Forza 4 vs GT5 physics (read the first post before contributing)

[prymet1me]

^ I could have told you that GT will be your game last year.
Saved you some cash.

And do better by trading in FM4 or selling it, that is what I did with GT5. If you are a GT5 fan then love it but the GT5 section of this website is near cult status with some of the fans here. And the post above talking about look at Scaff's post is an example of the attitude of GT5 fans on this site.

 

[Tenacious D]

I wouldn't say that other section is any better. In some ways, it seems even more fannish.

It would work better if both sides would give each other and their games a more even handed approach in discussions, and be less defensive. I know I sometimes sound pretty harsh, but that's usually after a race in Forza in which the bots stepped on my last nerve, hard, or a race which frustrated me no end. These are the only bots I've ever sworn at, with the possible exception of those in Ferrari Challenge. And even though some of the physics in F4 baffle me, many aspects are simply amazing, and I really haven't found such realistic car dynamics in some ways other than in Live For Speed, which overall is tremendous.

Having said that though, with a game as different as Forza, some people won't like it. Just like some will always sneer at Gran Turismo. Some will have valid reasons, some will be biased, some will love a game much more, and that's life.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I have played both games quite a bit and while Forza 4 is better than Forza 3 I still have to give GT5 the nod.

Both games played with Fanatec Turbo S

If only GT5 would add a leaderboard system.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think what GT fans would love most is something similar to FM4's Rivals mode. It would hypothetically not require a whole lot more work than the current Seasonals do; add a few more (or keep some permanent, while having a smaller selection rotate out monthly, like FM4), and send users a quick message when their PSN friends have beat one of their times. It's incredibly addictive (and, in FM4, a great money-maker with the bounty incentives). I don't see leaderboards being incorporated into the whole game, so this would be a welcome alternative, at least in my eyes.

As for physics, I will admit it was a bit odd coming from GT5 to FM4, and it does require a bit different approach (much as I expect it would going the other direction). I however don't run GT5 with ASM and SRF on, the former because it makes most cars incredibly boring, and the latter because it's like flicking the "God Mode" option on, so maybe that's why it was only a minor adjustment when moving to FM4. I find Forza offers much more realistic levels of grip; GT5 definitely does on any of the Comfort tires, and even Sports Hards, Sports Mediums essentially being "Cup tires" as far as I'm concerned. Even on race cars, I preferred Sports Soft or Racing Hards, as the last two options just seemed entirely too grippy too me. Mind you, there are times where you just think "I'm in it for the lowest times", and the M3 GTR race car is a fun point-and-shoot on RS tires on the 'Ring, but you acknowledge it shouldn't be that grippy.

Forza doesn't suffer fools. You're heavy with the throttle, or abrupt with your steering inputs, and your car will get bent out of shape fast. Same as GT5 on Comfort tires. It's a bit more cerebral in FM4, since the g-force-influenced movements in the cockpit view are more exaggerated, but it's really quite enveloping once you get wedged in.

One thing I will say is very different, at least for me, between the two games; GT5 is incredibly easy to drift. I can choose to wag the tail at nearly every turn on the 'Ring without fear of spinning on most of my tuned cars (in fact, they're typically set up precisely for this option). FM4, I'm still coming to terms with on that front, and you have to be very precise with your countersteering and throttle application, or there will be a snap into the outer wall on your hands.I have to dedicate thought processes to how best to keep the car pointed the right direction in Forza; for GT, it's slide-and-forget.

 

[Tenacious D]

I meant to bounce off this yesterday but forgot.

It's what makes this simulator (gt5) so involving, the fact that the learning curve is so gradual. You have to put 100's of hours, 10's of 1000's of KM driving different vehicles of all different drivetrains and setups, to begin to get to grips (no pun intended) with it even fairly comprehensively, and then the fun really starts. Whether the physics are real or not is a fairly moot point. I think that it's more whether the physics are complex enough to challenge our senses for extended periods to keep coming back for more, that is the factor here to be considered. After all, is it essential that certain traits of the setting up of the vehicle and its handling are not wholly realistic, or more important that they are involving enough to engage us wholly?

I think the physics have parallels with reality and ARE complex enough to allow the illusion of actually interfacing with something real.

There are moments when I am driving this thing and thinking "yes!" this is so cool, so "real", when I am so connected with the vehicle. It's rare and mostly on Nurburg when it happens.

You have the joy to come in future of peeling back the layers in the sim to be able to handle increasingly powerful cars without the aids with aplomb. I'm addicted to the physics, myself, such as they are, and I think they're pretty realistic :-) - purely from the feeling of involvement I get from driving a good car fast round an awkward track like Nurburgring. I had the same sensation when I drove fast in my AMG Merc in the mountain roads local to me.

I thought about whittling this down a bit, but it's such a good read.

And I know that those who aren't fans of Gran Turismo shake their heads at stuff like this, but for me and many like me, it's very true. Sure, some things are still off, and Kaz should have the team fix the aero and suspension flaws, trim back drafting distance to something more realistic. But then, you have people having net riots over how some PC sim is utter crap too.

The basics of pushing a car hard around a track are very well represented in GT5. It's compelling, to an extent it's very visceral and evocative. It's very similar to the feel of my PC sims, so much so that I just haven't felt much like messing with them. Even though people will grouch about some aspect which is off and ruins the experience for them, I'm captivated by the organic, tangible experience of handling these cars with most or all of the aids off. When you get lost in the feeling of being connected with a machine built for brute performance, speed and handling, that's something special. The graphics do help. My sims do look rather nasty in comparison, and I don't like the strongly narrow focus on a handful of race cars that feel very much like loaners. It might be different if I bought the full Live For Speed license, and had a whole gob of Photoshopped liveries to slap on my fantasy rides or those in the GTRs, but I doubt it. Something about the sims feel very dry, less lively and fun.

In contrast, Forza 4 feels very alive, but something just isn't connecting between me and the car in the way it does with my other racers. Even the 3D perspective feels strange to me. I'll think I have so much time to begin braking to set up a turn, and half the time I'm wrong, I load up the tires, the car bogs, and leaves hundreds of feet of skidmarks. Even with ABS, the brakes are indefinite, and the tires won't speak to me, and even without the rowdy bots, doing turns is a chore. Throw the bots in, and it can be an ordeal. Spending hundreds of hours in GT5 opens the essence of the cars up over time like an origami flower. It seems that this is what it's going to take for me to be able to race competently in F4, because I'm missing something crucial. I must say though that for the first couple of days with it, I could swear I smelled burnt rubber!

I have a long vacation coming up, and I'll need that extra time to live with those cars and get to know them. I'm not sure there's any other way to break through that barrier separating me from my cars. This is another aspect which separates GT5 and Forza from other racers. You really do feel a sense of ownership with those rides. Now, if they would just speak to me as eloquently in Forza as they do in my other racers...

Ref your comment about driving aggressively, I know what you mean, but I also thing this will wear off after a few more hundred hrs under your belt, you'll begin to seek the finesse, the subtelty of controlling a 500 hp car like the Miura without the aids. Try it, with the Ferrari 512, its a bit similar, if you haven't got the Miura, turn off all the aids (apart from perhaps ABS1) put Racing Hards on or Sports Hards, and mod it to around 450-500hp and weight down to around 1300 and really work on throttle control. Dont worry about the laptimes or anything other than controlling your vehicle and pushing it to the limit, without losing it. I guarantee you'll have fun.

This is another thing I'm working up to. Turning ABS down to 1 is a good baby step towards driving aids-less. With all the aids on, the cars are managed so well by the system that all of their differences are smoothed over, and they almost feel numb. ABS1 will still give you all the aids on to some extent, but you can't be reckless with the car or it'll still bite you. Turn that off though, and stability is entirely up to you. For cars over 200hp or so - at least without Racing Hards, I still have to resort to turning on Stability and Anti-skid Management in order to attack turns hard, which you have to against Pro Level bots set to 10. The assists are still subtle enough that you have to work to keep the nose ahead of you while maneuvering and braking. At some point, I'll work at schooling myself with everything off and with ever more powerful and difficult cars. But right now, I dread the thought of throwing a RUF around the Nurburgring without some sort of backup.

As for Slipstreme's post above, that would be interesting. At least with the first two games, Forza was known as the one button drifter, for drifts using the hand controllers. This would be another big point in Forza's favor.

Anyhow, enough typing. I want to get in some racing on some weather tracks so I can finally do that Photo shooting I've been meaning to do for a year.

 

[CRXFREAK001]

Ok, this is an unbiased review on both, I'm going to be putting my fan-boy side of me aside here, as the PS3 has better hardware, but I'm going to write down a list of what I have seen playing both of these games.

First let me start out with saying I've always been a die-hard GT fan, I had GT1 when it was brand new, same with GT2, I remember how realistic I thought it was when 2 came out, and 3 and 4, and had 5 CE preordered for a long long time. I have always been a Playstation loyalist, it just shuts out any other console (personal opinion) but at least for graphical HD content. It has a better cpu, faster ram, and of course we cant forget the superiority of the size of blu-ray discs. Now with that aside.

-------
Forza 4 vs GT5

Better Shadows, Impressive Sounds (All cars have unique sounds, and sound different with every route you customize them, Cars with extremely unique exhaust notes like the low grunt of the WRX was nailed spot on). vs GT5 has many, many repeated sounds that use the same sound file.

Customizing (everything that GT has, plus tire temps, thermal dynamics, benchmarking, drive train swaps, engine swaps, more attention to fine detailing in springs and rebound, adjusting rim size tire size/width, lots more.

Full Livery, Auction House, Full Customization of body parts, many many wheel / body part manufacturers.

Now, On to physics..

I agree with the poster earlier on the oversteer/understeer physics for forza, you can feel the tires a lot more connected to the road in forza 4 than GT5. Some of the grip physics are better in GT5, and some are better in forza 4. Depends on what angle you're looking at the opinion from.

The physics themselves in both games are good, I say good because being on par with Iracing or Rfactor or any of the like on a console is a pretty far fetch, but as for console sim racing, they are both very good.

A prime example -

Drafting, even on the lowest setting on GT5, it still pulls you far, far beyond what it should ever do. Drafting in Forza 4 feel's realistic, you dont gain 10mph standing behind a car for 3 seconds, you barely gain anything at all. (I know that GT5 has boost settings, even on the lowest, it's still unrealistic), Also lets compare GT5's top speed on vehicles, there is no SL600 with 1030hp that would draft to 290+ mph, just wouldn't happen. I've been taking notes on small things in both games, example, Forza 4 the "rated" top speed on the factory vehicles match up, 186 mph was as fast as it could get on le sarthe on forza 4, which is it's "actual" documented top speed on the countach LP500s. Versus I can get into a stock car in GT5, factory specs like the honda CRX, and hit 140+ with it on SSR7, that just would never happen on factory specs.

GT5 to me just came out incomplete, even if they are patching it now (I'm glad they did) It was nice to finally see full gear ratios, adjusted physics.
Their first "vehicle" update had many cars that were already in the game just reskinned with different graphics, and a remapped sound file of the others, not trying to be negative, just unbiased, I'm a GT/PS3 fanboy, if I was being biased I'd be leaning towards everything PS3/GT related.

I don't understand the need for 50+ skylines, and Everything else with "multiples as standards that were imports from GT4" It's just, why have that, and then knock the sound quality, put in 3/4ths standard model cars, and other things.

One thing GT5 has going for it is better lighting, and some of the physic mechanics in GT5 are better, and the smoke detail and how it lingers with the wind is better, a lot of this happens to be because of overall disc space, just the install file alone for GT5 is almost as big as forza's play disc. day/night lighting transitions and weather and working wipers on each of the premiums took a lot of the data, and things like track heat waves.

Both games are good, Both games should appeal to all die-hard fans of the automotive industry, Forza has lots of things GT5 doesn't in the car list, if they died down about 20 of the skylines, 10 of the S2ks, and 15+ of the miata's they'd have room for stuff like the syclone, typhoon, Jeep SRT8, Older muscle, more unique auto manufacturers that are featured in Forza 4 like Joss, Morgan, Mosler, Gumpert, Saleen.

It's worth having both games if you are a huge automotive enthusiast, they both compete well in all catagories for car enthusiasts with a side of sim, The physics are good in both. I will always love the GT series, I plan on playing both and buying the DLC for both, I'm glad they both have decided on "DLC on a regular basis"

Both are great games guys, there's no "arcade like" feel to forza, just area's they need to improve on, as GT5 does in a a lot of area's as well, I hope that GT5 takes what premiums they have and gets ready for GT6, and starts over a new list of things to make for GT6 so they don't have looped sound files, jagged shadows, and that they make 100% of their cars premium with full mods instead of the same spoilers on 70% of them they've used since GT3-4, only a few of the premiums have unique body additions.

Last but not least, Forza 4's "Hire driver" drives much better than any of the Bspec drivers, but also on another note, GT5's AI is miles ahead of Forza 4.

That concludes my review of both games.

 

[Tenacious D]

if they died down about 20 of the skylines, 10 of the S2ks, and 15+ of the miata's they'd have room for stuff like the syclone, typhoon, Jeep SRT8, Older muscle, more unique auto manufacturers that are featured in Forza 4 like Joss, Morgan, Mosler, Gumpert, Saleen.

People constantly spin out on this point, if you will.

There are only four or five Premium Skylines in GT5, three or so Miatas and one or two - if that - S2000s. Those had to be modeled, obviously, and took up to six man-months each to make and code. The Standard cars don't take up any "room" in the game or on the disc which could have been used on some other Premium car. The team made what they could through those five years, while also working on GT PSP. Another factor is that Polyphony tests these cars, or their close relatives if they can't get hold of the actual vehicle and interpolate established data for them. On top of that, the team working on Forza is huge, due to contracting out work to studios in the Orient. Forza 3 had a total team size of more than 300, Forza 4, 400 or more. And there were only around 70 new cars for F3, 90 for F4, with two years or so of work. And some cars still don't work right with the livery editor, meh.

The upshot is that both games relied on old content from past games, and still only got so far with their car lists, because this premium content takes ages to make. An argument can be made against including the Standards in GT5, but I adamantly defend them, and love them, and no one is forcing anyone to drive them if you can't stand them.

If I had a magic wand, I'd mush both of these games into one that worked on both systems, so I could take advantage of MS's Storefront, and the PS3, PSN and Logitech DFGT. It would be interesting to see how the combined graphics would look, how the cars behaved. And how Forza's cars handled with a decent wheel for a change!

One more point: I HATE Foza 4's car sounds, and will never buy a muffler upgrade because they're already so annoyingly LOUD!

 

[iridegravity]

Forzas physics lack weight to the Car. You know the moment where your suspension is all compressed in an off camber Corner and the tires start to Chirp and you have your head cocked at an angle to match the screen angle and your gritting your teeth feathering the throttle as the tires spin just a little to adjust your line and slide it right up to the rumble strip. Or that moment on Comfort soft tires where the side wall of the tire mushes out under heavy load and the wheel goes dead in your hand and you know you over cooked it and you have to scrub all speed before trying to turn. If you play GT, you do. Forza doesn't do that. It's just point and go, brake turn in point and go. The details and the finer points of driving are lost on Forza.

 

[Tenacious D]

Now this is interesting, because I think the cars have a good sense of weight to them in Forza which is a bit better than in GT5. I know Exorcet balks at me talking like this, but perception seems to play a huge role in racing games, and I don't think it has anything to do with bias. And especially with GT5 and Forza 4, for whatever reasons. These two games in particular feed our senses in ways we either really like or don't, or have trouble relating to.

My long vacation has been put on hold for at least one more week, but when it starts, I'll set aside some time with F4 again and see if a bit of hotlapping with the racing line on will help.

 

[iridegravity]

Now this is interesting, because I think the cars have a good sense of weight to them in Forza which is a bit better than in GT5. I know Exorcet balks at me talking like this, but perception seems to play a huge role in racing games, and I don't think it has anything to do with bias. And especially with GT5 and Forza 4, for whatever reasons. These two games in particular feed our senses in ways we either really like or don't, or have trouble relating to.

My long vacation has been put on hold for at least one more week, but when it starts, I'll set aside some time with F4 again and see if a bit of hotlapping with the racing line on will help.

If the Cars had weight in 4ZA. You would probably hear a lot of people complaining about how hard they were to drive somewhere? I had read a lot of reviews on gamefly for GT5, (which has a score of 7.2btw), complaining about how they were constantly spinning out etc. "Too hard, punishes you for mistakes" "Couldn't hang, sent it back" etc. Thats what happens in real life if you push a car past its limits at high speeds the weight and momentum of it carry's you some place you have no control over. So after reading your post I decided to see if noobs and people who cant drive for real were having the same problem with 4za4. Nope. Because it plays like an arcade racer should. And the AI races you as if it's not real as well.

 

[CRXFREAK001]

Oh also, when you have to be careful on the throttle in forza 4 vs GT5, example, I run with a lot of the higher end tunnel and 1/4 drag people, and my enzo, SL, vette, GTR, Quattro, etc can all be bouncing off the rev limiter and launch perfectly straight, You do that in Forza 4 and you'll go sideways a bit and have to feather it back if you are 100% on the throttle, which is normal if you do that in any higher powered machine and you're on full throttle like that. The cars in forza for example, I get a better launch in my AWD talon launching at 5k rpm then I do bouncing off the limiter, you can get away with that in GT5 as long as your gears and suspension are set to grip, requires more than just that in Forza 4.

Both games have things they need to mash into each other. One thing is for certain, we all started on the GT series because of the love for automobiles (some did anyways) and there's plenty of that in both games to go around Both have their positives and negatives.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

If the Cars had weight in 4ZA. You would probably hear a lot of people complaining about how hard they were to drive somewhere? I had read a lot of reviews on gamefly for GT5, (which has a score of 7.2btw), complaining about how they were constantly spinning out etc. "Too hard, punishes you for mistakes" "Couldn't hang, sent it back" etc. Thats what happens in real life if you push a car past its limits at high speeds the weight and momentum of it carry's you some place you have no control over. So after reading your post I decided to see if noobs and people who cant drive for real were having the same problem with 4za4. Nope. Because it plays like an arcade racer should. And the AI races you as if it's not real as well.

So... you haven't actually played Forza 4, have you, right? Because it sure reads that way.

I have an 149hp Miata for leaderboard runs that will happily wag its tail out if fed too much power mid-bend, and will also head into hedge-threatening understeer if I enter the turn too hot. Forza almost feels like it punishes you more for mistakes than GT5, but that may be due to me having a much longer background of playing GT, so I may be used to it more. Forza's tire model in particular seems to hang around the more realistic spectrum of GT's; the average car feels roughly equivalant to Comfort Softs on its stock tires, compared to Sports Hards for GT5. If that makes sense.

Infact, that first post of yours in this thread happens to me almost every time I overcook a turn. In Forza.

 

[Spagetti69]

Wow that guy spelt Forza 4ZA.

How cool is that.

 

[Tenacious D]

Actually it's a lot cooler than F4. I think I'll have to start using it because it's a cute three letter acronym alongside GT5. 4ZA... I like that.

Anyhow, CRXFREAK is right about the launch behavior. This has always been true with Forza, but in 4ZA T10 has modeled the suspension dynamics nicely. The cars wiggle around on them in a realistic way. The cars in GT5 feel much more planted and "safer," for want of a better word. But for now at least, forget me being able to race cars in 4ZA the way I would in a racing sim. And online, that's not happening.

iridegravity is right about the bots though, at least in World Tour Mode, they sock.

 

[Spagetti69]

He spelt suck as sock. How cool is that lol.

 

[artem9000]

The main difference between GT5 and FM4 is weight center.

GT5 have perfect physics model of suspension, but weight moving in two dimension, between wheels, like a kart.

In FM4 weight moving in 3 dimensions and in turn weight center can go in different area and put you on two wheels for example.It's realistic, but we don't know how much.

I thing PD didn't touch this side because of their perfectionism, if we got it in game, we got it prove realistic.

Turn10 add it for fun and IMO they didn't spent hundreds of hours for truly balance.Just added, like in GTA.

 

[iridegravity]

So... you haven't actually played Forza 4, have you, right? Because it sure reads that way.

I have an 149hp Miata for leaderboard runs that will happily wag its tail out if fed too much power mid-bend, and will also head into hedge-threatening understeer if I enter the turn too hot. Forza almost feels like it punishes you more for mistakes than GT5, but that may be due to me having a much longer background of playing GT, so I may be used to it more. Forza's tire model in particular seems to hang around the more realistic spectrum of GT's; the average car feels roughly equivalant to Comfort Softs on its stock tires, compared to Sports Hards for GT5. If that makes sense.

Infact, that first post of yours in this thread happens to me almost every time I overcook a turn. In Forza.

Have not played it with a wheel I will admit, but the experience I had with it on the controller never hooked me. Felt easy with lame AI. Don't imagine I could tolerate the AI, but I should probably give a wheel a try. Kind of scares me though that I would invest in a wheel for this game and hate the AI or driving online against people who bash about with controllers. Like the AI taught them to. But 4ZA definitely has it all over GT5 when it comes to tuning/custom options. I remember that and agree a combination of the features from both would be ideal.

 

[Tenacious D]

He spelt suck as sock. How cool is that lol.

I'm glad you haz a sense of humor lol.

 

[Spagetti69]

I'm glad you haz a sense of humor lol.

It's a necessity when reading your posts. Lol.

 

[JDMKING13]

For some reason ABS 1 still makes the cars in GT5 feel as if they have some type of assist on and needs to be fixed ASAP. In my opinion to get the best feeling from the cars in GT5 ABS has to be off. both are great games, but GT5 feels better physics wise in my opinion.

 

[BarronGeddon]

[DELETED]

 

[skazz]

It's interesting to read such disparate views from those directly comparing F4 and GT5. Makes me wonder how much of this discussion is really about FFB implementation and quality of steering wheel FFB drivers within the XBox and PS3 respectively.

Currently I'm waiting for the 900 degree wheel patch for F4, since every time I do a direct comparison between F4 and GT5 using my Fanatec GT2 wheel, I come to the conclusion that F4 steering is somewhat non-linear and there is an FFB zone around the center which is "mushy". I'm hoping these issues get resolved, since otherwise I find it extremely hard to dig through the "bugs" to get at the underlying quality of the F4 physics....

 

[thechosenwonton]

Did not know F4 doesn't support 900'... The Fanatec Forza CSR wheel is a 900' wheel...

Is this actually true? Cause that's a deal breaker if so.

 

[skazz]

Did not know F4 doesn't support 900'... The Fanatec Forza CSR wheel is a 900' wheel...

Is this actually true? Cause that's a deal breaker if so.

It supports 900 degrees, but there are various bugs:
1. The no credits bug is the big one, and seems to be related to controller input cheat prevention software which detects very small movements from a 900 degrees wheel as being impossible on a controller and therefore gives the user zero credits after a race unless the user does some very large controller movements.
2. Even if you have 900 degrees set on your wheel, the steering seems to switch to 270 degrees mode if you put the car into a slide. Either that or some hidden assist which is even present in simulation mode physics.
3. If you compare F4 and GT5 steering linearity, you conclude that F4 is very twitchy (cars seem to steer a lot from the first few degrees of steering lock) whereas GT5 is completely linear. But there's no way to correct this in Forza 4's settings anywhere.
4. Forza 4 has a strange "mushy" feeling for the FFB around the center, which may or may not be related to the other issues.

Turn10 posted in this week's "Week in Review" that they are going to fix various bugs around 900 degrees wheels in the upcoming patch for Forza 4. So in a few weeks we'll know what was fixed and what we have to live with.

 

[African Kat]

Both have positives and negatives:

FM4 has got the simple stuff correct like the feeling of weight especially when then car struggles for grip over bumps. The wheelspin is more realistic, you can feel the inertia of the wheel. They tried to implement realistic braking especially ABS, however we don't have hardware that exists right now to sucessfully do this properly.

GT5 has the upper hand at the complex stuff at higher speeds like intricate and quick steering control.

I just feel that GT5 is the more serious tool that can tangibly change a users track skill level, and thats why i play GT online with other skilled gamers when i want to race.
I use FM4 to enjoy car sounds, drag racing, the livery editor and engine swops.

 

[Shaggy Alonso]

Genius! Make a poll on GT Planet asking users which physics they prefer between Forza and Gran Turismo. Genius 👍

That's just inspired me to go on a Christian forum and start up a poll to settle once and for all who's best - Jesus or Satan?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Genius! Make a poll on GT Planet asking users which physics they prefer between Forza and Gran Turismo. Genius 👍

That's just inspired me to go on a Christian forum and start up a poll to settle once and for all who's best - Jesus or Satan?

There is one on Forza Planet too: http://www.forzaplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=78

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

In FM4 weight moving in 3 dimensions and in turn weight center can go in different area and put you on two wheels for example.It's realistic, but we don't know how much.
.

Actually if you compare a live video of a car going on two wheels vs Forza 4 you will clearly see Fm4 weight shift also in 2 dimensions(flat) just like Gt5. Maybe this is due to the limited hardware of the consoles. In Fm4 as soon as one side is being lifted the other side is super-glued to the track even if the tires were already skidding.

 

[Shaggy Alonso]

For some reason ABS 1 still makes the cars in GT5 feel as if they have some type of assist on and needs to be fixed ASAP. In my opinion to get the best feeling from the cars in GT5 ABS has to be off. both are great games, but GT5 feels better physics wise in my opinion.

That'd be because ABS 1 is an assist.

I think the cars do not brake realistically without abs at 1 IMHO.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

That'd be because ABS 1 is an assist.

I think the cars do not brake realistically without abs at 1 IMHO.

If you play with the brake bias, it gets better. Stock settings, I remember it felt like I had no brakes. I'm No expert regards to no ABS brakes in GT5 as I've only driven without ABS a few times.