Forza 4 vs GT5 physics (read the first post before contributing)
- Thread starter Nicholas9889
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- GTP_Famine
*will regret posting in this thread*
In GT5 there are tyre load indicators (you can access them through the in-race pause menu). They are terrific - very useful tool for those who want to preserve tyres while racing, or determine how ballast affects things - if a little intrusive. If GT5 has any semblence of this being replicated, the tyre load indicators will show it - there's an outer and an inner ring that denote maximum tyre loading and unloaded, the indicator expands and contracts as the tyres load up or unload. If the game simulates high speed lift, they should contract at speed.
In GT5 there are tyre load indicators (you can access them through the in-race pause menu). They are terrific - very useful tool for those who want to preserve tyres while racing, or determine how ballast affects things - if a little intrusive. If GT5 has any semblence of this being replicated, the tyre load indicators will show it - there's an outer and an inner ring that denote maximum tyre loading and unloaded, the indicator expands and contracts as the tyres load up or unload. If the game simulates high speed lift, they should contract at speed.
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
thelvynau
Well if you fall off a bike you get back on.
We all live with real physics in our lives day to day. The opposite should be true really.
I can't jump over a house but Mario can. I don't struggle with him. ( except for super secret levels).
No one is born with a steering wheel or the ability to drive without first learning by our mistakes.
A game with accurate physics would just have to be learnt. After all we learn inaccurate physics models via games, why not be able to learn accurate ones?
Lukeydopeyus
(Banned)
- 30
True, we all can learn to play driving games on console with true to life or accurate physics. The big question is are the game publisher and or developer willing to produce such game ? How many of PS3 and Xbox 360 owners are interested in such level of driving physics and willing to do so ?
Let us say that Turn 10 or PD have the physics model that accurate, almost to the level used by professional racing teams like Ferrari's F1 Simulator or Iracing at the very least, and this physic engine is adapted to Forza and GT. I am very curious as to whether Microsoft or Sony would give the green light to publish such games ... there are many consideration taken by software corporations, market demography, consumers budget, interests, age groups and other commercial reasons.
These reasons might also have a hand in shaping GT5 that we have right now, Kazunori Yamauchi is an avid car enthusiasts, he would have wanted to create a driving games with physics as accurate as in real life and to an extent that the PS3 can possibly calculate. Turn 10 goal probably was to beat GT5 physics, they have the base line product for comparison, and they improve upon it with different approach to physics model, employing tire model as the foundation if I'm not mistaken
From my point of view, GT5 an Forza 4 are great games, they have different physics engine with different approach in modelling and variables, thus different accuracy in certain aspects of the car physics. Which one is better ? That question should be answered individually.
If such games with true to life accurate physics to be sold on consoles, eg Forza and GT, my guess the sales of Forza and GT would not be as high as now, a lot of consumers in general would complain to the level of physics in the game, different age groups and level of interests in car racing sim would have different reactions, young age groups male/female below 18 years old would have the most difficulty playing the game, the standard hand controller would also be a big hindrance to properly control the car. Wheels with FFB and clutch would be a minimum to be able to fully give the player control to all aspects of driving physics.
Only a handful portion of PS3 and XBOX 360 market would buy such game, and I prefer gradual improvements in physics accuracy in console games as it will take time, months if not years for a small niche market based simulator games to become a mass appeal to mainstream consumers, much like PC racing simulator genre that we have right now.
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- thelvynau
- Thelvynau
Spagetti69
Good point but would the average gamer have the patience to learn a completely perfect physics system?
I for one would try to learn it just not sure about a large amount of gamers this could contribute to forza and gt5 holding off on making the physics too real.
Scaff
Moderator
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OK some results from the lift at speed experiments:
I had to use two different cars, as the MkII is in FM4 and the Mk IV in GT5, however if anything this would bias the test towards GT5 as the MkIV had significantly more lift at speed that the heavier Mk II.
Le Mans is also totally unsuitable as its just too bumpy to get any meaningful results out of. As a result I used Route X in GT5 and Sedona drag strip in FM4 (as they are both good and flat.
GT5
0mph
116mph
200mph
Despite repeated runs I could see no visible difference in the tyre load indicator for the fronts.
FM4
0mph
116mph
160mph
No difference between the 0 and 116 mph tyre load at all and a small reduction in load to the 160mph (which was the most I could haul out of it).
Given the above examples it indicates that GT5 doesn't model lift at speed for the MkIV and while FM4 does model it for the MkII it still falls short of what would be expected.
Scaff
I had to use two different cars, as the MkII is in FM4 and the Mk IV in GT5, however if anything this would bias the test towards GT5 as the MkIV had significantly more lift at speed that the heavier Mk II.
Le Mans is also totally unsuitable as its just too bumpy to get any meaningful results out of. As a result I used Route X in GT5 and Sedona drag strip in FM4 (as they are both good and flat.
GT5
0mph
116mph
200mph
Despite repeated runs I could see no visible difference in the tyre load indicator for the fronts.
FM4
0mph
116mph
160mph
No difference between the 0 and 116 mph tyre load at all and a small reduction in load to the 160mph (which was the most I could haul out of it).
Given the above examples it indicates that GT5 doesn't model lift at speed for the MkIV and while FM4 does model it for the MkII it still falls short of what would be expected.
Scaff
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- 28,314
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Name any two cars that both games have and I'll test them out.
Note, I'll only be able to record 30 secs of footage in FM4, and I can't record footage in GT5 at all, so, I'll have to upload my replay file and it'll go from there.
Note, I'll only be able to record 30 secs of footage in FM4, and I can't record footage in GT5 at all, so, I'll have to upload my replay file and it'll go from there.
- 5,897
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Evo X?
- 5,897
- Canada
I chose the X because it's the same model (GSR) in both games. While there is a VI in both GT5 and FM4, the one in GT5 is the TM edition.
That's what we want if we want as controlled a test as possible.
That's what we want if we want as controlled a test as possible.
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- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Evo X it is.
What am I testing for? Torque steer?
What am I testing for? Torque steer?
- 5,897
- Canada
👍There's no torque steer (AFAIK) in GT5.
Umm, we were talking about lift just earlier, so perhaps you can check to see if GT5 has any lift?
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- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Alright. I'm doing this in Arcade Mode/Free Run for both games as I want them 100% stock with little to absolutely no potential for tampering; Forza 4 does allow tuning whilst in Free Run but I'm not going to dabble with that.
There are no compound options in FM4 unless you actually own the car and purchase new compounds, so, the problem here is which would be best to use as the universal default for both? Or, better still, which compounds should I apply in GT5 to mirror (as closely as the game will allow) the default compounds in FM4?
There are no compound options in FM4 unless you actually own the car and purchase new compounds, so, the problem here is which would be best to use as the universal default for both? Or, better still, which compounds should I apply in GT5 to mirror (as closely as the game will allow) the default compounds in FM4?
Last edited:
- 28,314
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- I Renown I
And for GT5 those are Sports Hard, correct?
- 5,897
- Canada
Yep!
- 28,314
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- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Alright. First test conducted at TGTT.
While there is lift-off, it's only but a hint (in the Evo X, anyway), and the only time I actually spin is when I clip the grass, and before that I had to do a Scandinavian Flick, and I believe I spin right at the end as well—someone confirm the latter because I've forgotten already.
See for yourselves with the attached file. Next up, Forza 4.
While there is lift-off, it's only but a hint (in the Evo X, anyway), and the only time I actually spin is when I clip the grass, and before that I had to do a Scandinavian Flick, and I believe I spin right at the end as well—someone confirm the latter because I've forgotten already.
See for yourselves with the attached file. Next up, Forza 4.
- 5,897
- Canada
I'm on a Mac. 
Any chance you can put it onto YouTube?
Any chance you can put it onto YouTube?
- 28,314
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
I'm on a Mac.
Any chance you can put it onto YouTube?
No, but your platform has nothing to do with it. Download the folder, copy it to a USB stick, import it, and play it in GT5. I wish I could record it but I have no means of doing so.
Unless, and I'm referring to the former here, for some reason Mac doesn't support .RAR files or something.
- 5,897
- Canada
Did a quick Wiki, and it turns out to be just me.
Anyhow, I'll go check it out as soon as I can.
Anyhow, I'll go check it out as soon as I can.
- 28,314
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- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
Alright. The Forza test has also been conducted and the 30-second clip is being uploaded to FM.net now. You'll only get to see one spin from lift-off here and was basically resultant from me steering in the opposite direction in full lock.
For the most part, I'd give the nod to GT5 in this test. Whichever one of the two is more realistic isn't for me to decide as I've never driven an Evolution X.
Watch for the video shortly. Oh, and for the record, both tests were done with automatic tranny, and used the TGTT.
For the most part, I'd give the nod to GT5 in this test. Whichever one of the two is more realistic isn't for me to decide as I've never driven an Evolution X.
Watch for the video shortly. Oh, and for the record, both tests were done with automatic tranny, and used the TGTT.
- 28,314
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- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
You seem to be testing something else. Scaff was talking about when a car reaches high speed the car physically lifts due to the aerodynamic effects which in turn makes the steering go very light.
To test it you need a car with a high top speed (150+mph) and a long, flat straight.
To test it you need a car with a high top speed (150+mph) and a long, flat straight.
- 27,387
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- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Following Scaff's route, I've been doing some runs with the Alfa 8C, as it's of questionable aerodynamic properties, suitably fast, and nigh-on identical between both games. I'll get top the GT5 version later today, but I hope cell phone pictures are acceptable.
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- machate-man
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