Forza Motorsport General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Terronium-12
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- 359
- New Zealand
- syphe
Take it with a grain of salt. The 18 month rule only applies to contractors, and in my experience (I just finished up 4yrs at MS) I didn't encounter a single engineer who was a contractor (contractors have a vendor prefix in their email address and profile, they are not hidden). There are likely many in the content pipelines who are contractors, but the core engineers who are earning "FAANG" salaries are very unlikely to be subject to this rule unless by choice (You can earn much more as a contractor than as an FTE if you are good enough).
- 5,573
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
Same at EA, contracted staff have “contractor” in their email addresses. I don’t think EA has a hard-lock 18-6 system though, I’ve never come across it and know a bunch of people who progressed from contract to permanent.
I’d expect a lot of QA and junior staff to be contracted, and training up new people on a bespoke engine takes time. That institutional knowledge getting lost every few months hurts the flow/efficiency of developing and servicing a game.
I’d expect a lot of QA and junior staff to be contracted, and training up new people on a bespoke engine takes time. That institutional knowledge getting lost every few months hurts the flow/efficiency of developing and servicing a game.
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- 137
- Netherlands
I fully agree, the fundamental of this game are actually quite alright. I like the physics, and even the car and track list are not bad (of course we all have our wishes)
But what this game lacks is character and immersion, there is basically no career mode and indeed that could be solved relatively easily by making the feature tours permanent.
But ultimately, I think we need some kind of Spec 2 with new menus and a whole new career mode with progression and context. Even though I like seeing tracks added at quite good pace, I think something deeper is needed to bring life back into this game. And they don't have to look further than the Forza Motorsport 4 World Tour which gave freedom and context:
- 2,733
- Italy
- Yellohead
- Clydeyellow
That seemed to be the focus early in the game's development. But the possibility Forza Motorsport may be a mean-and-lean competitive racing sim a la iRacing was met with disapproval by much of the community, which ultimately voiced a desire for an experience with all the trappings of a caRPG. I wouldn't be surprised if a late-in-development change of mind about the game's supposed ethos is how we ended up with the absolutely insane progression system and selection of career events Forza had at launch.
Please note, however, that actual competitive e-sport racing sims (i.e. iRacing) already exist. While they're PC-exclusive and essentially require rather expensive peripherals to be played at any level of competitiveness, which undoubtedly limits their reach, they barely have the same concurrent player count as Forza Horizon, and a player base that may be 1/4th (iRacing's 275k subscribers, v. FH5's estimates of 1 mln daily players). The jury's still out on whether there is enough room for an iRacing competitor or not, too.
So, we're not talking about an untested recipe with the potential to be the next Counter-Strike, but rather one that's been used with some success by far better-established players, and toyed with by other, more direct competitors in the caRPG landscape (Gran Turismo with GT Sport), with mixed critical and commercial success.
I agree that a "Spec 2" update with a revamped UI and a deeper career mode would be appreciated, I fail to see how the FM4 World Tour mode actually gave the player more context than FM23's Builder Cup.I fully agree, the fundamental of this game are actually quite alright. I like the physics, and even the car and track list are not bad (of course we all have our wishes)
But what this game lacks is character and immersion, there is basically no career mode and indeed that could be solved relatively easily by making the feature tours permanent.
But ultimately, I think we need some kind of Spec 2 with new menus and a whole new career mode with progression and context. Even though I like seeing tracks added at quite good pace, I think something deeper is needed to bring life back into this game. And they don't have to look further than the Forza Motorsport 4 World Tour which gave freedom and context:
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- 438
- England
^ That WT was broken though, as the lower difficulty was fixed. Going into the events menu was where it was at.
And as great as those games were, they didn't have a free-play mode with all the options we have now.
Maybe FMs FOMO events were originally part of the builders cup (esp as they all feat the voice over actor) but someone made the decision to do it this way.
And as great as those games were, they didn't have a free-play mode with all the options we have now.
Maybe FMs FOMO events were originally part of the builders cup (esp as they all feat the voice over actor) but someone made the decision to do it this way.
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- 9,621
- Denmark
In that case I can see why they made that decision. The game lacked variety in circuits at launch, so imagine having a massive campaign that didn’t make use of all the circuits that would end up in the game later on. That said, the featured events really shouldn’t expire. It’s just an irritating FOMO tactic that makes the game feel like work.
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- 3,014
- Mexico
Video next week (next Monday?)
- 9,621
- Denmark
Isn’t it Turn 10 being a week late?
- 579
- United States
Yeah figured it would be another week. I know they have their reasons for a 5 week update but I'm not going to lie it sucks and it's pointless considering the content that we don't get to carry us over for that extra week. The wait and anticipation continues for now....
- 2,140
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
It's staggering to me that 275k people are willing to sign up to the iRacing EULA and TOU and pay a monthly subscription. A couple of extracts from the current document (13th March 2024):
"YOUR REAL NAME (or a variation of your name, such as your name followed by a numeral) WILL BE DISPLAYED TO OTHER USERS OF THE SIM"
"You agree that the Promoters own all copies of your Likenesses they create, all rights in those copies and anything of value obtained from their use. You understand that the Promoters may make costly arrangements based on this release and the assignment and other rights granted herein and therefore, once given, you cannot withdraw or revoke this release, assignment and other grant of rights. You hereby waive and release any claims you may have against the Promoters for any damages, costs or liabilities you (or others claiming through me) incur from the Promoters’ use of your name or Likenesses and/or the iRacing Photographs and Recordings, including but not limited to damages caused by any distortion, alteration, optical illusion or composite use, whether intentional or otherwise, that may occur in making, processing, duplicating, distributing or displaying the iRacing Photographs and Recordings and/or your name or these Likenesses."
You have to pay a monthly subscription, the in-game track and cars content is also very expensive, and as you say, you're really going to want an expensive wheel and triple screen setup if you're taking it seriously. And it's PC only, but even with all that and the absurd agreement you have to sign up to, they have 275k subscribers (I haven't checked that number, I'm taking your word for it). What that says to me is the market for a similar game that is cross-platform, can be played competitively with a controller and single screen, gives you all content at much lower cost, and doesn't have such a ridiculous agreement to sign up to, must be huge.
I'm very sceptical that FH5 has a million daily players. I just checked the 4 monthly rivals and 2 have around 105k entries, 2 around 290k. I'd expect most players of the game to want to unlock the FOMO cars, and over a month, doing a clean lap of the monthly rivals is one of the most time-efficient things you can do. It doesn't really matter, though, as MS already has FH5, but not so much a competitor to iRacing, ACC, or GT7. I see GT7 as directly competing with iRacing and ACC because, while it can be played as a carpg, it also gives full access to all cars for all players in multiplayer, making it a true e-sport at the same time as being a carpg.
Competing with your own products rather than competitor products isn't a good business plan. It's like a car maker observing that the smallest cars sell the most, and other companies make medium and large cars already, so they make 5 variants of the smallest car rather than adding medium and large cars to their range.
Another racing game that I'd say is a true e-sport, with a functional level playing field, is Trackmania. I just ran it up on an account that hasn't done any of the current campaign and ran a slow time for the first track. It gave my leaderboard position as 500k, so that's much higher than FH5's monthly rivals leaderboard player count, without any car collecting FOMO.
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- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
iRacing's 275K subscribers aren't daily players either. Most will practice, qualify and race 1 series per week although there will be some who don't even reach that and just race when they have time.
All this comparing is pretty pointless due to differing units. Steam measures concurrent players and peak concurrent players, Microsoft measurements are vague (we usually get something like total monthly players if anything and the numbers are spread across Xbox, Xbox-for-PC, xCloud streaming and Steam), and the iRacing subscriber numbers don't tell us anything about daily engagement either.
All this comparing is pretty pointless due to differing units. Steam measures concurrent players and peak concurrent players, Microsoft measurements are vague (we usually get something like total monthly players if anything and the numbers are spread across Xbox, Xbox-for-PC, xCloud streaming and Steam), and the iRacing subscriber numbers don't tell us anything about daily engagement either.
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- 51
- Australia
My abiding memory of my limited dalliance with iRacing was the unbelievably obstructive UI and feeling that you couldn't do anything much without opening your wallet.
No thanks.
No thanks.
- 122
- Gothenburg
- Hasse 86
But still no clues in the game files regarding what the "new" track might be? Usually someone has found a track logo or something by now, like with Sebring for example 🤔
- 3,014
- Mexico
- 2,031
- Sunderland
Take it with a massive grain of salt because it could be meaningless or just an oversight, but:
One of the files that has all the track posters in it used to be full of files for old tracks that haven't returned, like Alps, Dubai, COTA, etc. In the most recent version it looks like they've removed everything that doesn't actually exist in the game except for, of all things, Amalfi Coast.
It's also not the case in the high res version, which does indeed only have files for tracks that exist in game, so it's probably nothing.
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UKMikey
Premium
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- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
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- 579
- United States
Hopefully they drop us a bone this Friday like they used to do around 4 or 5 months ago and we can get an idea of what's coming. My money though is on one of the following tracks coming next week; Road Atlanta, Sonoma, Bathurst, COTA, Monza or Sunset Peninsula.
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UKMikey
Premium
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- Grea'er Laandan
- UKMikeyA
- UKMikeyA
I'd also take a track outta left field so long as it's not a new fictional one. Let's get the track roster up in numbers before that happens. A lot of people would be happy if it's Fujimi Kaido though and I'd be okay with Rally di Positano or even Camino Viejo at a pinch. I'd rather see Road Atlanta or Mount Panorama though.
- 9,621
- Denmark
Is it out of question they could be bringing back one of their own tracks like Bernese Alps, Dubai or Prague? Personally I don’t care much for those and would rather see the return of another real track. I’m only wondering why people never seem to anticipate the Forza originals coming back.
- 5,573
- Codemasters (EA)
- PJTierney
- 555
- United States
Some interpreted the "focus on motorsport" talk and how they discussed the new tracks were built for good racing first and foremost to suggest that the graphical showcase tracks from the last few titles wouldn't be returning. Probably add in some wishful thinking in there too.
Personally, I'd much rather see them update the old FM1 circuits over nonsense like Bernese Alps and Prague. The original FM1 tracks were actually good for racing, and sadly Maple Valley is the only one we have and it was pretty easily the worst of them.
Rio grew on me, although the FRR update took all the fun out of the chicane, and if they could figure out how to squeeze a pitlane onto Rio Mini it would make a fantastic track for stuff like MX5 Cup and Ginetta Juniors. Dubai was mostly bad, but the "City" layout was actually pretty great for racing, particularly with stuff like touring cars. Needed a skilled group though, as unfortunately it had a few deathtrap areas that would often cause crashes with clumsier drivers, but that could be easily fixed by moving a barrier or something. I guess I wouldn't be too disappointed with those coming back but I'd still put them below everything from FM1 and Sedona.
