Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread

[Beebo]

The comments complaining about this ACCESSIBILITY FEATURE really disgust me, T10 has opened the game up to plenty more people this way and we don't even have to use the features anyway. I really don't feel like their time has been wasted developing this, since racing games are still seen as niche and it's nice to see more people able to get into the game. I feel like the forza community in general has taken a nosedive ever since the game was available day 1 on gamepass.

There's also seriously some people on certain other sites talking about this like it's some conspiracy to get good PR for T10; I wish I was joking.

 

[fuchs171]

New FM pics. Seem to be from different stages of development as can be seen from the varying UI.
View attachment 1251465

They must change hud locations. Mirrors will be useless wiht these hud

 

[Apple Slipper]

No surprisigly, some people on twitter are trashing the game for talk about the ACESSEBILITY FEATURE of the game

Racing Game community sometimes disgusts me

Yeah, the racing game community is quite ableist at times. Absolutely disgusting behaviour.

 

[whannel]

Definitely, anywhere designed in the real world that considered accessibility makes life better for all. Hopefully all related areas outside of games become more inclusive too - Web Content Accessibility Guidelines on all websites etc, I expect these guidelines could be used to help make all in-game and in-console menus better to navigate with things easier for every user to find. Sadly both in the real world and with web-based guidance too much of it is only a guideline rather than a law, so far.

On the audio front, with driving games in mind there's a ton of stuff devs must be able to improve upon - 3D audio or virtual 3D surround I reckon could be used even to simulate G forces for instance with sounds behind us swinging from side to side, noticeable in the real world with stuff in the boot or loose items in the back sliding around. I imagine everything in a race setup is pretty tightly attached but maybe less so after a crash, including shattered glass movement could be fun. Even just creaking sounds moving about as the weight transfers could be a useful indicator.

Road surface noise seems to be one that's lacking in any game I've played, in real driving situations any bump or even a 'ramp' shakes the whole car extremely loudly, particularly in the low end thuds but there's high end rattles too that games don't seem to bother with? There must be a ton of useful hints as to what's going on with a car audio could assist with.

 

[SimTourist]

For me it's the car handling they have to radically overhaul for this game because if there's one differentiator between this and Gran Turismo that means I'll always choose GT over Forza it's that I just like the way GT handles so much better. I find the handling in Forza frustrating - no grip, front tyres scrabbling for grip as the car skates and understeers across the track....I just don't like it or find it fun. And having played games like AC I don't even think its realistic. Racing cars stick to the road and let you attack, in Forza they drive like they're on Morris Minor tyres. Maybe it's just me. Dunno.

But even if it is, I really don't find FM7 much fun to play and am hoping this offers a completely overhauled driving experience. Forza has always been so good with the car list, the circuits, the sheer number of things you can do, but the underlying gameplay just doesn't do much for me.

They've ruined the physics with Forza Motorsport 5 and never fixed them afterwards, in Forza 4 I've spent hours just hot lapping because the physics were the perfect balance between sim and arcade with nicely grippy tires and you could feel the differences between cars and it was fairly easy to drive on edge without sliding around like an idiot, after transitioning to xbox one the physics have become strange, possibly to cater to drifting youtubers or whatever with every car sliding around all over the place. Just a mess and never felt right, and people that have never played 360 forzas and haven't played them in a while will tell that forza was always like this, but that's not true, in fact Forza 3 was almost too grippy, Forza 4 struck the perfect balance and after that it's gone down the toilet. It's not fun and it's not realistic, so who is it made for?

 

[skazz]

Huh? Forza Motorsport 3 was too grippy?

I remember driving modern prototypes around ovals in FM3 and having to cater for insane oversteer constantly. Almost all cars had a tendency to lose the back end far too easily. Grippy is not a word I would ever use to describe FM3.

Personally if I compare FM4 and FM7 I definitely prefer the FM7 physics. It's still overly easy to hold slides compared to more proper sims, still easily allows you to hang the tail out when you want, but the inherent oversteer has been dialled down to more sane amounts as the series has progressed.

 

[SimTourist]

Huh? Forza Motorsport 3 was too grippy?

I remember driving modern prototypes around ovals in FM3 and having to cater for insane oversteer constantly. Almost all cars had a tendency to lose the back end far too easily. Grippy is not a word I would ever use to describe FM3.

Personally if I compare FM4 and FM7 I definitely prefer the FM7 physics. It's still overly easy to hold slides compared to more proper sims, still easily allows you to hang the tail out when you want, but the inherent oversteer has been dialled down to more sane amounts as the series has progressed.

Well, I dunno man, I even fired my old 360 some time ago and going between FM7 and FM4, I enjoy the driving much more on FM4, not to mention much better and snappier menus, better music and the whole experience feels classy, FM7 just feels kinda cheap in a weird way, I don't know how to explain it. My only wish in gaming would be to have Forza 4 on Series X with 4k graphics upgrade and quick loading, that game was forza at it's finest.

 

[UKMikey]

Forza 4 had the best rain physics. They were even better at night, you could really feel it through the rumble triggers #solidtake

 

[nukleabomb]

I remember having a 12c with 903hp pretending to be a p1 in fm4 back in 2014, because I didn't have an XOne for fm5. It was pretty easy to handle, even though it should have understeered to hell because it was on stock tire width (with street tires) and also should have on throttle oversteer because the power should have overwhelmed the rear. But no. It just was easy to drive.

Even muscle cars drove pretty flat, even though the camera tried to convince you otherwise.

My next fm was fm6, and that brought a huge upgrade in the form of steering and throttle response. Cars still felt flat but did oversteer a lot more on power atleast.


Fm7 had very clear improvement in controller vibration as well as weight transfer. Torque cars would lift up the front of a car ( a little too much on the 930 turbo) and braking could bottom out the front on suvs and muscle cars. It wasn't perfect or even close, but the were fun because cars drove like caricatures of themselves. Also yes, the default tunes on most racecars are in "very safe understeer" class. You can push a lot harder by tuning them.


I know fh5 is much more arcade than fm, but it has even better haptics. It now has a clear defined vibration from engine revs and also has better directional vibration (4 rumble motors on the Xbox series controller) for braking and traction loss. Fh5 also has better gradual braking feel than fm7. Although muted and slightly nerfed, fh5 also handles stiff suspensions better. It is very notable on the TCR cars.

 

[skazz]

Yeah, I'm really hoping those FH5 controller improvements make it over to FM8 properly. Here's hoping!

 

[m355y]

I must say, I’m in agreement about FH7 (and 6) feeling “cheap”, that’s exactly how I’d put it too. In GT you can really push and perfect your lines, there’s so much fun and satisfaction to be had in just hot-lapping trying to shave a second off your Nordschleife lap, trying to match your LMP1 times in a Super Formula car, dealing with completely different handling vehicles safe in the knowledge that the global physics are still similar enough to make it feel….logical. In Forza I think the road cars are really good fun, the way you can make quick corrections and use the slides to your advantage, but I feel like all the cars handle like road cars somehow, and for example an open wheeler through the esses at Suzuka - in GT it really bites and let’s you feel the downforce, in Forza you’re probably sliding off the track and pressing rewind three times.

I’ve never really thought about it before, but I reckon all that just means I’m unashamedly in team Gran Turismo. And yet - there is so much stuff Forza does really well, GT restricts you to play the game in the way PD say you’ll play it while Forza offers a sandbox experience where you can kind of do it however you want, which is easily the approach that I like better. So I’ll still buy FM8 or whatever they’ll call it and I’ll still get plenty of enjoyment out of it, I just can imagine ever wanting to play it just for the joy of driving in the way that I can easily put an hour into a time trial in GT just because it’s fun.

 

[McLaren]

The comments complaining about this ACCESSIBILITY FEATURE really disgust me, T10 has opened the game up to plenty more people this way and we don't even have to use the features anyway. I really don't feel like their time has been wasted developing this, since racing games are still seen as niche and it's nice to see more people able to get into the game. I feel like the forza community in general has taken a nosedive ever since the game was available day 1 on gamepass.

There's also seriously some people on certain other sites talking about this like it's some conspiracy to get good PR for T10; I wish I was joking.

Good PR for T10? I feel like MS as a whole has made it a point to showcase that the console is made to be accessible for all. I’m confident I’ve seen them advertise 2 or so accessory controllers that are made for handicap folks to work with multiple games.

 

[Apple Slipper]

Good PR for T10? I feel like MS as a whole has made it a point to showcase that the console is made to be accessible for all. I’m confident I’ve seen them advertise 2 or so accessory controllers that are made for handicap folks to work with multiple games.

Playground Games and Turn 10 Studios also collaborated with Special Effect (UK) to help cater to people with disabilities.

 

[Morbid65]

It's not really that the default tunes are understeery in Forza, it's more that you can't get front end bite, and In trying to make the car rotate you will do things you couldn't get away with in pretty much any other sim-ish game. Most basic tunes people make in FM7 are focused on front end grip and the de facto setups for GT/touring cars/road cars with aero is max front minimum rear, and there are a lot of setups out there running 1/40 on swaybars to try to help rotation. As I mentioned before, since the front doesn't bite and you can't really make it, sometimes you need to make the rear of the car technically worse (from a grip/setup perspective) to cheese the car into rotating.

It's a little different for people on the wheel though as they can't deal with the oversteer you have to create by loosening up the rear as easily as people on controller can, but even the wheel users do some pretty wacky stuff to be fast.

 

[whannel]

Playground Games and Turn 10 Studios also collaborated with Special Effect (UK) to help cater to people with disabilities.

Looks like FM7 also promoted accessible eSports and still work in this area, hopefully FM8 (and the ESL) keep this up.

Announcing 2020 Special Olympics Xbox Virtual Gaming Event

Back in 2018, Xbox hosted the first video gaming tournament at a Special Olympics event during Special Olympics USA Games held in Seattle, Washington. Special Olympics athletes from four states competed head-to-head at the University of Washington and showed us the passion that existed for such an…

www.specialolympics.org

I expect when they scan and photo document race tracks they'll see all the designated accessible seating areas trackside, not sure if I've spotted many disabled fans in computer games like we see on TV, maybe they'll pick up on it soon too. Would be good to see some wheelchair users crowdsurfing in Horizon like we see at real world music festivals.

On the Special Olympics front, the first Paralympic Games computer game appears to have been in 2021, a free MMO style mobile release. Seems slow for a major event which at least here in the UK is on national TV with impactful billboard ads via Channel 4. Kinda surprised Sega and Nintendo haven't yet brought it to their Olympics and Mario/Sonic franchises, maybe we'll get it for 2024. I've been trying to source a decent next-gen multi-sport game to replace Track and Field. Maybe EA and 2K could up their games where possible here too.

First Paralympic video game to be created!

“The Pegasus Dream Tour” launches worldwide in 2020

www.paralympic.org

Logitech's dual-clutch wheel mentioned having uses for people with reduced mobility who may prefer hand controls, my 4 year old son certainly makes use of those for Farming Simulator where he can't yet reach the pedals.

 

[meganinja]

a free MMO style mobile release. Seems slow

It was not any Mobile MMO, it was a Anime Style MMO, produced by the director of Monster Rancher, Original Crisis Core: FINAL FANTASY VII and FINAL FANTASY XV

Sadly it was not sucessful and closed early 2022

 

[inCloud]

GMTK has brilliant series about why accessibility design is great for everyone.

 

[FoxMulder]

The comments complaining about this ACCESSIBILITY FEATURE really disgust me, T10 has opened the game up to plenty more people this way and we don't even have to use the features anyway. I really don't feel like their time has been wasted developing this, since racing games are still seen as niche and it's nice to see more people able to get into the game. I feel like the forza community in general has taken a nosedive ever since the game was available day 1 on gamepass.

There's also seriously some people on certain other sites talking about this like it's some conspiracy to get good PR for T10; I wish I was joking.

It is a nice feature and all, but literally anything about this game will be complained about with how little of it they’ve actually shown or talked about so far.

 

[MagpieRacer]

It is a nice feature and all, but literally anything about this game will be complained about with how little of it they’ve actually shown or talked about so far.

Complaint about how little we have seen is one thing, degrading and demoralising disabled players and mocking accessibility features is way beyond that, it's disgraceful.

 

[Imari]

Some of those accessibility options might be useful for able-bodied players too. In fact, if some of the features are good enough (like the gearshift detection sound), you may even see them become optimal strategies.

A proximity sound for when cars are nearby may be useful for people playing in cockpit view for example to avoid collisions.

This was my thought. I have no vision problems at all, but I'm interested in trying offloading some of the information flow in racing to audio just to see if it feels better.

It's going to be great for the blind and partially sighted community, but everyone potentially gains from this as it's looking at UI in a way that nobody has ever bothered to before for racing games.

Yeah, the racing game community is quite ableist at times. Absolutely disgusting behaviour.

The racing game community is very elitist, especially the sim racing community. I think the ableism is just an offshoot of that. Look at the **** that anyone who dares to drive with the racing line on gets.

These people are against anyone who plays differently to them, and that happens by default to include anyone who due to disability needs to use different controls or assists simply to access the game. It's ableist behaviour, but I'm not sure it's (mostly) intentionally ableist. It's just assholes doing their thing and happening to also catch disabled people on the way.

As I mentioned before, since the front doesn't bite and you can't really make it, sometimes you need to make the rear of the car technically worse (from a grip/setup perspective) to cheese the car into rotating.

That's how real tuning works sometimes too. You can't always just add grip to one end. Sometimes you have to take it away from the other to get the balance you need.

 

[FT-1]

This was my thought. I have no vision problems at all, but I'm interested in trying offloading some of the information flow in racing to audio just to see if it feels better.

It's going to be great for the blind and partially sighted community, but everyone potentially gains from this as it's looking at UI in a way that nobody has ever bothered to before for racing games.

The racing game community is very elitist, especially the sim racing community. I think the ableism is just an offshoot of that. Look at the **** that anyone who dares to drive with the racing line on gets.

This is a great example of an accessibility feature which I have grown to love, even as someone who has no known disability. When you are doing lengthy races on a mundane track, it can be easy to zone out and miss braking zones, and suddenly all the progress you've made in a race goes to waste. As a result, I find myself turning on driving lines in games since salient and colour-changing lines on the track help to alleviate this significantly (apart from in rally games, since I find it easier to pay attention to co-driver callouts).

I also appreciate that games like the NFS Shift series and Project CARS 3 have created new ways to implement driving lines/markers and turn corner mastery into a little mini-game during races.

In an era where we are met with diminishing returns for chasing authenticity, I welcome innovations towards accessibility. As you said, it is very much possible that people of any ability could find a new way to enjoy racing games through these features. 👍

 

[Mirai]

It’s amazing how far accessibility has come in gaming
Previously the only way blind people could play racing games was have a friend tell them where to go and what to do, but now we have dedicated assists designed specifically for the visually impaired. And as Imari said, some of these might also be useful for sighted players with other disabilities, perhaps. The shift indicator in particular reminds me of one of the accessibility options in the Codemasters F1 games.

 

[PJTierney]

I also appreciate that games like the NFS Shift series and Project CARS 3 have created new ways to implement driving lines/markers and turn corner mastery into a little mini-game during races.

The corner mastery system is great, much better than following a green line around the track as there’s still some decision making to be done.

The shift indicator in particular reminds me of one of the accessibility options in the Codemasters F1 games.

It’s not even an accessibility feature, necessarily. Real-world F1 drivers have shift tones play in their race helmet as optimal shift timing can gain you a few hundredths per lap.

 

[meganinja]

The racing game community is very elitist, especially the sim racing community. I think the ableism is just an offshoot of that. Look at the **** that anyone who dares to drive with the racing line on gets.

They are one of the reasons racing games pretty much nowadays, they confuse difficulty with realism, and any type of new idea that isnt what they want or goes with their vision of """"""""""""""""""""""""realism""""""""""""""""""""""" its immeditally trashed into obivilion or pubically ashamed on the internet

Go see the another thread about this theme here, there was litteraly a random person implying that the new Forza was less realistic than Gran Turismo 7 beacuse T10 dared to make a acessibility feature for blind people on the new game

Also, there were variouspeople on twitter that was showing this as exemple of Forza "Catering to the wrong people" only beacuse T10 dared to put a easy-to-implement feature into to game

Like the feature is mostly a advanced glorificated TTS, it isnt that hard to put in the game, but there is still people saying that was a "time wasted" or some stupid thing like that

I am glad that i found this piece of decent place on internet beacuse i was getting crazy at those comments being endlessly commented without nobody to critique them and nobody that supports a different point of view of usual simracer and of majority people that produce content on internet that repeats this point of view beacuse they want the views or beacuse they really trully think that

I must admit this is pretty much anxiety inducing sometimes

This is a great example of an accessibility feature which I have grown to love, even as someone who has no known disability. When you are doing lengthy races on a mundane track, it can be easy to zone out and miss braking zones, and suddenly all the progress you've made in a race goes to waste. As a result, I find myself turning on driving lines in games since salient and colour-changing lines on the track help to alleviate this significantly (apart from in rally games, since I find it easier to pay attention to co-driver callouts).

I tend to play racing games on Automatic (except Drag Racing) beacuse my dyslexia dont let me stay focused on exchange gears as drives, i need focus on a thing or another

Also i use brakes lines (not full lines, just the brakes lines) beacuse they are great refecence points of how to drive consistaly, depending of the track it helps to remember where i can brake a bit later and helps my peformance as a driver

I also appreciate that games like the NFS Shift series and Project CARS 3 have created new ways to implement driving lines/markers and turn corner mastery into a little mini-game during races.

The corner mastery system is great, much better than following a green line around the track as there’s still some decision making to be done.

I wish Forza tried back the idea of corner perfection with some enhanced UI that showed the right points to brake that looked like NASCAR´s restart zone

i think that wouldnt be hard to implement and would be really good visual to check where you could brake late to get some good passing or good times

 

[UKMikey]

I tend to play racing games on Automatic (except Drag Racing) beacuse my dyslexia dont let me stay focused on exchange gears as drives, i need focus on a thing or another

If you don't mind me saying so, for someone who has dyslexia and whose first language is presumably português brasileiro, your English is pretty damn great.

 

[Famine]

Go see the another thread about this theme here, there was litteraly a random person implying that the new Forza was less realistic than Gran Turismo 7 beacuse T10 dared to make a acessibility feature for blind people on the new game

I think you mis-interpreted; the user who posted plays a lot more Forza - and hasn't made a post in any Gran Turismo forum here in about a year (and that was a post about Forza). They post about Forza, Need for Speed, GRID, and TDU Solar Crown.

The comment was about the sort of person who would find the feature funny enough to just post a laughing emoji, not an agreement.

All that aside, I don't really know why we need to bring other sites' *****y takes on it to this one. Leave them to dwell in their own stupidity and ignorance; we don't need it polluting GTPlanet too.


Also I found the use of language in the video and press release really... odd, being someone who's very much attuned to the world of people with disabilities; I'm guessing British language is a little different from American language (where they still use "handicap/handicapped" as a term). That's why I extensively rewrote it for my article.

 

[FPV MIC]

GMTK has brilliant series about why accessibility design is great for everyone.

Great series. 👍

As an above knee amputee of my right leg there's one feature I would love to see in Forza, and in fact it's something all driving games should include, a pedal swap feature. This would be so easy to incorporate and as no games have it I'm restricted to Thrustmaster wheel/pedal sets so I can use the invert feature (but not inverting) to swap the accelerator to the left pedal.

With a simple system to swap pedal inputs, I'd gain access to all wheel manufacturers product lines.

 

[Beezer215]

Great series. 👍

As an above knee amputee of my right leg there's one feature I would love to see in Forza, and in fact it's something all driving games should include, a pedal swap feature. This would be so easy to incorporate and as no games have it I'm restricted to Thrustmaster wheel/pedal sets so I can use the invert feature (but not inverting) to swap the accelerator to the left pedal.

With a simple system to swap pedal inputs, I'd gain access to all wheel manufacturers product lines.

Can't you just go with Heusinkvelds or similar single pedal options and put them wherever you want? I can also map gas and brake on the Fanatec advanced paddle module on the analogue levers. I wouldn't think you're limited to Thrustmaster at all.

 

[FPV MIC]

Can't you just go with Heusinkvelds or similar single pedal options and put them wherever you want? I can also map gas and brake on the Fanatec advanced paddle module on the analogue levers. I wouldn't think you're limited to Thrustmaster at all.

Not on console, no unfortunately. I'd also rather keep to using my left foot to drive like I do in real life rather than use hand controls. Racing games have helped to keep me sharp with my left foot usage after so many years of right foot muscle memory.

Edit: I should also mention I have friends come over too so an easy swap ability is a must.

 

[Beezer215]

I have a DD2 and Heusinkvelds. Drivehub works whenever I want to remember how horrible GT7 is.