Forza 4 vs GT5 physics (read the first post before contributing)

[Scaff]

I just want to clarify something here, as some members believe that by adding 'in my opinion' to anything its OK.

You can't caveat everything with 'in my opinion', for example.

"I like Ice-cream" is an opinion. "Ice-cream only comes in vanilla" is not, its a statement of fact and can be dis-proven by showing Choc-chip to exist.

In the same way "All cars feel the same" is an opinion and as such I can disagree with it, but I can't disprove it, as feel is specific to each person. However "All cars handle the same" is a statement of fact, it can be dis-proved by showing differing handling traits in cars (as has been done) to exist.


Scaff

 

[evilserpentman]

Then please support your opinions with some examples that we can all test.
Scaff

The amount of time you put into this is admirable, really.
But, unlike you, I don't have access to sufficient recording facilities to back what I say, unfortunately, my word is all I have.

And that won't do, I'm aware of this.

 

[Scaff]

The amount of time you put into this is admirable, really.
But, unlike you, I don't have access to sufficient recording facilities to back what I say, unfortunately, my word is all I have.

And that won't do, I'm aware of this.

Why do you need recording facilities to propose a test that we can all then try and discuss?

In addition, I'm not using any recording facilities of any special nature, simply the movie maker built into FM4 and youtube, not exactly complex and available to anyone with a copy of FM4.

Obviously we don't have that in GT5, so I've just used my phone to record footage before, or do you not have a phone with video capacity or a camera with video capacity?

Its not that your word is not good enough, its that your claims are easily dis-proven.


Scaff

 

[PzR Slim]

The amount of time you put into this is admirable, really.
But, unlike you, I don't have access to sufficient recording facilities to back what I say, unfortunately, my word is all I have.

And that won't do, I'm aware of this.

The amount Scaff or I put into this is only needed because of the throw away comments people like yourself make which are patently not true. And we are honest enough and thorough enough to back up the claims we make. I only usually enter these debates as a result of some of the tosh that is spouted. I think it's almost criminal some of the stuff I see written here. It could well put off people from trying the other game and I think that would be a real shame for someone to miss out on an excellent experience on the back of some throwaway untrue comment.

 

[evilserpentman]

Why do you need recording facilities to propose a test that we can all then try and discuss?

In addition, I'm not using any recording facilities of any special nature, simply the movie maker built into FM4 and youtube, not exactly complex and available to anyone with a copy of FM4.

Obviously we don't have that in GT5, so I've just used my phone to record footage before, or do you not have a phone with video capacity or a camera with video capacity?

Its not that your word is not good enough, its that your claims are easily dis-proven.


Scaff

You're on a roll, you've been wanting results and tests not only from this thread but the equivilent on ForzaPlanet, PzR too actually...

This silly arguement that's been going on is why comparison threads should just die, but anyway, I digress...I'm guilty for posting in it.

I'd like to show the users what it looks like, and how my experience looks on video.
If I just explained it, they'd be too many inconsistencies and we'd be back here having the same arguement, probably saying the test was ridiculous or inadequate.

And no, I do not have a mobile that is capable of that at this time.

So, you'll have to deal with my words being unproven, and no logical test provided.

I find you both a bit arrogant and patronising to be honest.
But anyway, this arguement is yours, I shall leave.

 

[Scaff]

You're on a roll, you've been wanting results and tests not only from this thread but the equivilent on ForzaPlanet, PzR too actually...

This silly arguement that's been going on is why comparison threads should just die, but anyway, I digress...I'm guilty for posting in it.

I'd like to show the users what it looks like, and how my experience looks on video.
If I just explained it, they'd be too many inconsistencies and we'd be back here having the same arguement, probably saying the test was ridiculous or inadequate.

And no, I do not have a mobile that is capable of that at this time.

So, you'll have to deal with my words being unproven, and no logical test provided.

I find you both a bit arrogant and patronising to be honest.
But anyway, this arguement is yours, I shall leave.

Its not an argument its a discussion, one that you seem to want to simply post a throw away comment in and have no one question it, and when you are asked to back up a statement or shown something that disproves it you throw your toys around.

To be described as arrogant for simply asking you to back up quite wild claims you have made it just a little bit ridiculous.

Scaff

 

[Spagetti69]

Another one bites the dust.

 

[PzR Slim]

You're on a roll, you've been wanting results and tests not only from this thread but the equivilent on ForzaPlanet, PzR too actually...

This silly arguement that's been going on is why comparison threads should just die, but anyway, I digress...I'm guilty for posting in it.

I'd like to show the users what it looks like, and how my experience looks on video.
If I just explained it, they'd be too many inconsistencies and we'd be back here having the same arguement, probably saying the test was ridiculous or inadequate.

And no, I do not have a mobile that is capable of that at this time.

So, you'll have to deal with my words being unproven, and no logical test provided.

I find you both a bit arrogant and patronising to be honest.
But anyway, this arguement is yours, I shall leave.

And still you add nothing meaningful to the discussion. You entered the discussion and were quite happy to post whilst you thought you were on solid ground, don't now turn around and pour scorn on it because you have nothing of any substance to say. And as night follows day, once someone has run out of things to say they start attacking the people on the other side of the debate. Arrogant and patronising you say, no just having a solid position to debate from and evidence to both refute your claims and back up our own.

Another one bites the dust.

It is quite astonishing that not one single person who has been asked to provide evidence to back up their claims over the past couple of months has been able to do so.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I voted equal because both game have pro and cons for me.

I like how forza4 feels when you play, the braking seems a bit better than on GT5, probably due to tyre physics. Also on pad if you turn assist down, F4M is much less forgiving than GT5. In gt5 to spin out I really need to put tyre on grass or beeing push, in FM4 if I enter wrong in a turn and correct at the wrong time, I'm out, no place for error. GT5 is much much much more forgiving honestly. Now if you play fm4 wiht normal mode for handling it turns out pretty close to GT5, not much difference actually. This is all on pad.

 

[Tornado]

I find you both a bit arrogant and patronising to be honest.
But anyway, this arguement is yours, I shall leave.

Arrogant and patronizing is making easily refutable statements of fact and then acting like you are the only sane man when someone points out (with evidence) how refutable they are.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Forza to me has offered nothing new in its 4 games and that might be why i gave up on it so easily,as i stated earlier,i had made level 150 and owned every car in the game,the problem was(for me-my opinion)every car felt the same.I never once said forza is inferior,i feel it has offered an advanced tyre model on a basic physics package.

Quick point, aside from being wrong on your last sentance here, you are also wrong on the first. I know the physics have already been talked about, but the much improved physics is a huge "new" thing in FM4. Also rivals, 16 car (double from fm3) multiplayer, custom public lobbies, car clubs, new tracks, new times of day, new livery designs, is quite a bit "new". And thats from FM3 to 4. So what would consitute something new for you?

Oh don't worry, I think that's his way of saying he disagrees...

Now Scaff has put up a lot of good points, but, I still maintain that it's too inconsistent across the board, in my opinion.

Without adding....anything to prove your point, and just getting mad in a conversation that isnt hostile to anyone else but you doesnt help your argument.

It is quite astonishing that not one single person who has been asked to provide evidence to back up their claims over the past couple of months has been able to do so.

I agree. I have seen people go out of their way to disprove or prove physics in FM4 being good, but have not seen one person do the same in defense of a claim for GT5.

Now if you play fm4 wiht normal mode for handling it turns out pretty close to GT5, not much difference actually. This is all on pad.

Both titles with assists and whatnot on, can be played with a chase cam and controller by a 5 year old. Which is good. Thats how they have to sell these games. It still amazes me how they were able to incorporate both driving styles.

 

[amar212]

It is quite astonishing that not one single person who has been asked to provide evidence to back up their claims over the past couple of months has been able to do so.

You can't really blame him, nor majority of people who drags themselves into such discussions without proper idea of the backgrounds of claims of the people on the opposite side.

It is quite hard to make a *proof* out of anything related to the actual physics and such through videos and words on screen. Sensation of physics is very subjective and personal *idea* which really needs to be felt and experienced properly in order to comprehend the subject.

Through past years I was one of the greatest critics of the Forza physics. First Forza is still a joke in my book, no discussion there. However, Forza 2 was a generational leap compared to first game, especially in two areas: collision physics and sensation of non-ABS braking. However, at the time, Forza 2 didn't support any serious FF wheel and all superiority of the those two areas were overshadowed by 270 degree steering-limit and poor implementation of FF support for MS and LTFX wheels.

When Forza 3 arrived, with proper 900-degree support and new physics, it seemed great on paper. But they've introduced the infamous stability/linearity assist, while both collisions and non-ABS braking sensation were drastically toned-down compared to FM2 probably in order to make the game more accessible. Also, the suspension-modelling was pretty much non-existent from perspective of active geometry, it was dull, non-responsive and sensation of the overall handling was not exactly convincing.

But Forza 4 changed everything. After the first (and only) patch that effectively took care of infamous stability/linearity assists and with introduction of the fully-released Simulation physics-mode - where tire-thread, tire-grip and tire-threshold are absolutely the most important substances - physics of Forza 4 has reached a new levels, absolutely comparable with GT5.

Also, with the work done with Fanatec company and introduction of the two new wheels with special firmwares that can utilise the full scope of the new wheel-support engine (CSR and CSRE models), Forza 4 became a different game than any other FM games before.

On some other forums I was even called a troll because of my criticism regarding previous states of physics in the FM series. However, after the great experience I have with FM4 in last 3 moths I can safely say that there are only two types of persons that can criticise FM4's physics in any *console-simulation* related debate and insist it is still inferior to GT5's: either intentionally malevolent or totally misinformed.

Either of those can't be perceived as a serious collocutor in this particular discussion.

 

[sik180sx]

What different and please keep in mind this is a physics thread.

Please provide example of what cars feel the same and why they shouldn't, and then expand on that with how FM4 advanced tyre model and basic physics (in your opinion) causes the differences with reality.

You assigned two positions to me (that I believed lateral-g related to handling and that GT5 was bad) that I did not make. I have not done the same.

However you seem to want to simply be able to post up your opinion without counter, and to be honest that's unlikely to happen. So please answer the questions I have asked.

Yep this CR-Z EX is just massively tail happy here....

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf7sZj00t2I">YouTube Link</a>

...no, wait. That's understeer on the throttle out of a corner (as opposed to the oversteer on the throttle the Cobra displays).

I've said this once and I will say it again, I have no issue with anyone having a preference or an opinion on something, but do keep in mind that making totally ridiculous claims (such as no car will wheelspin out of a slow corner or all cars want to oversteer) without the ability to back them up is not a good idea.

Scaff

I dont really need or want to post evidence,as everything i have said is based on my opinion,which may or may not be wrong.
I'm not saying one is better than the other from a technical stand point,all i'm saying is which one i prefer and why,if people do not agree with me that is fine.
If i was stating facts i would not blame you for wanting evidence,but alas i am not.
If people want to play fm4,gt5 or whatever floats their boat,as long as they enjoy it,it really doesn't matter what you or i or anyone else thinks.

 

[Vaxxtx]

I dont really need or want to post evidence,as everything i have said is based on my opinion,which may or may not be wrong.
I'm not saying one is better than the other from a technical stand point,all i'm saying is which one i prefer and why,if people do not agree with me that is fine.
If i was stating facts i would not blame you for wanting evidence,but alas i am not.
If people want to play fm4,gt5 or whatever floats their boat,as long as they enjoy it,it really doesn't matter what you or i or anyone else thinks.

So what you are saying is, you entered a thread about FM4 vs GT5 physics, said a blanket statement about FM4 cars all feeling the same, but dont want to discuss/prove why, all to just say you prefer GT5 as a game. Makes sense...

 

[PzR Slim]

You can't really blame him, nor majority of people who drags themselves into such discussions without proper idea of the backgrounds of claims of the people on the opposite side.

It is quite hard to make a *proof* out of anything related to the actual physics and such through videos and words on screen. Sensation of physics is very subjective and personal *idea* which really needs to be felt and experienced properly in order to comprehend the subject.

Through past years I was one of the greatest critics of the Forza physics. First Forza is still a joke in my book, no discussion there. However, Forza 2 was a generational leap compared to first game, especially in two areas: collision physics and sensation of non-ABS braking. However, at the time, Forza 2 didn't support any serious FF wheel and all superiority of the those two areas were overshadowed by 270 degree steering-limit and poor implementation of FF support for MS and LTFX wheels.

When Forza 3 arrived, with proper 900-degree support and new physics, it seemed great on paper. But they've introduced the infamous stability/linearity assist, while both collisions and non-ABS braking sensation were drastically toned-down compared to FM2 probably in order to make the game more accessible. Also, the suspension-modelling was pretty much non-existent from perspective of active geometry, it was dull, non-responsive and sensation of the overall handling was not exactly convincing.

But Forza 4 changed everything. After the first (and only) patch that effectively took care of infamous stability/linearity assists and with introduction of the fully-released Simulation physics-mode - where tire-thread, tire-grip and tire-threshold are absolutely the most important substances - physics of Forza 4 has reached a new levels, absolutely comparable with GT5.

Also, with the work done with Fanatec company and introduction of the two new wheels with special firmwares that can utilise the full scope of the new wheel-support engine (CSR and CSRE models), Forza 4 became a different game than any other FM games before.

On some other forums I was even called a troll because of my criticism regarding previous states of physics in the FM series. However, after the great experience I have with FM4 in last 3 moths I can safely say that there are only two types of persons that can criticise FM4's physics in any *console-simulation* related debate and insist it is still inferior to GT5's: either intentionally malevolent or totally misinformed.

Either of those can't be perceived as a serious collocutor in this particular discussion.

Hey Amar good to speak to you again. And a great post. You didn't always have positive things to say about FM but at least you have always had well thought out provable reasons for thinking so. I always maintained when GT5 was released it was a little ahead of FM3 in terms of physics, not as much as I had expected or hoped, it even seemed to go backwards from Prologue in some ways. And then FM4 came along and once they got the sim steering sorted out it changed everything for me. I hope PD realise the importance of a really good tyre model for GT6.

And you are so right about the Fanatec wheels. Unfortunately I am waiting for a replacement Elite to be shipped to me as mine failed last wednesday. I wonder if playing FM4 with a CSR wheel would change some of these peoples minds. Even playing GT5 with my Elite was a huge step forward to even my Fanatec PWTS. FM4 with the Elite is just a different beast altogether. The feel you get for what the front tyres are doing is the biggest advantage FM4 has over GT5. I spent an hour last night lapping around the Ring in the dusk in the Fireblade and whilst it was such good fun, that car is so controllable, and looked great on three screens the front tyres really do feel numb through the wheel.

 

[sik180sx]

So what you are saying is, you entered a thread about FM4 vs GT5 physics, said a blanket statement about FM4 cars all feeling the same, but dont want to discuss/prove why, all to just say you prefer GT5 as a game. Makes sense...

Do you not see that it is just my opinion,not facts as to why i prefer gt5,i don't really care if i'm right or wrong.
I'm not really in any position to state my opinion as fact,as i have no degree in physics,and i really don't see what trying to prove my opinion to be right is really going to achieve.
I didn't come in here to get anyone to choose one or the other,maybe we should get the op edited to say"if you have an opinion that cant be proven as a fact,dont come in here"

 

[TokoTurismo]

I agree with sik180sx. My comment was too an a opinion aswell, not a fact. Why take it so serious. Like my dad told me from that night. "Everyone has their own opinions."

 

[cletus 669]

Like my dad told me from that night. "Everyone has their own opinions."

Off topic but that reminds me of what my dad used to say all the time. "opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one and they all stink."


Sorry for the interuption in the conversation, carry on.

 

[Scaff]

Do you not see that it is just my opinion,not facts as to why i prefer gt5,i don't really care if i'm right or wrong.
I'm not really in any position to state my opinion as fact,as i have no degree in physics,and i really don't see what trying to prove my opinion to be right is really going to achieve.
I didn't come in here to get anyone to choose one or the other,maybe we should get the op edited to say"if you have an opinion that cant be proven as a fact,dont come in here"

I agree with sik180sx. My comment was too an a opinion aswell, not a fact. Why take it so serious. Like my dad told me from that night. "Everyone has their own opinions."

That's not the issue, the problem seems to be that you've taken issue with people disagreeing with you and asking to further explain. You are of course entitled to an opinion, but we are also entitled to reply and disagree and discuss that opinion.


Scaff

 

[TokoTurismo]

lol, I got pushed to the curve with ease from reading your sentense Scaff. I do like explaining about things but I can't reach to the same level like how you guys explain in your sentences. I'll think twice next time.

 

[sik180sx]

That's not the issue, the problem seems to be that you've taken issue with people disagreeing with you and asking to further explain. You are of course entitled to an opinion, but we are also entitled to reply and disagree and discuss that opinion.

Scaff

I really dont have a problem with anyone disagreeing with me,i completely agree about replying,disagreeing,discussing my opinion,it is not for me to say you cant,it's when i get called a liar or i'm constantly steamrolled to give a reason for my opinion that erks me.
But anyway,here goes.They all(forza cars) just feel the same to me(again MY opinion)given all the same parameters,the fr cars feel the same,the ff cars feel the same,mr cars feel the same,all through my own testing(which is of course subjective)there is no car in forza that is hard to drive,which to me(opinion again) spells basic physics model with an awesome tyre model.

And another thing that gets me is,what tyres did turn 10 use?i know its pirelli,but which ones?they have multiple tyres in thier range,p6000,4seasons,pilot sport series,p-zero corsa,p-zero rossi and more that i cant recall right now(i have worked in the tyre industry for 7 years now)do they have one base tyre for each upgrade being,stock,street,sport,race?or have they modeled all or most of the tyres in the range?

 

[Vaxxtx]

I really dont have a problem with anyone disagreeing with me,i completely agree about replying,disagreeing,discussing my opinion,it is not for me to say you cant,it's when i get called a liar or i'm constantly steamrolled to give a reason for my opinion that erks me.
But anyway,here goes.They all(forza cars) just feel the same to me(again MY opinion)given all the same parameters,the fr cars feel the same,the ff cars feel the same,mr cars feel the same,all through my own testing(which is of course subjective)there is no car in forza that is hard to drive,which to me(opinion again) spells basic physics model with an awesome tyre model.

And another thing that gets me is,what tyres did turn 10 use?i know its pirelli,but which ones?they have multiple tyres in thier range,p6000,4seasons,pilot sport series,p-zero corsa,p-zero rossi and more that i cant recall right now(i have worked in the tyre industry for 7 years now)do they have one base tyre for each upgrade being,stock,street,sport,race?or have they modeled all or most of the tyres in the range?

If you cannot feel a difference between cars, especially rwd, fwd, and mrw, you are the oddity. Even somebody that doesnt like FM4 (or car games in general) can tell the difference between those.

So you cant tell oversteer from understeer? So a Civic drives the same as the Mustang when going through a corner?

There is a fine line between your "opinion" and a bold face lie.

I am curious, if every car is easy to drive, I assume you have some top 100 times on the leaderboards?

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I really dont have a problem with anyone disagreeing with me,i completely agree about replying,disagreeing,discussing my opinion,it is not for me to say you cant,it's when i get called a liar or i'm constantly steamrolled to give a reason for my opinion that erks me.
But anyway,here goes.They all(forza cars) just feel the same to me(again MY opinion)given all the same parameters,the fr cars feel the same,the ff cars feel the same,mr cars feel the same,all through my own testing(which is of course subjective)there is no car in forza that is hard to drive,which to me(opinion again) spells basic physics model with an awesome tyre model.

And another thing that gets me is,what tyres did turn 10 use?i know its pirelli,but which ones?they have multiple tyres in thier range,p6000,4seasons,pilot sport series,p-zero corsa,p-zero rossi and more that i cant recall right now(i have worked in the tyre industry for 7 years now)do they have one base tyre for each upgrade being,stock,street,sport,race?or have they modeled all or most of the tyres in the range?

Can I have your gamertag on Xbox live please ? I'm sure you're on top of most leaderboard since the car arent hard to drive and you can buy/get the setup of the best.

Very well writen Amar btw. I'm happy to see that even a gt5 hardcore fan like you can recognize the work that T10 have done.

Btw I like GT5 as well no worry. I just feel they are nearly the same physics wise now. YOu can even feel a bit better the braking in FM4.

 

[Scaff]

I really dont have a problem with anyone disagreeing with me,i completely agree about replying,disagreeing,discussing my opinion,it is not for me to say you cant,it's when i get called a liar or i'm constantly steamrolled to give a reason for my opinion that erks me.

I would personally never accuse anyone of lying on the forum without proof, and in that situation it would be an AUP violation and I certainly wouldn't deal with it in public.

However in regard to being steamrollered, I think your being a little melodramatic, you have simply been asked to provide some substance to your view. Something that we could all test for ourselves and then discuss.

To be honest I find it a little odd that your being so defensive on what should be a simple point given your strength of feeling on the subject.

But anyway,here goes.They all(forza cars) just feel the same to me(again MY opinion)given all the same parameters,the fr cars feel the same,the ff cars feel the same,mr cars feel the same,all through my own testing(which is of course subjective)there is no car in forza that is hard to drive,which to me(opinion again) spells basic physics model with an awesome tyre model.

So (to simply pick an example) a Pontiac Fiero, Pagani Huayra, Ferrari 458 and Bentley Speed 8 all feel the same to drive? They are all MR and to me all drive quite significantly different.

I would also disagree that no car is hard to drive, with a a caveat. Very few cars are difficult to drive under the limit in FM4, and that's pretty much as things should be. However on and over the limit a good number of them are very, very tricky. Based on my own track and proving ground experience that is pretty much how things should be.

I also don't agree that difficult to drive = realistic, I find S2U almost impossible to drive cleanly in any way, yet very few would claim its a solid sim.

And another thing that gets me is,what tyres did turn 10 use?i know its pirelli,but which ones?they have multiple tyres in thier range,p6000,4seasons,pilot sport series,p-zero corsa,p-zero rossi and more that i cant recall right now(i have worked in the tyre industry for 7 years now)do they have one base tyre for each upgrade being,stock,street,sport,race?or have they modeled all or most of the tyres in the range?

Simply put we do not know, and while I would love to know myself its quite unlikely we ever will. That doesn't however change the clear difference in tyre model between GT5 and FM4.


Scaff

 

[sik180sx]

I believe it was pzrslim that accused me pf lying

 

[Scaff]

I believe it was pzrslim that accused me pf lying

I know. I was explaining my stance on the point, now would you be so kind as to let me know if you feel that the Pontiac Fiero, Pagani Huayra, Ferrari 458 and Bentley Speed 8 all feel the same to drive in FM4?


Scaff

 

[maxpontiac]

Some of you seem highly educated when it comes to the automobile racing. Now while I respect that, none of you seem to profess the professional level of criteria that can be found within Polyphony Digital Incorporated. Please do not be offended by this, but this thread is full of amateur opinions. It is nothing more, nothing less.

Mr. Kaz after all, has done something that no one here as, and that is race the 'Ring in a professional race. With that in mind, when I drive Forza Motorsport 4, it feels different then Gran Turismo 5. Something gives, wouldn't you agree?

Based on my knowledge, a representative from Turn 10 has never experienced what it's like to drive in a real race, let alone several of them. Therefore, my opinion remains entrenched that PDI can provide a more realistic console simulation when it comes to the on track experience than Turn 10.

Now while I am sure some of you will retort in the manner that highlights all of GT5's deficiencies such as tire pressure and the like, but alas, it doesn't matter because in the end, this is just a forum, and we are talking about video games.

I generally avoid these types of forum discussions, but for some strange reason, I felt compelled to be bothered.

Good day.

 

[Scaff]

Some of you seem highly educated when it comes to the automobile racing. Now while I respect that, none of you seem to profess the professional level of criteria that can be found within Polyphony Digital Incorporated. Please do not be offended by this, but this thread is full of amateur opinions. It is nothing more, nothing less.

Mr. Kaz after all, has done something that no one here as, and that is race the 'Ring in a professional race. With that in mind, when I drive Forza Motorsport 4, it feels different then Gran Turismo 5. Something gives, wouldn't you agree?

So Forza can't compete because Kay is a Gentleman racer (and I use that term specifically), OK.

Based on my knowledge, a representative from Turn 10 has never experienced what it's like to drive in a real race, let alone several of them. Therefore, my opinion remains entrenched that PDI can provide a more realistic console simulation when it comes to the on track experience than Turn 10.

Meet Gunnar Jeannette, you may not have heard of him however he's been racing in the ALMS for ten years and has competed at LeMans seven times (oh and was the youngest ever finisher).

As well as being a professional racing driver (a term I use specifically) he's also a consultant for T10.

http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/WIR_7-8/
http://www.gunnarjeannette.com/about-2

Now while I am sure some of you will retort in the manner that highlights all of GT5's deficiencies such as tire pressure and the like, but alas, it doesn't matter because in the end, this is just a forum, and we are talking about video games.

Yes we will because a 'driver' as the face of a title doesn't mean its a sim, unless the Colin McRae series are now a sim.

I generally avoid these types of forum discussions, but for some strange reason, I felt compelled to be bothered.

Good day.

Thanks for dropping in.


Scaff

 

[PzR Slim]

I believe it was pzrslim that accused me pf lying

I apologise for calling you a liar. I did so because I could not believe that anyone would have so little an understanding of vehicle dynamics to believe that all cars in FM4 feel the same.

 

[sik180sx]

I apologise for calling you a liar. I did so because I could not believe that anyone would have so little an understanding of vehicle dynamics to believe that all cars in FM4 feel the same.

It's all good mate,and also i do have top 100 times on fm4, my gt is sik180tR and our club was team riot.To be honest i'm not sure where those times sit now,as it has been 4 weeks since i played cause my xbox is dead.
And i may not be a professional with vehicle dynamics, but i do understand them.and with the cars feeling the same,i said given the same parameters(all my opinion),that is weight,weight distribution,power,tyres,tread width and upgrades,all ff feel the same as each other,fr the same as each other,mr the same as each other and so on.

@scaff
I may be the oddity,but how does it affect you?As i have said many times it's my opinion,and i stand by it wrong or right.I prefer gt5 physics over fm4(i never use assists in any game,not even abs in gt5)