he said.

The new president is open to possible changes, saying, "There are so many areas we can improve. We can't just sit down and say we're good. No, that's not enough in a sport that is so powerful and so important."

Ben Sulayem will also directly decide whether Formula 1 will stick with race director Michael Masi. His future has been the subject of intense speculation in recent days. But here, too, the new FIA president does not want to make a hasty judgment.

Struggle for FIA credibility as new boss.

"We have to look at the matter carefully. I have just been elected and I will deal with it soon. I have a meeting with the staff and will look at every single issue that can be improved. But I definitely won't make any rash decisions."

The 60-year-old knows what is at stake, as the credibility of the world governing body has suffered from recent events. He therefore wants to devote himself fully to his new task, which is why Ben Sulayem has promised to withdraw from other tasks outside the FIA in the future.

"We have good structures and teams. But there is always room for improvement," Jean Todt's successor looks ahead. "For my part, I will devote myself entirely to this. I will have no other job than that of FIA president. I have resigned all my other duties."

And Ben Sulayem assures, "I will be passionate about the job, and with the right team by my side. I have a good team and we want to get even better. That's the reason why the FIA is credible.

 

[andrea]

 

[Rossell2]

Brb sorting out link.

Nicholas Latifi (@NicholasLatifi) Tweeted: A message from me after the events of Abu Dhabi

 

[O604]

Brb sorting out link.

Nicholas Latifi (@NicholasLatifi) Tweeted: A message from me after the events of Abu Dhabi

Sounds to me like Laitifi experienced 15 minutes of hate that Hamilton gets every year.

As a Canadian, it's hard to support the 2 in F1 at the moment. Both drivers have US licenses (because Canada lacks a united body). I don't think either raced much in Canada, unlike the Villeneuves who did quite a bit on the way up.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Driver predictions from Bahrain:

 

[andrea]

So glad that Max mentioned the “Checo is the Mexican minister of defense” meme is fantastic.



On the RB signature wall:

 

[GingerBredMan]

As a Canadian, it's hard to support the 2 in F1 at the moment. Both drivers have US licenses (because Canada lacks a united body). I don't think either raced much in Canada, unlike the Villeneuves who did quite a bit on the way up.

I agree with this completely. Both guys are essentially pay drivers, although Stroll’s situation is much more aggravating. While Lance has had some decent results, it seems like he’ll be in F1 far longer than he should be. It would be nice to see a Canadian on the grid that might actually have a chance at a championship.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Even the ape gets it.

Jeremy Clarkson:
"As we all know, Max Verstappen won the Formula One world championship last weekend.

But as we also know, he didn’t. No really.

I haven’t been a Lewis Hamilton fan for some time now. He seems to get all his views from the far Left-wing outer reaches of social media and somehow isn’t able to see that all the woke stuff about environmentalism flies in the face of what he does for a living.

And yet, my views completely changed after that heart-stopping final race because, my God, he was dignified. He must have been seething inside, and sad to the point of despair. But instead of moaning, he simply smiled and congratulated Max Verstappen.

He got his knighthood this week. And for that post-race interview alone, he deserved it.

The officials that run Formula One, however. That’s a different story. Because what they deserve is a smacked bottom.”

Gotta be careful. Max Mosley would've enjoyed that.

 

[andrea]

F1 is just a stepping stone to improve your rating in iRacing.