Forza
- Thread starter GT Obsession
- 2,956 comments
- 163,714 views
kinigitt
It's 60 tracks in Forza according to this Gamespot preview
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/driving/forzamotorsport/preview_6110880.html
Official Track List:
Alpine Ring
Alpine Ring - Drift
Asian Spring Time
Autocross
Autocross10
Autocross11
Autocross2
Autocross3
Autocross4
Autocross5
Autocross6
Autocross7
Autocross8
Autocross9
Blue Mountains Raceway
Blue Mountains Raceway - Drift
Blue Mountains Raceway (Reverse)
Elkhart Lake - Road America
Elkhart Lake - Road America - Drift
Fijimi Kaido
Fijimi Kaido (Reverse)
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 1)
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 1) - Drift
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 1) (Reverse)
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 1) (Reverse) - Drift
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 2)
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 2) - Drift
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 2) (Reverse)
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 2) (Reverse) - Drift
Grail24
Laguna Seca - Andretti Hairpin
Laguna Seca - Corkscrew
Laguna Seca - Drift
Maple Valley
Maple Valley - Drift
Maple Valley (Short Course)
Maple Valley Wet (debug)
Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca (R)
New York
New York - Drift
New York (Short Course) (Reverse)
Nürburgring
Nürburgring (Section A)
Nürburgring (Section A) - Drift
Nürburgring (Section B)
Nürburgring (Section B) - Drift
Nürburgring (Section C)
Nürburgring (Section C) - Drift
Nürburgring (Section D)
Nürburgring (Section D) - Drift
Pacific Shipyards
Pacific Shipyards - Drift
Pacific Shipyards (Reverse)
Physics
Rio De Janeiro
Rio De Janeiro - Drift
Road Atlanta
Road Atlanta - Drift
Road Atlanta (Short Course)
Silverstone
Silverstone (Short Course)
Silverstone (Short Course) - Drift
Sunset Peninsula Drag Strip
Sunset Peninsula Road Course
Sunset Peninsula Road Course - Drift
Sunset Peninsula Speedway
Test Oval
Test Track
Test Track (Reverse)
Test Track Drag
TestTrack2
Tokyo Circuit
Tokyo Circuit - Drift
Tsukuba Circuit
Tsukuba Circuit - Drift
Alpine Ring
Alpine Ring - Drift
Asian Spring Time
Autocross
Autocross10
Autocross11
Autocross2
Autocross3
Autocross4
Autocross5
Autocross6
Autocross7
Autocross8
Autocross9
Blue Mountains Raceway
Blue Mountains Raceway - Drift
Blue Mountains Raceway (Reverse)
Elkhart Lake - Road America
Elkhart Lake - Road America - Drift
Fijimi Kaido
Fijimi Kaido (Reverse)
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 1)
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 1) - Drift
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 1) (Reverse)
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 1) (Reverse) - Drift
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 2)
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 2) - Drift
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 2) (Reverse)
Fijimi Kaido (Stage 2) (Reverse) - Drift
Grail24
Laguna Seca - Andretti Hairpin
Laguna Seca - Corkscrew
Laguna Seca - Drift
Maple Valley
Maple Valley - Drift
Maple Valley (Short Course)
Maple Valley Wet (debug)
Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca (R)
New York
New York - Drift
New York (Short Course) (Reverse)
Nürburgring
Nürburgring (Section A)
Nürburgring (Section A) - Drift
Nürburgring (Section B)
Nürburgring (Section B) - Drift
Nürburgring (Section C)
Nürburgring (Section C) - Drift
Nürburgring (Section D)
Nürburgring (Section D) - Drift
Pacific Shipyards
Pacific Shipyards - Drift
Pacific Shipyards (Reverse)
Physics
Rio De Janeiro
Rio De Janeiro - Drift
Road Atlanta
Road Atlanta - Drift
Road Atlanta (Short Course)
Silverstone
Silverstone (Short Course)
Silverstone (Short Course) - Drift
Sunset Peninsula Drag Strip
Sunset Peninsula Road Course
Sunset Peninsula Road Course - Drift
Sunset Peninsula Speedway
Test Oval
Test Track
Test Track (Reverse)
Test Track Drag
TestTrack2
Tokyo Circuit
Tokyo Circuit - Drift
Tsukuba Circuit
Tsukuba Circuit - Drift
- 3,802
GT looks sparse, RSC2 looks lush. Go on, argue the point all you want. I'm right. I think it's a simple case of some PS2 fanboys crying at the fact that a console with more power can do better graphics, which is pretty obvious when you think about it. RSC2 is a VERY VERY VERY high quality game, I really can't emphisise this enough, you can tell that the devs have put in a ridiculous number of hours into it getting it just right. Play the game on a decent tv, then come back and tell me that it looks crap
. OFC if this game was on the ps2 and looked the same, I bet you a kajillion pounds the opinions would be very different...."oh look, those moutains 5 miles away have a "jabby" edges on this poor screenshot, GT has NO jabs, yes jabs jabs jabs"
Oh man, try harder, at least the mountains ARE 3d, and not a jpeg...
Oh and the cars don't look like the are made of paper, if anything they look more solid because they are self shadowing, have brilliant interiors, and shed loads of glorious detail.
Oh and CM2005 is a bag of **** compared to it. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is a blatent fool.
This actually made me lo in rl, I thought you wrote it that badly as a joke...but upon further reading, it looks like you might actually think this....oh dear.
Code Key, RSC2 may look better but GT is a bigger game. GT4 is attempting to do more than any other racing game before it in the context of having more cars and tracks. Whilst RSC2 may look better, its not really fair to compare them.
Forza is a better comparison......Hang on, is'nt this supposed to be a Forza thread anyway?...
Forza is a better comparison......Hang on, is'nt this supposed to be a Forza thread anyway?...
Here goes the anti-microsoft or the japanese makes it better speech crap. I have play GT4 prologue and GT4 Japanese demo. I can tell you that the game still look like a PS2 games. (Low-res texture, no anisotropic, no anti-aliaising, almost no particle effect when car goes offroad). It's not even in the same league of RSC2 visually.
Forza demo had washup color and some car looked plastic. I will agree with that. We are talking about a really old build here. Don't forget also it's the first title in the series. PD took all the model of GT3 and optimized them. As far as the "driving factor", from the gameplay that I experience, GT4 was still too forgiving and I think that Forza, Enthusia and GTR will be a better "SIM" experience this year.
Nonetheless, GT4 will be a great product like all the previous one. I think Forza, Enthusia and GTR will also be a great product.
Forza demo had washup color and some car looked plastic. I will agree with that. We are talking about a really old build here. Don't forget also it's the first title in the series. PD took all the model of GT3 and optimized them. As far as the "driving factor", from the gameplay that I experience, GT4 was still too forgiving and I think that Forza, Enthusia and GTR will be a better "SIM" experience this year.
Nonetheless, GT4 will be a great product like all the previous one. I think Forza, Enthusia and GTR will also be a great product.
- 660
Who cares about forza OR gt4. They are a long time away. right now i got RSC2 and thats all i care about. 
- 3,420
Will you all just give up on the visuals debate? How can you honestly compare gt4 to forza or rsc2? Do both of those games even look realistic? They might have the detail but they lack the right look and comparing gt4 to them is not right. Gt4 looks too realistic to be compared to forza or rsc2, not trying to discourage forza or rsc2's visuals but they just dont look right and I dont see why you all are getting worked up. If you prefer arcade style visuals, rsc2 or forza will impress you but if you like realistic visuals, gt4 is what you want.
And I suggest you all who doubt gt4's visuals roll over to the backfire thread and see some of the vids there. Like I said, gt4 looks too realistic to be compared to arcade games.
And I thought symtex wasn't bias but he's another xb fanboy it seems
http://forums.gamespot.com/gamespot/show_messages.php?board=314159282&topic=17994351&page=0
honestly, that's the dumbest thing I have ever read from him. how could anyone look plastic? How could you go wrong with realistic visuals, in a racer!?
And I suggest you all who doubt gt4's visuals roll over to the backfire thread and see some of the vids there. Like I said, gt4 looks too realistic to be compared to arcade games.
And I thought symtex wasn't bias but he's another xb fanboy it seems
http://forums.gamespot.com/gamespot/show_messages.php?board=314159282&topic=17994351&page=0
honestly, that's the dumbest thing I have ever read from him. how could anyone look plastic? How could you go wrong with realistic visuals, in a racer!?
- 2,461
all that RSC2 comparison crap was brought up because it's the high watermark as far ax xbox racer visuals go. And yes it does look better than GT3, it's just a fact. More hardware muscle can do that.
Is it fair to compare it to GT3, on a weaker system, that was released almost 4 years ago? No, not really, but people foolishly say GT3 has better graphics, so the debate ensued.
Is it fair to compare it to GT3, on a weaker system, that was released almost 4 years ago? No, not really, but people foolishly say GT3 has better graphics, so the debate ensued.
- 587
whew that was a sweet thread at gamespot - I like how everyone researches what others have said in the past so they can argue sentences taken out of context!
Anyway, I had RSC2 but I sold it on ebay because the gameplay sucked (in my opinion). The PS2 is old, and sony doesn't sell their consoles at a loss. That means that when the PS2 came out, it cost sony the same or less to make it as they charged. Microsoft lost money out the nose on every xbox they sold in order to put better hardware in it, and it is a newer-generation console. I'm not making any arguments yet, just stating facts framing my argument.
Heres the argument: A game isn't anything without gameplay. If I want to watch lifelike race cars go around a track, I will turn on speed tv. If I want to drive a car around a track in a lifelike manner, I will take my car to the track or play GT4. forza and enthusia may or may not have lifelike gameplay, but dollars to doughnuts says GT4 outdoes them to the point of embarrasment.
Anyway, I had RSC2 but I sold it on ebay because the gameplay sucked (in my opinion). The PS2 is old, and sony doesn't sell their consoles at a loss. That means that when the PS2 came out, it cost sony the same or less to make it as they charged. Microsoft lost money out the nose on every xbox they sold in order to put better hardware in it, and it is a newer-generation console. I'm not making any arguments yet, just stating facts framing my argument.
Heres the argument: A game isn't anything without gameplay. If I want to watch lifelike race cars go around a track, I will turn on speed tv. If I want to drive a car around a track in a lifelike manner, I will take my car to the track or play GT4. forza and enthusia may or may not have lifelike gameplay, but dollars to doughnuts says GT4 outdoes them to the point of embarrasment.
- 30
Dear god i just read from start to finish, EVERY POST, thats what 1,100 posts, took me freaking 4hours, my eyes are bloodshot and my mouth cottoned to death, i need a shot of vodka after all that.
I have owned GT1 GT2 GT3, truthfully i owned PS2 soley for GT3 and to this date have not bought another game for that system, i have got every car in the game some 112 i believe it came out to be, did everything and eventually burned the laser out on my PS2 because of this one game.
But here is my stance on GT series, the first time i played the original was when i got my license, i was so excited and went to it immediatelly looked up my car in the game, nothing to be found i was dissapointed that America was not fully in the game, although i understood this came from japan so i let that flaw go away, at that point i fell in love with the GT series, truthfully has ruined every racing game to date i have tried out (rally and other special games excluded), it set a standard so HIGH, nothing really compared to it. But with each game came its flaws and with each one i still loved it. GT2 was my favorite, something about driving saleen SR mustang around redrock in 50secs...or midfield raceway, oh gotta love that track. When GT3 out i was actually dissapointed, the cars were so lacking i really didnt want to play the game, but i did and i fell in love with PD's magic. But since it had no rival i really had no choice but to love or hate the game and put all its flaws aside (which there are many many flaws).
i since then have purchased a xbox, always been a power freek, AMD FX-53 6800gt audigy 2 platinum surround sound, ive just been so spoiled in reality (and i gave that computer as charity to my local school for computer courses) still have one slick machine though
. And the graphics power from PS2 to XBOX is apparent, im not ragging on the PS2, but you can tell that gap in technology, i dont own every title for xbox to be exact i have 7games for xbox, accumulated over 3yrs, thats right SEVEN, i have bought and played more but in the end after three years all i have is SEVEN. to get this out of my system PS2 has a huge gaming list, but honestly i dont play everygame you cant play everygame and say it was satisfying, unless you have no life which in term i say cheers mate. I look for specific games, one first and foremost Racing games, why? GT series, and to be honest i never owned a PS1, i halfowned one if that counts. I always played pc games more thanks to mechwarrior2 and so forth in that series. But whether i like it or not being a slight ps fanboy the system is showing its age, now someone could call me a xbox fanboy, i think its because the way i point out other flaws, hmm oh well.
GT4 vs. Forza, well first i was looking towards GT4, i have always look towards their games, but after seeing the car list, i was dissapointed, i wanted 300 quality cars not 650+ cars of which are honda beats and golf carts and a prius, come on i sayed PD this is a racing game, at that point i started looking for a racer on XBOX, and because of GT i was spoiled, PGR PGR2 Sega GT all were good games especially online, but they lacked that PD magic that tunability magic (even though GT series wasnt the best tuning it was indepth).
then i saw forza, then i read about forza, then i put the specs up for both games and i looked at my ps2 and said my friend you are a dying icon, cheers to you for giving me countless college dorm playtime at laguna seca just to give me that .001sec difference in my fastest lap or at midfield....
Forza pros and cons, i have videos on the net of me driving i will post the links at the end for you to enjoy, they are done on a digi cam and knocked down in resolution for dialups, and to the fact its on a 32" old style TV.
Damage: one thing i have always wanted in GT
Realism: the ps controller is so limiting in that aspect for the first time i cant smash the gas in a viper, i actually have to worry about wheel spin in fact if you do research in magazines on how to launch a Viper GTS ACR you will find that in the game its almost exactly the same, which is scary real
Graphics: man oh man oh man, PC graphics really shine in this one, for once i can say a game has surpased GT3 and GT4(from in game videos and screen shots not devs) in terms of realism...imo
Physics: dear god, each corner of the car is accurately modeled, each car has something different, i do autox here in my town, i got the privliage to drive a viper on a open day track and let me tell you this game is a very realistic representation of that car, GT3 did a good job but it never quite had that feel of yup this is a real car, forza has done it for me
Lighting: the fact that this has lighting that the ps simply cant do is enough for me, plus when in game they look so good i just love it im spoiled with realistic lighting.
Tire marks: finally got them and finally got scrapped paint.
cons: not enough cars not enough tracks (in the demo) hell the fact that its not the real game yet damn you febuary.
realistic look, here is what i dont get, the tracks are GPS data accurate, and mathmatically accurate, the cars are as well in fact the cars are the most accurate in terms of mathmatically than any game current, so how is it that a mathmatically correct enviorment and car and well everything look fake? no offense but GT series have never look realistic to me, they look like they were left in the sun to long and the paint dulled and a few other nitpics...
has anyone ever seen cars in a car show? dear god they will blind you. Plastic look? you do know everycar currently made is well made of plastic on the outside? so how can they not look shiny and plastic? thats what they look like in real life. After i was my car and wax it i seriously blind myself, its to shiny i think it looks great but man it does a number on my eyes, same thing in forza so plastic i hope so thats what they are made of or a composit of plastic shiny i hope so cuz my real life car blinds the crap out of me after i wax that puppy, and its 4yrs old.
GT4 to me is a polished up GT3, i know its going to be reworked but the PS2 has limits and i was affraid GT4 would hit them, it did, no reverse lights not enough graphics power, physics and ai are limited by computing power and onboard memory, and to me GT4 brought nothing and i mean nothing new to its genre, new tracks? yes new cars? yes (to many imo) new ai? to a extent new physics? to a extent...
Forza has had a unique opportunity on a unique system and if all goes well i really cant see how people will say gt will be better except for brand loyalty and preference of track (ie midfield) and the selection of 650cars.
after reading everything the developers have to say about the Robot Learning AI, and ferrari F1 assisted physics engine, and toyo tire modeling engine from pressure to heat to even load pressure physics on the tires, has just got me so excited, its everything i have wanted in the GT series since GT2 but have been let down since.
For me forza will be that GT that i have always wanted, and for that simple fact and from playing the 'old' demo GT series is going to have to do something short of a miracle to get me to buy gt4 and a ps2 since mine gave out.
this is not to say GT4 graphics sucks, by far the opposite, they have managed to make that PS2 look fantastic with very little, granted its candy trickery its a very nice art team some of the best if not the best that has allowed them to. This is also not to state that GT4 sucks gameplay, far from it, GT4 will be a great game and for about 80% of its fans will be the KING till GT5, but unfortunately for me having been spoiled by the xbox and xbox live and a PC, GT4 has brought nothing new to the table (freakin photo shop, come on i never even watch the replays more or less take freakin pictures, that was a waiste of space imo) they have gotten fat from no competition. Forza is everything i have wanted in GT series and more, hopefully PD will recognize forza as a very serious threat and in GT5 on a PS3 bring back that magic that has been gone since GT2.
i am the racer from forzacentral that owns the most fastest lap times in the times to beat forum http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191
the videos are not the record setting times but are really close (done on different days) although the video of my Viper is the fastest time so far anywhere on the net plz enjoy.
NSX
http://home.comcast.net/~elitewolverine/NSX.WMV
Modena
http://home.comcast.net/~elitewolverine/360.WMV
Viper
http://home.comcast.net/~elitewolverine/Viper128460.WMV
PS. these vids are in no way to show off the power of forza, just for anybody with a demo here to try and beat
, this was done on a crappy tv with a mediocore Camera and then even downgraded to save space for my own website from which these are loaded, although dialup users will be happy
I have owned GT1 GT2 GT3, truthfully i owned PS2 soley for GT3 and to this date have not bought another game for that system, i have got every car in the game some 112 i believe it came out to be, did everything and eventually burned the laser out on my PS2 because of this one game.
But here is my stance on GT series, the first time i played the original was when i got my license, i was so excited and went to it immediatelly looked up my car in the game, nothing to be found i was dissapointed that America was not fully in the game, although i understood this came from japan so i let that flaw go away, at that point i fell in love with the GT series, truthfully has ruined every racing game to date i have tried out (rally and other special games excluded), it set a standard so HIGH, nothing really compared to it. But with each game came its flaws and with each one i still loved it. GT2 was my favorite, something about driving saleen SR mustang around redrock in 50secs...or midfield raceway, oh gotta love that track. When GT3 out i was actually dissapointed, the cars were so lacking i really didnt want to play the game, but i did and i fell in love with PD's magic. But since it had no rival i really had no choice but to love or hate the game and put all its flaws aside (which there are many many flaws).
i since then have purchased a xbox, always been a power freek, AMD FX-53 6800gt audigy 2 platinum surround sound, ive just been so spoiled in reality (and i gave that computer as charity to my local school for computer courses) still have one slick machine though
. And the graphics power from PS2 to XBOX is apparent, im not ragging on the PS2, but you can tell that gap in technology, i dont own every title for xbox to be exact i have 7games for xbox, accumulated over 3yrs, thats right SEVEN, i have bought and played more but in the end after three years all i have is SEVEN. to get this out of my system PS2 has a huge gaming list, but honestly i dont play everygame you cant play everygame and say it was satisfying, unless you have no life which in term i say cheers mate. I look for specific games, one first and foremost Racing games, why? GT series, and to be honest i never owned a PS1, i halfowned one if that counts. I always played pc games more thanks to mechwarrior2 and so forth in that series. But whether i like it or not being a slight ps fanboy the system is showing its age, now someone could call me a xbox fanboy, i think its because the way i point out other flaws, hmm oh well.GT4 vs. Forza, well first i was looking towards GT4, i have always look towards their games, but after seeing the car list, i was dissapointed, i wanted 300 quality cars not 650+ cars of which are honda beats and golf carts and a prius, come on i sayed PD this is a racing game, at that point i started looking for a racer on XBOX, and because of GT i was spoiled, PGR PGR2 Sega GT all were good games especially online, but they lacked that PD magic that tunability magic (even though GT series wasnt the best tuning it was indepth).
then i saw forza, then i read about forza, then i put the specs up for both games and i looked at my ps2 and said my friend you are a dying icon, cheers to you for giving me countless college dorm playtime at laguna seca just to give me that .001sec difference in my fastest lap or at midfield....
Forza pros and cons, i have videos on the net of me driving i will post the links at the end for you to enjoy, they are done on a digi cam and knocked down in resolution for dialups, and to the fact its on a 32" old style TV.
Damage: one thing i have always wanted in GT
Realism: the ps controller is so limiting in that aspect for the first time i cant smash the gas in a viper, i actually have to worry about wheel spin in fact if you do research in magazines on how to launch a Viper GTS ACR you will find that in the game its almost exactly the same, which is scary real
Graphics: man oh man oh man, PC graphics really shine in this one, for once i can say a game has surpased GT3 and GT4(from in game videos and screen shots not devs) in terms of realism...imo
Physics: dear god, each corner of the car is accurately modeled, each car has something different, i do autox here in my town, i got the privliage to drive a viper on a open day track and let me tell you this game is a very realistic representation of that car, GT3 did a good job but it never quite had that feel of yup this is a real car, forza has done it for me
Lighting: the fact that this has lighting that the ps simply cant do is enough for me, plus when in game they look so good i just love it im spoiled with realistic lighting.
Tire marks: finally got them and finally got scrapped paint.
cons: not enough cars not enough tracks (in the demo) hell the fact that its not the real game yet damn you febuary.
realistic look, here is what i dont get, the tracks are GPS data accurate, and mathmatically accurate, the cars are as well in fact the cars are the most accurate in terms of mathmatically than any game current, so how is it that a mathmatically correct enviorment and car and well everything look fake? no offense but GT series have never look realistic to me, they look like they were left in the sun to long and the paint dulled and a few other nitpics...
has anyone ever seen cars in a car show? dear god they will blind you. Plastic look? you do know everycar currently made is well made of plastic on the outside? so how can they not look shiny and plastic? thats what they look like in real life. After i was my car and wax it i seriously blind myself, its to shiny i think it looks great but man it does a number on my eyes, same thing in forza so plastic i hope so thats what they are made of or a composit of plastic shiny i hope so cuz my real life car blinds the crap out of me after i wax that puppy, and its 4yrs old.
GT4 to me is a polished up GT3, i know its going to be reworked but the PS2 has limits and i was affraid GT4 would hit them, it did, no reverse lights not enough graphics power, physics and ai are limited by computing power and onboard memory, and to me GT4 brought nothing and i mean nothing new to its genre, new tracks? yes new cars? yes (to many imo) new ai? to a extent new physics? to a extent...
Forza has had a unique opportunity on a unique system and if all goes well i really cant see how people will say gt will be better except for brand loyalty and preference of track (ie midfield) and the selection of 650cars.
after reading everything the developers have to say about the Robot Learning AI, and ferrari F1 assisted physics engine, and toyo tire modeling engine from pressure to heat to even load pressure physics on the tires, has just got me so excited, its everything i have wanted in the GT series since GT2 but have been let down since.
For me forza will be that GT that i have always wanted, and for that simple fact and from playing the 'old' demo GT series is going to have to do something short of a miracle to get me to buy gt4 and a ps2 since mine gave out.
this is not to say GT4 graphics sucks, by far the opposite, they have managed to make that PS2 look fantastic with very little, granted its candy trickery its a very nice art team some of the best if not the best that has allowed them to. This is also not to state that GT4 sucks gameplay, far from it, GT4 will be a great game and for about 80% of its fans will be the KING till GT5, but unfortunately for me having been spoiled by the xbox and xbox live and a PC, GT4 has brought nothing new to the table (freakin photo shop, come on i never even watch the replays more or less take freakin pictures, that was a waiste of space imo) they have gotten fat from no competition. Forza is everything i have wanted in GT series and more, hopefully PD will recognize forza as a very serious threat and in GT5 on a PS3 bring back that magic that has been gone since GT2.
i am the racer from forzacentral that owns the most fastest lap times in the times to beat forum http://www.forzacentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191
the videos are not the record setting times but are really close (done on different days) although the video of my Viper is the fastest time so far anywhere on the net plz enjoy.
NSX
http://home.comcast.net/~elitewolverine/NSX.WMV
Modena
http://home.comcast.net/~elitewolverine/360.WMV
Viper
http://home.comcast.net/~elitewolverine/Viper128460.WMV
PS. these vids are in no way to show off the power of forza, just for anybody with a demo here to try and beat
, this was done on a crappy tv with a mediocore Camera and then even downgraded to save space for my own website from which these are loaded, although dialup users will be happy- 264
I've always found the PS2 controller to be better... I can't get over the two analogue sticks being in asymetrical locations on the Xbox pad. Plus the fact the shoulder buttons are majorly analogue.
When I use a pad for a driving game I want the shoulder buttons for shifting and I want the analogue sticks in the right positions. Thankfully now I have a DFP I couldn't care less about the control pad.
The key word you misplaced was racing... GT4 does not claim to be a racing game, but a driving game. A game filled purely with racing cars is just as boring as a game filled with purely sports cars. I love the car selection in GT4 so far... I don't really care what cars they continue to add as long as they add them. The variation is so great that one day you will almost never be bored. Unless of course all you want to ever drive is a Ferrari... in which case I pity you cause there are far more fun cars out there.
The only thing Forza has that would be nice in GT4 is engine swapping.. and even that will technically be possible as it has been in previous GT games... so I don't think most GT4 players will be getting bored anytime soon.. with or without online play. It's going to take weeks just to learn the Nordschleife and then start pulling out some good laps...
As for the guy that said GT3 single player was boring... nah it wasn't that boring... and as for winning unique coloured cars... I always enjoyed that... going for the special colour scheme'd S2000's etc... There were plenty of uber cars to win that you could not get without winning races so there was a balance. Most of my time in GT3 was spent on timetrials driving alone just enjoying cars on great tracks... same will probably happen in GT4...
I could never see myself doing the same in Forza... even if it's trying to be a sim it still has arcade written all over it.
When I use a pad for a driving game I want the shoulder buttons for shifting and I want the analogue sticks in the right positions. Thankfully now I have a DFP I couldn't care less about the control pad.
The key word you misplaced was racing... GT4 does not claim to be a racing game, but a driving game. A game filled purely with racing cars is just as boring as a game filled with purely sports cars. I love the car selection in GT4 so far... I don't really care what cars they continue to add as long as they add them. The variation is so great that one day you will almost never be bored. Unless of course all you want to ever drive is a Ferrari... in which case I pity you cause there are far more fun cars out there.
The only thing Forza has that would be nice in GT4 is engine swapping.. and even that will technically be possible as it has been in previous GT games... so I don't think most GT4 players will be getting bored anytime soon.. with or without online play. It's going to take weeks just to learn the Nordschleife and then start pulling out some good laps...
As for the guy that said GT3 single player was boring... nah it wasn't that boring... and as for winning unique coloured cars... I always enjoyed that... going for the special colour scheme'd S2000's etc... There were plenty of uber cars to win that you could not get without winning races so there was a balance. Most of my time in GT3 was spent on timetrials driving alone just enjoying cars on great tracks... same will probably happen in GT4...
I could never see myself doing the same in Forza... even if it's trying to be a sim it still has arcade written all over it.
Cobra_UK
(Banned)
- 422
Interesting post elitewolverine.
The truth is that FM or GT4 have pros and cons but these are obviously dependant on what the players wants, of their individual view.
I for one am far from convinced FM will quench my thirst for the ultimate racing/driving game. Unlike you I'm very much interested in replay options, ultra-realistic visuals and large number of cars and tracks. So far FM is not quite on par with GT4 in those departments and to be honest I did not and don't expect it to be. BUT FM also offers things that GT has failed to do since the release of the first GT, like highly advanced AI, damage, ultra-realistic physics and custom paint and body work options and online.
I am torn between these 2 games. When they're released I'll play them both until summer on friends consoles and decide on the one that I will go for. It will be a hard decision. I has to be one or the other because my life's very busy and I won't have time to do both properly.
Alow me to explain the visuals debate between GT4 and FM.
In GT due to lack of computing power to generate realistic lighting, especially at 60FPS, the very clever developers have gone for a dull ensemble that never quite "shines" as elitewolverine puts it but it conveys the picture in a very realistic way. More importantly they actually went into ridiculous hardship to create textures based on pictures of the real cars and tracks. Though not high on polygon count from certain angles it looks almost real. Yes it's visual trickery but it works. They've done this since the first GT. PD have the experience, dedication, development time and pure passion to do this. Besides they followed this formula for more that 6 years and they're pretty good at it now. Today, now, there is no computer that can create a 3D object, render it correctly in real-time and make it look real. It's why visual trickery is employed. However to create such an extensive library of real photo-textures and real recorded sounds and real location feel takes a incredible amount of time, effort and dedication. PD have this, there is no question.
Now, in FM the extra computing power and 30FPS rate allow for phenomenal high polygon landscape and cars. The lighting is also real-time and thus correct and outstanding.BUT Not realistic. Why? Because it's not raytracing and even with high super-computer raytracing realistic lighting is very hard to achieve. Thus it will never look realistic like GT4. So FM has all it needs to beat GT4 and it's more correct than GT4 in nearly every aspect. BUT It's missing something. It's 3 years in the making, if that. And it pieces together well but it would not be fair to compare it to GT4. This being said it will be some serious competition to GT4 and it will more than likely steal a lot of GT fans.
Future? Well if FM sells well, and it's developers will learn from PD it's sequel on the XBOX2 could be phenomenal. BUT if by then the PS3 will be released and if it matches the XBOX2 in power PD will make a GT5 that will be hard if not impossible to beat.
Now to my individual opinion. After so long waiting for GT5 and it's constant delays it better deliver. If f it doesn't and FM is a worthy competitor I will buy FM to give GT series some competition in the hope that the next GT will be a bit more attentive to what the gaming community wants in terms of features.
The truth is that FM or GT4 have pros and cons but these are obviously dependant on what the players wants, of their individual view.
I for one am far from convinced FM will quench my thirst for the ultimate racing/driving game. Unlike you I'm very much interested in replay options, ultra-realistic visuals and large number of cars and tracks. So far FM is not quite on par with GT4 in those departments and to be honest I did not and don't expect it to be. BUT FM also offers things that GT has failed to do since the release of the first GT, like highly advanced AI, damage, ultra-realistic physics and custom paint and body work options and online.
I am torn between these 2 games. When they're released I'll play them both until summer on friends consoles and decide on the one that I will go for. It will be a hard decision. I has to be one or the other because my life's very busy and I won't have time to do both properly.
Alow me to explain the visuals debate between GT4 and FM.
In GT due to lack of computing power to generate realistic lighting, especially at 60FPS, the very clever developers have gone for a dull ensemble that never quite "shines" as elitewolverine puts it but it conveys the picture in a very realistic way. More importantly they actually went into ridiculous hardship to create textures based on pictures of the real cars and tracks. Though not high on polygon count from certain angles it looks almost real. Yes it's visual trickery but it works. They've done this since the first GT. PD have the experience, dedication, development time and pure passion to do this. Besides they followed this formula for more that 6 years and they're pretty good at it now. Today, now, there is no computer that can create a 3D object, render it correctly in real-time and make it look real. It's why visual trickery is employed. However to create such an extensive library of real photo-textures and real recorded sounds and real location feel takes a incredible amount of time, effort and dedication. PD have this, there is no question.
Now, in FM the extra computing power and 30FPS rate allow for phenomenal high polygon landscape and cars. The lighting is also real-time and thus correct and outstanding.BUT Not realistic. Why? Because it's not raytracing and even with high super-computer raytracing realistic lighting is very hard to achieve. Thus it will never look realistic like GT4. So FM has all it needs to beat GT4 and it's more correct than GT4 in nearly every aspect. BUT It's missing something. It's 3 years in the making, if that. And it pieces together well but it would not be fair to compare it to GT4. This being said it will be some serious competition to GT4 and it will more than likely steal a lot of GT fans.
Future? Well if FM sells well, and it's developers will learn from PD it's sequel on the XBOX2 could be phenomenal. BUT if by then the PS3 will be released and if it matches the XBOX2 in power PD will make a GT5 that will be hard if not impossible to beat.
Now to my individual opinion. After so long waiting for GT5 and it's constant delays it better deliver. If f it doesn't and FM is a worthy competitor I will buy FM to give GT series some competition in the hope that the next GT will be a bit more attentive to what the gaming community wants in terms of features.
- 264
So far people have said the AI in Forza is not that great, and no AI will ever be 'highly advanced' in the way we all want it to be.
As for damage... yeah it offers a few visual bits of damage which are mostly extremely unrealistic based on what caused them. It also offers performance altering damage, again it's pretty unrealistic based on what caused it. It will in the end frustrate a lot of people... what's the point in having damage that isn't very realistic? Great.. Burnout had damage... your car gets smashed to pieces for a 2second cutscene type crash animation then magically you're fine again. If I crash with damage on I want my car to get damaged how it would in reality.. I want to be knocked out of the race if the crash is bad enough etc... I hate crashing into a wall seeing a major animation and loads of damage on my car but then pull out my best lap on the following lap... there is no point. May as well have no damage and concentrate on the physics and make the driving the enjoyable part.
You mentioned ultra realistic physics... sorry I have yet to see ultra realistic physics from Forza... I've seen good physics but nothing amazing.
Custom paint and bodywork.. yeah cause this is really important to 'drive' a car. If you want rice I suggest you buy NFSU2... GT4 has said it will include some aero mods... and you do realise that quite a few of the parts PD have designed for the GT series car manufacturers like so much they have actually made them in real life.
Also... with the GT5/Forza2 thing... we are talking Microsoft and PD here. MS churn out sequels almost as fast as EA... so you may even see Forza2 on the Xbox in about a year... Or at the very least it will be on Xbox2 when the console first comes out. With GT5 you're gonna be waiting a long time because of how much they are going to have to add to it. You've seen how long it has taken on the PS2 where they are limited in a lot of things they can do... if they are indeed going to add damage and other funky things in GT5 we are looking at adding at least a year onto the development cycle... as well as the pressure for yet more cars, even nicer graphics, better physics and even more options.
Forza2 will be out far in advance of GT5.
As for damage... yeah it offers a few visual bits of damage which are mostly extremely unrealistic based on what caused them. It also offers performance altering damage, again it's pretty unrealistic based on what caused it. It will in the end frustrate a lot of people... what's the point in having damage that isn't very realistic? Great.. Burnout had damage... your car gets smashed to pieces for a 2second cutscene type crash animation then magically you're fine again. If I crash with damage on I want my car to get damaged how it would in reality.. I want to be knocked out of the race if the crash is bad enough etc... I hate crashing into a wall seeing a major animation and loads of damage on my car but then pull out my best lap on the following lap... there is no point. May as well have no damage and concentrate on the physics and make the driving the enjoyable part.
You mentioned ultra realistic physics... sorry I have yet to see ultra realistic physics from Forza... I've seen good physics but nothing amazing.
Custom paint and bodywork.. yeah cause this is really important to 'drive' a car. If you want rice I suggest you buy NFSU2... GT4 has said it will include some aero mods... and you do realise that quite a few of the parts PD have designed for the GT series car manufacturers like so much they have actually made them in real life.
Also... with the GT5/Forza2 thing... we are talking Microsoft and PD here. MS churn out sequels almost as fast as EA... so you may even see Forza2 on the Xbox in about a year... Or at the very least it will be on Xbox2 when the console first comes out. With GT5 you're gonna be waiting a long time because of how much they are going to have to add to it. You've seen how long it has taken on the PS2 where they are limited in a lot of things they can do... if they are indeed going to add damage and other funky things in GT5 we are looking at adding at least a year onto the development cycle... as well as the pressure for yet more cars, even nicer graphics, better physics and even more options.
Forza2 will be out far in advance of GT5.
Cobra_UK
(Banned)
- 422
You see Ubiquitous how I said "interesting post elitewolverine". I respected his opinion and although I did not agree with some of his points I did not tell him that he should go play something else if he would like features added to GT4 that I don't care for.
I also respect your opinion but it's your opinion and a lot of people still yearn for some of the options I mentioned since the very first GT. You may ridicule these features and say they mean nothing but it's your opinion and your preference. Don't generalise. I simply stated the fact that these features will be included in FM.
Also I never said that GT5 and FM2 will be released at the same time.
Lastly the AI and physics of FM on paper are superior to GT4. They are also well ahead anything that has been done before in a racing/driving simulation so they're gonna be pretty amazing. Since neither game has been released yet, we are working on that...
All you've done is acted like just another fan-boy and bashed everything to do with FM.
I also respect your opinion but it's your opinion and a lot of people still yearn for some of the options I mentioned since the very first GT. You may ridicule these features and say they mean nothing but it's your opinion and your preference. Don't generalise. I simply stated the fact that these features will be included in FM.
Also I never said that GT5 and FM2 will be released at the same time.
Lastly the AI and physics of FM on paper are superior to GT4. They are also well ahead anything that has been done before in a racing/driving simulation so they're gonna be pretty amazing. Since neither game has been released yet, we are working on that...
All you've done is acted like just another fan-boy and bashed everything to do with FM.
- 27,387
- Toronto
- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
kinigitt
When did *I* say it was complete ass? I said that's what others have told me. In fact, they have described AI that sound nearly identical to GT3 (that is, following in line, basically being drones, etc). Did I say I'm going to believe someone and immediately hold their words as the absolute truth? No. That's why I'm going to be picking up the Forza demo over the weekend to see what it's all about.
I'm of the mindset that Forza and GT4, while always being compared, are designed for two very different types of automotive enthusiast gamers. Forza is focused more on immersive racing, which is obviously no bad thing, while GT is more interested in the car itself. Why do you suppose the focus has been on the history so much? And the inclusion of photomode is another hint to that, and it's something I'm personally looking forward to. I'm not worried about the still-small field of competitors, or the lack of online, because as I've said countless times, I'm so used to doing traditional GT OLR that I can wait for proper online. And if the field stays at 6 or 8 online, I won't be too bothered, because that's probably how many people I'd want to race with at a time.
As for the physics, I've heard that Forza is off to a good start, as well as that it isn't even a worthy comparison to GT3. However, since the people who have spoken positively of Forza's physics have been much more in-depth in explaining exactly why they feel that way, and the nay-sayers normally pop in with simple "Forza suuxXxk5! GT4 r0x0r5!" posts, I'm going to assume that the developers of Forza are really onto something, so I'm interested.
Graphics wise, I have been impressed by maybe half a dozen Forza shots. The XBox can slay the PS2 in the graphics department, I know that, but like many people have said, it simply comes down to PD having some of the best art direction in the industry. They don't have as much to play with as the Forza guys, but they know exactly how to best utilize that which they do have.
So, who knows, if I'm impressed with Forza enough, and can look past it's few flaws just like I do with GT, I'll probably pick it up for racing. And a big black brick after April, since I won't be able to use the roommate's after that. But I've went through this with the PC racing games already; they absolutely destroyed GT in the racing department, but their focus was so narrow that I just couldn't stay interested. I spent more time making paint schemes for GTR/NR2k3 than I ever spent racing. I'll keep coming back to GT because, despite it's flaws, it offers so much more than the others. It isn't the absolute strongest in any one particular category anymore, except maybe car count and (arguably) the most developed physics on a console, but it does everything above average. I want it because I'm primarily a car enthusiast, then a racing enthusiast. Different strokes...
Wow these pics look nice
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/screenshots_library/dir_240/vortal_pic_120052.jpg
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/screenshots_library/dir_240/vortal_pic_120055.jpg
I'd take GT4 for low detailed asphalt racetracks like Nurburgring and Tsukuba etc. but RSC2 for those high detailed tracks. :]
IMO RBR is the best rally game ever. =]
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/screenshots_library/dir_240/vortal_pic_120052.jpg
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/screenshots_library/dir_240/vortal_pic_120055.jpg
I'd take GT4 for low detailed asphalt racetracks like Nurburgring and Tsukuba etc. but RSC2 for those high detailed tracks. :]
What do you mean? Graphics wise?.. or because it's arcade and RBR is simulation?code_kev
IMO RBR is the best rally game ever. =]? :/SlipZtrEm
- 2,461
SlipZtrEm
good post. I see what you mean.
I wasnt terribly impressed with the forza demo (the key word for it is "rough draft"), but I just can't stand people that totally trash things before they even play them, or play things and just keep this ridiculous mindset going in that they have to hate this particular game to prove a point.
The internet just divides people into silly fanboy sects. What's worse is that gaming sites (just check out spong.com for example) promote this immature, completely negative behaviour by putting publishers down, mouthing off about hardware, and saying MINE IS BETTER THAN YOURS. It's like people can't appreciate anything nice anymore. On a message board, you have to prove yourself everytime you say you like something in particular, because people have no respect for other's tastes and opinions, or plain truth.
Sorry about the rant, it's long and off topic, but it's just a warning to anyone who just wants to walk into the thread and say something rude and stupid without backing it up.
Oh yeah, and RBR is a sim, RSC2 an arcade game. The comparisons for gameplay should stop, because they're both excellent at their intended purposes. Graphically, RSC2 wins out. I kind of enjoy RBR more because of it's depth (beat RSC2 ages ago, even the DLC, which was nice.).
- 91
PakHmm, that's odd..
because Imho GT3 wasn't realistic at all, you weren't even able to test the physics engine properly because of the driving assists.
But those could be turned off...
The biggest turnoff of Xbox racers, Forza included, is the controller. Like someone pointed out before, I like the shoulder buttons for shifting, not accel and braking. It feels wierd. All the auto racing games I own are for the PS2 (with the exception of the first Project Gotham which I for $6 I think, just to see what the hype was about...) due to the strong aftermarket racing peripheral support plus it's backwards compatibility with some of the greates racing controllers ever created. I've got 8 PS2 controllers designed specifically for racing and none for the Xbox...
To this day I haven't seen a racing controller/wheel for the Xbox that would make me invest in racing on that system (I haven't seen any at all, except. When Forza comes out, hopefully someone will develop a wheel comparable to the DFP...
- 2,461
Paklol, no
only ASM and TCS could be disabled, but there's always steering help and ABS or something
that "abs or something" could be wrong vehicle dynamics and an aging physics engine that glosses over it's shortcomings. After all, it was running on a modified version of GT2's physics.
GT4 is rebuilt from scratch.
