Friday Night Index Racing
- Thread starter JLBowler
- 142 comments
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- 636
- Penal
- basswerks1
the nurb is gonna be great...... too bad i have to work ....
- 1,694
- ontario
- USERID_77a23
Although I only had time this week to figure out a car the first combo, it was a fun race for the most part, thanks JL for setting these up. For the most part everyone gets what's going on here but I guess as Marcus had eluded to earlier in the thread here , there's always a few who will "game" the system. JL can correct me if I'm wrong but the essence of the setup is the have different but equal cars on the track. The posted time on the track is at or around the the ultimate race speed of the car for the given driver. There will be a difference of performance of cars because a slower driver will need a faster car to run the same lap time of a faster driver. Sneaking but not really sneaking
a fast car in and trying to keep it under the limit are ......well.......anyway....not as fun if everyone was all out racing cars at the limit. Thanks JL again , see you all and hopefully more next week
a fast car in and trying to keep it under the limit are ......well.......anyway....not as fun if everyone was all out racing cars at the limit. Thanks JL again , see you all and hopefully more next week
- 636
- Penal
- basswerks1
^^^^^^ yup what he said. ^^^^^^^
JLBowler
Premium
- 7,995
- California
- JLBowler
Although I only had time this week to figure out a car the first combo, it was a fun race for the most part, thanks JL for setting these up. For the most part everyone gets what's going on here but I guess as Marcus had eluded to earlier in the thread here , there's always a few who will "game" the system. JL can correct me if I'm wrong but the essence of the setup is the have different but equal cars on the track. The posted time on the track is at or around the the ultimate race speed of the car for the given driver. There will be a difference of performance of cars because a slower driver will need a faster car to run the same lap time of a faster driver. Sneaking but not really sneaking
There are some changes coming. First up will be a lap one index time because it's obvious we have some who are going to bring a car that is much faster than the index time, jump out to a lead and then pedal it the rest of the way. This is not what this series is about. It's about creating close racing lap after lap.
The other is going to be switching to two combos and four races. This will cut down the prep time required to be ready to race.
- 636
- Penal
- basswerks1
How about a pp cap ???
Ya, let's all run the post count up so it's 57% perfect (LOL) and then never see more then a have dozen ppl in the room. It WAS ok. Have fun!!! LOL
oops
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- 1,283
- Big Stone Gap
- Raw10_2u
Although I only had time this week to figure out a car the first combo, it was a fun race for the most part, thanks JL for setting these up. For the most part everyone gets what's going on here but I guess as Marcus had eluded to earlier in the thread here , there's always a few who will "game" the system. JL can correct me if I'm wrong but the essence of the setup is the have different but equal cars on the track. The posted time on the track is at or around the the ultimate race speed of the car for the given driver. There will be a difference of performance of cars because a slower driver will need a faster car to run the same lap time of a faster driver. Sneaking but not really sneaking
That is what I myself had been looking for when I make a car choice,something that is going to be right at the posted breakout when driving my best laps.Some people would just rather win all the time,as opposed to having good close racing.
JLBowler
Premium
- 7,995
- California
- JLBowler
Friday Night Index racing will be taking a break while I retool some of the regulations and bank up some combinations. I will probably be on this Friday night to do some testing. Anyone is welcome to join and help with the process. I'll post when I open up the room Friday night.
Regular racing will return on March 17 as March 10 is the ROC.
Regular racing will return on March 17 as March 10 is the ROC.
JLBowler
Premium
- 7,995
- California
- JLBowler
I had given the rolling start consideration and that may be the way to do it. We might have to go to a set number of laps instead of the timed endurance setting if we go that direction. We would have to balance the start point so that someone couldn't gain a large advantage before the start finish line but so that the first hot lap would be close to the full potential of the car.
I had also forgot to mention that there will be a rule for when you want to "pedal" on a lap. If you're going to have to slow down to try and make the index time, you will need to get off the racing line and merge back in so that others don't have to navigate around a slower car in the middle of everything.
- 636
- Penal
- basswerks1
Looking forward to this format. Even more since we moved to 3 divisions.
JLBowler
Premium
- 7,995
- California
- JLBowler
Restructuring needs some group testing to be done. This Friday night will serve as a testing night. We will be testing rolling starts to see if that is a viable fix or if there needs to be a first lap index time that is separate from the regular index time.
We will start with the last set of tracks that was posted.
We will also be adding a rule that reads as follows: If you wish to "pedal" or slow down so as not to break the index time on a given lap you must follow these steps.
We will start with the last set of tracks that was posted.
We will also be adding a rule that reads as follows: If you wish to "pedal" or slow down so as not to break the index time on a given lap you must follow these steps.
- Pull off the racing line while still at speed.
- Slow as needed.
- Return to the racing line once you are back at speed.
- 3,833
- socal
- SAMHAIN85
Heres my thoughts so far:
4WD will obviously give you a huge advantage if we start from a dead stop like we have in the past. When I used the escudo at nurburgring I flew away right out of the gate and felt like I was cheating. Although I didn't do enough trial and error with that combo and that car was wayyyyy over powered and running wayyy under the index times. So maybe prohibiting 4WD cars would help even things out for atleast the start.
A rolling start would be cool and prevent 4WD from having an advantage. You might wonder how does one really get an advantage in this format if everyone cant exceed a certain lap time. Well if you're able to jump out to an early lead, itll be much easier running index laps than if you were in traffic and running side by side.
This series really requires some testing on everyone's behalf. Its not going to be easy for someone to hop in and in 5 minutes be ready with their car. Paying attention to split times is crucial, and you'll begin to get a feel for your car and how fast your laptime will be before you even cross the finish line. And it helps to use landmarks or objects around the track to create your own splits. For example R1 at brands hatch last time we ran this, I used the white line running across the track before the pits as a guideline. I forget the exact time, but if I hit the line at lets say 1:06, I knew I was good and wouldn't run under the index time. If I hit it at 1:08, I could hit the NOS for a few seconds and make up that lost time when I crossed the finish line. But that also meant that I'm traveling faster than normal into T1 for a fresh lap, so now I may have to slow down at some point so I dont breakout. Same goes for if you slow down right before the finish line to prevent breaking out. Now when you start your next lap, you're not traveling at full speed so your lap will automatically be slower than normal and you need a way to make up for that lost time. Wether it be NOS or extra HP.
As far as grid starts go, I like the idea for fastest first for R1, and then reverse grid for R2/R3. In "qualifying" for R1, everyone will be able to see the fastest lap. If its a breakout lap, and were doing a rolling start, that person should then let everyone pass him by and start from the back. Sort of a punishment for running a lap too fast. In fact we could set the room to "qualifier" and that way we could see everyones times before the race, and if the top 3 positions broke out then all 3 start from the back and 4th place would become "polesitter". For the following races I think its fair for reverse grid to allow the guys who ran last up front with nothing in front of them. And the leaders to start from the back and "work their way up" if you will.
Thats my 2c.
4WD will obviously give you a huge advantage if we start from a dead stop like we have in the past. When I used the escudo at nurburgring I flew away right out of the gate and felt like I was cheating. Although I didn't do enough trial and error with that combo and that car was wayyyyy over powered and running wayyy under the index times. So maybe prohibiting 4WD cars would help even things out for atleast the start.
A rolling start would be cool and prevent 4WD from having an advantage. You might wonder how does one really get an advantage in this format if everyone cant exceed a certain lap time. Well if you're able to jump out to an early lead, itll be much easier running index laps than if you were in traffic and running side by side.
This series really requires some testing on everyone's behalf. Its not going to be easy for someone to hop in and in 5 minutes be ready with their car. Paying attention to split times is crucial, and you'll begin to get a feel for your car and how fast your laptime will be before you even cross the finish line. And it helps to use landmarks or objects around the track to create your own splits. For example R1 at brands hatch last time we ran this, I used the white line running across the track before the pits as a guideline. I forget the exact time, but if I hit the line at lets say 1:06, I knew I was good and wouldn't run under the index time. If I hit it at 1:08, I could hit the NOS for a few seconds and make up that lost time when I crossed the finish line. But that also meant that I'm traveling faster than normal into T1 for a fresh lap, so now I may have to slow down at some point so I dont breakout. Same goes for if you slow down right before the finish line to prevent breaking out. Now when you start your next lap, you're not traveling at full speed so your lap will automatically be slower than normal and you need a way to make up for that lost time. Wether it be NOS or extra HP.
As far as grid starts go, I like the idea for fastest first for R1, and then reverse grid for R2/R3. In "qualifying" for R1, everyone will be able to see the fastest lap. If its a breakout lap, and were doing a rolling start, that person should then let everyone pass him by and start from the back. Sort of a punishment for running a lap too fast. In fact we could set the room to "qualifier" and that way we could see everyones times before the race, and if the top 3 positions broke out then all 3 start from the back and 4th place would become "polesitter". For the following races I think its fair for reverse grid to allow the guys who ran last up front with nothing in front of them. And the leaders to start from the back and "work their way up" if you will.
Thats my 2c.
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- 1,204
- Lihu'e, Hawaii
- GTLehman
I'm not fond of nitrous, but the races I chose the P4 were because it had great straightline speed, especially from a standing start, had great cornering and I detuned it so that I was fairly close to the breakout time. That strategy worked well with that car. I never really picked a car that had that kind of strategy balance in the other races. I never really had to 'pedal', although I did have to mind my sector times as Sam mentioned.
I'd like to help with testing Friday - I'm on call until 10, but will be there if I don't get called out.
I'd like to help with testing Friday - I'm on call until 10, but will be there if I don't get called out.
- 2,182
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
Some unsolicited advice submitted for consideration based upon my experiences in parity racing;
-Dump the NOS.
-2WD cars only.
-Rolling start.
-Specify not only a target time, but also a maximum speed. This alone, prevents a lot of the issues you may see with cars that blast the straights, park the turns, and still win. If you slow those cars down on the straights they have to find their speed elsewhere, which further condenses the pack.
-Perhaps have an informal first race/session where folks can practice some and possibly dial in a bit closer to target. This can benefit those outliers who chose extreme oddball cars and those who have not practiced in a pack that week.
The first 4 above would likely fix 90% of the 'sandbagging.' I'm not using this term in the derogatory, but rather the literal necessity given it can occur in this type of racing without intent, such as when a car picks up unexpected speed in the draft(like many aero-dependent cars.)
Lastly, I would offer a suggestion to those setting up cars; do not target the target time as an average. Target the target time as a hard deck. As in DO NOT eclipse it. I know I said this in practice one night to some folks, but 99% of the time you'll find the car is faster on track in a pack than practicing alone. The draft, pressure from the guy bump-drafting you down the straight, adrenaline, etc all works to speed up the pace. Targeting the target time as something you can run most of the time, means that some of the time you're going to break out. Hitting the target time(I'm talking about to the tenth) more than a couple laps of every ten in practice is going to have you likely breaking out during the race.
IMO, if you are having to consciously 'pull back' at all during the race, you're doing it wrong.
Again, just free unsolicited input in the form of a collection of my experiences and opinion. Take one, take some, take none; they're all free.
I'd like to see this series work well.
-Dump the NOS.
-2WD cars only.
-Rolling start.
-Specify not only a target time, but also a maximum speed. This alone, prevents a lot of the issues you may see with cars that blast the straights, park the turns, and still win. If you slow those cars down on the straights they have to find their speed elsewhere, which further condenses the pack.
-Perhaps have an informal first race/session where folks can practice some and possibly dial in a bit closer to target. This can benefit those outliers who chose extreme oddball cars and those who have not practiced in a pack that week.
The first 4 above would likely fix 90% of the 'sandbagging.' I'm not using this term in the derogatory, but rather the literal necessity given it can occur in this type of racing without intent, such as when a car picks up unexpected speed in the draft(like many aero-dependent cars.)
Lastly, I would offer a suggestion to those setting up cars; do not target the target time as an average. Target the target time as a hard deck. As in DO NOT eclipse it. I know I said this in practice one night to some folks, but 99% of the time you'll find the car is faster on track in a pack than practicing alone. The draft, pressure from the guy bump-drafting you down the straight, adrenaline, etc all works to speed up the pace. Targeting the target time as something you can run most of the time, means that some of the time you're going to break out. Hitting the target time(I'm talking about to the tenth) more than a couple laps of every ten in practice is going to have you likely breaking out during the race.
IMO, if you are having to consciously 'pull back' at all during the race, you're doing it wrong.
Again, just free unsolicited input in the form of a collection of my experiences and opinion. Take one, take some, take none; they're all free.
I'd like to see this series work well.
- 3,833
- socal
- SAMHAIN85
To add that your car gets faster in the race, is the fact that you're actually getting "better" with the car the more laps you run. I was noticing this in a few races, wondering why I'm running faster than practice. And part of the reason is from finding speed in some sections of the track I wasn't getting before. Just from being more familiar with the car and its limits. Thats something to take into account too.
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