Forza Horizon 4: General Discussion

  • Thread starter PJTierney
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I know. I just want to see if there are unused barns like what we see on the main map. You never know...
I think that there are at least five or six unused barn finds (on the main map) that i discovered, without even searching them and in not that much time. I was just searching for bonus boards instead :lol::lol:
 
In FM7 and Gran Turismo we get them regardless if we play.

If Ralph Fulton told you his stool was tasty, would you eat it? :)

Nope, because that would actually be nasty, and lying. And in those games you don't "get them" - you get the opportunity to buy them. Sometimes for prices that require hours of grinding credits, versus between the 90-120 minutes it takes to get to 50% any given Festival Playlist, and receive them free.

But no matter which of these options I picked, I certainly wouldn't describe it as "nasty". I might prefer one method over the other, but it's all ultimately free ****.
 
People are still complaining about this?

Complaining about having to play the game to get the cars is like complaining that the person on Craigslist won't ship something they are giving away for free.

Anyways, I'm thrilled to see the Karmann Ghia returning as it's my all-time favorite VW.
 
In FM7 and Gran Turismo we get them regardless if we play.

If Ralph Fulton told you his stool was tasty, would you eat it?

Probably, since you love nasty. :)

Which versions of GT Sport and/or FM7 are you playing? I ask because there's very few cars you can actually drive in the former without actually racing to earn credits. FM7 has the rental system and DLC cars are free the first time in terms of in-game credits, but monthly prize cars occasionally required completing an event too.

But hey, resort to playground insults if you want*.

* - don't do that. :)
 
Which versions of GT Sport and/or FM7 are you playing? I ask because there's very few cars you can actually drive in the former without actually racing to earn credits. FM7 has the rental system and DLC cars are free the first time in terms of in-game credits, but monthly prize cars occasionally required completing an event too.

But hey, resort to playground insults if you want*.

* - don't do that. :)

FM7 straight out add the spotlight cars into the garage for the past few months, you can buy a second car if you want to but the first one was 100% free. The pack of RTR, Indycars, Senna, RS3 TCR, M8 GTE and more were given for free without any work.

I think after the backlash of base games cars being locked behind weird unlocks, T10 seem to just dump the new cars straight into the players garage.
 
Nope, because that would actually be nasty, and lying. And in those games you don't "get them" - you get the opportunity to buy them. Sometimes for prices that require hours of grinding credits, versus between the 90-120 minutes it takes to get to 50% any given Festival Playlist, and receive them free.

But no matter which of these options I picked, I certainly wouldn't describe it as "nasty". I might prefer one method over the other, but it's all ultimately free ****.

I don't remember "buying" my M8 GTE in FM7 - it was added to my garage as soon as I clicked on the option. Same applies for all other Spotlight cars. Cars in FM7 also tend to be much cheaper, what you describe is very characteristic of Horizon instead and its 10 million cars, or cars locked behind Trials and other nonsense.

Regarding GTS I'm not familiar with it but I do know the availability of the cars is not tied to cycled events. PD lets you buy unlockable stuff with real money which is not what I like but at least the content is always there.

What you (and other people) don't realize is that time is actually a resource and FH4 has plenty more to offer than a stupid championship that may or may not have been recycled from early ones (at the beginning of the Playlist there were quite a few like these), or Trials where people don't cooperate with each other when they're supposed to. It's definitely not "free" if you have to work for it, even if it doesn't cost you any money.

I think Playground is doing this to please the people who wanted more progression in the game, but most of these people wanted a structured career mode, not these timed events resembling those you see in Fallout, The Division, Far Cry and now Wolfenstein. Playground is not alone in this trend but it's sad to see Microsoft stating they're there for gamers yet repeat the bad recent practices of the industry as seen with the FM7 VIP cards and now this "engagement" stuff in FH4.
 
What you (and other people) don't realize is that time is actually a resource and FH4 has plenty more to offer than a stupid championship that may or may not have been recycled from early ones (at the beginning of the Playlist there were quite a few like these), or Trials where people don't cooperate with each other when they're supposed to. It's definitely not "free" if you have to work for it, even if it doesn't cost you any money.

What YOU don't understand, is that I've actually said, more than once (!), that it's perfectly reasonable if you simply don't LIKE the way FH4 chooses to dole out it's free content. The stupid part is calling it "nasty", if they require you to complete some perfunctory challenge or championship every week in order to obtain it.

And yes, it's definitely free content. That's not up for debate. Games have had content locked behind challenges or objectives for a long time, and no one has ever seriously tried to claim that means it somehow "cost" you something extra. By this metric if FH4 went the GT route of just putting free new cars in the game that you can buy, then those cars also would not be "free", because you had to "work" for the credits to buy them.
 
What YOU don't understand, is that I've actually said, more than once (!), that it's perfectly reasonable if you simply don't LIKE the way FH4 chooses to dole out it's free content. The stupid part is calling it "nasty", if they require you to complete some perfunctory challenge or championship every week in order to obtain it.

And also insinuating that the game is pay to win because...sometimes the cars are actually good via Forzathon and seasonal playlists.

I prefer the old DLC style to the current style.
No hassle challenge. We can buy as many as we like.

And? If we go back to that we reach the same point we had with FH3 specifically, and probably other Forza games as well: monthly DLC drops, people download it, dick around with the cars for a bit, and then complain that there is nothing there to do until the next month's DLC. Especially prevalent if the two expansions are released and there's nothing left in the pipeline. At least with Forzathon in FH3, people could do something to pass the time, but even then those complaints were present.
 
Either way people are going to complain, because they cannot please everyone.

Exactly. So might as well take the route that actually gets people to play the game more then once a month.

Is there problems with how the drip feed system works? Yes, there's no doubt. But we're dealing with a developer who is very much learning the ropes of games as a service after years of 'monthly DLC, once a quarter expansions', so that's expected.
 
Regarding GTS I'm not familiar with it but I do know the availability of the cars is not tied to cycled events. PD lets you buy unlockable stuff with real money which is not what I like but at least the content is always there.

GT Sport offers single cars for $13.49 CAD, or 10,000,000 credits in-game. Sure, you can run those races at any time (well, provided the servers are up, since you can't buy cars without them), but you'll have to grind the most lucrative race for multiple hours to afford it with credits.

What you (and other people) don't realize is that time is actually a resource and FH4 has plenty more to offer than a stupid championship that may or may not have been recycled from early ones (at the beginning of the Playlist there were quite a few like these), or Trials where people don't cooperate with each other when they're supposed to. It's definitely not "free" if you have to work for it, even if it doesn't cost you any money.

People other than you recognize time is valuable. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

The weekly challenges in FH4 — outside of the ones that rely on other players — require around an hour of play time. That swells up a bit on the first week when the Series-long challenges first appear: the Top Gear stories took a while to complete, for instance.

Playground is also adding a few of the one-time prizes as permanent offline ones, like in the Star Cards.

The current approach isn't perfect IMO. I think once a car is unlocked, players should be able to buy as many as they want. But, I realize that creates an issue with the auction house. Yes, the seasonal GaaS model requires steady interaction from players, and that can be annoying for some. I can see the reasoning behind it though: having regular new content drops in a game with as much potential multiplayer interaction is meant to, well, spur players to do more than just drive the new cars. If an hour or so of play to earn the new car is turning off a player from even trying to earn new cars, I can't imagine that player would be spending a ton of time with the game on a regular basis anyway.*

* - This doesn't address those that are too busy to play throughout that particular week, thus missing out on something.
 
The current approach isn't perfect IMO.

To be quite honest, I don't think any quick fix WRT FH4 and the drip feeding of content is perfect, or even that great, because there's a whole host of issues that could arise with putting them in. It really seems like a problem that should be looked at once FH5 is being developed, then the various outcomes could be looked at and prevented, to build something that is good for everyone, or at least, as many people as possible.

But really, this entire thing is just preaching to a non-existent choir, because we all know that there's problems with the system as it currently works. Only one person really keeps mentioning it though, and has some incredibly weird reasons for believe that it is a problem. (Said problem isn't really even the right way to frame the problem)
 
What YOU don't understand, is that I've actually said, more than once (!), that it's perfectly reasonable if you simply don't LIKE the way FH4 chooses to dole out it's free content. The stupid part is calling it "nasty", if they require you to complete some perfunctory challenge or championship every week in order to obtain it.

And yes, it's definitely free content. That's not up for debate. Games have had content locked behind challenges or objectives for a long time, and no one has ever seriously tried to claim that means it somehow "cost" you something extra. By this metric if FH4 went the GT route of just putting free new cars in the game that you can buy, then those cars also would not be "free", because you had to "work" for the credits to buy them.

Calling it "nasty" is not stupid, it's an opinion. I have had a low opinion of Playground for a while despite acknowledging their game is fun to play.

Repeatedly trying to mock me for calling it "nasty" just because I criticize your pretty precious perfect game is what is stupid here. This is an FH4 discussion thread not a circlejerk thread.

Games have had unlockables for a long time, yes, but timed events are a recent development. There's a clear difference in how the Top Gear and the Playlist unlockables were handled. One is an old-school method, the other is a shameless attempt at squeezing more "engagement" from players in a game that's almost a year old now and got backlash for doing away with features (which they had to bring back upon realizing how stupid it was to remove them in the first place). I remember how FM7 got criticized, and rightly so, for forcing people to play on Leagues to earn certain rewards, and the same should apply to Forza Horizon.

In fact the only reason Forzathon even exists is to punish late adopters. Is it ok for a company to do it? Well, it's business. The game needs to sell the week it comes out. But FH3 reached end of support and Playground wasn't even nice enough to unlock all the cars, they gifted a few HE cars to players and that was it. On the other hand, T10 put even the FE cars in the Autoshow, and that was before the last update. See the difference?

FWIW people have complained about grindy challenges in racing games for a while, so it's not as if the regular way of unlocking stuff was a good thing. Having cars cost 10 million in a game with relatively slow income for non-creators ain't nice either. Thing is, if you miss Playground's deadlines you end up having to pay double that amount. Or 2,000 FP in the Forzathon Shop.

From experience in the past couple years it was proven the Forza Horizon community is more lenient towards these practices than the Forza Motorsport community and players like you are proof of it, creating memes such as "literally unplayable" and mocking people for pointing out flaws in the game.
 
Calling it "nasty" is not stupid, it's an opinion. I have had a low opinion of Playground for a while despite acknowledging their game is fun to play.
It being an opinion doesn't really change anything though. People can have opinions based off facts, and things that are actually happening while others can have opinions based of things that are far from the truth. They can be wrong, right, stupid, smart, and anything in between.

Repeatedly trying to mock me for calling it "nasty" just because I criticize your pretty precious perfect game is what is stupid here. This is an FH4 discussion thread not a circlejerk thread.
It's not because you're criticizing our "precious perfect game" (can't believe you're actually grasping for that :lol:), it's because it sounds more ridiculous the more you go on.

Yes it's a discussion thread, so get used to people having differing opinions, and people disputing yours. That's how a discussion works, so it's stupid that you'd pretend otherwise. If you didn't want to have a discussion about your public opinion, than don't post it. Or maybe write it in a journal or something.

Games have had unlockables for a long time, yes, but timed events are a recent development. There's a clear difference in how the Top Gear and the Playlist unlockables were handled. One is an old-school method, the other is a shameless attempt at squeezing more "engagement" from players in a game that's almost a year old now and got backlash for doing away with features (which they had to bring back upon realizing how stupid it was to remove them in the first place). I remember how FM7 got criticized, and rightly so, for forcing people to play on Leagues to earn certain rewards, and the same should apply to Forza Horizon.
What about the way Forza used it do it with their Unicorn cars, where you had to actually join the forums and participate in a Timed, limited event like photomode contests or livery contest in order to attempt to win one of the many cars locked with absolutely no other ways to obtain them outside of those contests and only had one winner per event? That was as far back as FM4, probably even 3 if I remember correctly? This way now at least leaves everyone with a chance. Your real life priorities are your own problem, you still have the same chance everyone else has, and if you can't because of real life time restrictions then I can't really say you should entirely be blaming the game at that point.

News flash, devs and publishers want people to play their game! Read all about it!

FM7 wasn't any different in regard to how it handled free DLC vehicles either. Some got added directly to you, some required you going through hoops to get. Fm7 also had it's very own Forzathon with locked vehicles, did you forget about that?



In fact the only reason Forzathon even exists is to punish late adopters. Is it ok for a company to do it? Well, it's business. The game needs to sell the week it comes out. But FH3 reached end of support and Playground wasn't even nice enough to unlock all the cars, they gifted a few HE cars to players and that was it. On the other hand, T10 put even the FE cars in the Autoshow, and that was before the last update. See the difference?
Is to punish late adopters? That's the only reason? :lol: and you wonder why someone called your opinion a stupid one. No, it's not ok for a company to force a policy that is set up to punish late adopters, but that's literally not what happened no matter how hard you're trying to pretend. That's a delusional thought if you're really believing that. Your opinion to support that is "because it needs to sell the week it comes out"? That doesn't really make much sense.

Asking people to play their game in return for putting in free vehicles doesn't sound remotely unreasonable to me. I'd much rather have that approach than not being able to afford it even if they do put it in the game. Spending millions on a car sounds much more intrusive than actually playing the game (that I'm likely already going to be playing in the first place) and acquiring said car for free. I'm one of the guys that usually doesn't have too much money stored up.
 
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Repeatedly trying to mock me for calling it "nasty" just because I criticize your pretty precious perfect game is what is stupid here. This is an FH4 discussion thread not a circlejerk thread.

Considering how you've more or less accused Playground of trying to institute a play to win model, and made conspiracy theories about why the Bone Shaker and the X-Class are leaderboard cars (A more or less rare occurrence, considering there isn't any vehicle given out via the Seasonal Playlist or Forzathon is like that to my knowledge) alongside consistently bringing up the issue that we keep circling around to, it's more or less criticizing you for not letting sleeping dogs lie. Sure doesn't look like a circlejerk to me.

Yes, we know that it's a crap system. Pretty certain Playground does too. We don't need to re-litigate it, every time you bring it up. We know you don't want to play the game and expect the cars to be given to you without much effort, without taking into consideration cratering the value of the vehicles on the Auction House, for everyone as a matter of a fact, and pissing off players who put in the (meager) time to win them basically seeing everyone else get all the cars for free while the game is still going on. At the game's end of life? Absolutely, go for it.

In fact the only reason Forzathon even exists is to punish late adopters. Is it ok for a company to do it? Well, it's business. The game needs to sell the week it comes out. But FH3 reached end of support and Playground wasn't even nice enough to unlock all the cars, they gifted a few HE cars to players and that was it. On the other hand, T10 put even the FE cars in the Autoshow, and that was before the last update. See the difference?

Oh yes, because that's definitely what's going on. It certainly isn't to make people play the game after monthly DLC drops or whatever, or the next expansion comes and goes. Yes, Playground not unlocking Forzathon cars for all after the game's life had ended sucks, but that certainly isn't *why* Forzathon as a whole was instituted. Jesus, listen to yourself, please.

From experience in the past couple years it was proven the Forza Horizon community is more lenient towards these practices than the Forza Motorsport community and players like you are proof of it, creating memes such as "literally unplayable" and mocking people for pointing out flaws in the game.

We're willing to criticize Playground when need be. As has been pointed out to you, time after time, however, is that everybody knows the system is bad, and we've talked about it and the solutions to fix it at length. You continually bring it up, like a broken record, and then make up frankly insane reasoning to try and make it seem like Playground is some insidious actor, when in reality, they're a studio that is trying to adjust to the needs and wants of not only a franchise, and fans, but also to a new way of game development that runs much longer then anything else they've ever done.

When you invariably accuse Playground of instituting a play to win model (They haven't, and I seriously cannot imagine a world where such a thing can succeed in a game as open ended as Forza Horizon is) and try to make it seem like the Bone Shaker and the X-Class being seasonal playlist cars that are good is a bad thing (when really, it's a one off event, and besides, the insinuation of that statement, that all the post launch cars should be trash, just leads to a whole lot of other stupidity when it comes to that subject) and keep trying to poke at that subject, well, patience runs thin. Especially when your arguments don't really have a good leg to stand.
 
Is this argument ever going to end? I feel like this is the fourth or fifth season in a row where Playground gets insulted for trying to keep FH4 fresh for players WHO DON’T MIND PLAYING IT. :mad:

People will always complain, at some point you have to stick with your battles and realize you won't always win. I personally don't mind much how they've done it and largely ignore the redundant complaining, but I can understand why some people don't like it. I think that despite the fact the rewards are "exclusive" (so far, most of them have been offered a 2nd time in different ways), they've done a better job than a lot of other games out there. I'll re-use @SlipZtrEm post as an example of a system I find utterly ridiculous:

GT Sport offers single cars for $13.49 CAD

And some people find that okay. A lot of people, it seems. Keep in mind the game now retails for $30CAD(22$ USD/18£)... Someone buying the game today is effectively spending half the price of the game to acquire one single car, that you could also get at no extra cost by actually playing the game, albeit not in a very fun way. :dunce:
 
And some people find that okay. A lot of people, it seems. Keep in mind the game now retails for $30CAD(22$ USD/18£)... Someone buying the game today is effectively spending half the price of the game to acquire one single car, that you could also get at no extra cost by actually playing the game, albeit not in a very fun way.

Which is absolutely hilarious when there are people on the GT side of the board, saying with their whole chest, that micro-transactions are 'optional' and don't do anything for the experience to the game. Well, when a series of events requires cars that are, at minimum, starting at 10,000,000 credits and goes further north, and you can only get it via either grinding for cash (Basically like watching paint dry, and dealing with moronic AI for the hopes of a clean race bonus) to the point where people have devised methods to grind for cash the fastest and most efficiently, or, as you said, paying half the price of the base game in CAD to get it, with the most expensive cars being locked out of this method so you're forced to grind anyway. All for vehicles that, because of PD's galaxy brain when it comes to class structure, are cast off into the misfits category and basically have no use in a game ostensibly about GT4/GT3/LMP1 online racing.

Then again, it speaks a lot to how when it comes to GT, if it does something (Toyota exclusivity deal, micro-transactions) then it's good. If everybody else (especially Forza) does it, it's bad.
 
"Calling it "nasty" is not stupid, it's an opinion."

I'm confused, are those two things mutually exclusive? Lots of people have stupid opinions.

"This is an FH4 discussion thread not a circlejerk thread."

Oh get down off the crucifix, dude. Yeah, it's a FH4 discussion thread. You offered an opinion, and I (and others) have discussed at length, why we think it's dumb.

The rest of your blather is just, once again, talking past the part where I've acknowledged that it's perfectly reasonable not to like the way they give out free cars in FH4. The stupid part is calling it "nasty", as though there's some malevolent intent behind it. Which is exactly why I've mocked you for it several times.
 
People will always complain, at some point you have to stick with your battles and realize you won't always win.

Of course, but the repetitive and increasingly derogatory nature of the complaint in question is now completely disproportionate to the actual concern surrounding exclusive cars and how to obtain them.
 
This summer Forzashop:
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