Forza 5/6 vs GT6 (See First Post Before Posting)

[Zer0]

These baseless statements are my favorite! What differences would those be?

Until proper tests and comparissons I don't know if there are any, but taking Forza as a benchmark has confused some people about how should impact torque steer in GT6 and even in real life.

Well see what will replace it but the infamous cobra vid is now a thing of the past.

 

[Terronium-12]

Except it isn't because you still continue to ignore it.

Just like you're going to ignore any and every new test that comes forth. It's only a matter of time.

 

[HAL20XX]

Until proper tests and comparissons I don't know if there are any, but taking Forza as a benchmark has confused some people about how should impact torque steer in GT6 and even in real life.

Well see what will replace it but the infamous cobra vid is now a thing of the past.

So we're taking GT6 as a benchmark because?

When the past 3 pages of "proof" have been inconclusive to say the least, your assumptions are purely based on speculation and brand loyalism.

 

[Minty]

I haven't had a chance to play, and it's tough to tell from the videos posted, but is there any visual effect at all to torque in GT6? I mean in a powerful car does the body twist a bit when you rev the engine?

I was just playing around with Forza and noticed that there's an observable effect on the suspension from engine torque even when totally stationary. And I know this effect exists in real life, so even on a perfectly level surface the the torque alone would create imbalance people are talking about.

 

[Ls2BluGoat]

How often does a car ( FWD, RWD and AWD ) has torque steer when launching on a flat purpose built drag strip IRL ? I have Sendai drag event video from around 10 years ago, even modified GTRs, WRXs and RX7s on Nittos had torque steer, but not always, some launched perfectly. There's an RB26 AE86 sedan with over 700HP - on Nittos, one launch had a slight torque steer, but the last run was perfect - straight like an arrow going for 9 secs. I don't think games could simulate everything - the occurrences in real life alone have some randomness

Precisely. When I launched my GTO at the dragstrip, my car would be all over the place if traction control was off even with DR's. Turning it on would correct it and I'd hook immediately; it wouldn't get rid of it completely but it would certainly minimize the chances of your car going in a direction it doesn't need to be going

You can have a perfectly prepped track, but torque steer would always be prevalent in some sort of way since the surface conditions always play a major role. Launching the car on the street, with street tires even with t/c on however, I'd find that I'd have wheelspin and that the ass-end would break loose almost always - mainly because Florida roads are trash as well.

I did the same test in Forza 4 with my car, added mods that's similar to its real life counterpart and I noticed that it yielded very similar results when on Sedona (prepped and sticky drag strip) compared to say Le Mans (would equate to the average real world road surface). Surely not to the degree of what happens IRL, but without a doubt it's there.

 

[Zer0]

Sorry for crappy vids. Let me know if you want me to try any other combo.

Please try this:



It was used as an example in GT5.

So we're taking GT6 as a benchmark because?

When the past 3 pages of "proof" have been inconclusive to say the least, your assumptions are purely based on speculation and brand loyalism.

No, we're taking real life as a benchmark, not a game.

 

[VXR]

Well if we're taking real life into account, come back to us when you can throw even a moderately powerful car into a corner using lift-off oversteer and it becomes an uncontrollable slide. As yet, not one car in my tests has lurched into snap oversteer on GT6.

 

[Symtex]

Well if we're taking real life into account, come back to us when you can throw even a moderately powerful car into a corner using lift-off oversteer and it becomes an uncontrollable slide. As yet, not one car in my tests has lurched into snap oversteer on GT6.

I can do that with my Mustang any day of the week and its not that powerful(only 302hp)

 

[UKMikey]

Is the Top Gear track flat in both games? It sounds like the ideal venue for comparisons.

I remember most of Scaff's FM4 tests seem to take place there.

 

[Minty]

It's as level as it can be, but it's not perfectly smooth in Forza(Can't say about GT6). I doubt the very slight bumps would have much of an effect on the car at launch, since they're really only noticeable at speed, though.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Is the Top Gear track flat in both games? It sounds like the ideal venue for comparisons.

I remember most of Scaff's FM4 tests seem to take place there.

Sadly no, it was taken out.

 

[shawtyoner]

I was just playing around with Forza and noticed that there's an observable effect on the suspension from engine torque even when totally stationary. And I know this effect exists in real life, so even on a perfectly level surface the the torque alone would create imbalance people are talking about.

Doesn't seem to be any noticeable movement in GT6.

Sorry Zero, but I haven't acquired a Cobra yet. I will as soon as I do.

 

[Zer0]

Is the Top Gear track flat in both games? It sounds like the ideal venue for comparisons.

I remember most of Scaff's FM4 tests seem to take place there.

The Top Gear track was removed in GT6. (Forza's has the exclusive in FM5!)

The above vid is from Scaff.

 

[TokoTurismo]

(Forza's has the exclusive in FM5!)

It's not exclusive @Zer0. PD just taken it out. As others said before, the Top Gear guys don't do exclusives.

 

[Zer0]

It's not exclusive @Zer0. PD just taken it out. As others said before, the Top Gear guys don't do exclusives.

It was discussed in other thread:
Will GT6 retain Top Gear test track?

 

[TokoTurismo]

It was discussed in other thread:
Will GT6 retain Top Gear test track?

Well yeah, but PD just taken out for who knows what reason.

 

[Zer0]

Well yeah, but PD just taken out for who knows what reason.

For the same reasons that now GT6 have no Ferrari F1 cars, or Forza Porsche but others games yes. Licenses expires and renewals are not always granted for the same game.

 

[UKMikey]

It was discussed in other thread:
Will GT6 retain Top Gear test track?

Thanks for the link and info guys. I'm pretty sure TG would've let GT6 use the track if PD were inclined (excuse the pun). I don't think BBC Worldwide are like Porsche and F1. They're more cash strapped than those two organizations and have no reason to deny licences to people who want to use them.

But that's a matter for the other thread.

 

[Fezz_ST]

Here's my video of the Shelby Cobra, track doesnt really matter, Flat surface, 1st gear launch, no steering input

 

[Symtex]

Can we all agree fm5 is a better simulation already ?

 

[Merkurio]

Can we all agree fm5 is a better simulation already ?

Even FM4 has better tyre simulation already.

 

[UKMikey]

Can we all agree fm5 is a better simulation already ?

I wouldn't dare to go that far despite the quantifiable proof provided on this page. I'd definitely say that single player is a barrel of fun to play though. "Some say" that makes it a worse simulation, lol.

 

[shawtyoner]

Since I don't have the Cobra, I took the Shelby Daytona Coupe, put it on CS tires and took it to several tracks.

SSRX : No torque steer
GT Arena : No torque steer
Grand Valley East (main straight) : No torque steer
Grand Valley East (diff section of track) : torque steer
Autumn Ring (main straight) : No torque steer
Willow Springs (main straight) : torque steer

In short, it seems to me that torque steer is only present on sections of tracks which are not absolutely level and flat. Torque steer does exist in game, but it comes down to where you are launching from. Sadly it seems like another case of a lapse in continuity in the GT series.

 

[Minty]

Went ahead and recorded a quick video showing telemetry to show exactly what's going on.

When you get enough torque the twisting force alone is enough to offset the grip and cause torque steer. I couldn't catch it in that video because the Game DVR isn't successfully recording more than 30 seconds at a time right now, but for a very brief moment when I peg the engine it generates about .01g to the right according to the telemetry.

And while likely just a visual effect, the engine visibly shaking is a really nice detail. It's seen in several other cars like the Ford GT, Ariel Atom, and probably more that I haven't checked.

 

[HAL20XX]

Went ahead and recorded a quick video showing telemetry to show exactly what's going on.

When you get enough torque the twisting force alone is enough to offset the grip and cause torque steer. I couldn't catch it in that video because the Game DVR isn't successfully recording more than 30 seconds at a time right now, but for a very brief moment when I peg the engine it generates about .01g to the right according to the telemetry.

And while likely just a visual effect, the engine visibly shaking is a really nice detail. It's seen in several other cars like the Ford GT, Ariel Atom, and probably more that I haven't checked.

To record more time, you need to *snap* the Game DVR. This will allow you to record up to the next 5 minutes.

On a side note, are you getting a noticeable delay when pulling up telemetry? It takes about 2 seconds for it to pull up on my screen and also causes the framerate to dip.

 

[Brend]

Here's my video of the Shelby Cobra, track doesnt really matter, Flat surface, 1st gear launch, no steering input

Woah, the car corrected itself onto the road too?! Incredible.

 

[Minty]

To record more time, you need to *snap* the Game DVR. This will allow you to record up to the next 5 minutes.

On a side note, are you getting a noticeable delay when pulling up telemetry? It takes about 2 seconds for it to pull up on my screen and also causes the framerate to dip.

I know, I just kept getting a "Game clip could not be recorded" error with a code when I would start a clip via the game DVR. Only thing that worked was the "always on" 30 second recording. Seems to be working fine now, though.

And I'm not getting any frame rate issues, but it is a bit slow to appear.

 

[Fezz_ST]

Mine also drops frame rate bringing up telemetry, that's why I try not to use it in the middle of a race lol

 

[McLaren]

Since I don't have the Cobra, I took the Shelby Daytona Coupe, put it on CS tires and took it to several tracks.

SSRX : No torque steer
GT Arena : No torque steer
Grand Valley East (main straight) : No torque steer
Grand Valley East (diff section of track) : torque steer
Autumn Ring (main straight) : No torque steer
Willow Springs (main straight) : torque steer

In short, it seems to me that torque steer is only present on sections of tracks which are not absolutely level and flat. Torque steer does exist in game, but it comes down to where you are launching from. Sadly it seems like another case of a lapse in continuity in the GT series.

That appears to me that whichever way the road is tilted is what causes the car to travel in that direction, not torque steer. Thus, the simulation of it is apparently, still not present as others have continued to state.

 

[YakieS1]

That appears to me that whichever way the road is tilted is what causes the car to travel in that direction, not torque steer. Thus, the simulation of it is apparently, still not present as others have continued to state.

I think this is due to caster in the front wheels.

Edit:
And IIRC, "Torque steer" is generally a phenomenon observed in Front-Wheel-Drive cars, most commonly those with transversely mounted engines, where one front tire loses traction before the other, or power is unevenly applied to the front wheels due to drivetrain geometry. It doesn't make sense to me to use the Cobra to discuss this phenomenon.

Are we talking about chassis twist (or slight engine rotation, as observed in some videos) due to the torque applied to the drivetrain of a rear wheel drive car? I suppose it's possible that this twist could cause the car to change direction one way or the other during heavy power application, but I would speculate that it would be very hard to predict, and would depend a lot on the road surface or suspension type. Maybe more prevalent in live axle rear ends than IRS cars.

Edit 2:
Now my post will forever be forgotten as it the last on this page...