Forza
- Thread starter GT Obsession
- 2,956 comments
- 163,715 views
- 264
code_kevI love the triggers on the xbox pad, so much depth. Makes MUCH more sense then shallow buttons that make your thumbs hurt after a few hours of pressing.
I'm afraid my thumbs don't hurt when I'm using my lovely DFP wheel... ahh yes such attention to detail and such precision with that thing. Of course even when I used the DS2 I had no thumb trouble or any other such problems... I found the analogue buttons to be absolutely fine and I'm sure as someone will point out in the same way they did about the DS2 analogue sticks vs. it's dpad... that the analogue buttons have more different levels of pressure than an analogue stick has.
Either way.. triggers for accel/brake feel stupid and usually hinder performance in my experience. It feels wrong..
- 3,802
Each to their own I guess
The buttons may be analog on the ps2, but theres no real depth. If you have ever driven a car, you will know that pedals are DEEP, there's lots of travel. This is why I like triggers, it's easy to get varying amounts of depth, and while you can do this with the buttons on a ps2 pad, it's not the same. Also you have to push so hard in one place, I just find my thumb gets tired lol.
That's why I find deep buttons more natural, It gives me loads of control over the amount of brake and accel, more so then in any ps2 racing game (unless you use the logictech wheel ofc, but I don't, nor ever will buy one). I guess I'm used to it because of dreamcast racers.
Gotta say, I hated the lay out of the sticks on the ps2, right next to each other, eugh, way to close together for my liking, that's why I use one stick to steer, and the buttons to accel etc.
The buttons may be analog on the ps2, but theres no real depth. If you have ever driven a car, you will know that pedals are DEEP, there's lots of travel. This is why I like triggers, it's easy to get varying amounts of depth, and while you can do this with the buttons on a ps2 pad, it's not the same. Also you have to push so hard in one place, I just find my thumb gets tired lol.
That's why I find deep buttons more natural, It gives me loads of control over the amount of brake and accel, more so then in any ps2 racing game (unless you use the logictech wheel ofc, but I don't, nor ever will buy one). I guess I'm used to it because of dreamcast racers.
Gotta say, I hated the lay out of the sticks on the ps2, right next to each other, eugh, way to close together for my liking, that's why I use one stick to steer, and the buttons to accel etc.
code_kevEach to their own I guess
The buttons may be analog on the ps2, but theres no real depth. If you have ever driven a car, you will know that pedals are DEEP, there's lots of travel. This is why I like triggers, it's easy to get varying amounts of depth, and while you can do this with the buttons on a ps2 pad, it's not the same. Also you have to push so hard in one place, I just find my thumb gets tired lol.
That's why I find deep buttons more natural, It gives me loads of control over the amount of brake and accel, more so then in any ps2 racing game (unless you use the logictech wheel ofc, but I don't, nor ever will buy one). I guess I'm used to it because of dreamcast racers.
Gotta say, I hated the lay out of the sticks on the ps2, right next to each other, eugh, way to close together for my liking, that's why I use one stick to steer, and the buttons to accel etc.
I'm not going to reply, because that's stupid to argue about that, everyone has their tastes. What i do find amusing however... is that you clearly state you would never purchase a wheel. So I go to thinking.
You love damage etc because it adds more realism yada yada...
yet...
a wheel...which will add more depth and simulation feel to a game than damage ever could. That gives you total control of the car, to an extent that buttons/triggers cannot produce...yet you will never own one?...I just don't see, code, how you are so critical on racing simulators, yet the DFP, the best thing to ever hit a racing simulator, is implied as a waste of money? You didn't use those exact words, but the feel I got from your input about it is that it is not worth your purchase...maybe you've used it, maybe not...but it's the best thing to ever hit the racing sim. video game genre...best wheel ever, for it's price range.
- 3,802
Tha_con, I'm too poor to afford a wheel. That's the only reason I won't purchase one. I be a poor POOR student, with lots of loverly debt
OFC I'll send up owning a wheel one day, but chances are it will be the next DFP or what ever.
i have used it, and while it's not as good as people make out, it's the best I've used.
OFC I'll send up owning a wheel one day, but chances are it will be the next DFP or what ever.
i have used it, and while it's not as good as people make out, it's the best I've used.
- 30
good responses, sorry my first post was so long felt like i had to catch up on 1,100 posts!
Physics, are you kiding me? this thing is a bar apart, the first thing you should notice is the acceleration from a standstill, go ahead floor the gas in a Viper and see how muh wheel spin you get (no gt game has recreated this kind of gas), you will take off but that is because the 360 will run into the back of you giving you a boost....In second gear i could do donuts and in third i could do donuts, which is funny because i have done the exact same thing in life, second gear in the viper is like first with more speed, just like in real life. I have not driven the 360 in real life but considering one of the designers drove one i can think he wanted it to feel like the real thing.
Visual, yes each car is the most accurate models to date on a racer, this cars physics relys on accurate models to deliver real time independent aerodynamic physics, especially with a crash hindering performance, Now the look did get some getting used to but after seeing real life in view videos of laguna seca being run by either a corvette or the likes, the sense of speed is the same as in the game and so is the off look of the cars....PD has used trickery to some exect while still giving a realistic look, the models are not perfect, but good ole tricky with tracks and some other things dont show its flaws, it is evident once played and your eyes readjust, maybe its me, maybe im to used to motorsports and real life 'looks' of cars, who knows but GT series have always had funny looking models, thats my opinion, and honestly it has been that way since GT1 so oh well, to each his own. great art direction yes, but i want sim direction something forza is giving me...
Aerokits...people made aerokits designed by the gt team???? i thought it was the other way around gt team made aerokits based on real world designs....and while on this aerokit issue are these real world liscensed aerokits or part of your racing mod like in GT2, and if this is true why is there no pictures or videos of showing this unique aspect of the game? they would surely want to show this imo or else what new did they bring to it from gt3? get my drift, if you have links or videos showing this aeromod not done by a racing mod please endulge me. Also are they licensed or made up by the dev team? if made up, then its not realistic is it? in terms of real life....
but in the end i have seen flaws in the demo, honestly i could care less abour racing a prius, come on i have a car out in my driveway that will waste i prius to dust, i dont buy a driving/racing game/sim to drive something i could waiste in real life, i want something that i would want to own, want to be seen in...come on how many people drove the SI civic as the car of the game in GT? nobody, why they were all walking around in Hi-performance tuned beasts or race cars, the only time anybody touched them is when they were with friends and wanted a 2second laugh. sure they are nice to have but in the online community, someone that is mediocore with 300cars going against someone who is a pro with 10cars is going to be shutup and shown who the real driver is....its nice to have cars but another thing to get in one and master it....something the GT series also has failed to do, the Cobra R had the same level of difficulty as a Viper of C5 Z06 when in reality they are all really really different beasts, and forza has shown that with each model.
But im choosing forza over GT because the demo even though not polished is far more realistic than any game set forth by GT, including prologue and since i havnt played only seen the japan demo, i cant really comment on the japan demo, but in game-play is nothing stunning and in reality dont look much better than GT3. And because im flat broke i litterally save for months at a time to buy just one game, and Forza's game is going to be more indepth someone calculated 600races just in single player mode, and in way more depth in physics just the tire model alone and suspension model should be enough for realism, and of course the tuning options that will be unriveled by any game...on paper that is, but that paper is code and the code is the game, imo. Forza for bringing something new and realistic, and building on a sound formula, all of the teams are GT freaks and frankly they play it in thier office while they are making the game. They know what they need to make magic and they are doing so well, imo.
fanboyism? maybe but thats because GT has brought nothing new, and i cant afford another ps2 and gt4 just to 'compare' i will play gt4 on my friends ps2 though.
Physics, are you kiding me? this thing is a bar apart, the first thing you should notice is the acceleration from a standstill, go ahead floor the gas in a Viper and see how muh wheel spin you get (no gt game has recreated this kind of gas), you will take off but that is because the 360 will run into the back of you giving you a boost....In second gear i could do donuts and in third i could do donuts, which is funny because i have done the exact same thing in life, second gear in the viper is like first with more speed, just like in real life. I have not driven the 360 in real life but considering one of the designers drove one i can think he wanted it to feel like the real thing.
Visual, yes each car is the most accurate models to date on a racer, this cars physics relys on accurate models to deliver real time independent aerodynamic physics, especially with a crash hindering performance, Now the look did get some getting used to but after seeing real life in view videos of laguna seca being run by either a corvette or the likes, the sense of speed is the same as in the game and so is the off look of the cars....PD has used trickery to some exect while still giving a realistic look, the models are not perfect, but good ole tricky with tracks and some other things dont show its flaws, it is evident once played and your eyes readjust, maybe its me, maybe im to used to motorsports and real life 'looks' of cars, who knows but GT series have always had funny looking models, thats my opinion, and honestly it has been that way since GT1 so oh well, to each his own. great art direction yes, but i want sim direction something forza is giving me...
Aerokits...people made aerokits designed by the gt team???? i thought it was the other way around gt team made aerokits based on real world designs....and while on this aerokit issue are these real world liscensed aerokits or part of your racing mod like in GT2, and if this is true why is there no pictures or videos of showing this unique aspect of the game? they would surely want to show this imo or else what new did they bring to it from gt3? get my drift, if you have links or videos showing this aeromod not done by a racing mod please endulge me. Also are they licensed or made up by the dev team? if made up, then its not realistic is it? in terms of real life....
but in the end i have seen flaws in the demo, honestly i could care less abour racing a prius, come on i have a car out in my driveway that will waste i prius to dust, i dont buy a driving/racing game/sim to drive something i could waiste in real life, i want something that i would want to own, want to be seen in...come on how many people drove the SI civic as the car of the game in GT? nobody, why they were all walking around in Hi-performance tuned beasts or race cars, the only time anybody touched them is when they were with friends and wanted a 2second laugh. sure they are nice to have but in the online community, someone that is mediocore with 300cars going against someone who is a pro with 10cars is going to be shutup and shown who the real driver is....its nice to have cars but another thing to get in one and master it....something the GT series also has failed to do, the Cobra R had the same level of difficulty as a Viper of C5 Z06 when in reality they are all really really different beasts, and forza has shown that with each model.
But im choosing forza over GT because the demo even though not polished is far more realistic than any game set forth by GT, including prologue and since i havnt played only seen the japan demo, i cant really comment on the japan demo, but in game-play is nothing stunning and in reality dont look much better than GT3. And because im flat broke i litterally save for months at a time to buy just one game, and Forza's game is going to be more indepth someone calculated 600races just in single player mode, and in way more depth in physics just the tire model alone and suspension model should be enough for realism, and of course the tuning options that will be unriveled by any game...on paper that is, but that paper is code and the code is the game, imo. Forza for bringing something new and realistic, and building on a sound formula, all of the teams are GT freaks and frankly they play it in thier office while they are making the game. They know what they need to make magic and they are doing so well, imo.
fanboyism? maybe but thats because GT has brought nothing new, and i cant afford another ps2 and gt4 just to 'compare' i will play gt4 on my friends ps2 though.
- 758
- un_peacekeeper
Symtex
don't use unfinished products to judge something that has yet been released.
i'm noticing something...
people that support Forza cant even afford a PS2. and coming from a guy that cant even afford a PS2... i highly doubt he can even drive a real car.
there is absolutly nothing can compare to GT4 atm. if Forza is that great as a simulation, race team would be using it to train their drivers using this game.
FYI Lupo cup drivers used the GT4 as a trainer before they race to learn the braking point and racing line. GT is currently the only game that get full support from various manufacturer. u didnt notice how PD gets to test some the new cars out before mass media even got a chance to see it?
btw the Nismo S-tune body kit for 350Z and G35 is develop inconjunction with PD using GT3 engine.
people that support Forza cant even afford a PS2. and coming from a guy that cant even afford a PS2... i highly doubt he can even drive a real car.
there is absolutly nothing can compare to GT4 atm. if Forza is that great as a simulation, race team would be using it to train their drivers using this game.
FYI Lupo cup drivers used the GT4 as a trainer before they race to learn the braking point and racing line. GT is currently the only game that get full support from various manufacturer. u didnt notice how PD gets to test some the new cars out before mass media even got a chance to see it?
btw the Nismo S-tune body kit for 350Z and G35 is develop inconjunction with PD using GT3 engine.
- 758
- un_peacekeeper
Hyde
good points. yes, i respect forza as a good game, but you cannot criticize GT4 just because of so.
bout testing cars before the mass media is very true. i read somewhere that the new bmw 3 series was supposed to debut in GT4. the delay made BMW debut the car in real life now tho.
- 264
I spent plenty of time in GT3 driving Civics and all manner of 'standard' cars... they are great fun. Far more fun than sports cars in many ways... because you have made them more powerful yourself. They are tailored to you and they are cars you see everyday in real life.. I see a Civic always irl... but driving one that I've tuned for a specific track against other people who've tuned similar level machines is great...
That is the fun of GT4... everyday cars... plus racing cars, plus all manner of sports cars and many others... it's not just the traditional one dimensional "GT Racer" or the "F1 Racer"... it has a bit of everything, means you don't get bored and you can have fun matching the Civic you tuned against a brand new TVR and feel the difference between the two... There is just much more you can do.
People complain about so many Lan Evos/Skylines.. I think there should be at least one representation of every previous model of those kinda cars... because it's great seeing how they have evolved... and when each one of them are brilliant cars it's worth while having so many. There are times I don't want to drive a damn Evo 8 I wanna drive an Evo 3... these variations are what I like.
That is the fun of GT4... everyday cars... plus racing cars, plus all manner of sports cars and many others... it's not just the traditional one dimensional "GT Racer" or the "F1 Racer"... it has a bit of everything, means you don't get bored and you can have fun matching the Civic you tuned against a brand new TVR and feel the difference between the two... There is just much more you can do.
People complain about so many Lan Evos/Skylines.. I think there should be at least one representation of every previous model of those kinda cars... because it's great seeing how they have evolved... and when each one of them are brilliant cars it's worth while having so many. There are times I don't want to drive a damn Evo 8 I wanna drive an Evo 3... these variations are what I like.
Hyde
I have all 3 console hookup with an 51'' HDTV and 1000w Onkyo sound system.I drive brand new Elantra GT 2004 full equiped with leather.
What did you say about Forza support not able to afford a PS2 ? Or not even to drive a real car ?
You may want not to generalize too much with Forza supporter. Some might be offended by your ways of looking down on them.
allsopsOutta curiosity, if you have to:
then how do you pay for gas for that new car? Either you dont buy pretty much anything yourself (except for videogames) or you're bending the truth...
I'm a network specialist for an ISP (over an million subscriber) and currently working on a VoIP project. I make a pretty good salary for myself and I can afford the car thank you very much.
Now go back to your parent basement and go to sleep. it's late and you have school tomorrow. It's important to get a good education if you want a job like mine someday.
- 264
Symtex
Can you say sidestepped.
- 91
elitewolverine
No offense, but that's why Forza's right up your alley. You can race all those dreamy cars you'd like to be seen in to your content. Me, personally? I can't wait to get behind the [DFP2] wheel of the Prius, and that Taurus they keep showing in screens, and that little glowing Nissan (I think...) boxy car. Just to get some idea of what it's like to drive one. Sure, I'll build an 700 hp Skyline and a wicked EVO 8, but my bone stock Toyota Vitz will be in the same garage. That's what makes Gran Turismo Gran Turismo. It's for people who genuinely enjoy driving, not realistically damaging expensive race cars. Not that GT fans don't like racing or vehicular damage, but GT is a little bigger than that to some people.
Oh, and everyone keeps harping on graphics and detail. Detail is having ten different Skylines and twelve different Evos. Detail is including a Prius and a Taurus and a Demio when other drivers/racers focus solely on desirable sports cars and race cars. Most games focus on the details of car models. GT focus on the details of car culture.
Symtex
LOL... you're a network specialist and you have to save up for months to buy a $50 videogame? I think you need to renegotiate your contract, man.
And just fyi, I have a CSc degree (something like the one I imagine you have), also own my own (new) car and havn't lived in my parents basement for nearly 10 years... oh, and with my job I can do all this and still not have to save up for months to buy a video game... which is exactly why I'm buying both GT4 & Forza (I guess some CSc guys have all the luck, eh?)
- 9,589
- GTP_DelphicR
- Esoterik1
Ubiquitous
Indeed... If he's a network specialist, I'll eat my hat...
I particularly liked this line:
Nice try buddy, but you're not fooling anyone......
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
allsopsOutta curiosity, if you have to:
then how do you pay for gas for that new car? Either you dont buy pretty much anything yourself (except for videogames) or you're bending the truth...
Why am I the only one who realizes one thing:
Allsops; learn to read. You quoted two different people. Symtex said the first thing, but elite said the second. What the hell are you trying to prove?
elitewolverine
Like someone has already said; then congrats, you've picked the right game. Well, actually, since you want the highest performing cars, perhaps you should invest in an F1 game.
GT is not about having the same dozen supercars that nearly every racing game would focus on; it's about diversity of the world's automotive landscape. A car doesn't have to have 500hp and top 200mph to be exciting or fun to drive. I apologize for bringing up an age-old cliché, but "If you can't drive 60 horsepower, you can't drive 600".
- 60
i was just browsing over this debate about forza and gt4 and came across this loser, telling of his wealth or lack of. i once read that a rich person never tells of his wealth, his wealth does it for him. do u think telling people on a forum, which has no relation to ur income will get u some friends or somthing. i wouldnt be surprised if u were actually unemployed and lived in ur parents basement.
ps i cant believe people even put forza in the same league as gt4, as forza is little more than nfsu2 with slightly more realistic graphics and a heap more hype. i bet gt3 is a more realistic driving simulator for car handiling and physics.
subie power
Not really unemployed and you are right it has nothing to do with the debate. Did I tell my wealth ? The guys told the reason i couldn't enjoy GT4 is because I couldn't afford one. come on. I find it funny that money has been brought into the argument. I llike what I do for a living and i don't mind telling people. It's a very rewarding job.
GT3 was very forgiving and I think that it's closer to NFSU:2 then Forza will be will all the assist off.
oh boy,Hyde
I hope you're talking about console only, although even then you still have Richard Burns Rally which was developped with rally teams and even simulates loss of turbo boost at high altitudes.
The latest GT4 demo is a huge improvement but it's still not as realistic as some sims out there imo.
Oh and a U.S. based GT4 producer even stated that Konami may take realism too serious with Enthusia,.. that means PD doesn't want to take realism too serious with GT4.(Kazunori may think different about this, I dunno)
About the Lupo drivers, that doesn't really tell you much about the quality of the simulator except that the circuit must be very accurate and the performance of the cars.(breaking distance, accelleration etc.)
Something nice about GTR, Simbin has acces to classified information that sometimes even the racing teams themself don't know. You can choose a Ferrari 550 from different teams and they will feel different because one drives on Dunlop tyres, which may be more forgiving, and the other one drives on Michellin tyres(which are more durable or whatever). They can get all this information because GTR is the 'official' FIA GT simulation.
Now I seriously doubt PD used this kind of information for al 700+ cars.
Quantity over quality. I still could be wrong though.
We'll know when GT4 is released but you can't claim "there is absolutly nothing can compare to GT4 atm"
- 2,093
GTR is great, most realistic, limited selection of cars but heaps of them on track at once and with realistic damage, incredible number of tracks, doesn't always look awesome, but the realism makes up for all that easily, supports force feedback wheels exceptionally well. You do need to have a decent PC to get a good framerate with still decent graphics, that you have to keep working (this is my problem, which I'm constantly returning to the PS2 - my PC always ends up not working for some reason, must be because I'm an IT pro ... I'll soon reinstall the PC, haven't done that for ... forever actually and then I'll be back driving the odd sim).
GT4 is very realistic, especially for road cars (that's what I can compare best anyway), has an insane number of great looking and authentic cars, good selection of tracks, and very smooth graphics and realistic lighting, has 6 cars on track. You can still use the great Driving Force Pro wheel with it and it supports this with realistic force feedback and 900 degree mode.
Forza looks good, has some very nice cars, great looking tracks, looks to be having some great tuning and decal options, is a bit off on the actual modelling and color representation and could be very realistic, and has 8 cars on track. As long as there aren't any decent wheels and force feedback support that's going to pay off in a very very limited way and is quite pointless, I'm sorry to say (because I do own an Xbox you see?).
I'm secretly hoping that the Xbox version of GTR ends up being released and that they somehow manage to support the DF Pro on it, that would be great. The downside of PCs is that the experience isn't equal for all drivers, which makes the competition aspect of it less fun. Once you start driving at really high levels everything counts. With our PS2 competitions and Xbox live events, everyone has pretty much the same setup and performance, and that's really great.
GT4 is very realistic, especially for road cars (that's what I can compare best anyway), has an insane number of great looking and authentic cars, good selection of tracks, and very smooth graphics and realistic lighting, has 6 cars on track. You can still use the great Driving Force Pro wheel with it and it supports this with realistic force feedback and 900 degree mode.
Forza looks good, has some very nice cars, great looking tracks, looks to be having some great tuning and decal options, is a bit off on the actual modelling and color representation and could be very realistic, and has 8 cars on track. As long as there aren't any decent wheels and force feedback support that's going to pay off in a very very limited way and is quite pointless, I'm sorry to say (because I do own an Xbox you see?).
I'm secretly hoping that the Xbox version of GTR ends up being released and that they somehow manage to support the DF Pro on it, that would be great. The downside of PCs is that the experience isn't equal for all drivers, which makes the competition aspect of it less fun. Once you start driving at really high levels everything counts. With our PS2 competitions and Xbox live events, everyone has pretty much the same setup and performance, and that's really great.
elitewolverine
Heh, I just had to comment on this, I don't think I've seen as much information put into one sentence before. Oh, no wait, two!
I'm really starting to think that I've been playing a different game than everyone else. People say that the cars in GT3 look fake and the physics are really poor. I can't say if the cars handle true to life, since I haven't driven them, but I find the cars handle believably. Someone mentioned Steering and Brake Assist? You can turn those off from the main menu. While I usually turn ASC off (except for maybe high-powered mid-engined cars, I'm not crazy), I quite often leave the Traction Control on with a single point in order to combat wheelspin. You can't spin in GT? I beg to differ, I turned off the traction control with my fully-tuned 300ZX and spun the wheels up to fourth gear. Every turn I had to be cautious on gas or else I would have gone off the track.So, are people playing a different game? I'm confused because obviously I've had a different experience than some.
elitewolverine
This is merely a difference of opinion and once again shows why it is good to have a variety of games to cater to different people. I love the GT games because the are the type who have the Prius in them. I think that's awesome! No other game has that. Nobody's going to get GT4 thinking they're going to race a car from 1886 against a Corvette or Viper. GT4, to me, is a celebration of the automobile. It has everything from humble commuter cars to the fastest racing cars. That's what makes it special. Who else would put a photography simulator in a racing game? That's innovative! I love photography and I can hardly wait to take pictures of my favorite cars and show them off. As well, I'm the kind of guy who will purchase or win every single car in GT4 and pay to tune them up. Therefore, GT4 will be a great value to me; I'm still playing GT3 two and a half years after I bought it.
This is in no way meant to disparage Forza. I am sure that Forza will be a tremendous game and if I had an Xbox, I would certainly buy it for myself. In fact, if you want to quantify it, Forza may even be the better racing game. I'm willing to admit that by adding in the extras that they have, PD might have sacrificed the racing aspect of GT4 a bit. But that's not the point. Each of these games will be great games in their own right.
Forza will be a great game for people to race cars. GT4 will be a great game for people to enjoy cars.
