Gay Marriage

[ledhed]

What if I was?

be sure to turn off the light , and dont forget the dry cleaning.

 

[vladimir]

Wow, 63 pages on this...[...]


And the truth is, that shouldn't concern me. I'm his older brother, and I'll support him no matter what.
[...]

good post carlos, especially this sentence shows that you hold true values 👍

 

[Pako]

Energizer bunny thread, that's what this is.......,
it keeps going, and going, and going....

So, would it help, in the interest of sacrifice that I file my taxes as single and not married. I would do that for you guys to show my support for choices you have made. You know, to help you out, to show that I'm willing to help even things out.

On a side note, the way I see it, it will only be a matter of time that we will see same sex marriages being recognized by our legal system. If you want your peers to recognize it, you could start today. Again, you don’t need a piece of paper to say you’re married. I’ve only seen my marriage license once, and that was when I signed it. Don’t define yourself by what a piece of paper says you are.

 

[PS]

in response to carlos...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_fixe1.htm
and
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_fixe2.htm

and im done with this thread since it's not like you guys will change your minds...and im not changing mine

What are those sites supposed to do? All they do is prove you wrong.

Can a Person Change their Sexual Orientation?
bullet Human sexuality researchers, religious liberals, gays and lesbians generally agree that a person's sexual orientation is determined before reaching school age. Once established, sexual feelings are unchangeable. In terms of behavior by sexually active adults researchers accept three normal, natural expressions of sexual feelings:

- Heterosexuals (over 90% of the adult population) can chose to enter into sexual relationships with members of the opposite sex, or be celibate.
- Homosexuals (about 5%) can chose to become involved with members of the same gender or be celibate
- Bisexuals (fewer than 5%) can become involved with members of either gender or be celibate
- Many of the conservative religious organizations disagree. They feel that sexual orientation is a matter of choice, is sinful behavior, and can be changed through counseling and prayer. Some ministries, professional organizations and mutual support/self help groups specialize in attempting to change homosexuals and bisexuals into heterosexuals. Their long-term successes appear to be in two areas:
- convincing bisexuals to restrict their sexual activities to members of the opposite sex
- convincing homosexuals to remain celibate.

 

[vladimir]

On a side note, the way I see it, it will only be a matter of time that we will see same sex marriages being recognized by our legal system. If you want your peers to recognize it, you could start today. Again, you don’t need a piece of paper to say you’re married. I’ve only seen my marriage license once, and that was when I signed it. Don’t define yourself by what a piece of paper says you are.

i don't care about some paper...what i want is the right to be able to see my boyfriend if he is sick or injured and in the hospital. without the paper i would be just a stranger legally, at least in germany.

 

[Danoff]

So, would it help, in the interest of sacrifice that I file my taxes as single and not married. I would do that for you guys to show my support for choices you have made. You know, to help you out, to show that I'm willing to help even things out.

This is why marriage creates a favored class of people - they get monetary incentives (or penalties in some cases).

I'm for doing away with the legal institution of marriage altogether. No tax breaks (or penalties). The convenience of marriage can be had through other legal documens (wills, joint ownership , guardianship, etc).

 

[Pako]

This is why marriage creates a favored class of people - they get monetary incentives (or penalties in some cases).

I'm for doing away with the legal institution of marriage altogether. No tax breaks (or penalties). The convenience of marriage can be had through other legal documens (wills, joint ownership , guardianship, etc).

Interesting.... That's the best idea and most level headed thing I've heard yet. A lot of laws would have to be retooled as they use the "spouse" as the dominant figure for a lot of different things.

 

[Pako]

i don't care about some paper...what i want is the right to be able to see my boyfriend if he is sick or injured and in the hospital. without the paper i would be just a stranger legally, at least in germany.

That's pretty hard core. So you can't have him sign a waiver or statement of request in case something happens?

 

[Joey D]

In america all you would do is say you are family, because I guess techincally you are and they would send you back. That's how I got to see my best friend when he was in the hospitial.

 

[Duke]

That's pretty hard core. So you can't have him sign a waiver or statement of request in case something happens?

Most company health insurance policies will only cover spouse and immediate family; the same with pensions. So what about that?

I've been married for almost 15 years. If I was gay, I wouldn't be allowed to have my partner covered under my company's health benefit, I wouldn't be allowed to list him as a beneficiary of my 401k, and my pension would evaporate with my death.

Would that be fair to a steadfast partner who stood by me "for richer, and poorer; in sickness, and in health; through good times, and bad"?

 

[vladimir]

That's pretty hard core. So you can't have him sign a waiver or statement of request in case something happens?

you can but nobody has to acknowledge it. only the legal union for homosexuals makes the partner a part of the family.

 

[Danoff]

Interesting.... That's the best idea and most level headed thing I've heard yet. A lot of laws would have to be retooled as they use the "spouse" as the dominant figure for a lot of different things.

I'm glad you're receptive to it. It's the possibly inescapable conclusion one reaches when you follow my previous line of arguments.

The laws would have to be retooled a bit, but in most cases spouse would simply be replaced by "guardian" or "beneficiary" or some other suitable term that refers to a specific legal document. That would be more accurate anyway.

This is very unlibertarian of me to suggest but we could even go as far as allowing people to put their guardian's information on their driver's license so that the guardian could be quickly identified in case of accident.

 

[Ten]

Interesting.... That's the best idea and most level headed thing I've heard yet. A lot of laws would have to be retooled as they use the "spouse" as the dominant figure for a lot of different things.

Now that I can agree to.

 

[Pako]

danoff,

What have you done here....? Am I hearing a common voice being spoken? Well done!

 

[Flame-returns]

I've been watching this thread for about 2 weeks trying to untangle the seeminly very small number of sane people from the right-wing christian nutters, I havnt quite finished yet (I'm very iffy about Swift, a blatent gay basher in a position of power, god this site has sunk low) but the level of derogatory homaphobic posts has demanded action.


How dare you impose your stupid stuck up morality on anyone else they (or us i havnt quite made up my mind yet) have just as much right to their existance and emotion as you do (more infact, have you even read the new testament) like it or not gays exist and god does not (Or atleast there is a heck of a lot more evidence of gays.)

Everytime i view this thread you, ALL of you are simply arguing for the hell of it, you accuse each other of being closet gays. Or you claim to be a repressed minority buut that gays are not, I have seen over this threads history very few constructive posts. WHY THE HELL CANT YOU JUST GET TO THE ISSUE AT HAND!!!!

Gay marriages= yes

 

[Ten]

snip

danoff,

What have you done here....? Am I hearing a common voice being spoken? Well done!

What is this...strange new idea?? Getting along? Agreeing on something from opposite sides of the fence? WHAT'S GOING ON???

 

[Danoff]

Now that I can agree to.

What have you done here....? Am I hearing a common voice being spoken? Well done!

What is this...strange new idea?? Getting along? Agreeing on something from opposite sides of the fence? WHAT'S GOING ON???

I'm sure that this is only a momentary cease fire. Hostilities will almost certainly spring back up. I'll enjoy it for the moment though.

 

[Ten]

I'm sure that this is only a momentary cease fire. Hostilities will almost certainly spring back up. I'll enjoy it for the moment though.

Aye, aye.

 

[Swift]

I've been watching this thread for about 2 weeks trying to untangle the seeminly very small number of sane people from the right-wing christian nutters, I havnt quite finished yet (I'm very iffy about Swift, a blatent gay basher in a position of power, god this site has sunk low) but the level of derogatory homaphobic posts has demanded action.

Gay marriages= yes

Yep, that's what I think. Gay people suck. They shouldn't be allowed to exist in the same realm as me nevermind have the ability to get married. 👎 Yeah, you've been reading really well. Obviously, you haven't the slightest clue as what I'm saying except that it comes from a christian stance. Other then that, you just think I'm hating on people.

Funny how you didn't mention the derogatory comments towards me, but I guess I deserved those huh?

Again, thanks a lot for the post. It was quite humerous.

BTW, I think ALL of us had had at least a partial enlightenment through this discussion.

 

[Joey D]

I've been watching this thread for about 2 weeks trying to untangle the seeminly very small number of sane people from the right-wing christian nutters, I havnt quite finished yet (I'm very iffy about Swift, a blatent gay basher in a position of power, god this site has sunk low) but the level of derogatory homaphobic posts has demanded action.


How dare you impose your stupid stuck up morality on anyone else they (or us i havnt quite made up my mind yet) have just as much right to their existance and emotion as you do (more infact, have you even read the new testament) like it or not gays exist and god does not (Or atleast there is a heck of a lot more evidence of gays.)

Everytime i view this thread you, ALL of you are simply arguing for the hell of it, you accuse each other of being closet gays. Or you claim to be a repressed minority buut that gays are not, I have seen over this threads history very few constructive posts. WHY THE HELL CANT YOU JUST GET TO THE ISSUE AT HAND!!!!

Gay marriages= yes

First off I'm very right wing and I support gay marriage, so watch what you say.

Wow you aren't going to get along very well in the opinion area with an attitude like that. I hate people that have a blantent disrespect for Republican's , you may not like us, which is fine, respect our opinions. I respect Democrats and other left wingers, I may not agree with them but they have my respect as long as they conduct themselves in a good manner, which as far as I can see most people here do.

And someone isn't wrong just because they disagree, it's what they think and it's perfectly fine for someone to not support gay marriage. In this country you are allowed to voice your opinion...in a calm way mind you.

I suggest you loosen up you mind and don't be quite such a jag.

 

[smellysocks12]

I don't think Swift is a gay basher, if he would have been he would have banned the gay people here, but he didn't. He isn't a fan of homosexuality, which is his opinion and he's entitled to have it. I'm not a fan of it either, as long as it doesn't concern me I don't care whatever other people do with it. Let em marry, it won't change my life if they can.



^ reply to a comment earlier on this page.

 

[Pako]

I've been watching this thread for about 2 weeks trying to untangle the seeminly very small number of sane people from the right-wing christian nutters, I havnt quite finished yet (I'm very iffy about Swift, a blatent gay basher in a position of power, god this site has sunk low) but the level of derogatory homaphobic posts has demanded action.


How dare you impose your stupid stuck up morality on anyone else they (or us i havnt quite made up my mind yet) have just as much right to their existance and emotion as you do (more infact, have you even read the new testament) like it or not gays exist and god does not (Or atleast there is a heck of a lot more evidence of gays.)

Everytime i view this thread you, ALL of you are simply arguing for the hell of it, you accuse each other of being closet gays. Or you claim to be a repressed minority buut that gays are not, I have seen over this threads history very few constructive posts. WHY THE HELL CANT YOU JUST GET TO THE ISSUE AT HAND!!!!

Gay marriages= yes

First off, if this were such a "cut and dry" topic, it wouldn't have lasted for 1300 posts and counting. It wouldn't be a hot topic in our society today. I think WE have done a very nice job in not getting too heated when we're talking about such matters that are so close to the heart. Your ignorant display of what you "think" this thread is about is misinformed. Please watch your attidude and the tone of your post.

Thanks.

 

[Pako]

What is this...strange new idea?? Getting along? Agreeing on something from opposite sides of the fence? WHAT'S GOING ON???

Quite odd isn't it, but what a concept.

I'm sure that this is only a momentary cease fire. Hostilities will almost certainly spring back up. I'll enjoy it for the moment though.

Sure is nice while it lasts.... 👍

 

[Ten]

I don't agree with Swift. I bicker with Swift. Swift bickers with me. We both feel eachother have a very wrong view on things. I can't stand his faith-based reasoning, and he doesn't seem to be too fond of mine, either.

If Swift is a gay-basher, then I'm a christ-basher.

Swift, XVII - you annoy the hell out of me, and you are everything I despise about people. However, you're people all the same - the same argument I've been using to uphold my side of the battle. To deny you that respect would be, as you pointed out earlier, counteractive to my statements.

My deepest apologies.

 

[Swift]

I don't agree with Swift. I bicker with Swift. Swift bickers with me. We both feel eachother have a very wrong view on things. I can't stand his faith-based reasoning, and he doesn't seem to be too fond of mine, either.

If Swift is a gay-basher, then I'm a christ-basher.

Swift, XVII - you annoy the hell out of me, and you are everything I despise about people. However, you're people all the same - the same argument I've been using to uphold my side of the battle. To deny you that respect would be, as you pointed out earlier, counteractive to my statements.

My deepest apologies.

No need to apoligize. This is something you're very passionate about and it will get a bit heated. But as long as we all recogonize that we need to respect each other, it's all good!

 

[PS]

It almost seems like we needed some moron to say something stupid to bring us back to our senses. It's like Christmas.

 

[Joey D]

I'm waiting for the Flame-return guy to come back so we can own him again and again. I guess we need a new topic all this love is just....

 

[Ten]

It almost seems like we needed some moron to say something stupid to bring us back to our senses. It's like Christmas.

I was thinking the same thing, but was afraid to jinx it.

 

[Swift]

It's really sad if we're not able to disagree without yelling and screaming at each other. If that's the case, Ten, you were very right to split.

 

[smellysocks12]

Lets celebrate this momentary cease fire between the gays and christians... WOOOHOOO!!

Loooook! ANGELS!