Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Terronium-12
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- 2,235
- MI
It's odd to say something like what makes Forza better. Better is subjective. The answer could be as simple as some of us with full sim rigs and triples with DD wheel bases and Veld Sprints don't want to have to use a drivehub just to use our gear. I mean outside of the usual; PC runs it better, smoother gameplay, visuals, mods, whatnot, there are good reasons.
I have 4 sims that I use, AC, ACC, rF2, AMS2. I have others but use these the most. It's four. Each offers something that is unique to itself.
What Forza offers is the ability to chill out and still race but not take it so seriously. I like to maybe pop some tops and take an edible and have genuine fun with a more simplified physics model and forgiving gameplay. Forza also has structure I can follow, whether it's finishing the career championships or collecting cars, it takes some work to progress.
When I'm doing an hour long race in AMS2 and after 55 minutes of racing, working to the front of the pack, if you bin it in a corner, it's race over. Devastation. All that work tossed because you lost focus. Just like in real life, that's a sim for you. There's no rewind button. When I want serious, I have serious and when I want play, I have play.
So instead of 4 I use regularly, I can deal with 5. I'm done with GT7, so a replacement that runs on the same box as everything else is a nice welcome for me.
- 1,959
- Sweden
- 2,235
- MI
I recently acquired a copy of FM7 and it feels a lot better on my wheel than GT7. Fanatec DD2. There is a lot more information about tire feel and suspension weight transfer that GT7 is lacking. Not to mention the ever present FFB clipping in GT7 with any car that has downforce while taking a corner. I wouldn't say that FM7 is that behind of GT7 in physics. For the date they both came out at for sure.
One problem FM7 has is the "too easy" syndrome on a lot of cars, the first group that comes to mind is the Birth of Grand Prix (?) class. I was in the Auto Union and it is way too easy for to drive for a bathtub with that engine in it. The tyres don't feel like bias ply tyres. The car feels like it has downforce where none is present. But, it adds accessibility to these types of cars for the broader audience of these games. A lot of people simply would use these cars or spend the amount of time practicing with it in order to master it's feel.
GT7 does a lot of this as well. The cars do drive smoother after the latest update, not sure why GT7, which is basically just Sport 2.0 needed to have 3-4 major physics changes after all those years of development and what should have been testing but I guess that happens. Drive any of the Group C cars in GT7 and not only do they just feel the same, they are also ridiculously accessible to the masses when you can clearly see in real life onboards that these were a handful to drive.
I give FM7 some credit actually for having telemetry and having a decent FFB with an array of settings. That allows me to get a fine tailored experience to my wheel. I would be hard pressed to believe that someone with a wheel would have worse feel on FM7 than on GT7 with it's measly two FFB settings they gave us.
- 1,959
- Sweden
I dont agree about gt7 being a sport 2,0 they have been a lot of improvments since sport in my opinion, and biggest one is to actully have the option with more customize options, witch sport lacked, i think each cars feels much more different in gt7 campared to fm7 where much more cars feels almost the same,
Hopefully thats something that will improve on the new motorsport,
One thing i can give credit for both gran turismo and forza motorsport, is how good they actully work on controllers campared to true sims on market, witch are offen terrible if you dont have wheel,
I am buying motorsport day one becouse i like what they have done with career mode, i am not to bothered with sim physics becouse i am going to play with controller, hopefully the progression is so you begin with slow car and progress up as you go,
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- 225
- United Kingdom
Having not had an Xbox since 360, was keen to see what Forza brought to the table. Also, I prefer to play single player/offline races, at my own pace and at hours which aren't necessarily great for finding online races.
Had a toxic relationship with Project Cars 2 on PlayStation (I wanted to move it, but it was so broken) so didn't want to pick that up again on PC. I played the original AC on PlayStation and the career mode just didn't have the same polish etc that something like Forza does.
As for ACC, I'm not overly fond of Stephen Ratel at the SRO organisation as a whole, so while it might be great, it's just not for me.
Hope that helps
UKMikey
Premium
- 18,160
- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
deep breath...
This is called conflation. You appear to be confusing two different issues.
If GT7 feels better on a wheel than FM7 that'd have everything to do with how well they implemented wheel control and nothing to do with how the cars react to external stimuli on track. It's an interface issue, not a physics issue.
Bad physics would affect both wheel and pad users.
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- 2,235
- MI
Not to try and stray off topic but GT7 is GT Sport with some weather and some car tuning parts. What else is it? Same Hud, same cars, same models, same tracks. What am I missing? The horrible Menu Book cafe "career mode" that should be abandoned and completely replaced? That's an unwelcomed new feature I suppose.
Sure they added content but why am I reading that lobbies are even worse than Sport? In fact, why do I read on this very forum that people wish a few areas of the game were back like it was on Sport? It seems that people who are impressed with GT7 are the people who have owned nothing but PlayStation their entire life. Sure, maybe it's the best Gran Turismo out of all of them (maybe, GT4 might still get more votes there) but what is that really saying? Especially for people who have tried the forbidden fruit outside of what's available on Playstation let alone consoles all together.
- 1,959
- Sweden
I dont want to stay off topic either yes all cars that was in in sport, was carried over but there is still with all updates now about 120-130 more cars, they have not added many tracks but its still almost doubled on what forza will launch with, 3 has been added after launch, 4 more than sport on launch, i have owned pretty much all the forzas and gran turismo games, and plenty of enjoyment of both series, both was best at their 4th game, the menu book system sucks i am not going to lie, but they do some other things really well like wheather, customazion gt7 is still the only racing game i seen where the exhaust changes when you upgrade it, forza still looks like it stock exhaust even when fully upgraded, car models gt7 is the best in the buisness, forza uses plenty of poorly car models and it dosen’t seem to change with the new forza motorsport, both series has it advantages and disadvantages in different aspects, i am just glad we have more racing games this year to enjoy,
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- 3,958
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
I don't think any of us expect the FM2023 track list to stay at 20 tracks for long.
They have already committed to tracks being added, and FM7 has a large collection of laser scanned tracks which just need some updating (tree models, trackside density, etc...) and being fitted into the FM2023 lighting model.
Who knows... it might even be as easy as the DiRT 1.0 tracks being added into DiRT 2.0 in a big post-launch update (assuming they get the licensing sorted)?
They have already committed to tracks being added, and FM7 has a large collection of laser scanned tracks which just need some updating (tree models, trackside density, etc...) and being fitted into the FM2023 lighting model.
Who knows... it might even be as easy as the DiRT 1.0 tracks being added into DiRT 2.0 in a big post-launch update (assuming they get the licensing sorted)?
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- 4,038
- United States
- 1,441
- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
- 1,386
- Virginia
- FordGT40Guy
- FordGTGuy
I've never seen a track racer with environments so pack with life and detail. Clearly they are putting much more effort into every track that goes into the game and that takes time.
They confirmed that new tracks and cars will be added after release.
They confirmed that new tracks and cars will be added after release.
- 766
- Brazil
Its pretty common nowadays in racing games add tracks for free and use the cars as paid DLC
i dont doubt that, on first 6 months of the game life cycle, we see some new tracks
I think that some tracks wont show up again
Dubai and Homestead Miami are two that come on my mind, should have others tho
- 586
- United States
Yeah I kinda don't see them bringing back the other FM7 fantasy tracks. Since Esaki specifically mentioned acknowledging that their recent batch of fantasy tracks were graphics showcases first and race tracks second, and that Hakone was going to break that trend, I kinda don't imagine they will drag back Alps, Rio, Prague, or Dubai... and I'm a little mixed on that.
One exception would be a return of Dubai City layout, kinda how FM3 had Rally di Pasitano and then FM4 only had the little Amalfi Coast layout. The full version sucks and the City layout has some dangers that should be re-engineered a little by moving walls a bit, but it's a fantastic track for BTCC/TCR style touring cars, and it would be cool to see it at night with the airport lit up and the city skyline off T1.
Will also miss Rio strangely. FM1 Rio was certainly a better racetrack while FM7 Rio is a death trap that often has hilariously bad online lobby races, but with Forza's very forgiving handling model, it stands out as one of just a few tracks you can't drive 110% at all the time, and nailing a lap there is very satisfying. Also, in the right kind of cars at least, it can have pretty exciting races because there is always a risk/reward for pushing since most people who are smart are leaving a little something in reserve.
Alps is awful though, Prague is a pretty big meh, Dubai full is lame, so those I won't miss. Wish they would have deleted Maple Valley as well, it was the worst of the FM1 fantasy circuits so the fact that it's the only one we have is annoying, plus it's just a bad race track full of noob traps that makes racing there with anyone but the most sensible/skilled/trustworthy drivers either a total disaster or just boring as hell because everyone flies off the track and spaces the field out so it becomes hotlapping.
One exception would be a return of Dubai City layout, kinda how FM3 had Rally di Pasitano and then FM4 only had the little Amalfi Coast layout. The full version sucks and the City layout has some dangers that should be re-engineered a little by moving walls a bit, but it's a fantastic track for BTCC/TCR style touring cars, and it would be cool to see it at night with the airport lit up and the city skyline off T1.
Will also miss Rio strangely. FM1 Rio was certainly a better racetrack while FM7 Rio is a death trap that often has hilariously bad online lobby races, but with Forza's very forgiving handling model, it stands out as one of just a few tracks you can't drive 110% at all the time, and nailing a lap there is very satisfying. Also, in the right kind of cars at least, it can have pretty exciting races because there is always a risk/reward for pushing since most people who are smart are leaving a little something in reserve.
Alps is awful though, Prague is a pretty big meh, Dubai full is lame, so those I won't miss. Wish they would have deleted Maple Valley as well, it was the worst of the FM1 fantasy circuits so the fact that it's the only one we have is annoying, plus it's just a bad race track full of noob traps that makes racing there with anyone but the most sensible/skilled/trustworthy drivers either a total disaster or just boring as hell because everyone flies off the track and spaces the field out so it becomes hotlapping.
- 586
- United States
Double post I guess, and getting a little off-topic, but I missed this earlier.
I've been doing multiplayer league type racing for almost 20 years now, and I've only ever been in one league for a sim or simcade title that didn't have at least a few beginners or people more at an "amateur" level. Particularly on the sim side of things, most leagues have more beginners than "pros" from my experience. I've seen a few that tried to be more "pro" but they never even got off the ground as most players don't fall into that category and lots of the better drivers got to where they are by being a beginner in a league so they don't like the idea of not letting people in.
Few leagues out there will care how fast you are, they just want you to race/drive clean and do your best to be safe (aka no unsafe rejoins, respect the pit exit lines, no crazy high risk moves, etc). People are quite understanding that it can be daunting and many are willing to practice with you and share advice/tricks, so you can learn much faster and have more fun while learning by playing with a group where you can just ask stuff like "what gear are you guys taking this corner in?" or you can follow them and learn their lines or where their braking point is.
Public lobby multiplayer is pretty clogged up with GT3 at Monza/Spa and AC does have a ton of (pretty toxic from my experience) drifterbros, but the leagues are mostly people who want to get away from that stuff... Although there is still is waaaaay too much GT3 for my taste. You will probably have to join a few before you find one you feel like you fit in with well, which can be kinda annoying and/or time consuming. Like any group of people, they all have their own little "culture" with some being some being more serious, some being very laid back, some very carefully and thoughtfully regulated, some that they just kinda pick stuff and race it, some that are very close-knit and some that are more open, and so on.
Just based on the fact that you are concerned about it, I can guarantee you are more competent than some drivers running leagues, so I'd recommend just going on the hunt a bit and try some out. When you find a group you enjoy racing with it makes the hunt worth it, and you will wonder why you didn't start looking sooner. It doesn't need a big commitment, just join up and run a couple of races (assuming they allow partial-season entries, which most do). If it's fun, stick around, but if it doesn't feel like your crowd, move on. Many of the people running in them also run in other ones, so they might be able to direct you to another one to try.
There's some misconception about leagues being "esports" things or something only "pros" do and that they require a ton of free time to practice constantly, but that's not at all the case. There are a few pretty elite leagues out there of course but they are certainly not even close the majority and are generally pretty private, and yeah if you want to be "pro" you have to spend lots of time practicing, but most leagues are just a mix of players who like cars and racing and got tired of getting crashed into in public lobbies by people who don't care.
I've been doing multiplayer league type racing for almost 20 years now, and I've only ever been in one league for a sim or simcade title that didn't have at least a few beginners or people more at an "amateur" level. Particularly on the sim side of things, most leagues have more beginners than "pros" from my experience. I've seen a few that tried to be more "pro" but they never even got off the ground as most players don't fall into that category and lots of the better drivers got to where they are by being a beginner in a league so they don't like the idea of not letting people in.
Few leagues out there will care how fast you are, they just want you to race/drive clean and do your best to be safe (aka no unsafe rejoins, respect the pit exit lines, no crazy high risk moves, etc). People are quite understanding that it can be daunting and many are willing to practice with you and share advice/tricks, so you can learn much faster and have more fun while learning by playing with a group where you can just ask stuff like "what gear are you guys taking this corner in?" or you can follow them and learn their lines or where their braking point is.
Public lobby multiplayer is pretty clogged up with GT3 at Monza/Spa and AC does have a ton of (pretty toxic from my experience) drifterbros, but the leagues are mostly people who want to get away from that stuff... Although there is still is waaaaay too much GT3 for my taste. You will probably have to join a few before you find one you feel like you fit in with well, which can be kinda annoying and/or time consuming. Like any group of people, they all have their own little "culture" with some being some being more serious, some being very laid back, some very carefully and thoughtfully regulated, some that they just kinda pick stuff and race it, some that are very close-knit and some that are more open, and so on.
Just based on the fact that you are concerned about it, I can guarantee you are more competent than some drivers running leagues, so I'd recommend just going on the hunt a bit and try some out. When you find a group you enjoy racing with it makes the hunt worth it, and you will wonder why you didn't start looking sooner. It doesn't need a big commitment, just join up and run a couple of races (assuming they allow partial-season entries, which most do). If it's fun, stick around, but if it doesn't feel like your crowd, move on. Many of the people running in them also run in other ones, so they might be able to direct you to another one to try.
- 573
- France
- SUTempest
A career mode that isn't nonexistent.
Assetto Corsa is amazing for pure car feel and modding, but it's a time attack simulator more than anything for me. Or a "cruise around Tokyo" simulator when I feel like booting up Shutoko Highway and the Wangan Midnight soundtrack. (it's illegal not to play Wangan Midnight music when driving on Shutoko.
)rF2 and iRacing seem mostly geared toward the multiplayer. The PC landscape has either excellent pure racing sims or pure arcade games, but very few of what I'm actually after, which is a blend of both and a workable singleplayer experience. Games you could call """simcade""" if I didn't find the term arbitrary and complete nonsense. Most of my time on Forza Horizon 4 and 5 was spent doing things that work offline. Gran Turismo ain't coming on PC anytime soon so Forza will do.
That is why I would buy Forza Motorsport on PC. Because like it or not, Forza still fills a niche that very few other games do. If you know others, I'd be happy if you shared your knowledge.
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- They/Them
- Autumnal_Glow
- AutumnalGlow
no. I mean if you buy one game on win 10 store then can you still play the same game you already bought on the win10 store on a xbox series console? or do you need to buy another copy for xbox series consoles?
- 652
- Canada
- outsider819
- 120
- In my head
- None
- xRowdyBurnsx
I'll chime in on this subject as well. First though I just started a community last week on Discord called FWOR (Forza Wheel Only Racing). I need more people to get it going in prep for FM2023. Goal is to have it be a reference for all things wheel on Forza as well as not having to worry about racing with Controller users. Link here: https://discord.gg/WBSvuYWm
Disclaimer: I am a concole player only.
As for GT7 vs FM7 and the wheel. I've had both using the wheel. The biggest difference is GT7's base settings for wheel use was excellent right out of the box. I don't think I tweeked much at all. Great job PD!
As for FM7, I think it gets a bad rep. I spent hours getting the settings right with my old Thrusmaster but once I did, it actually felt just as good if not better than GT7. I have even beaten many of my controller times with wheels. Recently purchased a CSL DD and had to go through the whole process again, and once agian, I found the right settings and it feels fantastic.
Next thing about FM7 is that the tuning settings work totally different for a wheel than a remote. I cannot use controller tunes.
Conclusion - If someone has no idea how to set up their wheel and/or how to make a tune in FM7 for the wheel, yes, FM7 is going to feel horrible. Not going to deny that. I also don't know how the wheel relates to PC when it comes to feel. I can't play ACC on Xbox because the FFB is almost non-existent no matter what the settings. Move over to PC, and I know it is excellent based on the rave reviews. GT7 on the other hand takes little thought. Tuning you could basically adjust the diff settings to what you like and you are done. Very user friendly.
I do think T10 will implement the wheel better for the '23 release. FH5 was much better out of the box but still needed tweeking. It was a big step regardless. I think we'll see another big step. There is obviously a relationship with Thrustmaster with the latest controller realease and I suspect the delay in the console version of the T818 has something to do with FM23.
- 106
- Canada
yeah that makes sense lol. I forgot that people play games to have a good time. I'm a hardcore competitive sim gamer I can't play without a wheel and all assists off that's why I didn't get why would someone get Forza on pc. I guess I'm not the target audience.A career mode that isn't nonexistent.
Assetto Corsa is amazing for pure car feel and modding, but it's a time attack simulator more than anything for me. Or a "cruise around Tokyo" simulator when I feel like booting up Shutoko Highway and the Wangan Midnight soundtrack. (it's illegal not to play Wangan Midnight music when driving on Shutoko.
rF2 and iRacing seem mostly geared toward the multiplayer. The PC landscape has either excellent pure racing sims or pure arcade games, but very few of what I'm actually after, which is a blend of both and a workable singleplayer experience. Games you could call """simcade""" if I didn't find the term arbitrary and complete nonsense. Most of my time on Forza Horizon 4 and 5 was spent doing things that work offline. Gran Turismo ain't coming on PC anytime soon so Forza will do.
That is why I would buy Forza Motorsport on PC. Because like it or not, Forza still fills a niche that very few other games do. If you know others, I'd be happy if you shared your knowledge.
- 3,958
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
Just think about the 25 million Forza Horizon 5 players who reached the hall of fame (i.e. put hours into the game). I would expect that 0.1% of them use a wheel, if not even less.
FM2023 the percentage will be higher, but still probably below 1%. Most players are on the console, of course. PC players have a wealth of "proper" sims to choose from, so Forza won't be bought by those who regard iRacing, rFactor 2 or AC/ACC as the way to spend time with racing games. But the things which make Forza so unique on the PC are all about having fun with cars, not chasing laptimes - different audience.
Still, if you think about how fragmented Forza is on PC, with the windows store version completely separate from the steam version, the player base of FH5 on steam alone is probably equivalent to all of the race sims put together: https://steamcharts.com/top
It is very telling when the top racing games on Steam for active players (as I write this) are ETS2, FH5, Rocket League, FH4, BeamNG and then Assetto Corsa. And then you remember that FH4 and FH5 player base on Steam is tiny compared to windows store, let alone on the Xbox.
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- Mexico
So, I've decided to play FM7 one more (last) time and give it a final and fair assessment before the launch of FM, and I also want to see what things can/should improve and the first thing in my list is clearly the intro: I hope FM does not have an intro race/sequence, and if it does, it should be entirely skippable. Whatever the new handling is, I rather try it by myself jumping straight to free practice or into the campaign.
I'm playing on the Series X with a 4K Sony TV (X85K).
Update: So, FM7 graphics have not aged well... The prologue is probably the best-looking part of the game, but otherwise, colors look faded, black levels look crushed (I may need to adjust later when my room is completely dark), and cars look opaque at night. It's funny but FM6 has aged quite well in this regard (granted, on a 1080p VA gaming monitor).
Right from the start the homologation system rears its ugly head due to its arbitrary nature: Why the supercars are limited to S1 750 when they can go up to 800? Why they have to run in street tires (seriously?), and so on.
I'm playing on the Series X with a 4K Sony TV (X85K).
Update: So, FM7 graphics have not aged well... The prologue is probably the best-looking part of the game, but otherwise, colors look faded, black levels look crushed (I may need to adjust later when my room is completely dark), and cars look opaque at night. It's funny but FM6 has aged quite well in this regard (granted, on a 1080p VA gaming monitor).
Right from the start the homologation system rears its ugly head due to its arbitrary nature: Why the supercars are limited to S1 750 when they can go up to 800? Why they have to run in street tires (seriously?), and so on.
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