Formula One Eni Magyar Nagydij 2011
- Thread starter astrosdude91
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It's easy to look at the final laps and say that Webber has a big disadvantage... but that ignores how close the Red Bulls were through Q2 and the first flyer of Q3.
Webber, in fact, was faster than Vettel in Q2. Both RBR drivers cut similar lap times on their first flyer of Q3. The difference is Vettel was able to punch out a better lap on the second flyer, while Mark floundered. This is where the "cold tires" and KERS issue comes in.
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Most of the teams seem to have been playing with KERS. The issue is that they wanted the KERS available during the flyer, but the regenerative component deactivated because it interfered too much with braking.
I don't think that was a failure of tactics. Hamilton still used one less set than everyone else... he's forced the other front-runners to use all three sets in qualifying. Personally, I would've parked it instead of taking a second flyer... but having one extra set of Super Softs is often enough, as the tracks often rubber-in well enough for the prime tires by the latter part of the race.
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Force India are really picking up mid-season. Almost got both cars into Q3 if not for Perez's incredible run in Q2. đź‘Ť
Webber, in fact, was faster than Vettel in Q2. Both RBR drivers cut similar lap times on their first flyer of Q3. The difference is Vettel was able to punch out a better lap on the second flyer, while Mark floundered. This is where the "cold tires" and KERS issue comes in.
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Most of the teams seem to have been playing with KERS. The issue is that they wanted the KERS available during the flyer, but the regenerative component deactivated because it interfered too much with braking.
I don't think that was a failure of tactics. Hamilton still used one less set than everyone else... he's forced the other front-runners to use all three sets in qualifying. Personally, I would've parked it instead of taking a second flyer... but having one extra set of Super Softs is often enough, as the tracks often rubber-in well enough for the prime tires by the latter part of the race.
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Force India are really picking up mid-season. Almost got both cars into Q3 if not for Perez's incredible run in Q2. đź‘Ť
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- alexpkas
Oh guys come on, really?
I posted this as he posted the EXACT same thing as a response to my troll-face JOKE, yes it was a JOKE. I just find these faces funny, that-is-all. Everybody's just butt-hurt in a second, you people should calm down. (Those, who feel insulted/attacked/provoked by every **** basically).
So yeah, chill out please.
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This was must my understanding too. Lewis was quick enough to get through to Q3 without using sper softs. I suspect all the other front runners (at least Vettel and Alonso) would've been quick enough as well, but it helps to have that extra set of SS's on hand just in case. Still, he has to hope he can pip Vettel at the start to turn 1, otherwise Vettel probably would go on to win.
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Webber did say that the rear suspension was changed on Vettel's car during the curfew session, but was not changed on his - but he also said he had left the circuit before the decision was made and did not have any issues with his suspension, so the team had no reason to change it.
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Conspiracies?, I thought this was F1, just sells outs.
Anyway, I quite like this qualifying session, however I was somewhat shock by Webber's performance, maybe he got distracted by something or the set up wasn't the right one, apart from that, I was also shock by Vettels pole, it was somewhat surprising specially after the pace that LH show in the penultimate lap.
Predictions, maybe Vettel will win this one if he doesn't go too mental with the tyres, Button vs Hamilton will be interesting and I sincerely expect that Massa outqualifies Alonso, I just hope that Webber finds some pace before the second part of the race.
Anyway, I quite like this qualifying session, however I was somewhat shock by Webber's performance, maybe he got distracted by something or the set up wasn't the right one, apart from that, I was also shock by Vettels pole, it was somewhat surprising specially after the pace that LH show in the penultimate lap.
Predictions, maybe Vettel will win this one if he doesn't go too mental with the tyres, Button vs Hamilton will be interesting and I sincerely expect that Massa outqualifies Alonso, I just hope that Webber finds some pace before the second part of the race.
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People think Red Bull are favouring Vettel to the extent where they are explaining away all of Webber's problems as being a result of the team sabotaging his efforts. Even when it's plain that Webber has had no answer to Vettel all season.
Doesn't makes any sense to me, why they will want to sabotage their own drivers?, its ridiculous, specially with the constructors championship and so many other elements in consideration, Apart from that, both Vettel and Webber have suffered technical failures(Vettel has issues with the KERS system very often, just like Webber), Webber is just unlucky sometimes, that's all, team orders are "arguably" comprehensible, but favourite one driver doesn't mean that they need to sabotage the other one.
Well, at least that's what I think, of course.
dhandeh
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- dhandes
This.
Thank-you.đź‘Ť
I knew it was a joke, and because it was a massive troll face, that was obvious, the obvious thing to do was to say it was obvious. I think me and Alex.p got the joke!
In the right context, it can be amusing, not very often though. It's lost its originality now.
Indeed, Lewis and Jenson for a 1,3 with Vettel 2nd.
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It started in Istanbul last year, when Webber and Vettel collided. Everyone blamed Vettel, but Helmut Marko was quick to point the finger at Webber. To be fair, the HANS device prevents a driver from turning his head from side to side (it's to prevent neck injuries), but even if it did not, the high sides of the cockpit and the narrow range of the wing mirrors would have made it impossible for Webber to see Vettel anyway.
Then Red Bull switched the front wings on the cars at Silverstone when Vettel broke his. Their reasoning for it was understandable, given that Vettel had clearly been faster all weekend, but Webber ran to the media and started crying wolf. And ever since then, everyone is quick to believe that Red Bull are favouring Vettel and deliberately sabotaging Webber to prevent him from challenging their preferred driver. Some of the theories are really quite elaborate, like the team calling Webber in early at Abu Dhabi last year to force Alonso to respond (since Webber was Alonso's most immediate challenger for the title) and take Ferrari out of play so that Vettel could win the championship.
The truth of it is that Red Bull really screwed up in 2009 when they didn't favour one driver. By rights, Sebastian Vettel should have been the 2009 World Champion - but because Red Bull let their drivers race one another and, more importantly, take points away from one another, in the middle of the season when Brawn and Jenson Button were vulnerable (because of a bad upgrade and a delayed reaction to it; they initially wrote off their poor performances as being a result of cold-weather racing in a car that performed best at hot races), Button was able to build up enough of a points lead that he did not have to push too hard at the end of the season (most people think Button simply gave up and cruised to the Championship, but in reality, Brawn ran out of money trying to fix their bad upgrade).
There are elements in the team that show favouritism. But there is no massive conspiracy - Webber has been noticeably slower than Vettel all year. He didn't start to come back at Vettel until Pirelli changed the make-up of the tyres to last a little longer (since they felt regular three- and four-stop races were taking things too far). Nevertheless, the conspiracy theorists in their tin foil hats believe that Red Bull have been subtly sabotaging Webber just enough to stop him from challenging Vettel, but not so much that he is exposed to McLaren and Ferrari.
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Your post is a good one apart from this. It was clearly a front wing failure. The thing just collapsed for no reason.
Seismica
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Are you guys serious with this conspiracy theory?
It's quite clear to me that what was a second and a half advantage last year has been shrunk to almost nothing. If anything, i'd suggest that Mclaren would have been on pole had it not been for Hamilton's final unclean lap. It's quite clear to me that RBR no longer have the dominance in qualifying and certainly not in the race. Why on earth would they sabotage one of their drivers when they know that Vettel is likely to outperform him in both Qualifying and the race and that Webber will take points away from Mclaren and ferrari who can quite easily close the gap if Red Bull aren't careful.
That argument would only hold weight if RBR have been favouring Vettel all year, but again, why impose a handicap on yourself at the beginning of the season when you don't know you are going to be the pacesetter and also that the constructor's championship is worth a lot of money and it's too much to risk?
There can be logistical and production problems i.e. only being able to get one component to a race weekend, and in this situation obviously Vettel will be given priority as the reigning World Champion and the WDC leader. All teams do this, why do people have such a problem with the leading team doing it? They're not purposefully sabotaging Webber, they're giving both cars every performance advantage they can get and if it so happens that only one car can get the upgrade, they are doing the right thing.
It's quite clear to me that what was a second and a half advantage last year has been shrunk to almost nothing. If anything, i'd suggest that Mclaren would have been on pole had it not been for Hamilton's final unclean lap. It's quite clear to me that RBR no longer have the dominance in qualifying and certainly not in the race. Why on earth would they sabotage one of their drivers when they know that Vettel is likely to outperform him in both Qualifying and the race and that Webber will take points away from Mclaren and ferrari who can quite easily close the gap if Red Bull aren't careful.
That argument would only hold weight if RBR have been favouring Vettel all year, but again, why impose a handicap on yourself at the beginning of the season when you don't know you are going to be the pacesetter and also that the constructor's championship is worth a lot of money and it's too much to risk?
There can be logistical and production problems i.e. only being able to get one component to a race weekend, and in this situation obviously Vettel will be given priority as the reigning World Champion and the WDC leader. All teams do this, why do people have such a problem with the leading team doing it? They're not purposefully sabotaging Webber, they're giving both cars every performance advantage they can get and if it so happens that only one car can get the upgrade, they are doing the right thing.
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As of right now:
Seems to be on and off, mostly light from what I'm reading on twitter.
Seems to be on and off, mostly light from what I'm reading on twitter.
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Thanks. I've never been on twitter 
I wonder what low track temps will do to tyre degradation. And who it might suit.
I wonder what low track temps will do to tyre degradation. And who it might suit.
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Very surprised Massa out qualified Alonso; good on him, hope he can maintain the position into T1.
On a side note, I'm SO glad F1 coverage is back on SPEED.
On a side note, I'm SO glad F1 coverage is back on SPEED.
