Forza Motorsport 7: General Discussion

  • Thread starter PJTierney
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Yep it's a mess :

I did a livery on a car, saved it on the system and on the car.

Decided to do a variation on the livery (few colors changes)

Bought the same car, applied the livery on it , do my changes , and saved it and named it differently to the first livery

Then I go to my garage to see back to back both cars with the variation.

Surprise ! Both cars were sporting the latest iteration of the livery, and my first livery was sporting the colors changes....
 
So who wants to talk about physics :D

I came across this over on ResetEra, figured it'd be worth sharing here:

Tested:
Forza Motorsport 7 Brake Bias

So, in Forza games the brake bias settings are a bit weird, I wanted to have a deeper look at this.


Short explanation of what brake bias is and does:

Imagine a car from the side:
car-schematice0dls.png

The brake forces from the tires act on the center of gravity from below, so it's easy to imagine it as if someone is trying to pull the rug from under you, making you fall over. In our car schematic this falling-over is a (rotational) momentum on the center of gravity that is shifting weight from the back to the front. If the car has a perfect 50:50 weight distribution, it will be heavier at the front under braking, meaning that you will want more brake force at the front for ideal braking.

Now if the brake balance was 50:50 and we would push the brake pedal harder and harder, the rear tires would lock up first and we would lose a lot of grip this way, making us stop slower and send the car spinning at the slightest turning of the steering wheel or from unevenness of the road.
So, not only do we need more brake force for ideal braking at the front, we need even more brake force than what is ideal at the front, so that - for safety reasons - the front tires will always lock up first and keep the car going straight (or "understeer" with a turned steering wheel) instead of sending it spinning.

A normal road car has ABS and only needs one hydraulic system, meaning the hydraulic pressure is the same at the front as in the back, but there are other ways to get more brake force to the front:
different-brake-discsemict.jpg

Note the different sizes of the brake discs and how much bigger the front brake callipers are than the rears.

Many race cars feature two independent hydraulic systems for the front and the rear, making it possible to change the brake bias from the cockpit during a race. But even if that's not the case, often the callipers allow adjustment before a race to set the brake balance.


Why is it weird in Forza?

Even rear engined cars that are heavier at the back need higher front brake force to be safe. In Forza however, the brake bias by default is always set to 50:50 without sending the player flying off all the time. This can make sense in a car like our yellow Seat above, if the game means "50:50 brake pressure" with much larger brake discs at the front (in racing and engineering it's usually the overall brake force distribution, with the different sizes calculated in already). But even in a very low car with 50:50 weight distribution and basically same sized brake discs like a new Mazda MX-5...
sameish-brake-discsf3ikk.jpg

Forza still defaults to a 50:50 brake bias. For comparison: Assetto Corsa starts with a realistic and safe OEM brake(-force) bias of 72/28 for the MX-5.


Now, since I don't lock the rear tires under braking first in Forza all the time, this must mean that the ideal brake bias - for the absolute shortest straight-line stopping distance (even if it's unsafe) - must be further to the rear in Forza's system. It's easy to find the ideal configuration in Forza, since the game shows you calculated and always updated stopping distances on the left side of the tuning menu:
bias-screenshotwndeh.jpg

In the car I tried first, I instead found that the stopping distance grew larger with more rear bias though ...and decreased with more front bias and that you needed to adjust to a lower brake pressure to get ideal results (maybe because the calculation simulation can lock up wheels and needs Forza's bad/slowpoke'ish ABS).

It just didn't make sense.



Now...

The TEST

The car was the 2016 Mazda MX-5 shown above (but not shown in the Forza tuning-menu screenshot, I don't remember which car that was from). The MX-5 was completely stock with only the brake system upgraded to be adjustable.

All distance values are taken from the tuning menu.
brakebias_3dgraphs87ily.png


Not easy to see, but the values again went up with more rear bias at first, but then quickly decreased like I noticed in the first car.

The shortest stopping distances were found at 100% brake pressure and only 40% front brake bias with 31.1 meters from 60mph to zero and 82.7 meters from 100mph to zero.
brakebias_contourgrapeuiyc.png

[horizontal axis: brake pressure , vertical axis: brake bias , legend colors: stopping distance]


The only way that this makes sense is that "50:50" means absolutely nothing in Forza and is only signaling the player where the default brake bias was set to by Turn 10... either that, or I am missing something important. Then please tell me.
 
I kinda haven't thought about the rivals events in a while, I'm now trying to focus on creating my own decals. I've made actually quite a few already. It took me a while to realize that there's a snap option for moving shapes and I'm glad that it exists. It makes rotating and moving decals around much easier.
 
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ForzaRC Pro-Am average team times have been updated:

⬆TEAM 2 – D - G/Team Captain: FH4 Venom - 2:18.473
⬆TEAM 4 – M - Q/Team Captain: TX3 Lightning - 2:18.665
⬇TEAM 5 – R - S/Team Captain: TPR b0x - 2:18.789
➡TEAM 3 – H - L/Team Captain: TX3 Wesley - 2:18.812
➡TEAM 6 – T - Z/Team Captain: TX3 Hard BR - 2:19.260
➡TEAM 1 – A - C/Team Captain: G2 Laige - 2:19.621

A big move as Team 5, which has been in the lead from the beginning, falls to third, allowing Teams 2 and 4 to move up.

JSR Rayzer JDM is still fastest at 2:02.927

Team Leader times:
TX3 Lightning - 3rd - 2:03.393
TX3 Hard BR - 5th - 2:03.537
F4H Venom - 8th - 2:03.701
TPR b0x - 13th - 2:03.857
TX3 Wesley - 117th - 2:05.265
G2 Laige - 268th - 2:05.992

Team Leader times are unchanged. There are now 27,582 times posted.
 
This has been running for so long I've completely forgotten what the prizes were. :lol:
 
This has been running for so long I've completely forgotten what the prizes were. :lol:
I was just thinking that myself. Here they are again.

Team finish position:
Team 1 ForzaRC Team Reward – 2014 Ford FPV Limited Edition Pursuit Ute Forza Edition
Team 2 ForzaRC Team Reward – 2013 Dodge Dart GT
Team 3 ForzaRC Team Reward – Unnatural Pairings Driver Gear
Team 4 ForzaRC Team Reward – 50,000 Credits
Team 5 ForzaRC Team Reward – 1972 Chrysler VH Valiant Charger R/T E49
Team 6 ForzaRC Team Reward – 1998 Subaru Impreza 22B STi Forza Edition

Team Captain finish position:
Team 1 ForzaRC Captain Reward – Motion Capture Driver Gear
Team 2 ForzaRC Captain Reward – 2016 W Motors Lykan Hypersport
Team 3 ForzaRC Captain Reward – 2016 Mazda MX-5 Forza Edition
Team 4 ForzaRC Captain Reward – 2014 Chevrolet Super Sport Forza Edition
Team 5 ForzaRC Captain Reward – 2012 Dodge Charger SRT8
Team 6 ForzaRC Captain Reward– 50,000 Credits

Top 10 percentile – 25,000 credits
Top 25 percentile – 2009 Mercedes-Benz SL 65 AMG Black Series
Top 75 percentile – 2012 Ferrari F12berlinetta

Finally, everyone who sets a time in this event will win the 2013 Mercedes-Benz A 45 AMG Forza Edition just for taking part.
 
So who wants to talk about physics :D

I came across this over on ResetEra, figured it'd be worth sharing here:
Well, I think you have found something very important! I'm not a tuner by all means, but after reading this post I decided to experiment with the brake balance and got great results in a variety of front engine/rwd and mid engine/rwd at Mugello.
For example, for the McLaren F1 I adjusted the brake balance to 69 (front) and brake pressure to 105%. The car was very stable under heavy braking with no locking and a tendency to understeer, but very manageable. I'm really quite impressed by the feel and results and I hope that better racers also test this and report their findings.
Update: Brake balance 62, brake pressure the same, tire pressure around 28 all around, no ABS or traction control needed, I can now control the F1 at will, wow!
 
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So who wants to talk about physics :D

I came across this over on ResetEra, figured it'd be worth sharing here:

Another thing I feel is worth taking note of is that the default tire pressure setting is the same for every car, from the humble NA Mazda Miata to GT racers to NASCARs. Many cars feel waaay better once you adjust tire pressure to the recommended inflation values.

As you mentioned in the past, the likelihood of T10 or PG ditching the current tuning system for a more in-depth one are nil; but that doesn't mean we can't hope the default settings will be adjusted more accurately for every individual car (ot at the very least, for very similar cars) in the future.
 
Forza Summer Update:

https://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/Forza_Summer_Update

Important Points:
-More FM7 Updates and content planned
-FM7 will get rid of all price crates
-neither FM7 or FH4 will have tokens
they really improved the game alot and listening to the community, have lots of respect for them for supporting the game for so long. This really shows that FM8 will not launch next year but will be launch title for the next Xbox in 2020. They should atleast do 2 track expansions to keep the game still fresh next year, cars are no concern at this point. With the features that will be added later this game is gonna last longer than any Forza Motorsport. Great stuff 👍
 
Forza Summer Update:

https://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/Forza_Summer_Update

Important Points:
-More FM7 Updates and content planned
-FM7 will get rid of all price crates
-neither FM7 or FH4 will have tokens

It’s great to see what they’re doing for FM7. I recently decided to give it another shot after pretty much hating it and with many improvements and now more upcoming features it felt like a different game since launch. Shame FH3 doesn’t work properly anymore on PC for me.

I wonder how mods and the driver gear system will work. Currently with the cheap prize crates giving “master” mods it is really handy and as I do unbeatable long races, provides me with at least 140k a race. Hopefully mods don’t go I like them.
 
They could have simply written "We ****ed up, we're sorry and we'll fix it." and it would have saved them a lot of time. :lol: That's the feeling I get reading the last few update logs anyway, it's mostly damage control.
 
They could have simply written "We ****ed up, we're sorry and we'll fix it." and it would have saved them a lot of time. :lol: That's the feeling I get reading the last few update logs anyway, it's mostly damage control.

Yep. They know that Horizon 4 is on the docket, so they are fixing what they can, instituting the changes that people have been begging for for months now, before the majority of the T10 get pushed over to work on FH4, leaving FM7 with a skeleton team.

Not like it matters, the damage control. They certainly have turned off a lot of fans - myself included, with how utterly broken, berift of content and general changes 7 had. It's the sort of thing that doesn't really go away with damage control, if I'm honest.
 
they really improved the game alot and listening to the community, have lots of respect for them for supporting the game for so long. This really shows that FM8 will not launch next year but will be launch title for the next Xbox in 2020. They should atleast do 2 track expansions to keep the game still fresh next year, cars are no concern at this point. With the features that will be added later this game is gonna last longer than any Forza Motorsport. Great stuff 👍
This right here i agree with! I'm glad they are fixing and improving the game little by little but I still want them to touch upon freeplay. While there's good options and it's nice overall, I feel it's too discombobulated, it could be simplified some and there's a few bugs that are still frustrating like headlight glitch, weak and inaccurate car sounds, missing or wrong gear shift animations, etc. At this point I'm being a little more patient since I see they are making an effort and hopefully it all gets panned out before the years over. Then there's content, this game does indeed have plenty of cars to go around covering every major race type and many dozens of important car models. But there definitely needs to be at least 1 track thrown into this game although I vote for 2 just like Forza 6 had. But come on T10, your main rivals GT sport and PC2 both have had track packs, don't let us down by not adding at least one fresh track. Keep this game alive!
 
I hope this pushes T10 to making FM8 really great, since I don't disagree that T10 did create a lot damage for the Motorsport franchise. It's sad, because they did so great in the old Forzas on X360, so seeing damage control from them sucks.

Hope they can redeem themselves for FM8. Not only do I want them to making it the most fun, but also make it the best Forza ever since Forza 4 with new tracks and features with a addition of dirt racing, and some form of race editor.
 
I hope this pushes T10 to making FM8 really great, since I don't disagree that T10 did create a lot damage for the Motorsport franchise. It's sad, because they did so great in the old Forzas on X360, so seeing damage control from them sucks.

Hope they can redeem themselves for FM8. Not only do I want them to making it the most fun, but also make it the best Forza ever since Forza 4 with new tracks and features with a addition of dirt racing, and some form of race editor.
Oh they will, they are taking there time it seems. Im betting we are gonna get full dynamic tod and weather with snow and dirt races. Forza 7 already runs at 4K60 so they have all the extra power of the next console and pc to improve the visuals drasticly wich currently they look great outside few things. The car models are still one of the best, they just need to improve the shaders and some modeling errors. So 800 cars will be at launch i think, unlike Forza 5 where they needed to remodel and updated cars with pbr. thats why Forza 5 had 200 cars only at launch, and thats why i think there wil be over 800 on FM8. Hopefully they also add classic track like Fujimi kaido wich will look insane with the new graphics and weather. Just listing all these things up, it makes sense why they moved FM8 to next gen. If it would launch next year, there wouldn't be a much difference compared to 7. The base console holds them down to go furhter adding these things.
 
Forza Summer Update:

https://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/Forza_Summer_Update

Important Points:
-More FM7 Updates and content planned
-FM7 will get rid of all price crates
-neither FM7 or FH4 will have tokens
Nice changes, I look forward to the content they're adding. 👍

Though I never really minded the prize crates honestly. They were relatively harmless additions since they just gave you mod cards and you could beat the game without them.
 
I somehow doubt there will be more car packs or even expansions coming past august. They just talked about updates here... updates like removing prize crates in a 5 to 6 months process. There is one big problem for the future of FM7 and that is Horizon 4.

I hope im wrong though. I really enjoy the game right now.
 
The car models are still one of the best, they just need to improve the shaders and some modeling errors. So 800 cars will be at launch i think, unlike Forza 5 where they needed to remodel and updated cars with pbr. thats why Forza 5 had 200 cars only at launch, and thats why i think there wil be over 800 on FM8.

There are still many cars that date all the way back to FM1 and have simply been polished up, warts and all. The great “remodeling” of FM5 was not really true. It’s as simple as looking at the quality of the ‘70 Chevelle compared to any of the cars that were introduced this gen.
 
I somehow doubt there will be more car packs or even expansions coming past august. They just talked about updates here... updates like removing prize crates in a 5 to 6 months process. There is one big problem for the future of FM7 and that is Horizon 4.

I hope im wrong though. I really enjoy the game right now.

There is at least one more car pack coming for August to fulfill their promise of two more car packs for the Car Pass, iirc.
 
I somehow doubt there will be more car packs or even expansions coming past august.
There is at least one more car pack coming for August to fulfill their promise of two more car packs for the Car Pass, iirc.
Basically this. There will be at least one more car pack to be released as Turn 10 has still the "2 free car packs" promise to fulfill. Considering that they're doing damage control right now, they're not going to fall back on their promise.

With that said, I still have a hunch that they might do something content wise beyond moving stuff, something feels different here. That's for sure.
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For now, it's back to me trying to create more decals. I guess it will prep me for FH4.
 
There are still many cars that date all the way back to FM1 and have simply been polished up, warts and all. The great “remodeling” of FM5 was not really true. It’s as simple as looking at the quality of the ‘70 Chevelle compared to any of the cars that were introduced this gen.
Like i said they need to improve those modeling errors, but i don't agree with the simply just polished part. They have remodeled alot of the cars, sure there few cars still based off there first modeling but they have really improved most of them outside the Chevelle and some others. Even the Chevelle in its current state looks good, yes it has a litlle modeling error but it looks really good. They got some serious update with shaders, textures, details, fully detailed interior and the polygons are way higher. So you can't just say they reused the same model. Its te same in GTS and PC2, they used older models too wich they have updated just like Forza. They can probably fix that for FM8 if they intend to fix it, they can polish it even further just like they did for 5 and it will still look good. But the other 700+ cars look good so i don't see the problem here.
 
Iam the only one who actually liked the prize crates?

The mod ones were fairly useful in the early game to get credits (those 100% bonuses are pretty good), but I never really bothered with the other ones.
 
Like i said they need to improve those modeling errors, but i don't agree with the simply just polished part. They have remodeled alot of the cars, sure there few cars still based off there first modeling but they have really improved most of them outside the Chevelle and some others. Even the Chevelle in its current state looks good, yes it has a litlle modeling error but it looks really good. They got some serious update with shaders, textures, details, fully detailed interior and the polygons are way higher. So you can't just say they reused the same model. Its te same in GTS and PC2, they used older models too wich they have updated just like Forza. They can probably fix that for FM8 if they intend to fix it, they can polish it even further just like they did for 5 and it will still look good. But the other 700+ cars look good so i don't see the problem here.

I’m not talking about little details, rather the basic shape of the car being wrong because it was modeled from photos circa 2005 and intended for use on the original Xbox. Sticking with the Chevelle as an example, the entire nose of the Forza car is canted forward like the prow of a boat...has been since the series launched. No matter how many shaders, textures, and polygons get changed, the basic bad bones remain.
 
I’m not talking about little details, rather the basic shape of the car being wrong because it was modeled from photos circa 2005 and intended for use on the original Xbox. Sticking with the Chevelle as an example, the entire nose of the Forza car is canted forward like the prow of a boat...has been since the series launched. No matter how many shaders, textures, and polygons get changed, the basic bad bones remain.
ah ok sorry a misunderstanding from me.
 
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