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Formula 1 Gran Premio de España Santander 2012
- Thread starter astrosdude91
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- HamiltonMP427
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- HamiltonMP427
I have to admit that I too was not that massive Alonso fan, and with the racial issues some years ago at the Spanish grand prix that Alonso fans had toward Hamilton made it worse. Yet he didn't condone them and with giving winning to his team as well as his great race craft I started to become a fan of Alonso or appreciate his style in F1.
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It was only Bruno Senna's car.Well they've already lost one of their cars
But in all seriousness, they'll have spares. Most teams will build up to eight chassis over the course of a season, which can either be cannibalised for parts or used as an outright replacement. I still remember that when Jenson Button won the 2009 title, Brawn's budget was so small that they only had enough money for three chassis, and Rubens Barrichello used the space after crashing in Singapore qualifying. When Button crossed the line at Interlagos, he did so in a car that had contested every single pre-season test, free practice session, qualifying and race in the year.
Anyway, the smartest thing for Williams to do right now is ditch Senna's chassis and fly a spare out to Monaco. They don't think there's any damage, but they need to go over it with a fine-toothed comb to be sure. That way, they can examine the fire-damaged chassis in their own good time, and they can be sure the car is good to drive in the future.
ExigeEvan
Premium
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That's amazing. I'd have been sure the chassis would have be suffering from all sorts of creep and stress fractures with all that abuse.
Great engineering 👍
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And then he went on to use that same car in every session in Abu Dhabi, and still finished on the podium. The car had done more milage before the first race than most cars do over the course of a season, and by the end of the year it had gone some 30,000km.
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- Burnout_PT
(more precisely it's past "Gifted", so BadGifted or BadlyGifted?)
Accurate.
Playing mind games with a guy named Senna and loosing IMO. Since 1991...
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Is there a F1 Monaco thread already? I'll just leave this here then... this would be a great finish order for it:
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- F1fan1
But the point is, we really do not know where everyone is in terms of performance. So far, we've had a season where no team has really staked their position at the front. From what I've seen, McLaren have the best car, but they've made too many mistakes as a team and, quite frankly, Jenson needs to find some form. Behind them, there is a very close group with no definitive order. We've had five drivers from five teams win races.
Taking a complete guess here, but if the circumstances are right, Raikkonen could possibly take a win. Grosjean too, but there would need to be a bit of luck for that to happen. We all saw what Perez accomplished in Malaysia and know that a win is possible, but is looking a little unlikely now. Next, we head to Monaco, where Kamui had a very good result last year. But how do we determine the order relative to car performance? Are we so sure that the Ferrari is so terrible even with the upgrades? The gap between Alonso and Massa is huge, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Alonso is performing miracles. Perhaps he's just extracting the maximum from the car and Felipe is just really that bad? Red Bull clearly don't have the best car, yet they still lead both championships.
Moving on to Williams. Consider this. Maldonado has only had three (yes, three) top ten finishes in Formula one in 24 starts. Fair enough, he's had some bad luck. Hamilton at Monaco, car problems or just chucking it off the road and into a barrier. But to take his first win after previously only having an 8th and a 10th place to his name is quite something. Now how do we determine how good that result was? When Pastor debuted, people questioned his abilities. He was saddled with a dog of a car, yet still had a special day at Monaco. Had it not been for Hamilton taking him out, he would have beaten Barrichello in the championship.
We saw a strong showing with a harsh ending in Melbourne, another promising result taken away by an engine failure, an eighth place in China, a Q1 knockout and a retirement in Bahrain and now a win.
How can we honestly assess where that car is? It's possible that it's the best car in the field but the drivers aren't getting the most out of it. Or it's possible that it's simply a good car that delivered a win due to a stunning drive by Maldonado. The point is, that we've had too much inconsistency this season to say what car is second best, third best etc.
People like that are a disgrace. I remember when Alonso was taken out by Nakajima at Valencia in 2008. Some people stood up and left the circuit. People like that are not F1 fans. They are simply Alonso fans. The racism issue was sickening, but should not affect the way someone thinks about Alonso.
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- tribolik
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- gorsad
- gorsadamad
That's more mileage then my car, me = surprised .
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- Burnout_PT
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- tribolik
Maybe he will get the one that Valtteri Bottas has been using... that one seems to be able to put in some good lap times in P1
in other words trying to be funny 
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- Ardius_
I think its a bit extreme to now say that Senna should be binned seeing as he was doing ok this season till this race. But certainly it doesn't help being involved in half the accidents in the race while your teammate is winning. I hope for Bruno's sake he sorts himself out and finds an error-free weekend where he can put in a similar performance to Pastor.
When was that? The 1950s? Even back then there were politics. Motorsport has always been expensive and has always required people to put in money to get anywhere - this has never changed and never will.
As for politics, well firstly politics is not something that comes and goes - its always there humans = politics. Secondly, the politics make half the interest!
I'd still argue that the taleneted drivers are still getting to F1. Can we really look at todays grid and say none of them are not talented? (well, except maybe Kathikeyan)
What about all of the thousands of drivers that never get past karting due to funding issues? People like Bottas, Vettel, Hamilton...they all got where they are because they managed to find money where their rivals did not.
When was that? The 1950s? Even back then there were politics. Motorsport has always been expensive and has always required people to put in money to get anywhere - this has never changed and never will.
As for politics, well firstly politics is not something that comes and goes - its always there humans = politics. Secondly, the politics make half the interest!
I'd still argue that the taleneted drivers are still getting to F1. Can we really look at todays grid and say none of them are not talented? (well, except maybe Kathikeyan)
What about all of the thousands of drivers that never get past karting due to funding issues? People like Bottas, Vettel, Hamilton...they all got where they are because they managed to find money where their rivals did not.
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^Yes but if you read into it, the Hamiltons put a serious amount of time and money in. Its not like McLaren hand-held them up the ranks.
People have the same misconception with Red Bull - yes Red Bull help pay a lot of the costs but the sheer demand on performance they have is almost ridiculous. You seem to get one season with Red Bull and if you screw up just a little bit you are dropped like a hot potato. Of course they are well within their rights to do that but they've really screwed quite a few drivers in junior formula - better to be a guy like Max Chilton with your Dad's company sponsoring you all the way than to have corporations like Red Bull screw you around if you have bad luck or just a rough season.
Vettel also was helped a bit by BMW I believe (and Schumacher) but I'm sure he too did the rounds getting sponsors when he had to.
Anyway another amusing bit on Raikkonen from this weeekend from Williams' facebook:
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People have the same misconception with Red Bull - yes Red Bull help pay a lot of the costs but the sheer demand on performance they have is almost ridiculous. You seem to get one season with Red Bull and if you screw up just a little bit you are dropped like a hot potato. Of course they are well within their rights to do that but they've really screwed quite a few drivers in junior formula - better to be a guy like Max Chilton with your Dad's company sponsoring you all the way than to have corporations like Red Bull screw you around if you have bad luck or just a rough season.
Vettel also was helped a bit by BMW I believe (and Schumacher) but I'm sure he too did the rounds getting sponsors when he had to.
Anyway another amusing bit on Raikkonen from this weeekend from Williams' facebook:
WilliamsF1
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Wow, the tragic things a retirement can do for a driver when his teammate poles and wins.
Maldoando's win really is exaggerating Senna's poor performance this weekend. Now all I can hear is, "When is he going to be sacked?", "Is he worth the money?", as if he hadn't been beating his teammate in the races before now, and putting on a fairly consistent show whenever he's been able.
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He's believed to bring in about $15 million, in comparison to Maldonado, who is good for $40 million.
A lot of that would hinge on the way sponsor dollars are paid out. Sponsors rarely put all the money up-front; they stagger it over the course of the season, just in case the driver does not live up to expectations. That way, if the driver is dropped mid-season, their losses are minimised.
While Senna's contract will no doubt have a clause that requires all money be paid on-time if he wants to keep his seat, there is also going to be a performance clause (pretty much every driver has one). If he fails to meet the conditions of that clause, the team can drop him irrespective of when the sponsors are due to pay.
These days, most sponsors attach themselves to the most-talented drivers because those drivers stand the best chance of getting into Formula 1, which will give the sponsors maximum coverage. There's only half a dozen drivers who don't bring sponsors to their teams.
Bottas is managed by Toto Wollf, who is an investment banker. He doubtless knows a few people who might be interested in sponsoring the team through Bottas if the opportunity presents itself. Especially given the way the team think so highly of him, as well as their new-found form.
In a perfect world, the twenty-four cars would be driven by the twenty-four most-talented men and women in the world. But in that perfect world, all of the teams would be broke. Just be thankful that Formula 1 isn't doing what GP2 and GP3 are doing, with individual sponsor decals for each driver (though as both series are comparatively cheaper than Formula 1, it's less of a big deal).
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- astrosdude91
Well if this were a perfect world, then the teams would also have infinite budgets.
RTSolvalou
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I have to say, I really liked seeing Williams demonstrate how tire strategy is correctly done; the exact opposite of what Lotus have been doing all this season and last.
And Hamilton's 2-stop run was something.
Can't wait for the Monaco thread, there is more to talk/speculate about than it seems... But I guess it can wait (I just didn't want autosport to beat me to certain speculation/news etc)
And Hamilton's 2-stop run was something.
Can't wait for the Monaco thread, there is more to talk/speculate about than it seems... But I guess it can wait (I just didn't want autosport to beat me to certain speculation/news etc)
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Yes I know we don't know, and I make notice of that in my post. McLaren having the best car, is somewhat to me. Slim margin.
This is why I can see four to five tiers in F1 as of round five heading to round six. Tier 1 being McLaren, but not by much. Tier 2 being red bull if you look at it as Five overall tiers; or RBR, Ferrari, Sauber, Williams, Lotus, and Merc GP as tier 2. Tier 3 would be STR and FI. There is no getting around it as of Round five going to six, STR have not shown anything that would help conclude them in the running for a podium a win for them looks that much more bleak. FI looks closer but not something to write home about. Let me clarify again though, this is just my opinion thus far.
The final tier being the other three.
Let's consider this, the end of the day numbers don't tell the story of the grey areas these F1 rounds have produced. Pastor ran sixth while gaining on Alonso, and then wrecked it so we saw early on that the car was fast and Bruno gaining was another show till he screwed that up. Hence me partially saying both drivers need to calm down a bit. Bruno showed in Malaysia just how quick the car was and even started posting quickest laps during the period. Same race Pastor had a top ten run till engine blew up. Bruno and Pastor at China both showed how fast the car could be. Bahrain showed a quick Senna and Pastor, however that wasn't enough and both saw the garage all to early.
Point is 8th and 10th are a narrow view for those who want to look at stats and not dive into reading the story of each race. I will agree I didn't see a win, but I easily saw a podium and still see one for Bruno. Time will tell, yet I think Williams have a great chance of being third or even second in the WDC if they get their strategy together like they did this past weekend.
No one is making it an absolute, I am only saying they're in the running for second or third when you compare it to the others among them. We know the car is quick and that the driver line up isn't as bad as many make it out to be. Now exactly what track the car is best at, well that needs more time. However, you can make a short term idea of how the car might turn out next week. That's the point I'm trying to make. I've never made long term suggestions and didn't in the post you quoted. I realize one can't know how this season will go, just look how crazy it has been.
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Give him till race 10 guys. Geez five rounds out of 20 and you already brought him to the firing squad. I ever rarely agree with Peter, but he makes a solid point along with At 1ness.
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Knowing how much you dislike Bruno Senna already (wouldn't be surprised if you said the opposite) which at times comes close to F1 fan's treatment of Lewis. Yes he spun off, but doesn't detract that he has driven a good drive thus far, when qualifying starts to yield points toward the WDC and WCC then we should chat.
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+1^ 👍
And to add, it's not like other F1 drivers never make mistakes is it?... and sometimes, drivers just have bad luck in a race (maybe not in this instance) but Bruno does have his fair share (well in GP2 anyway, 2008 Turkish GP, hit a dog on track).
