Gay Marriage

[LeeMoldon]

Was written originally for Danoff not Jondot

 

[DK]

I think YOU will find that to assume, generally makes an "ASS of U and ME".

That's actually something my maths teacher says.

 

[Danoff]

Well guess what, YOU GUESSED WRONG!!

I think YOU will find that to assume, generally makes an "ASS of U and ME".

I don't generally find that people freak out when I ask a question like this:

Unless that thing is an employer and an employee agreeing to a salary that's lower than you think it should be... amiright?

But feel free to keep spazing. You seem to be enjoying yourself.

(a more appropriate response would have been "nournot")

 

[Jondot]

C'mon, you are assuming you know what i'm thinking again, when really you don't. You couldn't possibly know how i'm acting OR what I am thinking.

Sorry dear, must have been thrown off by the shouty capitals and multiple exclamation marks. Don't I feel silly

Don't particularly care what you're thinking to be honest - I'm not here to attempt to guess. It's generally your place to try to get that across via your posts themselves, which I tend to go off as I'm not given any further evidence on what's going on in your head. If you'd like to telephone me and read out your posts in a tone that I can be assured it was intended, then by all means do so. But until then I'll continue to base my logic on the style of your posts, which I believe is a perfectly acceptable thing to do on a website where it's the only foreseeable option. By posting in a way that implies you're upset (twice), you don't really have the right to be surprised or defensive when someone calls you out on it.

You are just saying you do, in order to win a non-existent arguement, that you have been trying to start with various people in this thread for quite a while.

Have I? Oh right, nice to know.

I've argued (or 'debated') in this thread with people on the homosexual marriage basis; I don't recall doing so on the basis of post semantics. Until now, anyway. Feel free to link me to where I've done so up until this point.

As for the 'non-existent argument', I'd say that the act of replying to my particular post kinda turns it into one. But what do I know.

To say all my points are invalid now is also complete tosh, but i wouldn't expect anything else to be quite honest.

Don't recall saying that. In fact I think I said 'point' (singular), refering to the one that presumably underpinned the post you'd just written. Which I quoted. Where you were rather rude to Danoff for seemingly no reason.

It's also interesting that you've said 'I wouldn't have expected anything else', as it implies that you know me as a person, or at the very least a member on this forum. Which I'm fairly certain you do not, unless in the 2 years that you've been registered you've successfully read through each of my 5,000 posts, and have formed an opinion based on those - just in case an argument such as this may have cropped up with me. Which, frankly, would make me a little scared. But I'll go right ahead and assume you've tacked it on in the hope that it'll make you seem a little more wise.




This forum is fun.

 

[Earth]

Will that be the future of humanity?

On its present course humanity has no future.

Why even have marriage? Why should a father care about his kids if we're just animals? Why should partners be faithful to eachother? Why force a father to pay child support and take care of his child if we're just animals ?

Tiger Woods wanted to have relations with females other then his wife, hows that a problem if we're just animals? What right does his wife have to not want him to fulfill his desire to be with other women as well as her? Why not let him have unlimited freedom? After all we're just animals, as some claim.

And if you cant see the fundamental difference between humans and animals I feel sorry for you. I really do.

You know lets just get rid of marriage all together. Let men and women, woman and woman, man and man stay together, have kids, adopt kids, raise them.

Lets see how that benefits society and helps the family arrangement. You want to bet that familes will be better then they are today with no family arrangement?

And you people who think you are so far above the influence of the media and this world, tell me, have school shootings become less shocking to you? Has suicide bombings become less shocking to you? Has people flying planes into buildings become more of a normal thing to you? If yes, you've been influenced by the media and have been desensitized to corrupt behavior around you. Even I am not immune, but I can catch myself sometimes by at least being aware of the danger and not being so overconfident to think I am immune.

In the same way American Idol flaunting sexual deviants like Adam Lambert on stage make you more accustom to such behavior. Lambert dressed up in exotic clothing, paints his eyes, wears tight jeans and other things to look different, cool and appearling. Some find this 'different' look attractive, and when he simulates oral sex with a male band member in the middle of a song they accept it, because they like him. "Oh hes just wild" is the excuse they make. You have Lance Bass announcing "I'm Gay!" with a brig grin on the cover of magazines as if its something to be celebrated or in fact "superior" to a hetrosexual life. I have women at work who tell me they would love to hang around gay men because of how they are portrayed as "cool" and more compassionate then straight men on television. Home and Garden shows that show homosexual couples helping others to find houses, queer eye for the straight guy, ellen degeners, wanda skyes screaming over the microphone that homosexuality and gay marriage is perfectly fine and anybody who disagrees is close minded. All of this, over time, has made MANY MANY people sub consciously accept homosexuality and gay marriage as a perfectly fine alternative lifestyle. Go ahead, lie to yourself and say you haven't been affected in any way. Not knowing or simply ignoring the affect the mass media and mainstream has on you just makes you another drone. Wake up people! This crap has not been for decades, this is new!

Its at the point now where if you disagree your closed minded or a religious freak.

It takes 10x the courage to step up and speak out on what you believe when its extremely unpopular to do so. I'm going to step up and speak out, and I'm not apologizing.

In the end it doesn't really matter to me, though I feel terribly sorry for the kids who grow up same sex "marriages".

As I said this world has NO future. The constant break down of morals, the greed, and the breakdown of the economy has led to people like Joseph Stack.

Keep living your life and keep developing your society alienated from God and see which way that takes this country.

Go ahead, rip my post apart line by line, try to prove me wrong. Go ahead, waste your time. Nothing will change the fact that America and the whole world is in the toilet right now, and your gay marriage is going to screw family life and society up even further.

Its going to get to the point to where God intervenes, I'm sure that point is extremely close now, and when he does I pray I am on his side.

 

[Northstar]

and your gay marriage is going to screw family life and society up even further.

I don't see how gay marriage can screw it up anymore than what it already is. These days your family isn't normal if your parent's aren't divorced. I really think having a revolving door of step parents is more damaging than 2 moms/dads.

 

[Jondot]

I have women at work who tell me they would love to hang around gay men because of how they are portrayed as "cool"...

Then you know some very strange women...

 

[LeeMoldon]

Sorry dear, must have been thrown off by the shouty capitals and multiple exclamation marks. Don't I feel silly

Don't particularly care what you're thinking to be honest - I'm not here to attempt to guess. It's generally your place to try to get that across via your posts themselves, which I tend to go off as I'm not given any further evidence on what's going on in your head. If you'd like to telephone me and read out your posts in a tone that I can be assured it was intended, then by all means do so. But until then I'll continue to base my logic on the style of your posts, which I believe is a perfectly acceptable thing to do on a website where it's the only foreseeable option. By posting in a way that implies you're upset (twice), you don't really have the right to be surprised or defensive when someone calls you out on it.


Have I? Oh right, nice to know.

I've argued (or 'debated') in this thread with people on the homosexual marriage basis; I don't recall doing so on the basis of post semantics. Until now, anyway. Feel free to link me to where I've done so up until this point.

As for the 'non-existent argument', I'd say that the act of replying to my particular post kinda turns it into one. But what do I know.



Don't recall saying that. In fact I think I said 'point' (singular), refering to the one that presumably underpinned the post you'd just written. Which I quoted. Where you were rather rude to Danoff for seemingly no reason.

It's also interesting that you've said 'I wouldn't have expected anything else', as it implies that you know me as a person, or at the very least a member on this forum. Which I'm fairly certain you do not, unless in the 2 years that you've been registered you've successfully read through each of my 5,000 posts, and have formed an opinion based on those - just in case an argument such as this may have cropped up with me. Which, frankly, would make me a little scared. But I'll go right ahead and assume you've tacked it on in the hope that it'll make you seem a little more wise.




This forum is fun.

Let me first apologise to Jondot. I thought it was Danoff replying to me earlier and not you. That will teach me not to look more carefully. Please scrub anything i said in my earlier post to jondot.

secondly, I haven't got the hump and was not being shouty.

ta

 

[Danoff]

I thought it was Danoff replying to me earlier and not you.

You know, when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of you and umption.

 

[LeeMoldon]

You know, when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of you and umption.

good point, I think i had better go buy Umption a drink.

 

[Duke]

Why even have marriage? Why should a father care about his kids if we're just animals? Why should partners be faithful to eachother? Why force a father to pay child support and take care of his child if we're just animals?

Lots of animals share childrearing duties between father and mother. It works just about as often as not in evolutionary terms.

Tiger Woods wanted to have relations with females other then his wife, hows that a problem if we're just animals? What right does his wife have to not want him to fulfill his desire to be with other women as well as her? Why not let him have unlimited freedom? After all we're just animals, as some claim.

Woods signed a marriage contract (I assume) saying that he would be monogamously faithful to his wife, and (I assume) she did the same. The problem appears because he broke his avowed contract. It's got nothing to do with animality.

And if you cant see the fundamental difference between humans and animals I feel sorry for you. I really do.

And if you can't see the only meaningful difference is that we can use logic better than other animals, I feel sorry for you. I really do.

You know lets just get rid of marriage all together. Let men and women, woman and woman, man and man stay together, have kids, adopt kids, raise them.

Lets see how that benefits society and helps the family arrangement. You want to bet that familes will be better then they are today with no family arrangement?

OK! With heterosexual divorce rates at 50% or higher now, I can't see that it's going to make much of a difference.

What will make a difference is to promote the concept of personal responsibility. That's the fundamental issue. "Marriage" is a symptom, not a root cause.

Go ahead, lie to yourself and say you haven't been affected in any way. Not knowing or simply ignoring the affect the mass media and mainstream has on you just makes you another drone. Wake up people! This crap has not been for decades, this is new!

Its at the point now where if you disagree your closed minded or a religious freak.

So WE are media-perverted drones because we accept certain moral values. But somehow YOU are not a religion-perverted drone because you accept certain moral values?

Nice. Double standard much?

It takes 10x the courage to step up and speak out on what you believe when its extremely unpopular to do so. I'm going to step up and speak out, and I'm not apologizing.

And yet you can't see current tolerance and acceptance as the end result of generations of people like US having had the courage to step up and speak out on what we believe when it was extremely unpopular to do so... unbelievable. Double double standard much?

Ever heard of the civil rights movement? We're stepping up and speaking out too, and not apologizing either.

In the end it doesn't really matter to me, though I feel terribly sorry for the kids who grow up same sex "marriages".

Because after all, heterosexuals have a complete lockdown on good parenting skills.

As I said this world has NO future. The constant break down of morals, the greed, and the breakdown of the economy has led to people like Joseph Stack.

Keep living your life and keep developing your society alienated from God and see which way that takes this country.

Go ahead, rip my post apart line by line, try to prove me wrong. Go ahead, waste your time. Nothing will change the fact that America and the whole world is in the toilet right now, and your gay marriage is going to screw family life and society up even further.

Its going to get to the point to where God intervenes, I'm sure that point is extremely close now, and when he does I pray I am on his side.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[Earth]

I don't see how gay marriage can screw it up anymore than what it already is. These days your family isn't normal if your parent's aren't divorced. I really think having a revolving door of step parents is more damaging than 2 moms/dads.

So when 2 dads are explaining sex to their child, they will say, its fine to have anal sex with a man, or vaginal sex with a woman. Its your choice.

Thats CRAP.

I want people to think, think and ponder for one moment about what this does to children for crying out loud. Try to think past the stupid freedoms argument. Think about what this means in the long run. Think about the children

 

[Jondot]

So when 2 dads are explaining sex to their child, they will say, its fine to have anal sex with a man, or vaginal sex with a woman. Its your choice.

Thats CRAP.

Oh lord.

Just FYI, I'm sure thousands of heterosexual parents have had the exact same discussion with their children. I've spoken to a number of people whose parents have said that to them, albeit in a less graphic detail.

 

[Joey D]

I want people to think, think and ponder for one moment about what this does to children for crying out loud. Try to think past the stupid freedoms argument. Think about what this means in the long run. Think about the children

I've already addressed this though, kids are inherently screwed up if they have same sex parents. Once again please provide me with scientific data that says otherwise.

Your running an uphill battle JoeyD

Find me one person who would rather or wouldn't mind being raised by two of the same sex

Thats your answer

Running an uphill battle? That doesn't make any sense.

You are making claims, I am asking for evidence for these claims. Please show me scientific evidence supporting your claim that same sex parents provide a worse environment then opposite sex parents do.

I would like to quote a 2005 study (which has been peer reviewed) by WebMD:

Same-Sex Parents Raise Well-Adjusted Kids
Children growing up in same-sex parental households do not necessarily have differences in self-esteem, gender identity, or emotional problems from children growing up in heterosexual parent homes.

"There are a lot of children with at least one gay or lesbian parent," says Ellen C. Perrin, MD, professor of pediatrics at Tufts University School of Medicine in Boston. She revealed the findings at the American Academy of Pediatrics Conference and Exhibition.

Between 1 million and 6 million children in the U.S. are being reared by committed lesbian or gay couples, she says. Children being raised by same-sex parents were either born to a heterosexual couple, adopted, or conceived through artificial insemination.

"The vast consensus of all the studies shows that children of same-sex parents do as well as children whose parents are heterosexual in every way," she tells WebMD. "In some ways children of same-sex parents actually may have advantages over other family structures."

You can read the rest of the study here: WebMD

 

[homeforsummer]

Its going to get to the point to where God intervenes, I'm sure that point is extremely close now, and when he does I pray I am on his side.

God can sod off then. I'm quite happy with my life and I certainly wouldn't appreciate him sticking his big beard into the matter just because a few politicians are corrupt and a few crims go around batting old ladies over the head. "Judgement day" apparently affects one and all which is rather unfair if you've lived your life perfectly well yet chosen not to accept religion.

But perhaps that's a subject for another thread.

He can keep his nose out of gay marriage issues too. The message of "love" is always preached, and yet it's apparently frowned upon if two same-sex partners love each other, which is wonderfully contradictory.

Earth, your points appear to be nothing but the rantings of a lunatic. You appear to be preaching a distorted version of right and wrong that's way more convoluted, contradictory and self-riteous than the politicians and citizens you claim are destroying our society.

It just amuses me that people like you never think to look to yourselves when you're pointing the finger of blame at society.

 

[Earth]

Woods signed a marriage contract (I assume) saying that he would be monogamously faithful to his wife, and (I assume) she did the same. The problem appears because he broke his avowed contract. It's got nothing to do with animality.

Well, screw marriage since its so binding.

Get rid of it!

I cant wait to see all the gay couples making out at the mall. I just can't wait to live in that society. Boy I'm looking forward to that day. Oh and no marriage! Screw a guy, screw a woman, have a baby, move on, screw a guy, adopt a baby, teach it to screw screw guys, try to stop 13 year old johnny from sneaking in at night and screwing your "son" but hey its just kids dealing wtih hormones! have at it boys!

And if you can't see the only meaningful difference is that we can use logic better than other animals, I feel sorry for you. I really do.

Humans dont have a since of spirituality? I thought even the most diehard evolutionists accepted that.

OK! With heterosexual divorce rates at 50% or higher now, I can't see that it's going to make much of a difference.

What will make a difference is to promote the concept of personal responsibility. That's the fundamental issue. "Marriage" is a symptom, not a root cause.

If someone had a baby, why should there be responsibility? Just dump it off at an orphanage. But suddenly, if the mom keeps it the father is responsible, this world is screwed up and destined for nothing but bad!

Thats the problem with this world, people want to do whatever they want but they dont want any responsibiity. it dosnt work that way!

So WE are media-perverted drones because we accept certain moral values. But somehow YOU are not a religion-perverted drone because you accept certain moral values?

Nice. Double standard much?

My values have stayed the same, the media has changed hte values of countless millions. Thats the difference, one is every changing, one stays the same.

Now you may have had the same "values" for years, longer then even before I was born, but you cant tell me the way the media flaunts homosexuality around now as cool that hasnt changed the minds of millions.

And yet you can't see current tolerance and acceptance as the end result of generations of people like US having had the courage to step up and speak out on what we believe when it was extremely unpopular to do so... unbelievable. Double double standard much?

Ever heard of the civil rights movement? We're stepping up and speaking out too, and not apologizing either.

Civil rights movement was a totally different thing brother. Gays can have as much sex as they want, but when they want to try and rear a child with their unnatural lifestyle they've crossed the line. I dont want them screwin up a child's psychological welfare. How the hell is a child suppose to know if hes a male hes suppose to find a wife and procreate if hes got two dudes for parents. Its just scray to me thinking about what this could do. But no doubt in my mind God will interfere before anything like that gets out of control.

Wow. Just wow.

What you want to challenge that the morals of this world have become crap and its all going down the toilet? Even your scientists will tell you if things dont change humanity will crash. You got futurists like Michio KAKU who think one day humanity will all be some happy no war singing songs around the campfire buddy buddy. Thats crap. You cant change human nature. Human nature longs for limitless freedoms, but humans are imnperfect and their longings are not always right.

How is that so hard to get? What osmeone ma want to do is not always right.

 

[Earth]

Oh lord.

Just FYI, I'm sure thousands of heterosexual parents have had the exact same discussion with their children. I've spoken to a number of people whose parents have said that to them, albeit in a less graphic detail.

And if more having that conversation what is the reason behind it? Again the media during these last 10-15 years which has slowly made homosexuality out to be this perfectly fine alternative life style. Are you serious? Its unnatural.

Whats next, is sex ED at schools gonna teach boys how gay sex is accomplished?

If so I hope you dont mind your child seeing that! This is so unreal!

God can sod off then. I'm quite happy with my life and I certainly wouldn't appreciate him sticking his big beard into the matter just because a few politicians are corrupt and a few crims go around batting old ladies over the head. "Judgement day" apparently affects one and all which is rather unfair if you've lived your life perfectly well yet chosen not to accept religion.

But perhaps that's a subject for another thread.

He can keep his nose out of gay marriage issues too. The message of "love" is always preached, and yet it's apparently frowned upon if two same-sex partners love each other, which is wonderfully contradictory.

Earth, your points appear to be nothing but the rantings of a lunatic. You appear to be preaching a distorted version of right and wrong that's way more convoluted, contradictory and self-riteous than the politicians and citizens you claim are destroying our society.

It just amuses me that people like you never think to look to yourselves when you're pointing the finger of blame at society.

Forgetting God is like forgetting to read the instruction manual to your life and body, you can get away without doing it but be warned!

 

[Northstar]

Well, screw marriage since its so binding.

Get rid of it!

he never said that

try to stop 13 year old johnny from sneaking in at night and screwing your "son" but hey its just kids dealing wtih hormones! have at it boys!

No, I'm fairly sure that would be rape.

My values have stayed the same, the media has changed hte values of countless millions. Thats the difference, one is every changing, one stays the same.

So you developed your views completely on your own, not because your parents church or other surroundings.

Doubt it.

Now you may have had the same "values" for years, longer then even before I was born, but you cant tell me the way the media flaunts homosexuality around now as cool that hasnt changed the minds of millions.

I have seen more "anti-gay" statements on TV than "pro-gay".

How the hell is a child suppose to know if hes a male hes suppose to find a wife and procreate if hes got two dudes for parents. Its just scray to me thinking about what this could do.

Well, if they see a pic of a hot girl and gets a "funny" feeling I would guess he would realize what sex he likes more.

 

[Public'sTwin]

I notice, Earth, you have not replied to my answer despite having explicitly posted it on your profile wall.

Secondly, sarcasm and vague moralist rhetoric are not the foundations of a logically persuasive argument.

 

[Earth]

So you developed your views completely on your own, not because your parents church or other surroundings.

Doubt it.

My values were developed at a young age. They have stayed the same because I have found them personally to be right, unlike the values of countless millions which are decided by media and the mainstream. If I didnt belief strongly in my values I would be wishy washy as others are.

Was the sudden outbreak of the homosexual lifestyle/marriage in the last 10-15 years because suddenly the world was suddenly enlightened and ha a golden ray of sun shine down on their face or because hollywood, the media and the mainstream pushed it out there as a reasonable alternative lifestyle?

I have seen more "anti-gay" statements on TV than "pro-gay".

Really? I guess you never watch the Bravo channel, msnbc, a barrack obama speech, hillary clinton or virtually any liberal speech, or the magazines that unveil male actors as homsoexuals as somethiing to be celebrated. Whens the last time you saw a movie or a magazine be anti-gay? I certainly can't remember. All I here is wanda sykes, rosie oddonnel or others promotiing it. You talk against homosexuality now and you get blasted.

Well, if they see a pic of a hot girl and gets a "funny" feeling I would guess he would realize what sex he likes more.

So here we have the popular view of today, homosexuality is a choice.

If it is a bonefied choice, then lets teach it in Sex ED. Why discriminate against gay students? Dont they need to know how to have safe gay sex?

Lets not forget the lesbians. Lets teach them how to have sex.

I just dont think people are thinking of the consquences

 

[Duke]

So when 2 dads are explaining sex to their child, they will say, its fine to have anal sex with a man, or vaginal sex with a woman. Its your choice.

Thats CRAP.

WHY? Why does that have to be crap for everybody just because you think so?

Why can't you explain to your kids that you think it's wrongto be homosexual, and most importantly WHY it's bad? Hint: you'll need to go into more detail than "It just is."

Why is everybody required to think just like you do?

I want people to think, think and ponder for one moment about what this does to children for crying out loud. Try to think past the stupid freedoms argument. Think about what this means in the long run.

I've got kids of my own that are your age at least. I've been pondering this question for 40 years myself and haven't found an issue with it. I'm teaching my kids that what others do is their own damn business as long as everybody involved in it consents.

Think about the children

I can't believe you actually wrote this with no apparent irony at all. Where's my Maude Flanders meme?

 

[Jondot]

And if more having that conversation what is the reason behind it?

The reason behind homosexuality existing is because people have that conversation, you mean? No.

Again the media during these last 10-15 years which has slowly made homosexuality out to be this perfectly fine alternative life style.

Which obviously, you have some sort of issue with. The majority of people do not, and aren't interested in segregating homosexuality to please a small number of people such as yourself.

Are you serious? Its unnatural.

Know your audience.

Whats next, is sex ED at schools gonna teach boys how gay sex is accomplished?

Yes.

If so I hope you dont mind your child seeing that! This is so unreal!

No more so than I'd mind my child being shown heterosexual sex.

 

[Earth]

[quotePublic'sTwin]That's not what she was saying; responsible parenting is responsible parenting regardless of orientation.

If the child turns out to be gay - so what? Is that what your point boils down to? That more kids could turn out to be gay?

If genetic indicators are anything - as they have been for the last 2 billion years - I would suspect homosexuality is not a threat or moral danger to mankind as you infer it to be. [/quote]

You could have two chimps raise a child, but is it best for the baby?

Hormones are naturally occurring - and synthetically reproducable - chemicals within the human body. There is no established causal link between hormones and sexual orientation; sexuality, furthermore, is not a preference: There is no choice in the sex one is attracted to. Did you choose to be heterosexual?

Until you - and everyone else who doesn't get it - comes to understand that, the latent persecution of people will continue to provoke them to speak out and irk those who disagree.
__________________

I'll say it again, just because you WANT to do something doesn't mean its right! Somebody may want to have sex with a sister, or cousin or whatever, does that make it right?

I notice, Earth, you have not replied to my answer despite having explicitly posted it on your profile wall.

Secondly, sarcasm and vague moralist rhetoric are not the foundations of a logically persuasive argument.

The problem is I can spend alot of time and post these huge posts but you know what? I'll have people pick them apart and just disagree with everything. I mean you got people who say I am generalizing because I say females tend to be more emotionally sensitive and caring then males. LMAO, you guys most be joking. Wheres the cameras?

 

[Public'sTwin]

My values were developed at a young age. They have stayed the same because I have found them personally to be right, unlike the values of countless millions which are decided by media and the mainstream.

With all due respect, you are in no position to decide where peoples' opinions are formed.

Was the sudden outbreak of the homosexual lifestyle/marriage in the last 10-15 years because suddenly the world was suddenly enlightened

...and in no way is homosexuality anything new or recent.

I certainly can't remember. All I hear* is wanda sykes, rosie oddonnel or others promotiing it. You talk against homosexuality now and you get blasted.

So here we have the popular view of today, homosexuality is a choice.

There is no promotion of homosexuality. There is no product being sold, nobody telling you to be gay. You know why?

Because if you aren't - you aren't. If you are - then those magazines have just made it a little bit easier for others to accept you as such.

Secondly, people get blasted for talking against homosexuality not because they're against it - which is a legitimate personal choice - but because they, like you, are often telling others what they can and cannot do. You, a human of no particular divine origin - like all of us, has no grant to govern the personal interactions of others.

If it is a bonefied choice,

It's not. Bona fide, yes; a choice, no.

then lets teach it in Sex ED. Why discriminate against gay students? Dont they need to know how to have safe gay sex?

They teach reproduction here, not how to have sex - which has a whole slew of entirely different purposes, the least of which is to produce babies.

I just dont think people are thinking of the consquences

...like, kids? Please, elaborate on these consequences for me.

Tell me - are you this forward with your views with the gay people you meet in real life?

That's not what she was saying; responsible parenting is responsible parenting regardless of orientation.

If the child turns out to be gay - so what? Is that what your point boils down to? That more kids could turn out to be gay?

If genetic indicators are anything - as they have been for the last 2 billion years - I would suspect homosexuality is not a threat or moral danger to mankind as you infer it to be.

You could have two chimps raise a child, but is it best for the baby?

You haven't demonstrated that gay parents are worse than straight parents. This is why every argument of yours is decimated. (Also, I'd like to point out it's in incredibly bad taste to equate 2 women raising a child with chimps.)

I'll say it again, just because you WANT to do something doesn't mean its right!

Just because you DISAGREE, doesn't mean it's wrong!
See what I did there?

Now, to make my argument valid, I have to explain why disagreeing doesn't make it wrong. (I am, however, content with leaving this one alone.)

Somebody may want to have sex with a sister, or cousin or whatever, does that make it right?

Much like you equates lesbians raising kids with them being raised by chimps, incest is legislated by law as inspired by religious understanding of genetics. Relatives = kids with deformities. However, while I personally disapprove of incest - on the basis that so often there is a power imbalance and it's most frequently a form of child abuse - I have no inherent disagreement with a brother and sister who are aware of the genetic implications of ratifying that love and act responsibly.

The problem is I can spend alot of time and post these huge posts but you know what?

We already know you can't form a cohesive argument.

I'll have people pick them apart and just disagree with everything. I mean you got people who say I am generalizing because I say females tend to be more emotionally sensitive and caring then males. LMAO, you guys most be joking. Wheres the cameras?

You are generalizing; you just lumped the group of people who always say you generalize with those who know and can break down the rest of your arguments.

 

[Northstar]

My values were developed at a young age. They have stayed the same because I have found them personally to be right, unlike the values of countless millions which are decided by media and the mainstream. If I didnt belief strongly in my values I would be wishy washy as others are.

Again, you are just proving you have a double standard since it's for some reason ok for you to develop a belief based on what someone else says, yet anyone who is wrong is "wishy washy" because they based their belief based on what someone says.

So here we have the popular view of today, homosexuality is a choice.

If it is a bonefied choice, then lets teach it in Sex ED. Why discriminate against gay students? Dont they need to know how to have safe gay sex?

Lets not forget the lesbians. Lets teach them how to have sex.

I just dont think people are thinking of the consquences

My Statement was that it's not a choice.

Since you seem to be affixed on this sex-ed thing I will talk about that.

Not sure how they do things where you are but here they didn't show us how to do anything. They just taught us what the "parts" were made of/called and the development of the child while in the womb. They also went over STD's and how to prevent them(and yes they mentioned that gay couples can get them).

There was never any mention of how to actually have sex.

 

[Earth]

WHY? Why does that have to be crap for everybody just because you think so?

Why can't you explain to your kids that you think it's wrongto be homosexual, and most importantly WHY it's bad? Hint: you'll need to go into more detail than "It just is."

Why is everybody required to think just like you do?

I've got kids of my own that are your age at least. I've been pondering this question for 40 years myself and haven't found an issue with it. I'm teaching my kids that what others do is their own damn business as long as everybody involved in it consents.

I can't believe you actually wrote this with no apparent irony at all. Where's my Maude Flanders meme?

IF homosexuality is TRULY an alternative lifestyle, and not some type of taboo, then make sure its in every textbook at every level of school, at the elementary level, middle school and highschool. Have it right there when they talk about men and women how they procreate.

Teach it in the sex ED classes. Oh, I know, society is still narrow minded and keeps it out of the schools. Maybe one of these days they should wake up and started treating it as a truly alternative lifestyle that some say it is and not a taboo!

Instead of fighting to keep God of school and textbooks you guys need to fight to put homosexuality in! Now get to work. Start sending your congressmen letters about how legitimate the homosexual lifestyle is, and how it should be recognized at schools and how it should be taught as an alternative lifestyle.

Get to work! Who knows amybe some day you'll have your own plaque at the homosexualhall of fame, im sure you'd be proud!

 

[Northstar]

IF homosexuality is TRULY an alternative lifestyle, and not some type of taboo, then make sure its in every textbook at every level of school, at the elementary level, middle school and highschool. Have it right there when they talk about men and women how they procreate.

I have no idea why you are so hooked on sex ed, not sure I want to know.

In elementary school the only mention of sex ed was when they explained what was going to happen during puberty. They separated the boys and girls and only went over what was going to happen to that respective sex.

In middle school they covered the very basics of reproduction and what things were called.

High School is where the actual talk happened, and as I stated earlier they did cover homosexuality. In all of those classes they never mentioned how to have sex.

 

[Duke]

My values were developed at a young age. They have stayed the same because I have found them personally to be right, unlike the values of countless millions which are decided by media and the mainstream. If I didnt belief strongly in my values I would be wishy washy as others are.

So my values are wishy washy, because they disagree with yours? I'm just blind to the mass liberal media brainwashing?

You're saying I can't have solid values because you don't like what my values are. ********! My values are rock solid and I can back them up with moral logic. Can you?

Was the sudden outbreak of the homosexual lifestyle/marriage in the last 10-15 years because suddenly the world was suddenly enlightened and ha a golden ray of sun shine down on their face or because hollywood, the media and the mainstream pushed it out there as a reasonable alternative lifestyle?

Really? I guess you never watch the Bravo channel, msnbc, a barrack obama speech, hillary clinton or virtually any liberal speech, or the magazines that unveil male actors as homsoexuals as somethiing to be celebrated. Whens the last time you saw a movie or a magazine be anti-gay? I certainly can't remember. All I here is wanda sykes, rosie oddonnel or others promotiing it. You talk against homosexuality now and you get blasted.

PublicSecrecy has already dealt with this point clearly and effectively. To reiterate: homosexuality is nothing new. Nor is tolerance of homosexuality. It's just been on a downturn in the last couple hundred years that it is just know crawling back out of.

So here we have the popular view of today, homosexuality is a choice.

Actually, the popular view is that homosexuality is NOT a choice. Frankly, it's irrelevant as to whether it's a choice or not. People should be allowed to do what they want, as long as all parties consent. That last bit is the crucial part you seem to be missing in your "ZOMG teh gays are coming to rape us all and molest everyone they can find and then we'll all catch gayness" diatribe.

If it is a bonefied choice, then lets teach it in Sex ED. Why discriminate against gay students? Dont they need to know how to have safe gay sex?

You bet they do. Everybody needs to know how to have safe sex. The safest sex, of course, is none. I've got no problem teaching that fact, too.

Lets not forget the lesbians. Lets teach them how to have sex.

I'm pretty sure no human being the history of, well, ever has needed to be taught how to have sex.

I just dont think people are thinking of the consquences

Or it could just be that we're thinking rationally about it and do not agree that there are the same consequences that you do.

I'll say it again, just because you WANT to do something doesn't mean its right! Somebody may want to have sex with a sister, or cousin or whatever, does that make it right?

This is actually one of your less hyperbolic statements, but you'll save everybody a whole lot of typing if you just go read THIS THREAD.

 

[Bram Turismo]

their unnatural lifestyle

Explain.

 

[Roo]

Everything else I'd consider posting has already been covered by everyone else, but this:

Its unnatural.

I feel I can comment on.

I work on a farm, with livestock - cattle and sheep. At least once a week I see a cow trying to mount another cow, or a ram trying to mount another ram, etc. Bear in mind I'm only in each field for half an hour tops, so what they get up to for the rest of the day who knows. Even in a large field of a couple of hundred sheep of both ewes (female sheep) and wethers (castrated male sheep), there's always one wether either mounting or attempting to mount another. I'm fairly sure our animals haven't been exposed to the mainstream media, or at least wouldn't have the faintest idea if they had. Maybe they've got a telly in a corner I haven't noticed.

Anyhoo, is homosexuality still unnatural if it happens in nature?