Gay Marriage

[Duke]

here are my 2 cents

why would any child want to be raised in a male-male or female-female family? i just find that horrific...

Why would any child want to be raised in a Fundamentalist family of any religion? I find that horrific myself, in all sincerity.

wouldnt it make better sense for male-female since they are perfect matches? thats kind of like having 2 cars but no one to drive them or two people who dont have any cars...

Perfect matches? Are you freaking kidding me? Tell that to half the hetero couples I see who fight, cheat, ignore each other, or get divorced.

Yeah, that's so much better than a stable, committed, mongamous gay relationship.

Absurd. It would be funny or maybe pitiful if it wasn't so dangerous.

i would hate to be the child who was raised in a male male or female female family...if any of his classmates found out (anywhere from K-12) he would not be a happy campler in school

Frankly, I'd hate to be a child who was raised in a Fundamentalist family. I doubt they get spared much teasing, either. PLUS they're trained to hate people who their Book says are Sinners.

not to mention God created adam and eve, not adam and steve...the bible calls homosexuality sin...but thats a different topic for another thread

You know what? Take your freaking Bible and shove it up your... err, down your garbage disposal.

I categorically DENY ANY AUTHORITY that your Bible claims over me. I'm so sick of hearing about it and how it (or the Koran, or the Torah, or the Zoroastrian papers, or any other bit of insane gibberish you can convince more than three people to believe in) should dictate the lives of the other 27 billion people on Earth.

I'm ready to kill you all and let your own damn gods sort you out. You're all a bunch of [expletives deleted]. I'm done.

 

[Swift]

And that's exactly why I'm so angry. "Hey, I know better than you, you have to live your life the way I see fit."

Swfit – Believe it if you wish, but don't force other people to oblige by it.

But you're putting your beliefs on me. You just believe something diffferent. We're doing exactly the same thing, but you believe something different.

You know what? Take your freaking Bible and shove it up your... err, down your garbage disposal.

I categorically DENY ANY AUTHORITY that your Bible claims over me. I'm so sick of hearing about it and how it (or the Koran, or the Torah, or the Zoroastrian papers, or any other bit of insane gibberish you can convince more than three people to believe in) should dictate the lives of the other 27 billion people on Earth.

I'm ready to kill you all and let your own damn gods sort you out. You're all a bunch of [expletives deleted]. I'm done.

Wow, I deny evolution and I'm just an idiot. Well, I'll say it like this. Just because you don't believe something doesn't make it go away.

 

[Delirious]

but duke...i wasnt being specific to a church family, im just saying for ANYONE

not to mention why i added the note for that it's another topic

plus i would think homosexual marriages would have equal fights...but the fighting part isnt what i was talking about...they are emotionally, physically, and mentally i believe to be a perfect match (male and female)

ten...im not being open minded by that?? how so

 

[Sage]

I say make the law blind. That gives you, me, Ten, and HondaKid86 (I see you viewing this thread ) freedom to believe what we want. If you make the law in your own eye, then you're the only one with freedom.

You want to restrict people. I don't. That's the key difference.

 

[Duke]

But you're putting your beliefs on me. You just believe something diffferent. We're doing exactly the same thing, but you believe something different.

In the name of humanity, CAN'T YOU SEE THE FREAKING DIFFERENCE?!
Nobody is making YOU be gay. Nobody is forcing YOUR church to accept them as members or marry them! Nobody human is forcing YOU to live a certain way! You are totally free to set the terms of your own life however it pleases your God!

But how in any way do you think that gives you the authority to dictate MY life? That's so incredibly offensive I'm nearly moved to tears of rage and frustration.

 

[Delirious]

i wanted to clarify my first post duke so that you didnt get the wrong idea

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Actually there are only 6.5 billion people on Earth;

But how in any way do you think that gives you the authority to dictate MY life? That's so incredibly offensive I'm nearly moved to tears of rage and frustration.

 

[HondaKid86]

not to mention God created adam and eve, not adam and steve...

You know, rhyming your arguments is almost convincing.

Almost.

 

[Duke]

but duke...i wasnt being specific to a church family, im just saying for ANYONE

not to mention why i added the note for that it's another topic

ten...im not being open minded by that?? how so

??? I'm telling you that other people exist in the world who do not share you incredibly limited view of life. I am being specific. You say you think it's horrifying to be raised by gays? Judging by what I'm seeing here tonight I'm literally saying it's horrifying to be raised by Christians.

And please explain how you are being open minded in any possible, imagineable, definition of the term. Actually, don't bother. You're so totally cluesless that I'm beginning to question if we're speaking the same language.

 

[Ten]

Well, XVII, despite stating it was for another thread, you still said it. So now I know that you subscribe to that horribly ignorant pun. I can't simply ignore it just because you told me to.

You disagree with my lifestyle because a book tells you to. How isn't that close-minded? And don't come back by saying that you're looking out for the best interest of the child with the same sex parents, because we both know that's total bollocks. If it weren't for people who think like you, and live to persecute, there'd be no worry about it.

 

[Delirious]

...did i not mention that part of my argument is for another thread?

i still cannot get over how a child could live in a home with 2 of the same gender and somehow live a happy life... (that is being raised by 2 male or 2 female LEGAL joined and married parents, not just regular babysitters)

physically, mentally, socially, i believe male and female are a perfect match

now i see why i dont like the opinions forum much...im done
ive given my 2 cents...trying not to give a christian answer...but a logical answer that would make sense to everyone here...

 

[Duke]

...did i not mention that part of my argument is for another thread?

i still cannot get over how a child could live in a home with 2 of the same gender and somehow live a happy life...

physically, mentally, socially, i believe male and female are a perfect match

Goody for you. Go to your ****ing deathbed believing that. Soon.
I literally cannot get over how a child could be raised in a Fundamentalist Christian home and somehow live a happy life. Excpet perhaps by persecuting and oppressing anyone else who doesn't happen to conform to God's perfection.

Like I said, this would be laughably pathetic if it wasn't so lethally dangerous.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

...did i not mention that part of my argument is for another thread?

i still cannot get over how a child could live in a home with 2 of the same gender and somehow live a happy life... (that is being raised by 2 male or 2 female LEGAL joined and married parents, not just regular babysitters)

physically, mentally, socially, i believe male and female are a perfect match

He worded this very carefully. I don't hear him saying gay marriage should be illegal... he's only stating his opinion. How is this forcing his beliefs onto others?

 

[Sage]

*Slaps forehead*

I think I'm going to cry.

 

[Duke]

You know damn well what he means.

[edit] I am crying. I've bitten the inside of my lip trying to stop from howling in rage at the sheer bloodyminded idiocy of it.

 

[Ten]

Fine, I'll play your game.

Your religion sucks because I don't believe in it. But don't you dare comment on it - it's for another thread!

I can be just as immature as you can be, pal. While we're at it, how about I tear down your lifestyle and tell you that some religion I just made up on the fly says you'll go to a place worse than hell if you keep living life the way you do?

Oh wait, I can't. I forgot - I DON'T HAVE THE ****ING GOVERNMENT BACKING MY RELIGION!

I'm sorry....I just can't take this anymore. There's no denying it - I'm pretty much powerless to defend myself.

 

[Delirious]

duke...lets keep the idea of a child being raised in a christian home irrelevant

(i said i was done, but i want to clarify)

e.g. you have a male and a female married (if they are christian or not is irrelevant) and a male and male couple married (or female or female) compare and contrast

and i just wanted to give LOGICAL reasons why i think the idea of gay marriage is absurd...completely secular logical reasons having nothing to do with christianity

now im done

 

[Swift]

In the name of humanity, CAN'T YOU SEE THE FREAKING DIFFERENCE?!
Nobody is making YOU be gay. Nobody is forcing YOUR church to accept them as members or marry them! Nobody human is forcing YOU to live a certain way! You are totally free to set the terms of your own life however it pleases your God!

But how in any way do you think that gives you the authority to dictate MY life? That's so incredibly offensive I'm nearly moved to tears of rage and frustration.

Scary thought.

Well, lets see. What kind of person would I be if I didn't stand up for what I believe in. Like you're doing right now? If I was just silent and said.."Well, nobody is going to like what I say so I won't say anything" Nope, instead I'm a witness. Now, if you want to call not allowing gay marriage pushing my faith on people so be it. But since you believe in nothing outside of yourself, it's impossible for you to grasp the concept of what I'm trying to do. This is not about oppressing people. It's about love. I love you too much to knowingly let you or anyone else go to hell. So I will do all in my power to help you to find God. Whether you do or not is up to you.

I stand up for what I believe in and you become enraged. I'm not a communist or a facist. But I've never seen you that angry of anything in recent past. Why would you become so angry?

 

[Ten]

This is the second time an internet discussion has literally brought me to tears. Ironically, the same website.

 

[Duke]

Scary thought.

Well, lets see. What kind of person would I be if I didn't stand up for what I believe in. Like you're doing right now? If I was just silent and said.."Well, nobody is going to like what I say so I won't say anything" Nope, instead I'm a witness. Now, if you want to call not allowing gay marriage pushing my faith on people so be it. But since you believe in nothing outside of yourself, it's impossible for you to grasp the concept of what I'm trying to do. This is not about oppressing people. It's about love. I love you too much to knowingly let you or anyone else go to hell. So I will do all in my power to help you to find God. Whether you do or not is up to you.

I stand up for what I believe in and you become enraged. I'm not a communist or a facist. But I've never seen you that angry of anything in recent past. Why would you become so angry?

I'd be incredibly proud of you if you stood up for what you believe in and applied it to only to yourself, or perhaps made reasonable, persuasive points to interested people explaining why you thought there was a better way for them. Instead I'm disgusted that you believe you know better than everyone else in the world, and you appear determined to force that knowledge on them.

Let's try it your way:

I love you, too. I love you so much that I'm willing to legislate against your religion to prevent the evil perversion it's inflicting on a person who is otherwise a really good, caring man.

Nope, I just can't do it. I have to be true to myself:

I love you, too. I love you so much that I'm willing to trust that you'll know what's best for you, and that you'll live your life in accordance with those beliefs and principles.

That's the only possible way I can see to live my life.

 

[HondaKid86]

e.g. you have a male and a female married (if they are christian or not is irrelevant) and a male and male couple married (or female or female) compare and contrast

The only contrast I can discern takes place in a dark room behind a locked door when the kids are fast asleep. Tell me... would you let your children watch you having sex with your wife? Didn't think so. Do they have any grasp of mommy and daddy's sexuality? Do they know that you like for her to dress up like a nun and spank you for being such a naughty, naughty boy? No, they don't.

Children with gay parents know only that their parents love each other very much. When the children come of age, they will touch other people in exciting places and find out the old fashioned way whether they're gay or not. They won't be thinking of mommy and daddy (or mommy and mommy or daddy and daddy) when they go spelunking in other peoples' steez. They'll simply go for what they're sexually attracted to. Believe it or not, that's okay.

 

[Swift]

You know what gets me. You guys think you're right because you think you're right. XVII, Brian, myself and others point to the bible and we're close-minded jerks.

If you don't like what I'm saying fine. But don't get all offended by it. It's my right to say and believe what I want, just like it is for you. Just becuase we believe different things doesn't mean I think your somekind of maget. I love people, but I hate sin. There is a difference.

 

[HondaKid86]

I love people, but I hate sin. There is a difference.

If your "love" for someone is causing them great pain or inconvenience, or inhibiting their legal rights, you have an obligation to stop loving them in that way.

And that said, you have the right to believe whatever you want -- you do NOT have the right to legislate that belief and impose it upon everyone else.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

If your "love" for someone is causing them great pain or inconvenience, or inhibiting their legal rights, you have an obligation to stop loving them in that way.

Don't even get me started on private discrimination...

And that said, you have the right to believe whatever you want -- you do NOT have the right to legislate that belief and impose it upon everyone else.

Who said anything about legislating the belief?

 

[Swift]

If your "love" for someone is causing them great pain or inconvenience, or inhibiting their legal rights, you have an obligation to stop loving them in that way.

And that said, you have the right to believe whatever you want -- you do NOT have the right to legislate that belief and impose it upon everyone else.

Yeah, right...Well obviously you think pepole have the "right" to be gay. I don't. So, yeah.

 

[Zrow]

Who said anything about legislating the belief?

Maybe everyone who posted in this thread? Maybe because that's what this thread is essentially about?

 

[Sage]

This is not about oppressing people. It's about love. I love you too much to knowingly let you or anyone else go to hell. So I will do all in my power to help you to find God.

So you force your love onto others by oppressing them.

Whether you do or not is up to you.

That's the whole crux of this argument! By our philosophy, "whether you do or not is up to you". By your philosophy, we have to do what you want us to do. Because of Christians who hold your beliefs, homosexuals—Ten and HondaKid86, for example—can't get married. Not because that's your belief, necessarily, but because Christians pushed it through government.

I don't care if you believe it's sinful – you can personally believe that they'll burn in hell for all I (and they, probably) care. You can even try to convince us that it's bad, as long as you're not being obnoxious. But you have no right to force your beliefs onto them VIA THE LAW, VIA THE GOVERNMENT.

They have a right to happiness, and Christians are destroying it.

My gawd, this isn't hard – I'm not asking you to change your beliefs. I'm asking you to stop insisting that the government have anything to do with it, because it's not their damn business.

[edit]:

Yeah, right...Well obviously you think pepole have the "right" to be gay. I don't. So, yeah.

I–can't—believe—you—just—said—that. I need to get out of this thread.

 

[Zrow]

Yeah, right...Well obviously you think pepole have the "right" to be gay. I don't. So, yeah.

Why don't people have the right to be gay? It's a free country.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Maybe everyone who posted in this thread? Maybe because that's what this thread is essentially about?

I was talking about the people who engaged in this dicussion AFTER the thread was "revived". Obviously this thread is about legislation.

Not because that's your belief, necessarily, but because Christians pushed it through government.

So then ask yourself this, Sage. Why isn't the Libertarian party pushing HARD enough for gay marriage. Could it be that they're too busy removing restrictions on business?

 

[Duke]

You know what gets me. You guys think you're right because you think you're right. XVII, Brian, myself and others point to the bible and we're close-minded jerks.

NO!
We think WE are right FOR OURSELVES and we think YOU are right FOR YOURSELF.

But what you think is that YOU are right for US. That's such an easy to see, critical difference. And it's why our point is valid and yours is not.

My life, whatever it is, DOES NOT AFFECT YOUR MORALITY, unless we drag the stupid butterfly back into it. BUT YOUR MORALITY AFFECTS MY LIFE when you make it a law or impose it on me.

If you don't like what I'm saying fine. But don't get all offended by it. It's my right to say and believe what I want, just like it is for you. Just becuase we believe different things doesn't mean I think your somekind of maget. I love people, but I hate sin. There is a difference.

I'm NOT offended by what you believe for yourself in any way. You have my approval to believe whatever you wish concerning your own life. What OFFENDS me is that people like you feel the need and the authority to dictate what I should feel.

If you just sat here and told me you thought homosexuality was a sin, it would be a calm, reasonable discussion about the nature of sin and why we thought it was labelled as such.

But to sit here and hear that it should be LEGISLATED against is what really chaps my ass. Remember, allowing gay marriage DOES NOT MAKE YOU HAVE ONE IN YOUR LIFE OR IN YOUR CHURCH.