Forza 4 vs GT5 physics (read the first post before contributing)

[thelvynau]

That is there to prevent cheating you know...
It's much better than GT5's harrassing penalties.

I still think its been implemented poorly way too harsh I have been slowed down with only a little bit of my car off.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I believe he is referring to the parts of the track where it almost stops you completely, which is no where close to being realistic.


Parker

Well since people online obviously wouldn't give up an illegal pass on the track, T10 fixed it with a sort of dramatic off track slow down. Now if people had say "honor" or an understanding of real racing such setups wouldn't be needed.

If you're going to create unrealistic parts to a game, at least do it in such a way that helps the overall game not detract.

 

[vsaber]

I wonder why most people are comparing using race med / race soft slick tires to real world condition in which more than 99.5% of the people here have never even close to be driver in a car on slicks, let alone drive one.
I find the cars handle fine and realistic enough on normal tires on both games.
However in Forza, like I mentioned in the other thread it feels slippery / glassy, doesn't feel like you're driving a car, arcade-ish, although the physics is definitely not arcade-ish. But I'm sure they'll be improved in the future.
Maybe Forza has to start their own Forza academy so that they can prove their competitiveness in real life to GT.
But until then, no other driving game on console give the same feel and feedback as the GT series.

 

[Scaff]

I wonder why most people are comparing using race med / race soft slick tires to real world condition in which more than 99.5% of the people here have never even close to be driver in a car on slicks, let alone drive one.

Most people are not doing anything of the sort, and some of us have driven cars on slicks.

I find the cars handle fine and realistic enough on normal tires on both games.
However in Forza, like I mentioned in the other thread it feels slippery / glassy, doesn't feel like you're driving a car, arcade-ish, although the physics is definitely not arcade-ish. But I'm sure they'll be improved in the future.

Can't agree at all, tyres in GT5 are the ones to me that feel 'glassy', with its very basic tyre model GT5's tyres have close to zero progression. That's not how a real car feels.

Maybe Forza has to start their own Forza academy so that they can prove their competitiveness in real life to GT.
But until then, no other driving game on console give the same feel and feedback as the GT series.

What on earth does the academy have to do with the physics in GT5 and FM4?

PD and Sony use the academy as a marketing tool to promote and drive sales of the GT series, please don't confuse it with anything more significant than that.

As far as value to physics accuracy goes T10's relationship with Pirelli is of far more importance and value than the academy.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Always great to see people make GTA some big huge flood gate for masses to become race drivers, yet reality shows that the chance of being a race driver is still quite tough through regular means as it is in GTA onward.

 

[Scaff]

I believe he is referring to the parts of the track where it almost stops you completely, which is no where close to being realistic.


Parker

The sticky grass in FM4 is not meant to be realistic, its a way of stopping people cutting corners, however at times its not well implemented.

However I would rather have something in place that this:

Which is classed as clean by the GTA 2012 and actually gives you a slight speed boost over driving on the track.

 

[Exorcet]

I suppose that sticky grass is helpful for time trials, but I absolutely hate it. At least provide the option to let us turn it off in single player or our own online rooms. I'm fine with someone cheating to pass me, that just means they didn't pass me. The fact that the game says they got first doesn't bother me at all. I'd much rather realistic off track behavior, that includes being stuck in sandpits with no form of escape except tow truck.

 

[JDMKING13]

I suppose that sticky grass is helpful for time trials, but I absolutely hate it. At least provide the option to let us turn it off in single player or our own online rooms. I'm fine with someone cheating to pass me, that just means they didn't pass me. The fact that the game says they got first doesn't bother me at all. I'd much rather realistic off track behavior, that includes being stuck in sandpits with no form of escape except tow truck.

Exactly 👍 I cannot believe people are actually defending this I hate it so much so damn fake.

 

[thelvynau]

Exactly 👍 I cannot believe people are actually defending this I hate it so much so damn fake.

When stuck with complaints about cheaters they decide to implement it.

Im by no means defending it but it does serve a specific purpose its not something they try to get realistic its something they use to reduce the cheats.

 

[Spagetti69]

I suppose that sticky grass is helpful for time trials, but I absolutely hate it. At least provide the option to let us turn it off in single player or our own online rooms. I'm fine with someone cheating to pass me, that just means they didn't pass me. The fact that the game says they got first doesn't bother me at all. I'd much rather realistic off track behavior, that includes being stuck in sandpits with no form of escape except tow truck.

I personally wouldn't like to Finnish 16th every online lobby I joined. Its the better of the two evils. I wouldn't even bother to race online and would just give up on the whole genre. What's the point.

When every lobby has a Marshall, then allow cuts.

 

[JDMKING13]

When stuck with complaints about cheaters they decide to implement it.

Im by no means defending it but it does serve a specific purpose its not something they try to get realistic its something they use to reduce the cheats.

Don"t we know when somebody cheats in FM it has a symbol next to their lap time. That's all I need but when I'm racing against my buddies and they loose control and get saved by the magical force the realism is gone for me. I was racing (GT5) against 9 other people on the ring at night when I saw a car loose control and slide from the grass all the way back to the track and caused a huge accident. I could see it unfolding before my eyes it looked so real. In FM you get saved by the magical force which in my opinion water downs the sim experience. FM is pretty good with option just give us an option to turn it off please T10.

 

[thelvynau]

Don"t we know when somebody cheats in FM it has a symbol next to their lap time. That's all I need but when I'm racing against my buddies and they loose control and get saved by the magical force the realism is gone for me. I was racing (GT5) against 9 other people on the ring at night when I saw a car loose control and slide from the grass all the way back to the track and caused a huge accident. I could see it unfolding before my eyes it looked so real. In FM you get saved by the magical force which in my opinion water downs the sim experience.

I agree its not realism but its a tool they use in reducing cheating simple.

I might go have a look around google see if turn 10 made the claim it aids realism.

 

[cuco33]

Don"t we know when somebody cheats in FM it has a symbol next to their lap time. That's all I need but when I'm racing against my buddies and they loose control and get saved by the magical force the realism is gone for me. I was racing (GT5) against 9 other people on the ring at night when I saw a car loose control and slide from the grass all the way back to the track and caused a huge accident. I could see it unfolding before my eyes it looked so real. In FM you get saved by the magical force which in my opinion water downs the sim experience. FM is pretty good with option just give us an option to turn it off please T10.

That's no different than bashing a wall or other cars and bouncing off unscathed like you normally see in GT5. Sure there's online and you can set damage on at full but it's not done the best and I shouldn't be locked into online (or time trial) modes just to get a more realistic experience. I'm not defending the sticky grass but I'd rather have it as an anti-cheat means than not have it at all since both games don't exhibit realistic behavior in runoffs. These are games and I'm a firm believer that the more realistic you make a racing game, the less people will want to play it. And the sticky grass isn't throughout the track, it's only on certain corners of the track where cheating is very obvious online. What it's done is taught me to really make sure I take my line properly, like one of the tight chicanes on Sedona, otherwise I'll slow to a death crawl and be knocked out of the race. In real life I'd be penalized with a flag or lose control. What I'd rather see better in FM series (and GT) is level of grip after you run off. If I have sticky tires that are nice and warm from racing, and I go into the dirt, I shouldn't expect instant grip like I never went offroading. Let the sand/dirt run off the tires a few secs after giving you less grip before having max grip again. THAT would be great and better than sticky grass. I mean T10 could add more time to less grip replacing the sticky grass as another idea.

 

[JDMKING13]

I personally wouldn't like to Finnish 16th every online lobby I joined. Its the better of the two evils. I wouldn't even bother to race online and would just give up on the whole genre. What's the point.

When every lobby has a Marshall, then allow cuts.

Some people are different though while you want to finish above 16th every race, some people want the realistic experience even if it means they loose. Just as you use normal mode while online because you want to be competitive I use SIM mode because I want the realist experience I don't care about what I place. I want it to feel as real as possible. Also I don't join any ol lobby like you insist, because I specifically want to race with people who share my views so I don't have to worry about people cheating.

 

[thelvynau]

That's no different than bashing a wall or other cars and bouncing off unscathed. I'm not defending the sticky grass but I'd rather have it as an anti-cheat means than not have it at all since both games don't exhibit realistic behavior in runoffs. These are games and I'm a firm believer that the more realistic you make a racing game, the less people will want to play it. And the sticky grass isn't throughout the track, it's only on certain corners of the track where cheating is very obvious online. What it's done is taught me to really make sure I take my line properly, like one of the tight chicanes on Sedona, otherwise I'll slow to a death crawl and be knocked out of the race. In real life I'd be penalized with a flag or lose control. What I'd rather see better in FM series (and GT) is level of grip after you run off. If I have sticky tires that are nice and warm from racing, and I go into the dirt, I shouldn't expect instant grip like I never went offroading. Let the sand/dirt run off the tires a few secs after giving you less grip before having max grip again. THAT would be great and better than sticky grass. I mean T10 could add more time to less grip replacing the sticky grass as another idea.

True having sticky grass is better than having nothing to keep the cheaters in line.

 

[JDMKING13]

(and GT) is level of grip after you run off. If I have sticky tires that are nice and warm from racing, and I go into the dirt, I shouldn't expect instant grip like I never went offroading. Let the sand/dirt run off the tires a few secs after giving you less grip before having max grip again. THAT would be great and better than sticky grass. I mean T10 could add more time to less grip replacing the sticky grass as another idea.

This happens in GT5 and why I lost a race yesterday against my buddies. If people want to bash each other car that's cool with me but it will not be allowed in my room because Full damage is always on. I race with my family and friends and the magical force is a killer for me. Again why can't we have an option to turn it off. Everybody doesn't race to cheat.

Edit: Do you play GT5 this is well known when you go off track it takes some seconds before you get your normal grip back.

 

[cuco33]

This happens in GT5 and why I lost a race yesterday against my buddies. If people want to bash each other car that's cool with me but it will not be allowed in my room because Full damage is always on. I race with my family and friends and the sticky grass is a killer for me. Again why can't we have an option to turn it off. Everybody doesn't race to cheat.

Personally I don't think GT does the best job at it. At least not as much as I've experienced in other racing games. I've set the realistic end of track feature on (whatever it's called, my mind's drawing a blank) and the most it does is it spins me out unrealistically. Any loss of grip for actually running off the track is very dumbed down from my experience. I'd actually want more reduction in grip because I'd expect more reduction in grip in real life. Note I don't really have much real world experience, just a big motorsports fan and you notice sand/dirt on hot racing slicks if the driver runs off the course, and it takes some time for the tire to be clean and full grip again.

I think the sticky grass complaints in FM4 is overblown (like majority of issues in Forza) since it's not the entire track. If it's such a big problem, then folks need to race properly on the track because only a few corners really have this. There's 1 tight chicane on Sedona that I know of. There's 2 parts to the same chicane on Road Atlanta. There's more on other tracks but that's the thing, only few corners/chicanes have this sticky grass. I think there's a bigger problem with invalidated lap times on some tracks when you actually take a clean line on the track itself. I recall Sebring having one of them, unsure if that was fixed though through patch.

 

[Spagetti69]

Some people are different though while you want to finish above 16th every race, some people want the realistic experience even if it means they loose. Just as you use normal mode while online because you want to be competitive I use SIM mode because I want the realist experience I don't care about what I place. I want it to feel as real as possible.

I dont mind finishing 16th if everyone plays by the same rules. There's a bit of a difference from the context you've taken that from.

Also if your quoting me from another forum with regards to my Sim/normal preference please use my full explanation too.
I stated that normal mode is the same as simulation mode pre patch. (without the centre wheel 270* thing though).

Simulation mode is borked with front engine rear wheel drive cars. The self aligned steering is opposite to real life. The wheel should straighten up automatically towards the direction of the slide. It actually apply FF to increase the turning in of the slide. A bit awkward to explain.

Plenty of members in my crew agree and most run with Fanatecs too.
So my decision to run normal was on a realistic level also.

One other thing, if Forzas invisible hand annoys you. How do you feel about GT's invisible stabilisers?

 

[JDMKING13]

Personally I don't think GT does the best job at it. At least not as much as I've experienced in other racing games. I've set the realistic end of track feature on (whatever it's called, my mind's drawing a blank) and the most it does is it spins me out unrealistically. Any loss of grip for actually running off the track is very dumbed down from my experience.

I think the sticky grass complaints in FM4 is overblown (like majority of issues in Forza) since it's not the entire track. If it's such a big problem, then folks need to race properly on the track because only a few corners really have this. There's 1 tight chicane on Sedona that I know of. There's 2 parts to the same chicane on Road Atlanta. There's more on other tracks but that's the thing, only few corners/chicanes have this sticky grass. I think there's a bigger problem with invalidated lap times on some tracks when you actually take a clean line on the track itself. I recall Sebring having one of them, unsure if that was fixed though through patch.

Listen I'm cool with this feature because their are people who join cold lobbies and some people don't care they just want to WIN. This is why we have no collision no damage etc. We have option to make the game fit the players and situation. All I want is a option to turn this off because my friends and family don't cheat we are trying to get a realistic race experience and the Magical force kills it for me.

I dont mind finishing 16th if everyone plays by the same rules. There's a bit of a difference from the context you've taken that from.

Also if your quoting me from another forum with regards to my Sim/normal preference please use my full explanation too.
I stated that normal mode is the same as simulation mode pre patch. (without the centre wheel 270* thing though).

Simulation mode is borked with front engine rear wheel drive cars. The self aligned steering is opposite to real life. The wheel should straighten up automatically towards the direction of the slide. It actually apply FF to increase the turning in of the slide. A bit awkward to explain.

Plenty of members in my crew agree and most run with Fanatecs too.
So my decision to run normal was on a realistic level also.

One other thing, if Forzas invisible hand annoys you. How do you feel about GT's invisible stabilisers?

Listen what ever floats your boat I never use normal period If I loose I loose If I Win I Win. I will not let a room dictate my gaming style and this is why I race with family and friends. Just as in GT5 people run ABS1 I run it OFF everytime. I might be a tad bit slower in the braking department but at least I feel the real deal. With your other question I have no clue what your talking about.

 

[Spagetti69]

I think the sticky grass complaints in FM4 is overblown (like majority of issues in Forza)/QUOTE]

HA ha, I just had a flashback to the rewind comments I used to read.

"I'm not playing a game with rewind in it".

"It's optional though mate, you don't have to use it".

"errgh no disgusting rewind feature for kids".

*Runs off and buys GT with boost*

Both sets of followers are guilty of this though.
It's just bias. It's better to have discussions with atleast people who have played or better own both.

Screwed up the quote sorry.

 

[Spagetti69]

With your other question I have no clue what your talking about.

ok. I'm not going to shatter your dream.

 

[JDMKING13]

I think the sticky grass complaints in FM4 is overblown (like majority of issues in Forza)/QUOTE]

HA ha, I just had a flashback to the rewind comments I used to read.

"I'm not playing a game with rewind in it".

"It's optional though mate, you don't have to use it".

"errgh no disgusting rewind feature for kids".

*Runs off and buys GT with boost*

Both sets of followers are guilty of this though.
It's just bias. It's better to have discussions with atleast people who have played or better own both.

👍 Some people are truly bias when it comes to these two games. Me I am glad I have both systems and want both games to succeed because it just means more good gaming for me! I agree with you though.

ok. I'm not going to shatter your dream.

Crush my dreams, are you serious dude? I have no clue what your talking about so I ask you what you mean and that's your response.. maybe your just blowing smoke..

 

[cuco33]

Listen I'm cool with this feature because their are people who join cold lobbies and some people don't care they just want to WIN. This is why we have no collision no damage etc. We have option to make the game fit the players and situation. All I want is a option to turn this off because my friends and family don't cheat we are trying to get a realistic race experience and the Magical force kills it for me.

No biggy for me but I just think it's an issue that is overblown. If it were on every track on every corner, I can see the complaint but seeing as it's not it's only on a few occasions, when you actually run off the road into a corner that they added sticky grass where you'll suffer from it. And you'd be cheating by cutting corners if sticky grass wasn't there, or if in a proper game or real life you'd get flagged for corner cutting (usually warned first). If you know a corner has the sticky grass, then more reason to avoid cutting that corner. It's one of the things I hated about Sedona's chicane that slows you to a crawl because I wasn't trying to cheat. I would just take the corner to fast and run off the road. But I learned to brake earlier and harder and now I never deal with it. What really sucks though is if you get bumped off the track by someone else and hit the sticky grass.
It's really a bandaid solution more than anything and one that I think works well. Like I said, I have a bigger problem with invalidated lap times for taking clean lines on the track, where some corner areas still invalidate your times.

 

[JDMKING13]

No biggy for me but I just think it's an issue that is overblown. If it were on every track on every corner, I can see the complaint but seeing as it's not it's only on a few occasions, when you actually run off the road into a corner that they added sticky grass where you'll suffer from it. And you'd be cheating by cutting corners if sticky grass wasn't there, or if in a proper game or real life you'd get flagged for corner cutting (usually warned first). If you know a corner has the sticky grass, then more reason to avoid cutting that corner. It's one of the things I hated about Sedona's chicane that slows you to a crawl because I wasn't trying to cheat. I would just take the corner to fast and run off the road. But I learned to brake earlier and harder and now I never deal with it. What really sucks though is if you get bumped off the track by someone else and hit the sticky grass.
It's really a bandaid solution more than anything and one that I think works well. Like I said, I have a bigger problem with invalidated lap times for taking clean lines on the track, where some corner areas still invalidate your times.

Totally agree with you man like I said when driving with clean people I want to turn it off. It has actually saved people in my league from damage/total charges because when they loose control and go off track it stop's them preventing them from bad damage.

 

[Spagetti69]

Blowing smoke eh king. I think not my realistic friend.

I'm sorry to inform you that it's impossible to roll a car online due to invisible stabilisers.
I know your quest for realism is your holy grail.
I would have prefered to keep you in the dark if you wasn't already aware. Alas you seek the truth.

So I ask you again. Seeing as invisible hands annoy you. How is your response to this my old chum.

 

[Spagetti69]

but when I'm racing against my buddies and they loose control and get saved by the magical force the realism is gone for me

Quick reminder.

 

[Exorcet]

I personally wouldn't like to Finnish 16th every online lobby I joined. Its the better of the two evils. I wouldn't even bother to race online and would just give up on the whole genre. What's the point.

When every lobby has a Marshall, then allow cuts.

In GT5, I always have penalties disabled, and it's rarely an issue. The cheaters just get kicked next race. Same thing would apply to Forza. And if it's an option, then it doesn't really matter. Anyone who wants to use it could.

These are games and I'm a firm believer that the more realistic you make a racing game, the less people will want to play it.

How did sims become popular in the first place then? GT and Forza are the biggest sellers, and they are near the top when it comes to consoles.

No biggy for me but I just think it's an issue that is overblown. If it were on every track on every corner, I can see the complaint but seeing as it's not it's only on a few occasions, when you actually run off the road into a corner that they added sticky grass where you'll suffer from it. And you'd be cheating by cutting corners if sticky grass wasn't there, or if in a proper game or real life you'd get flagged for corner cutting (usually warned first).

You wouldn't necessarily cheat. When I go off road in GT, I penalize myself. I slow down, give up positions, and cars on the track get the right of way. I don't need the game to keep me under control, because I can keep myself under control. Cutting the track isn't even a temptation. Just going off track is disappointing, and I'll give up first place if I feel that I was not driving well enough. I'm not the only one. GT5 online, open lobby, with random people I don't know, works absolutely fine with no restrictions at all. You just need to kick the occasional poor player, but that is not even a negative compared to having a rather annoying, but effective anti cheating system. At least in my opinion.

If you know a corner has the sticky grass, then more reason to avoid cutting that corner.

It doesn't matter if a corner has sticky grass or not, I want no part of the grass.

Of course there are accidents, and the pressure of a close race to deal with sometimes, and I know that I will sometimes go a little to wide on corner exit or something. I'd like something like a simulated marshall to call that, but I don't think the penalty system in GT or the sticky grass in Forza are good enough approximations of the marshall.

What really sucks though is if you get bumped off the track by someone else and hit the sticky grass.

Yes, or when you try to avoid a collision and the only path that won't take you into another car is the grass.

 

[JDMKING13]

Blowing smoke eh king. I think not my realistic friend.

I'm sorry to inform you that it's impossible to roll a car online due to invisible stabilisers.
I know your quest for realism is your holy grail.
I would have prefered to keep you in the dark if you wasn't already aware. Alas you seek the truth.

So I ask you again. Seeing as invisible hands annoy you. How is your response to this my old chum.

Roll cars online Spag I would love this a lot I have never rolled a car in both FM4 or GT5. Rolling cars are welcomed, but I really don't give a damn about it. It doesn't effect me as much as what happens when you go off road. I am sorry GT5 doesn't allow you to role your cars but to keep it real with you I don't care. We can do this back and forth crap all day like children "GT5 has this FM4 doesn't have this vice verse" Both games have pro's and cons just gotta take the best out of both situation. That's what I do.

 

[Spagetti69]

^ But what about when your racing with your buddies and there saved by an invisible force, isn't the realism gone for you.

PS friend request sent.

 

[Scaff]

Roll cars online Spag I would love this a lot I have never rolled a car in both FM4 or GT5. Rolling cars are welcomed, but I really don't give a damn about it. It doesn't effect me as much as what happens when you go off road. I am sorry GT5 doesn't allow you to role your cars but to keep it real with you I don't care. We can do this back and forth crap all day like children "GT5 has this FM4 doesn't have this vice verse" Both games have pro's and cons just gotta take the best out of both situation. That's what I do.

Reminds me of loosing a race on-line in FM4. Micra R replica I build (RWD 2.0 turbo) and I ran it before I hard sorted the suspension out, too stiff suspension + clipping a high curb = lost race.



Must have been quite a sight for the guys behind me.


Scaff