Forza 5/6 vs GT6 (See First Post Before Posting)

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shawtyoner
In short, it seems to me that torque steer is only present on sections of tracks which are not absolutely level and flat. Torque steer does exist in game, but it comes down to where you are launching from. Sadly it seems like another case of a lapse in continuity in the GT series.
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It's because there isn't any torque steer.

It's the way GT6 "simulates" cambers by making the car turn.

Slight steering input + wheelspin = over steer.

As for real life, this video easily shows it


Just did a pretty funny test in GT6.

Parked an XKR-S half on the dirt and half on the road.

Floored it. The car just went straight or followed the camber. LOL!

And as for GT6 having the same terribad tyre model from GT5, tyres are still just grip multipliers. A honda fit gets the same G force as an XKR-S with the same grade tyre. Amazing simulation right thar!

YakieS1
I think this is due to caster in the front wheels.

Edit:
And IIRC, "Torque steer" is generally a phenomenon observed in Front-Wheel-Drive cars, most commonly those with transversely mounted engines, where one front tire loses traction before the other, or power is unevenly applied to the front wheels due to drivetrain geometry. It doesn't make sense to me to use the Cobra to discuss this phenomenon.

Are we talking about chassis twist (or slight engine rotation, as observed in some videos) due to the torque applied to the drivetrain of a rear wheel drive car? I suppose it's possible that this twist could cause the car to change direction one way or the other during heavy power application, but I would speculate that it would be very hard to predict, and would depend a lot on the road surface or suspension type. Maybe more prevalent in live axle rear ends than IRS cars.

Edit 2:
Now my post will forever be forgotten as it the last on this page... :(
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Torque steer does not only apply to FF cars and it's effects in FF cars are easily canned through FFB.

It should happen in all engine layouts given sufficient wheelspin due to unequal amounts of grip between the tyres of the same driven axle.
 
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McLaren
That appears to me that whichever way the road is tilted is what causes the car to travel in that direction, not torque steer. Thus, the simulation of it is apparently, still not present as others have continued to state.
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Seems to be the case. I was never debating anyone here, I just wanted to make sure. But it looks like they overlooked this again. Heading over to a buddies house on saturday who just picked up XBone, FM5 and new Thrustmaster wheel. Looking forward to finally trying it out!
 
Symtex
I can do that with my Mustang any day of the week and its not that powerful(only 302hp)
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My 150hp 3-series was a fan of it. Ended up on its side cause of snap oversteer.

I used the GT500 last night. It provided a lot more power over than the norm in GT, but again, throwing it into Scandinavian flicks would just result in the car going straight on with no weight transfer over the front axle causing the rear to go light. This is just wrong and needs to be addressed.
 
shawtyoner
Seems to be the case. I was never debating anyone here, I just wanted to make sure. But it looks like they overlooked this again. Heading over to a buddies house on saturday who just picked up XBone, FM5 and new Thrustmaster wheel. Looking forward to finally trying it out!
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Oh, I didn't intend for that to be a debate post. I was using your post as yet another example that GT doesn't simulate torque steer as it should & that the road (or location from your observations) causes it to "happen". Report back on the game feels with the wheel, though. Haven't read too many reviews on the game from a wheel-user.
 
Well as it stands FM5 seems likely to earn some brownie points in the microtransaction debacle. Car prices to decrease significantly, payouts to increase significantly.

It will remain to be seen whether GT6 implements something similar.
 
Tornado
Well, due to their own lack of competence they did add something similar...

:lol:
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I suppose so. I'm waiting for someone to claim that the "glitch" was intentional.

"PD love us so much and Sony FORCED these microtransactions on them and so KAZ made sure there was a glitch so we could all buy cars because he loves us so much and we're all a family and the microtransactions are only placeholders and he did my homework too and he turns water into wine and omg look a pony."
 
Talking about microtransactions, I've read the GT6 payout limit has been raised to 50 mill??? Is this for the benifit of purchasing credit packs?? After all they never raised the limit in the whole life of GT5.

Just curious, I'm not even sure what the credit deals amount too? How much are the credits in real money values??
 
Spagetti69
Talking about microtransactions, I've read the GT6 payout limit has been raised to 50 mill??? Is this for the benifit of purchasing credit packs?? After all they never raised the limit in the whole life of GT5.

Just curious, I'm not even sure what the credit deals amount too? How much are the credits in real money values??
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US Dollars:

$10 for 1 million credits.
$20 for 2.5 mill.
$50 for 7 mill.

So if you spend $350 dollars you won't quite hit the cap. :D
 
Imari
Well as it stands FM5 seems likely to earn some brownie points in the microtransaction debacle. Car prices to decrease significantly, payouts to increase significantly.

It will remain to be seen whether GT6 implements something similar.
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Did they say when the changes will drop? I'm at about $2.5 million Cr and I'm eyeing the 787 and R-18. If prices are going to drop soon, I might as well wait.
 
Imari
I suppose so. I'm waiting for someone to claim that the "glitch" was intentional.

"PD love us so much and Sony FORCED these microtransactions on them and so KAZ made sure there was a glitch so we could all buy cars because he loves us so much and we're all a family and the microtransactions are only placeholders and he did my homework too and he turns water into wine and omg look a pony."
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:lol:
 
HAL20XX
Did they say when the changes will drop? I'm at about $2.5 million Cr and I'm eyeing the 787 and R-18. If prices are going to drop soon, I might as well wait.
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http://www.forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/wir_12_13_13

ECONOMY CHANGES
This content update includes the first wave of adjustments to the Forza 5 economy, which we initially announced in early December. These adjustments are based on player behavior within the game, as well as feedback received from the Forza Motorsport community. First of all, we are dramatically increasing the rate at which credits are being earned in the game. For example, driver level payouts have more than doubled (from just over 15,000 credits to 35,000 credits). Players using average difficulty settings will also see approximately a 60 percent increase in credits earned per hour of play -- a number that can dramatically increase by upping the Drivatar difficulty and assist settings used during races. Wherever your skill level lies, however, you’ll be earning more credits per hour in Forza Motorsport 5 to spend on the cars that matter most to you.



In addition to increasing the payout, we have also reduced the price of the best cars in the game. In fact, the cumulative price of all on-disc cars in the game has decreased by 45 percent. To use a specific example, the Ferrari 250 GTO, one of the most expensive cars in Forza Motorsport 5, will cost 2 million credits after the content update, down from 6 million credits when the game launched. By comparison, that same car cost 10 million credits in Forza Motorsport 4.



By increasing the amount of credits available to players and lowering the prices of cars, it’s never been easier to earn the best cars in the game; in fact, thanks to these economy updates, Forza 5 will be able to earn their dream cars in approximately one-fifth the amount of time it took to earn those same cars in Forza 4. Naturally the most exclusive cars in the game will still take some strategy (and some saving) to acquire, but these changes mean that even the fastest cars in the game are now within every Forza 5 player’s reach.
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In addition, this update will bring some important adjustments to the Forza Motorsport 5 economy, including increasing the amount of credits earned for racing and lowering the prices of the best cars in the game. This content update, which will also include numerous other game improvements, is a significant addition to the Forza 5 experience. With the update currently in certification and awaiting final release, here’s a detailed look at the changes coming your way very soon.
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Quoted the relevant parts, but the short version is the changes are in certification now, and will be out with the next major patch.

I'd imagine avoiding buying any big cars until the patch hits is probably quite a good idea.
 
Imari
I suppose so. I'm waiting for someone to claim that the "glitch" was intentional.

"PD love us so much and Sony FORCED these microtransactions on them and so KAZ made sure there was a glitch so we could all buy cars because he loves us so much and we're all a family and the microtransactions are only placeholders and he did my homework too and he turns water into wine and omg look a pony."
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Wait? Those posts started rolling in immediately. You can even act surprised by the usernames, for example:

TokoTurismo
Oh yeah, one more thing. In my mind, this is PD's way of saying "Shhh. Quick. I want you all to this and not buy in-game credits before Sony finds out. We're with you on going against micro-transactions."

:)
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A post I just lodged in the GT forum. Probably shouldn't have mentioned Forza as I'll be labelled a fanboy, but I feel it makes a good point.

I hate to say this, but i think people are missing the point with the lack of lift off oversteer and torque steer. Both are like horsepower, they are functions of something else (hp is RPMXtorque so the torque being produced at a certain RPM gives you the horsepower figure) If there is no lift off oversteer in the game, which is a function of weight transfer and there is no torque steer which is a function of torque transfer in the drivetrain and suspension modeling, then the physics system is not better than GT5 and it's certainly not better than something like Forza even. It is a sign that there is something very wrong with, or there is something large missing from the physics model. I own both PS3 and Xbox and have spent a fair amount of time wheeling an xbone at a mates on Forza 5 and I say here, now, Forza right now pretty much has the most comprehensive, or consistent I should say, physics system of any console racer. Whether it is a limitation of understanding of how to code such physics at PD, or an issue with fidelity brought about by the hardware limitation of the console, TL:DR it ain't right.

If things like Rufs are near undriveable but other cars feel great then it smells to me of the game being tweaked to drive great with certain layouts of transmission/engine but not with others, and it not really having a proper active physics model that can emulate a relatively accurate facsimile of driving with any car based on a series of entered numerical values. Which is what a game desperately needs when it is trying to simulate the driving experience of over 1200 cars.

Regardless of any other bugs in the game, this is a game breaker for me.
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HAL20XX
Why would you lose respect for someone who quoted your post? It was a pro GT post on a pro GT website from a pro GT poster. Why would anyone think it was a "non-serious" post?
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I never wanted anyone to quote that post, it wasn't meant to be serious. As if anyone will believe PD will do that to not get anyone to buy in game credits. :\
 
Hmm, from the Autoblog GT6 review comments:

Steve K
It really depends on if you are looking for a fun game, or accurate physics. As a former driver instructor at a very famous driving school located at the famous Laguna Seca raceway, I can honestly say GT6, when played with a wheel, will make you a better real world driver on track. No, it's not exact, but the thought process will be the same and the physics are, BY FAR, the best of any console driving sim/game. For some people, that's boring. For me, if the physics aren't good, nothing else matters anyway. I can't stand playing Forza 5 for more than a few minutes at a time, but as a track day junkie I can spend hours lapping a car on GT6.

To each their own. Forza is a gorgeous looking game and, just like a pretty girl, that is all some people really want. All I can say is I'm glad both exist and pick whichever one you like.
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I think to the general public, Forza still has a stigma of being an arcade racer with less realistic physics than GT6. I've noticed it's really only on a handful of places like GT Planet where people have tested both Forza and GT physics and found it is Forza that has had the more accurate physics since about the fourth game.
 
As a former driver instructor at a very famous driving school located at the famous Laguna Seca raceway, I can honestly say GT6, when played with a wheel, will make you a better real world driver on track. No, it's not exact, but the thought process will be the same and the physics are, BY FAR, the best of any console driving sim/game.
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So if I play GT6 with a wheel, I'll know what to do when I panic stop to miss a deer or something and this happens:

shn0.jpg


Good to know.
 
Tornado
So if I play GT6 with a wheel, I'll know what to do when I panic stop to miss a deer or something and this happens:

shn0.jpg


Good to know.
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I know everybody keeps talking about this but I've yet to see any reports or pictures of this happening to an actual player, only AI.

It looks stupid and may very well be a physics issue but until I hear of it happening to an actual player and not just an AI driver then I'm calling it a braking input bug of some sort.
 
TokoTurismo
Now we are basing on post history? Are some people really spying on me? :ouch:
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I think it's just a generic statement that can be used for anything like:
Your next post will contain words
Your next post will probably show support for GT because that's your game of choice.
 

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