Gay Marriage

[Scaff]

Earlier on when I said we need a fix I meant like helping them control their weird and unnatural fetish of wanting to fulfill their desires with a man. Like how we have people who help drug addicts because as I said it's a an addiction.

And how exactly would you manage those who refused your 'help'?


Scaff

 

[LizMcQueen]

Interesting topic. I agree of course.

When I think about a gay couple raising a child, my brain tells that it's somehow wrong. I don't know how or why, but it seems wrong.

Can you tell me why?
I don't know why, but everyone who is against gay marriage thinks that children raised by gay parents will be gay too, or worse, that these children will be raped or something. All this is nonsense, we are in the 21st century open your eyes, a gay marriage can raise children equal or better than a marriage between a man and a woman.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Well, my 2 girl dogs humping in the next room over aren't natural then.

In all fairness, dogs humping each other is not an act of sexuality, but an act of domination (a.k.a. showing who's boss/alpha). Sex or gender preference has nothing to do with it.

Carry on now, I'll go back to lurking and watching this discussion with great interest.

 

[Duke]

But unless you yourself are gay, then you would naturally think that being raised by a gay couple is wrong (or disturbing).

YOU might. I sure don't.

 

[Sam48]

Can you tell me why?
I don't know why, but everyone who is against gay marriage thinks that children raised by gay parents will be gay too, or worse, that these children will be raped or something. All this is nonsense, we are in the 21st century open your eyes, a gay marriage can raise children equal or better than a marriage between a man and a woman.

I already told you why. But I will stress again that it just seems wrong to me. In the same way doing you relatives would seem wrong to you.

About the rest of your post, (so I now partially correct myself) I did mention that earlier, but that probably doesn't occur among the majority of gay marriages.

 

[Joey D]

Guess what the best part about a gay marriage is? If it seems wrong to you, you aren't required to get one.

 

[Alex.]

YOU might. I sure don't.

How do you explain to a child why everyone else has a mother?

 

[Jondot]

There's so much I'm not going to reply to in here simply because certain individuals CLEARLY have some issues with homosexuality that aren't going to be resolved here, and indeed shouldn't anyway as this is the wrong thread.

But I will bring up this, simply because it's somewhat amusing and relevant to the topic in hand.

 

[Joey D]

How do you explain to a child why everyone else has a mother?

You explain to them that it works both ways in society.

 

[Keef]

How do you explain to a child why everyone else has a mother?

It's probably best to say that because they don't have a mother that means they're better than everyone else. Wouldn't want to hurt their feelings or make them feel different. We all know feeling different ends in suicide by the time they reach 17.

 

[LizMcQueen]

I already told you why.

No Sam, you haven't done it.
you say:

When I think about a gay couple raising a child, my brain tells that it's somehow wrong. I don't know how or why, but it seems wrong.

but that is not a reason, what is the difference between, for example, a child raised by a widower and another raised by a gay marriage (men)? in both cases that child grows up without a mother, without a female figure nearby. I need to know what are the differences that you see.

 

[niky]

How do you explain to a child why everyone else has a mother?

Everyone else is unlucky. They only have one mother-figure...

 

[Sam48]

but that is not a reason, what is the difference between, for example, a child raised by a widower and another raised by a gay marriage (men)? in both cases that child grows up without a mother, without a female figure nearby. I need to know what are the differences that you see.

I don't know the full effect on a child's mind when growing up in either environment, so I can't make any real predictions here. (yes I know I did earlier, but I was feeling a little bit more confidant then) (It would be quite an interesting experiment if someone recorded the life's of people growing up in different environments, although because nobodies the same, it would be quite a difficult one as well)

 

[Apok]

I don't know the full effect on a child's mind when growing up in either environment, so I can't make any real predictions here. (yes I know I did earlier, but I was feeling a little bit more confidant then) (It would be quite an interesting experiment if someone recorded the life's of people growing up in different environments, although because nobodies the same, it would be quite a difficult one as well)

So can you make any other arguments?(That it feels "wrong" does not count)

 

[CraftyLandShark]

I don't know the full effect on a child's mind when growing up in either environment, so I can't make any real predictions here. (yes I know I did earlier, but I was feeling a little bit more confidant then) (It would be quite an interesting experiment if someone recorded the life's of people growing up in different environments, although because nobodies the same, it would be quite a difficult one as well)

The point that this illuminates is simple - you feel it's wrong but you have no way of knowing it's wrong. Do you think it's acceptable to enact legislation that abrogates the parental rights of individuals on the basis of 'feelings'?

Further, here's an interesting scenario, addressed to all those opposed to gay parents. There are plenty of gay people, particularly of the baby boom generation, who felt such enormous social pressure that they got married and "faked" their way through the sexual act enough times to have children. Many are now (amicably or not) divorced from their wives and have or share custody of their children. I forget his name, but the first gay man to be consecrated by the U.S. Episcopalian church is in this situation. He is amicably divorced from his wife, and now is in a committed relationship with a man. He and his partner share custody of his child(ren?) with the child(ren?)'s mother.

Do we repossess these children too, or just the ones the law 'mistakenly' allowed 'lifelong' gays to adopt?

 

[Famine]

About the rest of your post, (so I now partially correct myself) I did mention that earlier, but that probably doesn't occur among the majority of gay marriages.

Just to clarify, you're saying the majority of gay marriages involving children do not average out to be about as good as straight marriages in bringing those children up?

There's no reason I can think of why two guys or two girls cannot be every bit as good, bad or average as a guy and a girl bringing up a kid.

How do you explain to a child why everyone else has a mother?

Everyone else except those brought up by just their father - divorce and death happen in straight marriages too.

And let's not forget lesbian couples, eh?

 

[Sam48]

Just to clarify, you're saying the majority of gay marriages involving children do not average out to be about as good as straight marriages in bringing those children up?

There's no reason I can think of why two guys or two girls cannot be every bit as good, bad or average as a guy and a girl bringing up a kid.
]

Actually it's the other way around. I said, " being raised by a gay couple will harm the child's brain in some way" (you can read the real post, It was along those lines). I corrected myself by saying it probably doesn't happen among the majority of those marriages though.

 

[Famine]

Actually it's the other way around. I said, " being raised by a gay couple will harm the child's brain in some way" (you can read the real post, It was along those lines). I corrected myself by saying it probably doesn't happen among the majority of those marriages though.

I see. It probably doesn't happen among the majority of other marriages, or other situations a child can be brought up outside of a man-woman marriage either.

There is no particular reason that a guy-guy or girl-girl marriage will produce better or worse children than a guy-girl marriage or any other type of family.

 

[LizMcQueen]

I said, " being raised by a gay couple will harm the child's brain in some way"

ok, but I don't understand why you see "wrong" that a child be raised by a gay marriage.
I have a question, my mother died when I was little girl and I grew up with my father and my three older brothers (that is, without a female figure), do you think that influenced my brain? and as my childhood was not in a woman-man marriage... am I "normal"?

by the way... look what a coincidence, she is against marriage gay too

 

[Joey D]

am I "normal"?

No, you are a female on a video game site.


I'm still trying to figure out what argument those again gay marriage have that actually holds any weight. We shouldn't make laws based off of one's religion so saying the Bible condemns isn't good enough. What I want to see from the anti-gay marriage camp is solid research that suggests a same-sex home can be detrimental to a child.

 

[Neal]

All children are born without prejudice so it makes no difference to them who their parents are. All a child needs is to be loved and brought up in secure and encouraging home by a supportive family. We live in an amazingly diverse world were no two families are the same so there is always going to be something different about you and your family from the next person. The nuclear family is no longer the only acceptable way to raise a child.

Just because your own prejudices and preconceptions deem that another family doesn’t fit your ideal doesn’t mean you should judge them as wrong. It is these kind of prejudices that influence children and ultimately continue the cycle of hate and fear of alternative ways of life. Surely we have a responsibility as members of modern society to accept everyone on their own merits and not behave like it’s the middle ages and alienate anyone who is different from ourselves?

 

[Duke]

How do you explain to a child why everyone else has a mother?

"Well, since your other father and I obviously couldn't make a baby of our own, we decided to adopt you! And we're glad you came to live with us."

Done.

 

[Sam48]

ok, but I don't understand why you see "wrong" that a child be raised by a gay marriage.
I have a question, my mother died when I was little girl and I grew up with my father and my three older brothers (that is, without a female figure), do you think that influenced my brain? and as my childhood was not in a woman-man marriage... am I "normal"?

I never said there was anything wrong with "it", I stated that I felt it was some how wrong. There may be nothing at all wrong with it, but I just personally have a disliking of the whole concept.

An example is as follows: Your brother needs to borrow your brand new Ferrari Italia. You know he'll be careful not to scratch the paint or rap it round a tree, being the man he is. But there's always that "what if" that keeps you from saying "sure, be back by 7".

 

[Joey D]

An example is as follows: Your brother needs to borrow your brand new Ferrari Italia. You know he'll be careful not to scratch the paint or rap it round a tree, being the man he is. But there's always that "what if" that keeps you from saying "sure, be back by 7".

That example doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

But a rapping Ferrari? That'd be awesome.

"Yo Yo Yo I'm a prancing horse, of course and I accelerate with brute force. Word to your motha dawg!"

 

[DK]

And how exactly would you manage those who refused your 'help'?


Scaff

Apparently it would involve concentration camps and BNP members as guards.

 

[Sam48]

That example doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

But a rapping Ferrari? That'd be awesome.

"Yo Yo Yo I'm a prancing horse, of course and I accelerate with brute force. Word to your motha dawg!"

Not the best example, but if you read the last page, I think you'll get the point. I've run out of examples.

Where did you get the idea of a rapping Ferrari? Did I say something, or did you just make this up?

 

[tyl0r_r]

The provision of a loving home environment with ample opportunity to develop and lead a productive life is something that MANY, MANY children of heterosexual unions DO NOT GET.

The existence of a mother and a father is FAR from a guarantee of a healthy upbringing and does not preclude the possibility of abuse/abject poverty/crap life.

Heterosexual couples can have sex, birth a child, rinse and repeat. Social workers can become involved if things are bad enough/reported. Or it could work out great and you get a 'normal' development.

Homosexual couples would obviously have to adopt. Adoption services have painfully detailed screening processes. It is not a GUARANTEE, but it is a LOT better a shot at a safe upbringing than the ZERO screening processes necessary for the creation of a baby in the heterosexual instance.

Homosexual couples who pass such screenings would do so because they would have been found capable of providing the healthy and safe environment useful in development.

Homosexual couples who fail such screenings cannot have a child.

Ergo, if we're going for normal development, the adoption route does seem at least as safe.

Ergo, children adopted by homosexual parents are not doomed. I have shown that they have an equal or better chance than do non-adopted children of heterosexual couples of gaining a healthy environment.

The sex of the parents does not determine the environment they can provide. In our world, one's financial state and their internal motivation of wanting to be a good parent are what determines the environment that they can provide.

Stop quibbling about what you'll tell Timmy so he'll fit in with the brats at school and realize that Timmy's already won by having lived in an environment that has allowed him to live long enough to get to school, supported him through the journey so that he'll get something out of it [and thus make arguments based on fact and not what 'feels wrong to me'], and nurtured him so that he will end up having his shoes cleaned by the children who were dumb enough to make fun of him for having two daddies when he was little.

Nobody's retorted anything I've posted in this whole thread (because I'm correct, I assume).

Show me how I'm wrong.

Edit for pre-emptive responces: If anyone's going to rehash the 'raised by homosexual parents will hurt the child's brain' argument I expect them to provide evidence or at least a coherent theoretical backing (preferably based in actual psychological science). Otherwise, STFU because your words are empty guesses.

 

[Joey D]

Not the best example, but if you read the last page, I think you'll get the point. I've run out of examples.

Where did you get the idea of a rapping Ferrari? Did I say something, or did you just make this up?

I did read the last page, I'm still not getting it.

And rapping Ferrari:

An example is as follows: Your brother needs to borrow your brand new Ferrari Italia. You know he'll be careful not to scratch the paint or rap it round a tree, being the man he is. But there's always that "what if" that keeps you from saying "sure, be back by 7".

 

[CraftyLandShark]

The provision of a loving home environment with ample opportunity to develop and lead a productive...

(more stuff that makes sense)

Nobody's retorted anything I've posted in this whole thread (because I'm correct, I assume).

Show me how I'm wrong.

Edit for pre-emptive responces: If anyone's going to rehash the 'raised by homosexual parents will hurt the child's brain' argument I expect them to provide evidence or at least a coherent theoretical backing (preferably based in actual psychological science). Otherwise, STFU because your words are empty guesses.

There are no coherent replies to any of the sensible claims made on this topic because, at their base, the opposing claims are based on religion, hysteria, or "feelings" as opposed to reasoned thought.

As things are now (in most places), none of those form sufficient basis for prohibitive legislation. Let's hope that doesn't change. Unfortunately, their entrenched presence in the voting public, particularly in America, makes it difficult for positive legislation on the issue to arise - not that there should be any need for such legislation in a proper society.

 

[LizMcQueen]

I was reading this on wikipedia:
Same-sex marriage
LGBT adoption

and looking at all those maps, I see the world (and especially the United States) too outdated