Formula 1 Heineken Grande Prêmio De São Paulo 2021Formula 1

[andrea]

There are videos of Hamilton pushing and pulling the wheel during the race, resurrected DAS could explain a lot, but that would be illegal.

 

[McLaren]

It's a real shame that Max is unable to race wheel-to-wheel without making it so "you lift off or we crash". It's been like that all season and the only times other cars have decided not to get out of Max's way, they've crashed (Silverstone and Monza). He can't race cleanly and Red Bull seem to think that's OK because they're encouraging it at every opportunity. This Brazil one was a clear case of Max just braking too late and not caring about the car ahead on his outside who has to get out of his way. However, it just needed a Black and White flag to tell him "that's not OK" because it wasn't worth a penalty as Lewis has the brains to allow it to happen and live to race another lap. Bottas on lap 1 was on the outside, but like every other race this year Max just pushed a car off the track and expected them to get out of his way, even though they have the right to space. Lewis has been guilty of that in the past with Rosberg, and got a load more 💩 for it than Max ever did because haha Bottas bad. Max has the points buffer that he knows he can keep driving Hamilton off the track like that because a double DNF benefits him not Lewis, so unless it starts being punished or at least investigated properly without the team managers whining to Michael Masi being broadcast we'll end up with the title decided by both drivers ending up with damaged suspension at the chicane at Abu Dhabi when Max just gives up on even making the white line.

Max's reaction to it was really poor. I don't think the Black & White flag is something we see very often b/c any unsportsmanlike conduct usually ends up getting further investigated, so to retort, "Yeah perfect, say hi" as if he was being slighted by the FIA for "defending" was like watching old Max.

There are videos of Hamilton pushing and pulling the wheel during the race, resurrected DAS could explain a lot, but that would be illegal.

That was quickly debunked on the very place others tried to push it on the F1 subreddit.

 

[DK]

Even though we probably have the closest fight for the Championship in the last decade, I'm still considering keeping the TV turned off that weekend.

At least there's less likelihood of a brochure for the Dutch commentators to read from. David Croft going full Michael Cole is the stuff of nightmares.

 

[Samus]

Honestly though, how seriously can we take F1 going forward if we never see that onboard?

I really don't think that it's as relevant as people suggest. Whether he did it somewhat deliberately or not is completely irrelevant to the rules which say you can't force/crowd another car off the track. Full Stop. Whether accidental or purposely is not mentioned.

I mean sure, it'd be interesting to see but it shouldn't have had a bearing on the action, which really was the textbook definition of the misdemeanour. How they decided that he hadn't forced HAM off the track I have no idea.

 

[McLaren]

Race speeds from yesterday.

Someone on Reddit shared that Kimi had the 5th fastest lap time of the race. Man was consistently up there in the trap speeds.

 

[Samus]

Race speeds from yesterday.

Someone on Reddit shared that Kimi had the 5th fastest lap time of the race. Man was consistently up there in the trap speeds.

But...but...the conspiracies. The magical Mercedes engine. The, the...

I joke but yeah, clearly Max just had a very draggy car.

 

[Famine]

F1 releases a brand new camera angle from the Brazilian Grand Prix!



Of Lewis Hamilton's celebratory champagne bottle.

I don't even.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

So that's where Verstappen's camera went.

 

[GingerBredMan]

I really don't think that it's as relevant as people suggest. Whether he did it somewhat deliberately or not is completely irrelevant to the rules which say you can't force/crowd another car off the track. Full Stop. Whether accidental or purposely is not mentioned.

I mean sure, it'd be interesting to see but it shouldn't have had a bearing on the action, which really was the textbook definition of the misdemeanour. How they decided that he hadn't forced HAM off the track I have no idea.

I think we're gonna have to disagree on that one. F1 was quick to dismiss the incident, only for us to find out that they didn't have all of the relevant replay angles that would help them make that decision, and hardly an explanation of why they did that. It all seems very sketchy.

 

[Samus]

I think we're gonna have to disagree on that one. F1 was quick to dismiss the incident, only for us to find out that they didn't have all of the relevant replay angles that would help them make that decision, and hardly an explanation of why they did that. It all seems very sketchy.

I agree with you on the sketchy part, what I was getting at was that they shouldn't have even needed that angle to make the decision. The angles they/we did have already clearly show HAM was forced off the track by VER. If they/we were to see he did it deliberately by opening the wheel it would have looked worse, but it wouldn't change the facts by the rulebook. Most negative actions in F1 are not deliberate, they still get (rightly) punished.

 

[kungtotte_]

I agree with you on the sketchy part, what I was getting at was that they shouldn't have even needed that angle to make the decision. The angles they/we did have already clearly show HAM was forced off the track by VER. If they/we were to see he did it deliberately by opening the wheel it would have looked worse, but it wouldn't change the facts by the rulebook. Most negative actions in F1 are not deliberate, they still get (rightly) punished.

George Russell got slapped with a grid place penalty in the Silverstone sprint for locking up and forcing Carlos Sainz off track on lap 1, clearly a mistake and nothing intentional about it but the stewards thought it fell under Article 27.4 (I think that's the one) that says you can't drive dangerously.

So yeah, you make a good point.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The Red Bulls were still significantly slower than most in the speed trap.

Race speeds from yesterday.

Someone on Reddit shared that Kimi had the 5th fastest lap time of the race. Man was consistently up there in the trap speeds.

But...but...the conspiracies. The magical Mercedes engine. The, the...

I joke but yeah, clearly Max just had a very draggy car.

Alright alright I rest my case, the Mercedes is quite simply BETTER in a straight line. It was just made more obvious due to the layout of Interlagos. I don't think it'll the be the same situation at the remaining tracks because they're more dependent on downforce.

 

[Grayfox]

Because it's a new engine reportedly turned up back to "Party Mode"

Would that not be against the engine mode rule ban?

They had Map A now they're using Map B.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Would that not be against the engine mode rule ban?

They had Map A now they're using Map B.

That's what I thought, but I don't know if that would apply to all their engines.

 

[Samus]

Would that not be against the engine mode rule ban?

They had Map A now they're using Map B.

No, you can change the engine mode any time in the season if you want, and everyone absolutely is running a slightly different one each race. The only rule is that you can't change modes between qualifying and the race. Whatever mode you've used there, you also use in 100% of the race. That is all it was set up for. To stop 'party modes' in qualifying and then running a lesser mode in the race, and switching modes mid-race.

So as long as Mercedes are using 'party mode' in both, which they obviously are, it's fine.

 

[Famine]

The footage is out, and it shows Verstappen had catastrophic understeer (caused by braking 30m too late and steaming in at 20mph over normal speeds).

Next up, the Queen's nunny, I guess.

 

[GingerBredMan]

Ah, so they were saving the replay for the gram, makes perfect sense.

It's funny how the camera conveniently pans to the right so you can't see how badly he missed the apex.

 

[DG_Silva]

The footage is out, and it shows Verstappen had catastrophic understeer (caused by braking 30m too late and steaming in at 20mph over normal speeds).

Next up, the Queen's nunny, I guess.

No, it was definitely tyre wear that caused the understeer..... /s

Edit: I guess we can rule out turning right though...

 

[Jimlaad43]

Ah, so they were saving the replay for the gram, makes perfect sense.

It's funny how the camera conveniently pans to the right so you can't see how badly he missed the apex.

Nah, it's fully wide-screen on F1.com

WATCH: All the angles of Hamilton and Verstappen's Lap 48 battle in Brazil – including Red Bull onboard | Formula 1®

Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton and Red Bull's Max Verstappen clashed again at the Brazilian Grand Prix in a thrilling battle for the lead - take a look at all the angles from their Lap 48 tussle right here...

www.formula1.com

That was almost Rosberg levels of turning in late to the corner.

 

[GingerBredMan]

Nah, it's fully wide-screen on F1.com

WATCH: All the angles of Hamilton and Verstappen's Lap 48 battle in Brazil – including Red Bull onboard | Formula 1®

Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton and Red Bull's Max Verstappen clashed again at the Brazilian Grand Prix in a thrilling battle for the lead - take a look at all the angles from their Lap 48 tussle right here...

www.formula1.com

That was almost Rosberg levels of turning in late to the corner.

Ah, I thought that was more F1 trickery. Looks as bad as expected. I'm sure Masi's phone will be off until Sunday.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Oh boy, here we go!

Mercedes asks for right to review over Verstappen/Hamilton incident

www.motorsport.com

I take it Mercedes decided to use relevant new information rather than sending Vandoorne out there on Monday to drive up the inside of Turn 4.

 

[Rossell2]

Well the FIA have shot the self in the foot I think by admitting they didn't use Verstappens onboard.

I mean it's likely to come to nothing, it's just to ruffle some feathers.

 

[Famine]

Just for comedy's sakes, today is Christian "Whinger Spice" Horner's birthday...

 

[pumaATTACK]

Is there actually a possibility of penalties being handed out?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Is there actually a possibility of penalties being handed out?

Given the lack of consistency, anything is possible.

 

[AshenGraey]

I don't think anything will happen after the fact especially since they decided to not investigate the first time....but I find it hilarious that Mercedes is doing the same thing Red Bull has done to them in the past....things are getting personal 😂

Looking at those footage though, Max clearly forced Lewis off the track and honestly I think he should have been penalized. I think the fact that Horner was so quick to get with Massi to say that it's just hard racing is quite a telling. Its interesting that's always his response when Max pull that move on another driver but when someone else does it to Max that driver deserve a race ban. I know I'm being a bit over dramatic but Horner can be such a hypocrite.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

It's kind of to be expected from Christian. He admitted as much last weekend, that if it was the other way around they would likely be instructing the director to have a look at it. It's part of his job to advocate for his driver, though he does go a bit more extreme than Toto.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Oh boy, here we go!

Mercedes asks for right to review over Verstappen/Hamilton incident

www.motorsport.com

I take it Mercedes decided to use relevant new information rather than sending Vandoorne out there on Monday to drive up the inside of Turn 4.

Watch as they say the footage is not significant or relevant enough.

 

[McLaren]

It's kind of to be expected from Christian. He admitted as much last weekend, that if it was the other way around they would likely be instructing the director to have a look at it. It's part of his job to advocate for his driver, though he does go a bit more extreme than Toto.

Toto this weekend though, had some real different energy. Agitated Toto scares me.

Brilliant job, damage limitation. **** them all

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Watch as they say the footage is not significant or relevant enough.

I could see that. They said no investigation is needed, so it kind of seems like they let it go without too much consideration. They could say the new evidence is not relevant.