Forza3 Definitive Trailer: AKA Why we are better than GT5 w Pro Racer Testimonials.

[Kryz11]

The cars he show are from PHOTO MODE, of course they would look more rendered.. watch HD videos on youtube even it looks noting like the pictures. game looks damn dark in gameplay mode, 30 FPS in cockpit mode.. and only 8 cars is a big laugh...

More detail in Environments? sure.. cough cough, why not fixing the correct mapping first and being ACCURATE!? FM2 had very very poor track layouts, especially for Nur-Ring, Suzuka! they were terrible!

Game is only made in 2 years.. wow.. expect quality.. not

by the way, how are the Physics better in FM3 then GT5P?
Watch this video.. how is this accurate to real life physics? You can just tell it's terrible.

[youtubehd]ADOLPNcF4uM[/youtubehd]

 

[sumbrownkid]

^The damage modeling is really lame.

 

[SatansReverence]

Yay, lets all base our opinions on a youtube video of someone who is pointing a camera at tc screen showing a game with a 6+ month old build.

YAY!

Wait, since you can do it, I will too.
Wow, arcade physics in GT5 FTW?

FM3's cars have a million polygons? No way. I know Greenawalt said it was pushing 10x more per car compared to FM2 but I can't see that being possible on either the 360 or the PS3. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How is it a no way?

On PS3 maybe but since the 360 is capable of almost twice the poly count.

Just stating a fact scaff. No intention of flame baiting.

 

[niky]

Forza 3 has 8 cars for multiple reasons.

The A.I calculations as so far ahead of anything in a racing game today let alone GT5.

Opinion, unsubstantiated by evidence.

The car models are very far ahead (1 million polys per car)

Opinion, unsubstantiated by evidence, refuted a zillion pages ago.

The track details are again, far ahead of GT5

Opinion, contradicted by historical fact (Ladies and Gents... the Nurburgring), unsubstantiated by opinion, about two games that haven't been released yet.

The physics are calculated on a level beyond what GT will ever have (the game makes cars handle the way they do because of the physics and not changing car dynamics)

Uh... cars don't change dynamics due to camber, lowering fuel levels and tire conditions? Do tell. Still... opinion.

In my opinion, there should be a statute of limitations on the forum preventing some people from repeating arguments that they have already posted and have already been refuted multiple times ad nauseum. Such behavior reeks of "spamming".

But that's just my "opinion".

 

[Emet_PL]

[...] On PS3 maybe but since the 360 is capable of almost twice the poly count. [...]

In your dreams xD
Last time, when you were in this thread I thought that you are just a Forza fan... Now I know, that you are just another troll.

 

[SatansReverence]

Opinion, unsubstantiated by evidence.

So you call GTs 1 line A.I that doesn't care where the player is good do you?

Opinion, unsubstantiated by evidence, refuted a zillion pages ago.

10 x 100,000 = 1,000,000

Opinion, contradicted by historical fact (Ladies and Gents... the Nurburgring), unsubstantiated by opinion, about two games that haven't been released yet.

GT4's ring was good but had no where near the track side detail on FM1 and FM2's nurburgring is not as bad as people think.

Uh... cars don't change dynamics due to camber, lowering fuel levels and tire conditions? Do tell. Still... opinion.

Camber doesn't affect cars as it should (it does affect them) and Fuel levels and tire wear affect the cars greatly.

In my opinion, there should be a statute of limitations on the forum preventing some people from repeating arguments that they have already posted and have already been refuted multiple times ad nauseum. Such behavior reeks of "spamming".

But that's just my "opinion".

And in my opinion GT fanboys should back up their own claims of simply "Youre wrong" aswell.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Dude no console on Earth can handle a million polygon vehicles, and I don't even think the latest graphics cards for PCs can.

And the ring was actually more accurate and detailed in GT4, and many reviewers can attest to that. I'd provide a link, but it's almost 3 A.M.

 

[SatansReverence]

Dude no console on Earth can handle a million polygon vehicles, and I don't even think the latest graphics cards for PCs can.

This is the last time I post anything about 360 vs PS3

I proved it earlier in the thread where the PS3 can render 275 million polys a second and the 360 can render 500 million/sec

divide them by 60 for how many per frame they can handle at 60fps it is 4.6 million per frame (rounded up) for the PS3 and 8.3 million for the 360 rounded down.

Remember, the PS3's graphics card was an after thought (they were just going to have 2 cell chips) which they implemented when Microsoft unveiled the revolutionary (at the time) ATI xenon GFX card.

Anyway, no more of that, lets keep the thread on the topic of GT5 vs FM3

And the ring was actually more accurate and detailed in GT4, and many reviewers can attest to that. I'd provide a link, but it's almost 3 A.M.

The track ITSELF was more accurate, the off track detail was poor at best.

 

[RedSuinit]

LoL, I used to be like you With my shrine built to Polyphony.. right next to my sony kiosk and my tamagutchi dolls.

The reality is GT is behind in features, it does have competition, and that competition is real, its loud, and its here. GT is in a class of its own, it has an undeniable GT soul that resonates with every iteration. But reality dictates that when there's competition, you ultimately receive a better product due to the competition. Much like the NFL titles have stagnated with Madden, GT would have been in that same realm if there were no real solid competitors out there. I'm hoping its a challenge to the PD team to remind everyone why GT is known by the community (not just the developers like Turn10) as the definitive driving series on consoles. This goes for Damage, Customization both cosmetic & mechanical, track detail, weather, day/night cycles, A.I, single player "missions", and Online Play. As I said earlier, GT5p still has A.I vehicles bumping into you if you're stopped on the track, as opposed to F2 to where vehicles will avoid you. Basic things like this need to go the way of the dodo.

Damage/Online and other catch-up features are just that. they are features that are standards in the world where GT is hailed as king. I'm not a fan of damage, but I am a fan of engine swapping/online/serious-real-racing time penalties and ejections. These things PD must add to the title in order to keep it relevant, especially with this generation being about nothing but sales, Microsoft and the advertising army have a single goal, and thats to make the world forget about PD, Sony, and the Gran turismo franchise. And they have the cash to do it. Driving in GT is pure bliss, but with a few more features I will no longer need to procreate, and i'll play Gt5 until GT6.

I mentioned that I have a fear that the game won't be a significant improvement over the previous titles outside of visual polish and a few other things. Sort of the disappointment with GT3 to GT4. Now factor in that it took this long "4 years" to get comfortable with the PS3 and the next gen engine, I'm hoping that the time is well spent, and that we get the things that are not only basic requirements for driving sims, but the extra "oh my god i never thought of that" that GT invented/innovated with the previous titles. The new non-basic-sim additions of the different series is great, as is the TopGear/GT-TV additions. The new menu system is beautiful and adds to the soul of GT. But I want to see a hint of what is to come to the franchise.

No one has seen that Hint outside of cosmetic updates. Now we see a trailer that shows off damage. but again, nothing that is interesting me if im looking for "whats new" in gt5.

Do I really need to bring up every single other driving game in the world with wrecked exotics? Its a BS excuse. Sure, there may be 100's of legal reasons, but it took PD 10 years to do what many titles do out the gate.

Wow, yeah all other racing games had damage models where the hood was all bent up, and the front buper was practically falling off from a bad landing over a jump.... RIGHT... I must have missed all that, because I was too busy running into barriers at 70 MPH and denting the front bumper a little bit instead of smashing the car... 👎

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Personally, I don't think Dan Greenawalt literally meant "10 times the polygons", "[insert number here] times" is a pretty common non-literal expression.

 

[SatansReverence]

Wow, yeah all other racing games had damage models where the hood was all bent up, and the front buper was practically falling off from a bad landing over a jump.... RIGHT... I must have missed all that, because I was too busy running into barriers at 70 MPH and denting the front bumper a little bit instead of smashing the car... 👎

You must have also missed the fact that you were watching a CG trailer with no actual gameplay in it.

Personally, I don't think Dan Greenawalt literally meant "10 times the polygons", "[insert number here] times" is a pretty common non-literal expression.

It has been said by multiple members of T10 in multiple videos.

10x the polys (There is no technical reason it isn't true) and 4x the textures (Again, no technical reason to disprove it)

 

[Ghoa$t]

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

It has been said by multiple members of T10 in multiple videos.

10x the polys (There is no technical reason it isn't true) and 4x the textures (Again, no technical reason to disprove it)

I don't think that makes it any more true. From what I've seen, each Forza 3 interview/conference has pretty much the same script about 10x the polygons, one button racing, something about a Lamborghini poster, the grand dad fixing up a classic car, etc.

 

[Liquid Li0n]

In that trailer of Forza 3 I saw they did the same mistake again as in Forza 2.
In the trailer you see the Audi R8 without the spoiler up.
The same was in Forza 2, was racing with the SLR, and in real-life, when you brake with an SLR the spoiler comes up, but they forgot in Forza 2, but didn't in GT4. That sort of detail is, for me, much more important than a broken window or a bumper hanging off.

 

[SatansReverence]

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

Nice work trying to call me an idiot.

Funny thing is it is the GT fanboys who just run around saying "you're wrong" with nothing to prove their own statements.

Oh well...

In that trailer of Forza 3 I saw they did the same mistake again as in Forza 2.
In the trailer you see the Audi R8 without the spoiler up.
The same was in Forza 2, was racing with the SLR, and in real-life, when you brake with an SLR the spoiler comes up, but they forgot in Forza 2, but didn't in GT4. That sort of detail is, for me, much more important than a broken window or a bumper hanging off.

It is a shame active aero parts arn't animated in FM2 but so far it is unconfirmed either way for the actual released version of FM3 but probably won't because it would interfere with the FM aero kits available on almost every car.

 

[SatansReverence]

double post, soz

 

[McLaren]

GT4's ring was good but had no where near the track side detail on FM1 and FM2's nurburgring is not as bad as people think.

Yes, yes it was.

GT4's Nurburgring will be more realistic than Forza 1, 2, or even 3. There's no way you can debate the fact that it is. The track side detail in Forza isn't even spot on, either, so what good does it do putting any in if you won't do it right?

 

[Vincent]

The track ITSELF was more accurate, the off track detail was poor at best.

I'm not surprised that the off track detail of GT4's 'ring was low compared to the versions presented in Forza. GT4 was on the PS2, after all.

That stated, this is an area that I think boils down to personal preference. Given a choice between immaculate detail off the track and an accurate track, I'll take the accurate track. After all, since I may not ever get a chance to actually see the 'ring, let alone drive it, unless I do so in a video game. I want the experience to be as authentic as possible, even if I have to give up some eye candy. Ideally, of course, we'll get both immaculate detail off track and an accurate track this time around.

Here's hoping that the next gen versions of the 'ring, and other real tracks, take the authenticity up a notch (or more).

 

[RedSuinit]

This is the last time I post anything about 360 vs PS3

I proved it earlier in the thread where the PS3 can render 275 million polys a second and the 360 can render 500 million/sec

divide them by 60 for how many per frame they can handle at 60fps it is 4.6 million per frame (rounded up) for the PS3 and 8.3 million for the 360 rounded down.

Remember, the PS3's graphics card was an after thought (they were just going to have 2 cell chips) which they implemented when Microsoft unveiled the revolutionary (at the time) ATI xenon GFX card.

Anyway, no more of that, lets keep the thread on the topic of GT5 vs FM3

The track ITSELF was more accurate, the off track detail was poor at best.

Lol, at your arrogance. The GPU of the PS3 is more powerful that the 360, and the CPU of the PS3 is LIGHTYEARS ahead of the 360.

Wow, Have you seen a PS3 EXCLUSIVE game?? EVER? You can look at a Xbox 360/PS3 game and you can't tell much of a difference, simply because there isn't one, because they just release the same game in the appropriate Xbox/ps3 formats. However if you compare a top of the line 360 exclusive, with a top of the line PS3 exclusive there is no contest... PS3 WINS...

So, when I race I look at the TRACK not all the pretty trees off to the side... PD GETS THAT. T10, doesn't.

 

[SatansReverence]

Yes, yes it was.

GT4's Nurburgring will be more realistic than Forza 1, 2, or even 3. There's no way you can debate the fact that it is. The track side detail in Forza isn't even spot on, either, so what good does it do putting any in if you won't do it right?

Oh, so you've played FM3's Nurburgring?

Also, if you are complaining about the wider track it is already well known that is for Multiplayer to make it possible to pass people without causing a crash in the world of online idiots.

 

[Ghoa$t]

Nice work trying to call me an idiot.

Funny thing is it is the GT fanboys who just run around saying "you're wrong" with nothing to prove their own statements.

Oh well...

lol i wasn't trying


and please show me where you have proven your so called opinions facts.

 

[RedSuinit]

Oh, so you've played FM3's Nurburgring?

Also, if you are complaining about the wider track it is already well known that is for Multiplayer to make it possible to pass people without causing a crash in the world of online idiots.

And that's a good thing? How about, you make it RIGHT and then let people learn how to DRIVE and PASS appropriatly...

You must have also missed the fact that you were watching a CG trailer with no actual gameplay in it.



It has been said by multiple members of T10 in multiple videos.

10x the polys (There is no technical reason it isn't true) and 4x the textures (Again, no technical reason to disprove it)

Kazunori Yamauchi himself said it was all gameplay, shove that bait somewhere else, cause I aint biting.

All I want to know is, why hasn't this thread been closed? It has turned into nothing but a flambaiting war... 👎

 

[RedSuinit]

Apologies DP won't happen again.

 

[RedSuinit]

Crap.

 

[McLaren]

Oh, so you've played FM3's Nurburgring?

Also, if you are complaining about the wider track it is already well known that is for Multiplayer to make it possible to pass people without causing a crash in the world of online idiots.

I don't need to. I've seen the photos of the first turn; it's off on every angle.
And I don't give a rat's ass about the Multiplayer excuse. That's a cop out because it's already a rarity that anybody races next to anyone else after they've all wrecked coming off the straight.

Again, the fact is, the Nurburgring is & always will be more realistic to life than Forza unless by some miracle, Turn10 get their act together & change it for #4.

 

[SatansReverence]

And that's a good thing? How about, you make it RIGHT and then let people learn how to DRIVE and PASS appropriatly...



Kazunori Yamauchi himself said it was all gameplay, shove that bait somewhere else, cause I aint biting.

All I want to know is, why hasn't this thread been closed? It has turned into nothing but a flambaiting war... 👎

Kazunori has said alot of things.

How long has he promised full damage?

How long has he called GT "the real driving simulator"? when it is so detached from reality?

You really need to learn that anyone directly associated with sony cannot be trusted.

 

[Scaff]

For the second time I am having to step into this thread to remind people of the AUP and to be honest I am now quite fed-up with babysitting a large number of you.

I strongly advise everyone in this thread (or thinking of posting in this thread) to re-read the AUP.

As from this point onwards it will be opperated with zero tolerance, I have wasted quite enough of my time stepping into silly flame bait, petty name calling and stupid arguments. So from this point onward if you step out of line in this thread you will get a formal warning, if you already have one then it will go straight to an infraction.

This thread is a valid discussion point, and GT Planet strongly encourages polite discussion. Our AUP is not vauge on this point, so be sure you understand it and follow it.

No further in-thread advice on this will be given out again, and anyone who ignores this will be leaving via the back door.

Keep in mind this mean be polite to each other, don't spam, address the point not the person and if you state something as fact you better be able to back it up ASAP.


In closing a direct point to Satans Reference.

Did you think that by spending some time away from GT Planet that this thread would be forgotten about.....

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61433&page=51

...and you're claims about your cars handling prowess.

I can assure you they have not and you will either publicaly retract the claims or prove them. Failure to do either of these will be an AUP violation (as I have alreay stated in the above thread). I can assure you that your membership here will not survive another AUP violation.


Scaff

 

[McLaren]

Kazunori has said alot of things.

He's still right. It was all gameplay; there've been countless reviews done by people here & websites that show it.

How long has he promised full damage?

As far as I've seen, only since GT4. That's not that big of a deal considering he's shown that they are accomplishing it.

How long has he called GT "the real driving simulator"? when it is so detached from reality?

It's a tag line that's stuck with the game since it started, just like BMW's The Ultimate Driving Machine.

You really need to learn that anyone directly associated with sony cannot be trusted.

Way to make yourself look even sillier.

 

[SatansReverence]

In closing a direct point to Satans Reference.

Did you think that by spending some time away from GT Planet that this thread would be forgotten about.....

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61433&page=51

...and you're claims about your cars handling prowess.

I can assure you they have not and you will either publicaly retract the claims or prove them. Failure to do either of these will be an AUP violation (as I have alreay stated in the above thread). I can assure you that your membership here will not survive another AUP violation.


Scaff

No, I did not think spending time away would make people forget (although it seems some have).

Since the next track day in my area is in december and the track is a good 4 hours away from where I live and since I don't want to put video's of myself driving dangerously on public roads I guess, for now I will have to retract them statements.

Could my car beat an M3? IMO yes. Can I prove it does at this time? no.

He's still right. It was all gameplay; there've been countless reviews done by people here & websites that show it.

Oh, so they show render bugs in a few areas but in the area that "proves" damage, day/night cycles etc and such not a single thing?

As far as I've seen, only since GT4. That's not that big of a deal considering he's shown that they are accomplishing it.

I am pretty sure there have been more "promises" in the past but I can't be bothered right now to find them. (most were of GT4)

It's a tag line that's stuck with the game since it started, just like BMW's The Ultimate Driving Machine.

it is false. It is not a simulator. BMW's "ultimate driving machine" is an opinion.

Way to make yourself look even sillier.

Forget all those pre-lauch E3 videos of PS2 and 3 did you?

 

[RedSuinit]

Kazunori has said alot of things.

How long has he promised full damage?

Ok, so the countless hours spent combing EVERY INCH of that video and the fact that countless little mistakes are in there doesn't tell you that it is in fact REAL gampelay... Know what I know exactly what you are going to say to that... PD just sicks and pays no attention to details... Which is of course foolishness, GT has had a CRONIC problem with delays because of Kaz's obsession with the tiny details, and getting everything PERFECT. SO why would they make a CG video with a flag clipping through a pole, or the dash of the subaru saying is was going 0 MPH and was revving at 0 RPMs? Pr having the front drives side tire slightly going through the ground just BARELY, and do all of that in 1080P, where we could see it all? Oh, and let's not forget the Citroen GT and the Viper mishap....

How long has he called GT "the real driving simulator"? when it is so detached from reality?

It's a slogan... So what? The slogan for Frosted Flakes is that "They're great!" I don't like them, I guess Tony the Tiger has been lying to everyone!

You really need to learn that anyone directly associated with sony cannot be trusted.

...