Forza3 Definitive Trailer: AKA Why we are better than GT5 w Pro Racer Testimonials.

[bicycleshorts]

Unlike some forums - you won't get banned for having a differing opinion from other members

You seem to have completely ignored the posts from Dave A and I - which tried to convince you to have:

nice, opinionated discussions about certain things, not have to be nasty to everyone who thinks differently from you.

But then you turned it into some kind of weird leaving tribute parade to yourself.

Reported.

 

[Scaff]

No, I am not, I am saying they still haven't fixed the main issue with their physics system, which is having the car actually make contact with the road. You are just going along, you don't feel any bumps, there's no tyre marks, no ability to slide and do a little drift, no wheelpsin etc.

Unless you are in Drift mode.

I have to ask, did you actually read the thread I linked to at all?

It clearly discuss' the areas that you mention above. Road contact from GT3 onwards is quite clear to feel and has a direct impact on the car and its handling, certainly you can't take a car with a suspension set-up from Fuji and expect it to work at the 'ring.

The only one that holds any truth here is that of tyre marks, which have no direct impact on the physics at all, as they are a visual effect not a characteristic of the engine.

It would also be appreciated if you would not resort to foul-mouthed oubursts simply because people do not agree with you. If you no longer wish to post here, then simply stop, don't launch toys from your pram.


Scaff

 

[McLaren]

Just looking back at the posts...wow, reading them again really re-assures you that this place is absolutley jam-packed with nasty, nasty, nasty people.

Dave A: 'You are so wrong.'
Nice to know that.

sejtur: 'He probably drives with all the aids on. And I didn't know the physics changed in drift mode from the normal physics? And are you playing with the 6axis? No wonder you don't feel any bumps, hehe.'

Hehe.

sumbrownkid: 'Forza.net I presume? What? I'm just saying your next probable destination, not to be nasty or anything.'

Yes, absolutely.

ept_ayer: Err...wtf? You have played GT5P, did you? Or did you see it on Youtube?

Yeah, I saw it o Youtube. Absolutely true. Oh yeah...err, what the **** is wrong wit you?

Like everyone else on this forum, what the **** is wrong with you people. Time to be banned, I know, I'm actually really excited. At least my account will be gone. I can go and find somewhere else to have discussions on. At least that place won't and isn't ****ed up. Like GTP.

Goodbye, all.
PS. Wow the swear filter on this forum is real good.
Oh yeah, those were only some examples of the ****ing nastiness of this place. Go on any other thread to find some more.

Oh boo hoo. Leave already if it's pissing you off because this is your 2nd post stating you're leaving within an hour of the 1st.

 

[dancardesigner]

Tosser is just looking for attention.

 

[Tenacious D]

Depends on the level of simulation. If you choose full sim, just like in Forza 2, and you hit another car in a head on crash at a certain speed or higher, you can't drive away. Your car is toast, and it just sits there smoking.

Well, this is also untrue. As a guy who played FM2 for a few months straight, I can assure you that I torture tested the collision physics and damage build in the most extreme ways possible, including a number of head on collisions on Nissan Speedway oval at 150 plus mph, and with one non-Ferrari, I performed numerous head-ons against the bots with the same car to see how long it took to have the field crawling. And it took a while, like more than 20 minutes.

The damage graphics are decent, though FM2 has this annoying tendency to freeze for a split second while it tries to figure out what to do, but the damage even on simulation is only around 25 - 30%, and less on certain stubborn makers like Ferrari. Maybe FM3 will be different, but I'm doubtful.

 

[TeamStig]

Well, this is also untrue. As a guy who played FM2 for a few months straight, I can assure you that I torture tested the collision physics and damage build in the most extreme ways possible, including a number of head on collisions on Nissan Speedway oval at 150 plus mph, and with one non-Ferrari, I performed numerous head-ons against the bots with the same car to see how long it took to have the field crawling. And it took a while, like more than 20 minutes.

The damage graphics are decent, though FM2 has this annoying tendency to freeze for a split second while it tries to figure out what to do, but the damage even on simulation is only around 25 - 30%, and less on certain stubborn makers like Ferrari. Maybe FM3 will be different, but I'm doubtful.

Agreed. It seems like damage effects the player's cars more than the AI's. In Forza, there is a point where the car just will not take any more damage, regardless of the force of impact.

As far as damage on console racers go, I believe that Codemasters has done the best job so far with DiRT and GRID. Yes, I realize those games are not simulators, but I found the damage to be pretty realistic, at least graphically.

I don't think much will change in Forza 3 either (with the exception of rollovers being added).

 

[Strittan]

Just looking back at the posts...wow, reading them again really re-assures you that this place is absolutley jam-packed with nasty, nasty, nasty people.

Dave A: 'You are so wrong.'
Nice to know that.

sejtur: 'He probably drives with all the aids on. And I didn't know the physics changed in drift mode from the normal physics? And are you playing with the 6axis? No wonder you don't feel any bumps, hehe.'

Hehe.

sumbrownkid: 'Forza.net I presume? What? I'm just saying your next probable destination, not to be nasty or anything.'

Yes, absolutely.

ept_ayer: Err...wtf? You have played GT5P, did you? Or did you see it on Youtube?

Yeah, I saw it o Youtube. Absolutely true. Oh yeah...err, what the **** is wrong wit you?

Like everyone else on this forum, what the **** is wrong with you people. Time to be banned, I know, I'm actually really excited. At least my account will be gone. I can go and find somewhere else to have discussions on. At least that place won't and isn't ****ed up. Like GTP.

Goodbye, all.
PS. Wow the swear filter on this forum is real good.
Oh yeah, those were only some examples of the ****ing nastiness of this place. Go on any other thread to find some more.

👎👎👎

 

[Da-Bomber]

Turn 10 said the E3 demo had damage turned off thats why damage wasnt appearing with collisions.

 

[Tenacious D]

As far as damage on console racers go, I believe that Codemasters has done the best job so far with DiRT and GRID. Yes, I realize those games are not simulators, but I found the damage to be pretty realistic, at least graphically.

While I'm really disgusted with the first GRID and DiRT games, except for their amazing collision and damage implementations, there's still hope for DiRT 2. I hope though that they scrap GRID forever and make a Toca 4.

I will have to say in FW3's favor, T10 managed to get rid of that annoying collision freeze hiccup, at least in the build in the posted YouTube video.

Turn 10 said the E3 demo had damage turned off thats why damage wasnt appearing with collisions.

Woops... might have to take the above back if that was just cosmetic, which... come to think of it, damage in the demos touring the world are indeed cosmetic only. Hrm...

 

[ZROC]

The dark interiors have been fixed aswell. That video is rather old.

 

[dancardesigner]

The dark interiors have been fixed aswell. That video is rather old.

Hopefully they will sort out the dark interiors in GT5 aswell.

 

[Tenacious D]

One thing that interests me is how FW3's Career Mode plays out. It's both cool and meh. It's kind of like a "Choose your own adventure" in that the game structures an ever evolving season path based on the choices you make, in a kind of balance between giving you what you want and throwing a curve every once in a while. Suppose you like American muscle cars. While it starts you off with a basic car and a generic series of races to start, it starts building a list of your preferences and using this to define how you progress through the season. So, if you grab a Mustang or Camaro and stick with that, you'll find yourself racing against other American cars in races with American settings. And if that's all you want to do, that's what the game will keep feeding you, to one extent or other.

This is both good and bad. For me, very bad, because I want to get the races out of the way which I dislike, which would be the dinkmobiles, trucks, SUVs and American muscle cars. If I make these choices early in my career, which I WANT to, the game is going to get a completely frooked up idea of what I like. I know I can jump out of my season if I want to, which isn't entirely clear what exactly this means yet, but then I could get those niddly things out of the way so I can focus on my speedboat and helicopter races.

I am hoping though that Kaz and the lads are aware that certain other games are moving towards what I want to see in a Career Mode, which is like a racing career in real life. I want Gran Turismo to give us a proper realistic racing season and a career path which is like real life racing in one optional mode, so if you don't want to do it like I don't want to drift, you don't have to. But if you want a virtual racing life, I want GT5 to give it to us.

 

[Andrew C]

I don't know... GT is... well, GT. It's never been a season and that's just what GT is and is going to be I think. Maybe for Nascar now, but GT has, I think, always been about winning and buying different cars and just moving to different championships in different orders. I kinda like it like that, too. It has a lot more variety than just you're normal season would.

 

[Famine]

I just want to check... You're having this temper tantrum because you made an exaggerated statement...

You are just going along, you don't feel any bumps, there's no tyre marks, no ability to slide and do a little drift, no wheelpsin etc.

...and got pulled up on it for, other than the tyre marks, it being completely without foundation? And that's a reason to insult people? Wow. You must be a real charmer in the offline world. Feel free to find another internet home where insulting people for their opinions is normal, unlike on GTPlanet where we discuss the opinions themselves.

 

[Pepsi0]

I just want to check... You're having this temper tantrum because you made an exaggerated statement...



...and got pulled up on it for, other than the tyre marks, it being completely without foundation? And that's a reason to insult people? Wow. You must be a real charmer in the offline world. Feel free to find another internet home where insulting people for their opinions is normal, unlike on GTPlanet where we discuss the opinions themselves.

Uhhm.

I really think you should read before you speak.

 

[Famine]

Uhhm.

I really think you should read before you speak.

I did. I saw your claim and I saw several people demonstrate, with evidence, that it was incorrect.

And I saw you abusing them for their trouble. But let's revisit. You claim that in the 10 or so years GT has been kicking about, barely any improvements have been made to the physics engine. These faults include, to your mind:

- you don't feel any bumps

Well, having driven the 'Ring and flat out down the Hunaudieres and trying to stop the wheel being wrenched from my hands by its own force feedback function, this is just plain untrue. Even on mirror-smooth, F1-grade race tracks, you can feel the rumble strips and bounce through the kitty litter.

- there's no tyre marks

Indeed there aren't. But it's not part of the physics engine so... irrelevant.

- no ability to slide and do a little drift, no wheelpsin etc.

Last I checked we have Drifting subfora for every GT game, so apparently somebody can manage it. No wheelspin? Driven the Cerbera Speed 12 (GT4) at all? You can even spin up the unloaded powered wheel and not the one under load - even in GT3. I drove an F430 around High Speed Ring (GT5P) as a demonstration for a friend and it wouldn't stop sliding (Pro physics, no assists, G25). It even had a four wheel drift moment when I braked while turning like a putz for the chicane (which my friend, who drives a car much faster than an F430, remarked was "cool", while chiding me for driving like a putz).


From this I can conclude that your statement of:

You are just going along, you don't feel any bumps, there's no tyre marks, no ability to slide and do a little drift, no wheelpsin etc.

... is entirely false (with the exclusion of the tyre marks section, which is true but not a function of the physics engine). I don't see why you're having such a paddy about it.

 

[Pepsi0]

I did. I saw your claim and I saw several people demonstrate, with evidence, that it was incorrect.

And I saw you abusing them for their trouble. But let's revisit. You claim that in the 10 or so years GT has been kicking about, barely any improvements have been made to the physics engine. These faults include, to your mind:

- you don't feel any bumps

Well, having driven the 'Ring and flat out down the Hunaudieres and trying to stop the wheel being wrenched from my hands by its own force feedback function, this is just plain untrue. Even on mirror-smooth, F1-grade race tracks, you can feel the rumble strips and bounce through the kitty litter.

- there's no tyre marks

Indeed there aren't. But it's not part of the physics engine so... irrelevant.

- no ability to slide and do a little drift, no wheelpsin etc.

Last I checked we have Drifting subfora for every GT game, so apparently somebody can manage it. No wheelspin? Driven the Cerbera Speed 12 (GT4) at all? You can even spin up the unloaded powered wheel and not the one under load - even in GT3. I drove an F430 around High Speed Ring (GT5P) as a demonstration for a friend and it wouldn't stop sliding (Pro physics, no assists, G25). It even had a four wheel drift moment when I braked while turning like a putz for the chicane (which my friend, who drives a car much faster than an F430, remarked was "cool", while chiding me for driving like a putz).


From this I can conclude that your statement of:



... is entirely false (with the exclusion of the tyre marks section, which is true but not a function of the physics engine). I don't see why you're having such a paddy about it.

I think your the one having the paddy here.

Look what the other people have said. My opinion, which may not be true because opinions aren't always true, has got nasty comments which only makes you not want to discuss on here anymore. I'm waiting until I see all the resposnses I get then I'm off.

 

[Scaff]

I think your the one having the paddy here.

Look what the other people have said. My opinion, which may not be true because opinions aren't always true, has got nasty comments which only makes you not want to discuss on here anymore. I'm waiting until I see all the resposnses I get then I'm off.

The major problem you have here is that you didn't post an opinion.....

You are just going along, you don't feel any bumps, there's no tyre marks, no ability to slide and do a little drift, no wheelpsin etc.

...that reads as a statement of fact, not one of opinion.

If your intention is to simply wait around for people to reply and then get shirty with them, well all that will do is get the thread locked.

Either contribute in an adult manner or leave, don't stalk threads just to accuse people of being unfair to you.


Scaff

 

[Da-Bomber]

Can the title of the thread be changed please?

 

[Famine]

I think your the one having the paddy here.

Really? Let's check on that:

Like everyone else on this forum, what the **** is wrong with you people. Time to be banned, I know, I'm actually really excited. At least my account will be gone. I can go and find somewhere else to have discussions on. At least that place won't and isn't ****ed up. Like GTP.

Goodbye, all.
PS. Wow the swear filter on this forum is real good.
Oh yeah, those were only some examples of the ****ing nastiness of this place. Go on any other thread to find some more.

Nope. Still you.

 

[Aloha62_2]

dont know about you guys but i feel that this thread can no longer bring any good.

 

[Smoke&Slide]

Well i know famous racers use GT5P and the Forza 3 trailer can't prove it's better yet, without playing GT5 so the debate can carry on.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Well, this is also untrue. As a guy who played FM2 for a few months straight, I can assure you that I torture tested the collision physics and damage build in the most extreme ways possible, including a number of head on collisions on Nissan Speedway oval at 150 plus mph, and with one non-Ferrari, I performed numerous head-ons against the bots with the same car to see how long it took to have the field crawling. And it took a while, like more than 20 minutes.

The damage graphics are decent, though FM2 has this annoying tendency to freeze for a split second while it tries to figure out what to do, but the damage even on simulation is only around 25 - 30%, and less on certain stubborn makers like Ferrari. Maybe FM3 will be different, but I'm doubtful.

Actually, it is true. Just because you have not experienced it doesn't mean it's not true. I have been playing F1 and F2 since their release dates (years and years). I have totaled out many cars. (cuz I suck). But yes, you can total out your car.

 

[Rand al Thor]

One of the biggest lies often peddled by the fools of forza is that the physics engine of GT is not up to scratch.

I guess they know better than a man who is one of the presenters of the top automotive programme of planet earth, who incidentally has driven more cars in real life than these fanboys will ever drive in their dreams.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article552096.ece

 

[WolfRacer543]

One of the biggest lies often peddled by the fools of forza is that the physics engine of GT is not up to scratch.

I guess they know better than a man who is one of the presenters of the top automotive programme of planet earth, who incidentally has driven more cars in real life than these fanboys will ever drive in their dreams.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article552096.ece

I dont see where he says its better than Forza

 

[Raitziger]

For me forza physics up to this point have felt inferior to GT as up to this point there have not been adequate wheel for forza. As my fanatec wheel is not here, i shall remain mostly silent about physics comparison

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Have to say im very tempted to make a video showing the flaws of the FM3 physics engine. I have tons of replays that will illustrate them perfectly.

 

[paskowitz]

These last couple of pages have been really amusing. But on serious a note...

Wolf, I think what Rand was trying to say was that JC, who is a pretty knowledgeable person on the handling of cars, thinks GT is realistic and that since he has more experience with the subject matter than 99.9% of Forza fans, fans of Forza who say GT's physics suck, are wrong.

The fact of the matter is this, every sim has flaws in its physics and it will probably stay this way because simulating the physics of cars is very very very difficult.

 

[phil-t]

I dont see where he says its better than Forza

Indeed, it doesn't..

I think either camp saying the other is desperately inferior is wildly inaccurate..

It's hard to find head to head reviews as such, but we all remember this (or apparantly some don't)

https://www.gtplanet.net/inside-sim-racing-gt5-prologue-vs-forza-2/

It may be controversial, but the pertinent point is, both have plenty of good aspects and some bad aspects to their physics engines, we can all concentrate on the negative to play one down or the positives to play one up, but really on balance (and my own opinion is inline with this), both are very good...

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

I dont see where he says its better than Forza

Im curious but on FM2 what is your gamertag and how do your laptimes rank on the leaderboards.

Only reason I ask is because i've always been of the opinion that you only really test a games physics engine when hotlapping. The reason being is simply due to being on the ragged edge and the precision required.

I find FM2 very frustrating when going for laptimes compared to GT5P although I have still put in some decent times. One of the main reasons I find FM2 frustrating is the reaction of some of the cars on the rumble strips. The 3rd to last turn on Sebring club is a great example because I have known my car to literally fly off the track just for putting one wheel on the rumble strip. This doesn't happen on GT5P and like in real life your looking for the straightest line which means you make full use of the rumble strips. I avoid some of the rumble strips on FM2 like the plague!

The other difference is the sense of weight distribution in the car. when im accelerating out of a bend on GT5P I instinctively know when to lift if i've tried to accelerate too early. This isn't the case on FM2 and sometimes you find its too late!

Obviously GT5P isn't perfect and I doubt any racing game will have a perfect physics engine. However I have many hardcore racing fans on both of my friends list and they all agree GT5P has better physics. When I say hardcore I mean some of them will spend an entire evening just to shave :300 off their best laptime!