Forza

ummm......I've seen quite a few of Forza previews and videos......and when they hit the wall at 80 mph, there cars barely get busted or messed up at all.....tell me again how that would work??????? also if you were to hit the wall at 150mph in real life, your car would be smushed into a sandwich, so I don't belive that Forza is that realistic......if you want Forza to be a realistic simulation, and have damages on cars, than you might as well make it right. "Sheruken", either u were talking about Forza or GT4 hitting the walls at 150mph, they would both be unrealistic anyways.........Either way I'm still going to get both games when it comes out...i'll probably rent out Forza though before i buy it, to see what it's like
 
capnlarge
I was more referring to Maven's post, which seemed to indicate that Forza was a flashy, over-the-top racer. Which in fact it isn't.
Click to expand...

My apologies if that was the impression I gave, it wasn't meant to be. I was trying to show the differentiation in my own perceptions of the two games. Forza isn't 'flashy' just as GT4 isn't 'sedate', I was using hyperbole. I bought Burnout 3 and quite enjoy it for what it is. But I think that with bodykits and damage, Forza is going a different route than the Gran Turismo series.

The problem that I have with damage on cars is that, so far, it's been pretty basic. Mostly, the 'areas' on the cars are the fenders, hood, quarter panels, doors, and windows; then they usually have 'grades' showing light, medium, or heavy damage. If you truly want 'realistic', you'd have to allow for a lot more variables. I'd say about each square foot of surface on a car would be a good measure; each of these squares would have to be able to represent damage dependant upon speed, direction, angle of impact, what kind of object the car hit, how fast and in what direction the object is going, previous damage levels, etc. In essence, I'd expect to never see the same damage on a car twice. I think anybody would admit that this is beyond the current systems that we have.

So the question comes down to, would you rather have a basic but believable system, or no damage at all.
 
Maven
So the question comes down to, would you rather have a basic but believable system, or no damage at all.
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Saying I want damage to be exactly like real life otherwise i don't want any damage is like saying If I don't a supermodel as a girlfirend, I don't want any....
 
Some of you just wont read the original post and attack on the basis of other ppls replies.
I kept screaming "no point of damage if made half measured - which doesnt mean only 100% you ####-head" :P. I kept saying unless wellmade. I never meant to say Forza has half measured or anything coz frankly I've not even played the game yet (*).
Well as far as Damage was concerned, I kept GTR (on PC) as the Benchmark, Coz thats the only game with Circuit (LAP wise) Racing sim I've played with decent Damage modeling, other being RBR, but that according to me, isnt the same as GT4 or Forza as these games would see longer duration circuit races than RBRs Point to Point Rallying. And I think in RBR even some major crashes gets the car back on track and ready to go.
So keeping GTRs Damage modelling in mind which is decent, I wouldnt like to have even such modelling in GT4. Call it a matter of preference. But I wouldnt like to walk (drive) over the debris at over 100MPH on the straights and not even feel it (i just have the latest demo and not the german full version, so dont know about that). You dont need a reason NOT to wallride (for some of u it seems thats the biggest reason you guys want DAMAGE modelling in the game). As far as annoying wallriders (in multiplayer lan game) is concerned, I think the 10 second penatly should keep the serious drivers safe. Again when I said that sitting in front of a 21" Screen with a GAME-PAD doesnt mimic real-life, I meant you should realise at this point that its eventually a game, and can-NOT be like real-life. Didnt mean to offend Xbox gamers only. Even with GT4 and PS2 and DSP and BigAssed Screen, it cant be real-life like.
(*) - Now if someone can help me with the FORZA OXM DEMO!
I already have the RAR files on my PC, now how should I extract the ISO and burn it on a DVD ?
Like for PS2 you have to burn them on Mode2 and with Max 4x speeds or something (ain it?) I'd appreciate any help on this, thanks.
 
Solidus Snake
I heard that you can't flip the cars in Forza and that you can't break off pieces of the cars. Yeah, real realistic.
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I don't think Car developper really like having their car flip. Some of you need to realize that game developper are under certain regulation impose by car manufacturer.
 
Settle down... I understand you're trying to make a point, but try and convey your point in a more courteous manner...
;)
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Noted down, No offence meant to anyone. Sir (4Hashes) Head! :D
Won't happen again.
 
sheruken
(*) - Now if someone can help me with the FORZA OXM DEMO!
I already have the RAR files on my PC, now how should I extract the ISO and burn it on a DVD ?
Like for PS2 you have to burn them on Mode2 and with Max 4x speeds or something (ain it?) I'd appreciate any help on this, thanks.
Click to expand...


is your xbox modded ?
What type of DVD blank are you going to use ?

My suggestion is to take winrar to uncompress the file. Take Alchool 120% and burn in on a verbatim DVD-R.
 
sheruken
Some of you just wont read the original post and attack on the basis of other ppls replies.
I kept screaming "no point of damage if made half measured - which doesnt mean only 100% you ####-head" :P. I kept saying unless wellmade. I never meant to say Forza has half measured or anything coz frankly I've not even played the game yet (*).
Well as far as Damage was concerned, I kept GTR (on PC) as the Benchmark, Coz thats the only game with Circuit (LAP wise) Racing sim I've played with decent Damage modeling, other being RBR, but that according to me, isnt the same as GT4 or Forza as these games would see longer duration circuit races than RBRs Point to Point Rallying. And I think in RBR even some major crashes gets the car back on track and ready to go.
So keeping GTRs Damage modelling in mind which is decent, I wouldnt like to have even such modelling in GT4. Call it a matter of preference. But I wouldnt like to walk (drive) over the debris at over 100MPH on the straights and not even feel it (i just have the latest demo and not the german full version, so dont know about that). You dont need a reason NOT to wallride (for some of u it seems thats the biggest reason you guys want DAMAGE modelling in the game). As far as annoying wallriders (in multiplayer lan game) is concerned, I think the 10 second penatly should keep the serious drivers safe. Again when I said that sitting in front of a 21" Screen with a GAME-PAD doesnt mimic real-life, I meant you should realise at this point that its eventually a game, and can-NOT be like real-life. Didnt mean to offend Xbox gamers only. Even with GT4 and PS2 and DSP and BigAssed Screen, it cant be real-life like.
(*) - Now if someone can help me with the FORZA OXM DEMO!
I already have the RAR files on my PC, now how should I extract the ISO and burn it on a DVD ?
Like for PS2 you have to burn them on Mode2 and with Max 4x speeds or something (ain it?) I'd appreciate any help on this, thanks.
Click to expand...

sim·u·late ( P ) Pronunciation Key (smy-lt)
tr.v. sim·u·lat·ed, sim·u·lat·ing, sim·u·lates

To have or take on the appearance, form, or sound of; imitate.
To make in imitation of or as a substitute for. See Synonyms at imitate.
To make a pretense of; feign: simulate interest.
To create a representation or model of (a physical system or particular situation, for example).

To simulate something is, be definition, just a representation of the real thing. Dont' get confused and think we're talking about real life, cause we're not - we're talking about GT4. Having no damage in GT4 simply means it's a less accurate representation of the real thing.
 
Yes the cars can be flipped, and I haven't experienced pieces coming off, but I have seen the bumpers had a point where they're dragging on the road.
 
McLaren F1GTR
Yes the cars can be flipped, and I haven't experienced pieces coming off, but I have seen the bumpers had a point where they're dragging on the road.
Click to expand...
Man, that’s great news. Can’t wait to flip a Ferrari:scared:
 
McLaren F1GTR
Yes the cars can be flipped, and I haven't experienced pieces coming off, but I have seen the bumpers had a point where they're dragging on the road.
Click to expand...

manufacturer restraints. otherwise there will be ferrari's that will become the product of burnout 3...now...ferrari wouldn't like that...or would they...?
 
The damage modelling is all very nice, but it depends on what the final game plays like. I must say though, on the graphics front, I agree with what has been said by some of you before....some of the cars ( at this stage of development in the game ), look plastic.
I saw a glimpse of the VW corrado the other day on a demo that my brother has, and compared to the real thing, it looks nothing like it! Shame, I love that car.....
 
Rocco
I saw a glimpse of the VW corrado the other day on a demo that my brother has, and compared to the real thing, it looks nothing like it! Shame, I love that car.....
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I used to own a VW Corrado VR6, a few years back (well, like 6 years ago)...

I am very much hoping to see the car in GT4...


;)
 
capnlarge
Can you in the demo? I've been purposely driving pretty rough and haven't done it yet.
Click to expand...

Someone said something about it in this thread... They said they flipped their car, pretty clearly...



;)
 
A while ago on this thread someone was talking about how PD push the PS2 so well that they will out do Forza with GT4 even though the Xbox is more powerful on paper. Well I know this has been talked about alot over the years but I have a Game Cube, Xbox and PS2 and I'm sure convinced that the PS2 is without a question the most powerfull of the 3 machines, allways was allways will be. Maybe it can't draw as many polygons "on paper" of have as much ram but that fact is, the majority of current PS2 games look much better and run much faster than the Xbox games. It might be because DirectX isn't very good or because it doesn't have purebreed arcade type hardware that the PS2 has, I don't really know. But I'm telling you Forza can not be as good as pretty or run as fast as GT4 no matter who programs it because the Xbox is just not capable of running a game of GT4's quality full stop and the Xbox games don't have that 60fps "hardware" feel that PS2 games often have. The PS2 is much harder to code and not everone can get to grips with it, in this way it reminds me of the Amiga but when people do understand it, then it's a magic little machine. The Xbox can't even get it's head around a platformer like Ratchet and clank like the PS2 can. I can remember Linus of Linux fame saying something like, sure DirectX can run 100fps but what they don't tell you is that it's running 20fps the first half a second and 80 in the second half. That's how I feel when I'm playing the Xbox, it feels dodgy and not consistant, like I dunno : ) but I really think the PS2 is a more advanced machine
 
nicefrog
A while ago on this thread someone was talking about how PD push the PS2 so well that they will out do Forza with GT4 even though the Xbox is more powerful on paper. Well I know this has been talked about alot over the years but I have a Game Cube, Xbox and PS2 and I'm sure convinced that the PS2 is without a question the most powerfull of the 3 machines, allways was allways will be. Maybe it can't draw as many polygons "on paper" of have as much ram but that fact is, the majority of current PS2 games look much better and run much faster than the Xbox games. It might be because DirectX isn't very good or because it doesn't have purebreed arcade type hardware that the PS2 has, I don't really know. But I'm telling you Forza can not be as good as pretty or run as fast as GT4 no matter who programs it because the Xbox is just not capable of running a game of GT4's quality full stop and the Xbox games don't have that 60fps "hardware" feel that PS2 games often have. The PS2 is much harder to code and not everone can get to grips with it, in this way it reminds me of the Amiga but when people do understand it, then it's a magic little machine. The Xbox can't even get it's head around a platformer like Ratchet and clank like the PS2 can. I can remember Linus of Linux fame saying something like, sure DirectX can run 100fps but what they don't tell you is that it's running 20fps the first half a second and 80 in the second half. That's how I feel when I'm playing the Xbox, it feels dodgy and not consistant, like I dunno : ) but I really think the PS2 is a more advanced machine
Click to expand...


You really must go see your doctor about your eyes. I own all 3 console and by far the PS2 is the worst graphicly. PS2 more advance machine ? LMAO !!! it doesn't even have function like bump-mapping and normal-mapping... I never head so much false information in one post.

Now do yourself a favor and go play DOA:U or Ninja Gaiden on a HDTV. PS2 looks like a dreamcast compare to those 2 games. Have you also seen RSC2 in 480p ?

Say you prefer the PS2 but don't say it's the more advance machine, you are going to get flame seriously on the internet.
 
Sven scanned a GT4 article of OPM in another thread and it mentioned Forza and Enthusia. If you read this:

"Konami, I think, may be taking the whole notion of realism perhaps a little too seriously, but if they get it right, it will maybe last longer."

http://team-ir.org/stuff/scans/scans-Pages/Image7.html

It seems like Enthusia will be the most realistic one.
I'm actually a bit dissapointed that PD doesn't want to take realism "too" serious when they use "The Real Driving Simulator" title. :|
I hope Kazunori Yamauchi has other ideas about this...
 
Pak
Sven scanned a GT4 article of OPM in another thread and it mentioned Forza and Enthusia. If you read this:

"Konami, I think, may be taking the whole notion of realism perhaps a little too seriously, but if they get it right, it will maybe last longer."

http://team-ir.org/stuff/scans/scans-Pages/Image7.html

It seems like Enthusia will be the most realistic one.
I'm actually a bit dissapointed that PD doesn't want to take realism "too" serious when they use "The Real Driving Simulator" title. :|
I hope Kazunori Yamauchi has other ideas about this...
Click to expand...

When you sold so many games it easy to be in that position. Why should PD change. They are going to sell only base on name recogination more than Enthusia and Forza.
 
@Symtex: although technically wrong, nicefrog has a point.

@Pak: reading OPM is bad enough, but taking anything they say seriously? Please ...
 
Arwin
@Symtex: although technically wrong, nicefrog has a point.
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I didn't flame too much on his technical statement. There is quite a few game that look so much better then Rachet and Clank on xbox. Prefering that game, that is an whole new argument. I'm not a platformer person but I can respect if someone do.

Ps2 uses 256x256 or 512x512 low-res texture is almost all the games. Yes artisticly a game could look good but some good textures artist but technology has involve so much with the use of bump-mapping and normal-mapping that PS2 is no longer keeping up anymore. If you play PS2 for a certain period of time, you eyes will get use to a certain graphic level but everytime I have play an xbox game for a certain extend of time and go back to play a PS2 games, I see the difference right away. I have the same feeling with the Gamecube too. The differene is more subtile with the gamecube.
 
X-box is without doubt a better machine than the PS2, however at this point in time GT4 still LOOKS better than Forza (in my humble opinion ). So I think it is really down to how they use the capability of the machine, and the GT series still sets the benchmark at this point.
That said, Forza is'nt technically finished yet so maybe, just maybe it will be a better game.
Either way, a couple of cracking games for the racing fans next year!!!

If GT4 comes out..........ever.........
 
Rocco
X-box is without doubt a better machine than the PS2, however at this point in time GT4 still LOOKS better than Forza (in my humble opinion ). So I think it is really down to how they use the capability of the machine, and the GT series still sets the benchmark at this point.
That said, Forza is'nt technically finished yet so maybe, just maybe it will be a better game.
Either way, a couple of cracking games for the racing fans next year!!!

If GT4 comes out..........ever.........
Click to expand...


I have the GT4 demo at home and I thought that even though they have improve on the previous installement, it doesn't look near the quality of Rallysports Challenge 2 graphicly. I will also say the same about the Forza demo.
 
Symtex
I have the GT4 demo at home and I thought that even though they have improve on the previous installement, it doesn't look near the quality of Rallysports Challenge 2 graphicly. I will also say the same about the Forza demo.
Click to expand...

True.

But they do have a hell of a lot more cars to model in GT4, and that takes up more memory.
As for Forza, I hope that they can improve the graphics before the launch. Im sure they will though, plenty of time.
 
Rocco
True.

But they do have a hell of a lot more cars to model in GT4, and that takes up more memory.
As for Forza, I hope that they can improve the graphics before the launch. Im sure they will though, plenty of time.
Click to expand...

I agree. Launching a new franchise with 200 cars is not a small feat.
 

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