Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[Jezza819]

Do you automatically have a set of wet tires to use or do you have to buy them at some point? In some of my races today during damp conditions some in the field we're showing wet tires but others weren't.

In the finale of the C8 challenge at LeMans it starts to pour down on the last two laps and I would have liked to have those wets if they were available. Of course you take the chance like in real racing that you put the wets on and it doesn't get wet enough for them and you're a sitting duck for the non wet cars. But I was being so careful on that last lap but I didn't brake soon enough for the second Mulsanne chicane and ended up skidding far enough I had to reverse out and lost my 7 second lead. I would have liked to see what the wet tires would have done.

In that race I saw my first AI car get a time penalty. On the first lap right before the Dunlop bridge the leader got a .90 second penalty. They must have cut one of those corners in the chicane.

 

[DextroCat]

Do you automatically have a set of wet tires to use or do you have to buy them at some point? In some of my races today during damp conditions some in the field we're showing wet tires but others weren't.

In the finale of the C8 challenge at LeMans it starts to pour down on the last two laps and I would have liked to have those wets if they were available. Of course you take the chance like in real racing that you put the wets on and it doesn't get wet enough for them and you're a sitting duck for the non wet cars. But I was being so careful on that last lap but I didn't brake soon enough for the second Mulsanne chicane and ended up skidding far enough I had to reverse out and lost my 7 second lead. I would have liked to see what the wet tires would have done.

In that race I saw my first AI car get a time penalty. On the first lap right before the Dunlop bridge the leader got a .90 second penalty. They must have cut one of those corners in the chicane.

If you equip (you don’t exactly buy them…) “Racing” tires you get access to Hard Medium Soft and Wet tires all 4 that you change right before a race under Car->Fuel and Tires. Sport and Street Tires handle just fine in the wet, a little too fine if you ask me. So no extra purchase necessary. If it starts out raining it typically auto equips them but if you’re doing Free Play and you customize your car from the same menu you have to choose tire type again but like I said that only applies to Free Play.

 

[r_outsider]

I forgot to add that it is for PC. Not sure if Simhub can put overlays on Phone like it can on secondary displays and also i do not know it FM has the Data Out feature on xbox

Yeah, it's there. Don't exactly know if or how well it works but I'm sure going to have a crack at it!

 

[Jezza819]

If you equip (you don’t exactly buy them…) “Racing” tires you get access to Hard Medium Soft and Wet tires all 4 that you change right before a race under Car->Fuel and Tires. Sport and Street Tires handle just fine in the wet, a little too fine if you ask me. So no extra purchase necessary. If it starts out raining it typically auto equips them but if you’re doing Free Play and you customize your car from the same menu you have to choose tire type again but like I said that only applies to Free Play.

Ok now I understand. I've just been going with smaller tire improvements to try and keep the AI level closer to me. Also race tires are the most expensive and it takes a few races for me to get enough credits to go straight to race tires. But having wets available as an option would be the most important thing.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The online racing in this game is soo much better than GT7. You can do a bit of doorbashing without getting whacked with a penalty which is nice. However, if you overstep the mark, the game will punish you. Based on my observations, it's kept most drivers in line because I haven't had to deal with a heap of dirty tactics. This is what happens when you make a consistent penalty system that isn't stupid. I also have to mention the variety of events that are available at any given time. 5 classes with a rotating track roster is fantastic compared to GT7's paltry offerings. It really keeps things interesting.

 

[slthree]

The online racing in this game is soo much better than GT7. You can do a bit of doorbashing without getting whacked with a penalty which is nice. However, if you overstep the mark, the game will punish you. Based on my observations, it's kept most drivers in line because I haven't had to deal with a heap of dirty tactics. This is what happens when you make a consistent penalty system that isn't stupid. I also have to mention the variety of events that are available at any given time. 5 classes with a rotating track roster is fantastic compared to GT7's paltry offerings. It really keeps things interesting.

Completely agree with you.

Earlier in the thread somebody showed a video where they got pushed off the track purposely by a dirty driver who was mad that our forum member overtook him.

It was dirty and maybe it wasn't enough but he did receive a 5-second penalty for that action. That is more than somebody would get on GT7. I've been punted on GT7 numerous times and don't recall anybody getting a penalty for it

 

[UKMikey]

GT pro Emily Jones gives her (even handed IMO) take on the driving feel of FM and how it compares to her regular game for overtake.gg:



Ignore the clickbaity thumbnail btw. She doesn't declare a winner.

 

[slthree]

GT pro Emily Jones gives her (even handed IMO) take on the driving feel of FM and how it compares to her regular game for overtake.gg:



Ignore the clickbaity thumbnail btw. She doesn't declare a winner.

I like her and I especially like the content on this particular channel across all their content creators.

I saw this video and watched it a couple times before you posted it because I was thinking about posting it but it wasn't her best work and it wouldn't help somebody draw conclusion on whether they wanted to buy Forza Motorsport or not.

You did the best service to anybody on these forums when you said it's a clickbaity thumbnail. indeed, she doesn't declare a winner.

EDIT: The problem with Emily (and she straightforwardly said it herself) is that she's a GT7 competitive tournament driver and she doesn't really play Forza games and she had very little time with Forza Motorsport.

I would love for her to get a few weeks worth of game time in, maybe 20 to 30 hours and then hear what she had to say because it would be much more valuable.

 

[mynameis66]

Ah, you're right. This is the guy who compared the 787B headlight to Gran Turismo using two different sources of lighting on them.

I think his username says it all.

@UKMikey Theres a few youtube videos by not so well known tubers that give an unbiased view of FM2023,despite prefering other games.

 

[UKMikey]

I think his username says it all.

@UKMikey Theres a few youtube videos by not so well known tubers that give an unbiased view of FM2023,despite prefering other games.

Post them up if you like as I don't know who you're talking about.

 

[breeminator]

Ok now I understand. I've just been going with smaller tire improvements to try and keep the AI level closer to me. Also race tires are the most expensive and it takes a few races for me to get enough credits to go straight to race tires. But having wets available as an option would be the most important thing.

From my testing, you should only use wets if the game auto-equips them for you (you need race tyres for it to be able to do this). I've done the Track Exotics tour twice, once using softs for the Hakone race, and once using wets. It doesn't auto equip wets for that race. Later in the race it becomes significantly wet, and I felt the softs were noticeably lacking in grip. But when I did the race using wets, I was struggling for grip all race, and the one AI that had pulled ahead of me continued to lap faster than me, using non-wets, even when it was raining quite heavily. I think there is something a bit fake about the weather conditions but it's hard to know what is really going on as the game doesn't have a wetness indicator like GT7 has.

 

[Famine]

EDIT: The problem with Emily (and she straightforwardly said it herself) is that she's a GT7 competitive tournament driver and she doesn't really play Forza games and she had very little time with Forza Motorsport.

She's not just a competitive GT7 driver though. She's also a competitive iRacing driver, and a competitive Assetto Corsa driver, and a competitive Assetto Corsa Competizione driver, and a competitive rFactor 2 driver.

I'd trust her to get to grips with a new game's physics pretty quickly more than I'd trust me.

 

[breeminator]

She's not just a competitive GT7 driver though. She's also a competitive iRacing driver, and a competitive Assetto Corsa driver, and a competitive Assetto Corsa Competizione driver, and a competitive rFactor 2 driver.

I'd trust her to get to grips with a new game's physics pretty quickly more than I'd trust me.

I wouldn't say that someone being good at all those games will make them necessarily as good at another game. You do see people perform significantly differently across different games.

I'm not going to watch the video again to find her exact words, but as I recall, the gist of it was that FM is more forgiving of sliding than GT7, in terms of the impact on lap times. I've done quite a lot of rivals in FM now, and I feel that sliding is still pretty fatal to lap times, unless you're comparing against an already shoddy performance. For me, tuning a car to be just inside the limit of sliding gives me the fastest lap times. People complain about understeer, but I've found that if the car is tuned to the point of being able to oversteer through a corner simply by steering too much, I'm probably going to at some point steer too much, and the lap is ruined by the resulting slide (if comparing against a perfect (by my standards) taking of the same corner, obviously it can still beat another imperfect taking of the corner). I know aliens can have different preferences, I've driven tunes by aliens in other games where they clearly like the car being able to be pushed into oversteer with a full controller stick movement, as they have the skill to always make the correct partial movement of the stick and never oversteer. Either way, though, as far as I have been able to tell when I can see the performances of those aliens, they still don't slide when doing a perfect lap, they just achieve it differently, they can do it by never moving the stick too far rather than needing to tune it out.

Personally I don't feel like there is a huge difference between the two games in terms of size of time loss when you slide, but it wouldn't be an easy thing to test, you'd need someone who can do extremely consistent lap times without sliding who could also then choose to introduce a slide in one corner of similar severity in the two games to see how much time it adds to the lap. She seemed to be giving a more subjective impression as opposed to having done that rigorous testing herself.

Overall, there was plenty of what she said that I agreed with, but I felt she was trying incredibly hard to not offend players of either game.

 

[LumpiestFish]

I wonder what the licensing situation would be for some of the junior open wheel categories around the world? I imagine F2 is exclusive to the F1 games, but a Tatuus F3 or NZ TRS car would be great additions to the game. The loss of Indycar has really left a hole for modern Open Wheel cars in Forza.

 

[Famine]

I wouldn't say that someone being good at all those games will make them necessarily as good at another game. You do see people perform significantly differently across different games.

It's not a question of being good at it, but of being able to feel what the physics simulation is doing comparatively - and that comes with a breadth of experience. Pigeon-holing her as a "GT7 ... driver" does a great disservice to the extensive experience she has on multiple platforms.

While she clearly drives at a high level in multiple titles (also I forgot Rennsport; she's not part of ESL R1 [yet] but did race in the first Rennsport Summit) and has for a long time, you don't need to perform at a high level in any game to know what it's doing underneath.

I don't perform at a high level in any game but I'd like to think my cross-title experience, and significant real-world experience in cars across the performance spectrum helps me in that regard.

 

[PJTierney]

I forgot to add that it is for PC. Not sure if Simhub can put overlays on Phone like it can on secondary displays and also i do not know it FM has the Data Out feature on xbox

Xbox has Data Out, yes.

 

[breeminator]

you don't need to perform at a high level in any game to know what it's doing underneath.

I don't perform at a high level in any game but I'd like to think my cross-title experience, and significant real-world experience in cars across the performance spectrum helps me in that regard.

I totally agree, I feel like I'm much better at knowing what I should be doing than actually doing it. I can very easily see what aliens are doing better than me, I just lack the accuracy of movement of my fingers and thumbs to do it myself.

 

[Famine]

I totally agree, I feel like I'm much better at knowing what I should be doing than actually doing it. I can very easily see what aliens are doing better than me, I just lack the accuracy of movement of my fingers and thumbs to do it myself.

Knowing what's going on and exploiting it are very much talents that don't have to have any overlap

 

[mynameis66]

Post them up if you like as I don't know who you're talking about.

Doh! I knew you were going to ask.lol
These 2 are ones i looked at recently,


The second guy is pretty popular though and he only had a preview copy.Gameriot is another one,again pretty popular,I like,he seems to like most games and to me seems to give a fair opinion without going OTT.
Im sure there are loads more at the bottom of listings,ive looked at loads im dizzy.

 

[slthree]

She's not just a competitive GT7 driver though. She's also a competitive iRacing driver, and a competitive Assetto Corsa driver, and a competitive Assetto Corsa Competizione driver, and a competitive rFactor 2 driver.

I'm well aware she drives in numerous titles. She lists herself as an "esports driver", meaning she participates in several games. But, she chooses to only list GT7 on her Instagram bio and in most of the videos I've seen her in, she makes it clear that GT7 is where she hangs her hat. SHE, not I, says that GT (first Sport and now 7) is her primary focus.

She is incredibly talented and in a much better position to create content on racing games. The point was that, by her own admission, she has not logged a lot of time with Forza games in general and Forza Motorsport.

My original point stands that I would love for her to get much more time on the game so she can post more in depth impressions.

 

[Jumbone1]

Anyone else finding AI slow in the rain, even on level 8 it's easy to win by 15 seconds or so over 5-6 laps and some of them are running race wet tyres Vs my stock/street or sports. This is Classes A and below, not tried higher classes. They need a hurry up.

 

[SDSmurf]

AI are definitely slow in the rain. I can be 2 or 3 seconds a lap quicker in the dry, and then 6 to 7 seconds quicker in the wet.

 

[Morbid65]

I think there is something a bit fake about the weather conditions but it's hard to know what is really going on as the game doesn't have a wetness indicator like GT7 has.

Yeah I think they need to work on this, and open up controls to us a bit for free play/private lobbies.

It's pretty vague which tire you need to be on right now for a lot of players at a pretty good skill/experience level, so I can't imagine a lot of more casual players are getting along with it. I'm fine if they want to make it a little vague, as a big sign that says "YEAH IT'S WET BUT JUST USE THE SOFT TRUST ME BRO" would kinda take the "adventure" out of it a bit too, but they need a more intuitive way to figure it out than just looking at some rain drops and guessing whether it's bad enough to need wets.

One issue is the look of the surface itself. They seem to overdone the wet surface, as it looks like there is standing water on it when the slicks are still fine to use. Not a subtle or natural looking transition as it starts to rain really. The standing water doesn't seem to matter though either, as there is no splash or pull when you run through the puddles.

In private lobbies, you don't even get the grid thing to look at the track like career/Featured Multiplayer, you have to guess from pitlane which is even covered in some cases. It also doesn't appear to auto-equip wets like in Featured Multiplayer, or at least not consistently, as just tonight I did a race with a friend testing it out a bit and it put us both on slicks for a quite wet track.

It makes the "variable" weather feature not that useful for private lobby racing (and free play too I think?) as there isn't really any way to make an educated decision on which tire to start on. Tonight we tested doing a single lap as a sort of "reconnaissance lap" but found that every single time it changes the weather settings so the 1 lap has nothing to do with whatever race that will follow so that's useless... Or sorta useless, there is currently a bug where the first race after people join the lobby, they might not be able to see certain other players, so doing the 1-lapper before starting the actual race should make sure the grid is synced at least.

If they at least let us choose what the starting condition is for variable weather, it would allow us to have everyone start on a level playing field. It would be nice to have more control over it, even if we could just choose something like:

Starting condition: Clear/partly clear/rain/etc
Change time: early race/mid race/late race/random
Potential condition 1: clear/partly clear/rain/etc
Potential condition 1 chance: 10/20/30%/etc
Potential condition 2: clear/partly clear/rain/etc
Potential condition 2 chance: 10/20/30%/etc

Then you could set for example to start with cloudy skies, then mid-race have 20% chance of raining hard, and 50% chance of raining medium, and 30% chance of staying cloudy... or something like that. It would be enough options to make things unpredictable without just feeling totally random.

Some would argue "but sometimes it rains in real races when you don't expect it!" but that's kinda missing the point, as in basically every series you can walk out of the garage and look up, or pull up the radar on your phone to at least make an educated guess which tire to start with, as well as whether it's better to stay out a few laps longer and wait and see what the weather will do.

Since the weather isn't truly dynamic and appears to just be a modification of the transition system from FM7, I guess they can't really do a forecast like ACC and have it feel authentic, but they could still use the "Track condition: greasy/damp/etc" info before starting.

I dunno it's late and I'm tired so I'm just rambling I guess, tldr plz T10 make weather more fun to play with I love racing in the rain.

 

[CeeJay69]

GT pro Emily Jones gives her (even handed IMO) take on the driving feel of FM and how it compares to her regular game for overtake.gg:

Ignore the clickbaity thumbnail btw. She doesn't declare a winner.

I got recommended this the other day and I had a couple takeaways about the two games so figured I'd mention since it was posted here. I haven't played GT:S or GT7 so I'm not really sure if this conclusion is apt, as I'm PC only, but from the description of the differences in feeling on the wheel it seemed like she was saying FM handles oversteer/rear grip feedback better. Which is something I have very positive opinions on myself. I find a lot of sims to be borderline non-responsive when I oversteer, forcing me to heavily rely on the visual feedback instead. FM, ACC, and beamNG are the only games I know of that actually give me a feeling in the wheel when I oversteer. Maybe I'm trying to read between the lines too much but I feel like this was high praise based on how much I value this myself. Related to that I don't feel like she was saying being heavily punished for minor slides/corrections was a positive, since that would come off as an annoying feature to me.

Of coarse there's some aspects of GT7's wheel FFB that seemed better than FM, but that could be said of just about any sim out there. They all have their pros and cons and some things people personally weigh much more heavily over others. It's partly why some people like ACC over iRacing or the opposite. I think the comment about not wanting to offend anyone is pretty accurate but I also think there's a lot to take away from the video if you know what you like.

Some of the stuff is also just things we have talked about in this thread. Like the understeer in tunes. It is actually strange how much understeer they put into the tunes (my "doesn't feel like it was created by humans" opinion here). I don't really think this is something to be taken as a major negative against the game, like it's unfixable, just something players should know about because there is a way to fix it. It would be better if the tunes were balanced by default but it's not the cards we were dealt for whatever reason. Same for the awful default settings on most wheels. I don't know why they didn't give every "supported" wheel some default settings that should feel decent for that setup.

Overall I think it was a pretty positive overview of FM based on my own preferences. And I say this as somebody who, prior to FM releasing, was hoping that nvidia leak would come true and we would get GT7 on PC. After FM though I don't really think that's necessary as long as T10 follows through on the community's feedback.

 

[Jezza819]

Anyone else finding AI slow in the rain, even on level 8 it's easy to win by 15 seconds or so over 5-6 laps and some of them are running race wet tyres Vs my stock/street or sports. This is Classes A and below, not tried higher classes. They need a hurry up.

Yeah I had a 5 lap race yesterday at Watkins Glen full that went from light rain on lap 1 to a full downpour by lap 3 and I won by 24 seconds I think. Unless the rain gets so heavy that I also lose a ton of grip, I know I'm probably going to win.

From my testing, you should only use wets if the game auto-equips them for you (you need race tyres for it to be able to do this). I've done the Track Exotics tour twice, once using softs for the Hakone race, and once using wets. It doesn't auto equip wets for that race. Later in the race it becomes significantly wet, and I felt the softs were noticeably lacking in grip. But when I did the race using wets, I was struggling for grip all race, and the one AI that had pulled ahead of me continued to lap faster than me, using non-wets, even when it was raining quite heavily. I think there is something a bit fake about the weather conditions but it's hard to know what is really going on as the game doesn't have a wetness indicator like GT7 has.

So is it more beneficial to try and go straight to race tires as soon as possible in order to have wets in case you need them? That seems to be what the AI is doing.

Which brings up another incident from yesterday. Hot Hatch Legends challenge or whatever it's called. Last race I figure I might need to go to race tires in order to give myself a chance to win the championship as I was in 2nd place after 4 races against the super fast GLHS's. I think race tires were 1700 and it showed I had 1000 to use. I figured I would try to get race tires and if I couldn't afford them it would tell me. But it let me equip them anyway. If you have already upgraded tires say to Sports and spent 1000, are you getting credit for the 1000 and the race tires only cost you the difference?

 

[syphe]

So is it more beneficial to try and go straight to race tires as soon as possible in order to have wets in case you need them? That seems to be what the AI is doing.

I don't think it really matters, if you're not running race tyres you'll be just fine in the rain in my experience, you'll just get punished if you're on race slicks and it starts to pour down

 

[breeminator]

So is it more beneficial to try and go straight to race tires as soon as possible in order to have wets in case you need them? That seems to be what the AI is doing.

If you have already upgraded tires say to Sports and spent 1000, are you getting credit for the 1000 and the race tires only cost you the difference?

As far as I can tell so far, most tracks favour a very high grip build, so race tyres, weight reduction, and aero. Obviously Le Mans is an exception, as are other tracks to a lesser degree.

The car points work just like PI, the total spend depends only on the currently chosen parts, not what you chose previously. So yes, if you had sports tyres on and went to race tyres, it adds 700 to the total car points spent on that build because you're changing from a 1000 car point part to a 1700 car point part.

 

[cjsrt4]

Yeah, it's there. Don't exactly know if or how well it works but I'm sure going to have a crack at it!

I'm pretty sure SIMHUB just requires your console IP to connect and you can use a secondary screen for a dash. I used it for GT7 before playing in VR.

 

[Jezza819]

As far as I can tell so far, most tracks favour a very high grip build, so race tyres, weight reduction, and aero. Obviously Le Mans is an exception, as are other tracks to a lesser degree.

The car points work just like PI, the total spend depends only on the currently chosen parts, not what you chose previously. So yes, if you had sports tyres on and went to race tyres, it adds 700 to the total car points spent on that build because you're changing from a 1000 car point part to a 1700 car point part.

So when you see "available" and "used", you have to deduct how much you've used off of the part you're looking at in order to see if you have enough credits to get it?

 

[mynameis66]

So when you see "available" and "used", you have to deduct how much you've used off of the part you're looking at in order to see if you have enough credits to get it?

No,im pretty sure whats available is how much you have left to use,somebody chime in if ive got it wrong,I dont want to post duff info.If you dont have enough it shows up as a minus in red.
If im short on points,I quit the current race,run some laps in rivals until ive got enough car points,then go back to the race and add my parts.