Gran Turismo 7 Daytona Speedway Gameplay Revealed

  • Thread starter Famine
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Nice looking game. A little too clean in my opinion. More like a techdemo kind of thing.

A.I could be much better. Hopefully this is on the easiest difficulty level. It seems like the A.I is not even driving full throttle.

Not impressed by the audio either.
 
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Fight me if you want, but why are people so worried about AI, when the real worries of the game should be that of the campaign structure (such as the championships/event list) and the car selection in Arcade Mode?
 
a better idea is to do what other games do and have a slider for AI ability,
I personally hope we dont get this in campaign mode..
The whole idea is to get better cars and improve your own driving if youre too slow.
Instead of making them artificially faster, why not just make ur car slower?

Wouldn't a slider ruin the whole points system,
How would a slider work?

Or do you mean a slider for aggressiveness?
 
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Does this video shows how AI reacts on different settings (easy, medium, hard)? Nope. So we don't know much.
Do they show the game running lower graphics than maximum? Do they compress the sound so it doesn't sound very good? No. Game developers show off their game in the best light possible. If the game had fast, competetive AI like nothing we'd seen before why wouldn't you show it off at every chance? Give me one logical reason why not. It's one thing to keep it under wraps by only showing solo laps, but once you show videos with AI, why would you throw in the old, slow AI from the past games?

Like I said several times, we've been here before. You weren't here, so I'll excuse you, but the exact same things were said about pre-release Gran Turismo 6 videos, yet guess what, the final game turned out to be exactly the same as the pre-release videos. Because that's how it works. We're not 12 months or more away from release, we're weeks out. Probably only two weeks before it goes gold.
 
Does this video shows how AI reacts on different settings (easy, medium, hard)? Nope. So we don't know much.
We don't even know if those options will be available in career mode. The best case scenario would be that they will (or that the options will be even further expanded) and that this is an example of a lower tier of AI. But until Polyphony says something explicit, that's unlikely to be the case based on their 7 previous games.
I personally hope we dont get this in campaign mode..
The whole idea is to get better cars and improve your own driving if youre too slow.
Instead of making them artificially faster, why not just make ur car slower?

Wouldn't a slider ruin the whole points syste,
How would a slider work?

Or do you mean a slider for aggressiveness?
The problem with making your car slower is that it results in odd racing. A fast car driving slowly and a slow car being driven fast get around the track in pretty different ways, and so you don't end up with the sort of passing battles and racecraft that would normally result from two similar cars being driven at similar speeds.

I suspect what they mean is similar to the difficulty settings that are in games like Forza Motorsport or F1 2021 - it's essentially a slider that dictates the speed/skill of your opponents. It doesn't need to break any points systems, there's any number of ways to solve that problem.

Some games have a slider for aggressiveness, but I don't think that's desirable in a casual friendly game. Keep the AI relatively clean and players will be a lot less frustrated.
What is the problem with these people who are saying that the sound is amazing? You can barely hear the engine noise! The real car has a louder and more aggressive sound and i have the impression that it is even lower than in the GT Sport..
The sounds seem decent enough to me, but the volume doesn't seem to change with distance from the camera much. In the replay when switching between cameras the car noise always seems to be at more or less the same level no matter how far from the track the camera is. It's very odd, some of those long shots that are really zoomed in you'd expect to hardly hear individual cars at all compared to some of the cameras right beside the track.

It feels like a bug of some sort, Gran Turismo is better with replay sounds than that.
 
Do they show the game running lower graphics than maximum? Do they compress the sound so it doesn't sound very good? No. Game developers show off their game in the best light possible. If the game had fast, competetive AI like nothing we'd seen before why wouldn't you show it off at every chance? Give me one logical reason why not. It's one thing to keep it under wraps by only showing solo laps, but once you show videos with AI, why would you throw in the old, slow AI from the past games?

Like I said several times, we've been here before. You weren't here, so I'll excuse you, but the exact same things were said about pre-release Gran Turismo 6 videos, yet guess what, the final game turned out to be exactly the same as the pre-release videos. Because that's how it works. We're not 12 months or more away from release, we're weeks out. Probably only two weeks before it goes gold.
"Game developers show off their game in the best light possible.''

Jup, maybe they show us how Arcade mode AI on easy level shows they in best light possible.😀
 
It'd be great if the AI drivers just stayed in pit stop så PD didn't have to waste resources on this advanced but meaningless ******** when everyone's got internet.

Yes, this is my opinion, quite the opposite from yours. There are a lot of people who couldn't care less about AI.
 
I personally hope we dont get this in campaign mode..
The whole idea is to get better cars and improve your own driving if youre too slow.
Instead of making them artificially faster, why not just make ur car slower?

Wouldn't a slider ruin the whole points system,
How would a slider work?

Or do you mean a slider for aggressiveness?
The point is to set a difficulty based on your general skill. If you are entering races and winning easily, turn it up. The opposite if you can't win anything. If you get better naturally, turn it back up again.

The entire basis of racing is that competition is fair, that everyone abides to some sort of rules (Yes in many leagues one team can dominate but they still played by the rules, usually). You don't let someone enter a Clio race with a Ferrari and likewise you don't detune your Clio if the competition are too slow for you, you move up to a faster league/competition. That's not practical in a video game so that's where difficulty levels come in.

Making your car slower is a crutch and not always possible. If I enter a Gr.3 race with fixed performance and it's too easy, what do I do. Set off a few seconds later to give them a head start? Drive slower on purpose? I have to if there is no higher difficulty setting.

"Game developers show off their game in the best light possible.''

Jup, maybe they show us how Arcade mode AI on easy level shows they in best light possible.😀
What? You're dodging the question with nonsense.

It'd be great if the AI drivers just stayed in pit stop så PD didn't have to waste resources on this advanced but meaningless ******** when everyone's got internet.

Yes, this is my opinion, quite the opposite from yours. There are a lot of people who couldn't care less about AI.
They are the minority, I'm afraid. The stats for GTS are quite clear, the majority of people do not race online.
 
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First next gen GT game to look similar to the previous gen in looks and content, but not surprised ofc. This is what the people wanted, an upgraded base ps4 game, that more people can play.

I remember GT3 being so much lower in content, but the next gen experience over shadowed everything else. Then there was GT5 that made a huge leap in graphical quality and features. Then came GT Sport that nearly bought the GT3 experience with another leap in visuals with little content, but it wasn’t even a proper traditional GT game, so it failed for me. I still got many hours from it tho, but only because I have a driving rig to keep me engaged.

This is what was supposed to be the game we were to be experiencing back in 2013-2014, so that’s how I’m going to look at it. Heck, it’s even called GT7, the successor to Ps3’s GT6. Kaz either just wanted to focus on E sports in the meanwhile, or development is just slow.

Here’s to GT8 to truly experience current generation Gran Turismo and hopefully not so much focused on E-Sports, or at least not the main focus.
If GT7 is gonna suck how about PD get their act together not make it suck. What makes you think GT8 will be any better?
 
What is the problem with these people who are saying that the sound is amazing? You can barely hear the engine noise! The real car has a louder and more aggressive sound and i have the impression that it is even lower than in the GT Sport..
That's true. Listen to onboard vids of GT3 cars, it sounds a lot more "open", ACC captures this so well:





Also, I just can't understand how PD isn't up to snuff when it comes to AI. I mean, Kunos has literally ONE MAN designing theirs, yet ACC's AI can be very "realistically" quick and aggressive.

We don't know if PD has just put the AI on braindead mode for these vids...but if this is really it then they've got no excuse.
 
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Seems like you're ignoring how FM solved that problem - Drivatars.



It's far from a new idea and Polyphony would presumably have plenty of data from player laps in GTS had they chosen to collect it. It seems unlikely that they've done so, despite it being one of the best and most obvious ways to deal with what is a relatively difficult problem to deal with at this scale by traditional hand crafted behavioural structures.

As you say, it's a lot of work to do well for all these cars and tracks, so the sensible thing is just to have the players and the computer do the work for you. Work smarter, not harder. Solutions to these problems exist, Polyphony just still seems averse to using them.

I still think it's intentional - they don't want faster AI, and they don't want AI that the player can choose to change the difficulty. That's their design, and they're sticking with it. I think it's objectively bad design, but it's their game and their choice to make.

Oh, yeah, I did kinda forget about that lmao. Been so long since I played Forza that Drivatars skipped my mind.
Maybe a good solution would be a slider for the AI performance, like in Project CARS or F1. Project Cars has a lot of different race classes and the AI in those classes is sometimes good by default, but also sometimes rather bad, but you can adjust the performance to match your own.
Assetto also has an AI slider system, but if the line or the AI hints (which help the AI figure out braking and acceleration points for their car) are suboptimal for what the AI is driving, then it doesn't really matter if you set them to max since they're still going to be slow.
 
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It'd be great if the AI drivers just stayed in pit stop så PD didn't have to waste resources on this advanced but meaningless ******** when everyone's got internet.

Yes, this is my opinion, quite the opposite from yours. There are a lot of people who couldn't care less about AI.
Which is fine but there's a reason they're not making Gran Turismo Sport 2. People like the single player stuff. Online is great, but unfortunately it's quite niche.

There is an advantage for you though. Even if you don't play with the AI, the more people buy the game for single player the more chance there is that some of them will discover the same passion you have for online. You'll have more people to race against if the single player is good than if the game just didn't include single player at all.

Even if you plan to never start a single player campaign, you should want it to be as good as possible to draw in those sweet nublets for you to crush.
If GT7 is gonna suck how about PD get their act together not make it suck. What makes you think GT8 will be any better?
People have been saying this for decades at this point.
 
Took them 20+ years to catch up to Ridge Racer Type 4 jk lol yeah in all seriousness it makes the courses feel alive and realistic. I hope there's crowd noise as well to go with the other ambiance
Planes taking off and landing near the track is a real thing IRL, there's an airport more or less on-site.

Screenshot 2022-01-14 at 13.28.18.png


Also, unrelated, but not surprise to see that same group of users arguing with others purely for expressing their opinion.
 
Does this video shows how AI reacts on different settings (easy, medium, hard)? Nope. So we don't know much.
.
Jup, maybe they show us how Arcade mode AI on easy level shows they in best light possible.😀

Even if this was the case we would still be able to judge it based on how it races against other AI cars.

And that's not showing much change from past titles.

This is what we should be be getting.

 
Took them 20+ years to catch up to Ridge Racer Type 4 jk lol yeah in all seriousness it makes the courses feel alive and realistic. I hope there's crowd noise as well to go with the other ambiance
As someone who's raced quite a lot before, maybe have this as an option so you can turn it off. You don't really hear the fans unless they're absolutely losing their damn minds, and even then it's only under caution, when you're going slow and the engine is relatively quiet compared to full shout.
 
This video looks much better than the three original tracks gameplays we've seen so far.
How good would it be if PD remake the original tracks while preserving the "original" layout and landscape?
 
.

Even if this was the case we would still be able to judge it based on how it races against other AI cars.

And that's not showing much change from past titles.

This is what we should be be getting.


I understand.👌🏼
 
There's a really nasty Burger King just off the top of the image there too.
Yeah but more importantly the Wing House is visible in that image.

Can't wait to be back there next year.

Also - that Target across the street is where I learned just how loud the turbo V6's in the Ford GT's were when I was DEEP in the store during a practice and you could still clearly hear them through the building.
 
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As you say, it's a lot of work to do well for all these cars and tracks, so the sensible thing is just to have the players and the computer do the work for you. Work smarter, not harder. Solutions to these problems exist, Polyphony just still seems averse to using them.
I agree with this, machine learning is the way to go with AI.

It would actually be a great marketing opportunity for PD. Forza's Drivatars, while decent, have a lot of problems, so why not go above and beyond and try something similar with better results? I actually recall Kaz (or someone else in PD) discussing how they'd like to utilise AI machine learning, So... Why not? :banghead:
 
Fight me if you want, but why are people so worried about AI, when the real worries of the game should be that of the campaign structure (such as the championships/event list) and the car selection in Arcade Mode?
They're both concerns but AI is surely the priority, PD could craft the greatest campaign structure ever in gaming and it'd all be for nothing if the races themselves had terrible AI. GT6 had a pretty silly campaign format with the stars system borrowed from a mobile game Kaz liked at the time but I could have lived with that and finished it if the races weren't catch the rabbit with dawdling AI.

I agree with this, machine learning is the way to go with AI.

It would actually be a great marketing opportunity for PD. Forza's Drivatars, while decent, have a lot of problems, so why not go above and beyond and try something similar with better results? I actually recall Kaz (or someone else in PD) discussing how they'd like to utilise AI machine learning, So... Why not? :banghead:
Quite. They've already done it once, they came out with a livery editor that was on-par with the Forza one in most regards and even better in others, so they've proven they can copy Forza and one-up them if they put the right people on it. So, as you say, why not? So frustrating.
 
I agree with this, machine learning is the way to go with AI.

It would actually be a great marketing opportunity for PD. Forza's Drivatars, while decent, have a lot of problems, so why not go above and beyond and try something similar with better results? I actually recall Kaz (or someone else in PD) discussing how they'd like to utilise AI machine learning, So... Why not? :banghead:

They have already created an AI that can beat the best drivers.

"The research, conducted by Sony AI — a recently created subsidiary of Sony to study applications for AI — follows up on a similar study from August 2020, but with some key differences.

In the previous study, the authors used a reinforcement learning method to teach an AI to go as fast as it possibly could based purely on its physical interactions with the environment. It learned what paths resulted in collisions and slower lap times, and eventually achieved “super-human” performance, beating even the best Gran Turismo Sport drivers over a lap."

 
What is the problem with these people who are saying that the sound is amazing? You can barely hear the engine noise! The real car has a louder and more aggressive sound and i have the impression that it is even lower than in the GT Sport..
The sound got converted to mono in the video, that is the issue. Check the Deep Forest gameplay vid, everything is correct there.
 
They have already created an AI that can beat the best drivers.

"The research, conducted by Sony AI — a recently created subsidiary of Sony to study applications for AI — follows up on a similar study from August 2020, but with some key differences.

In the previous study, the authors used a reinforcement learning method to teach an AI to go as fast as it possibly could based purely on its physical interactions with the environment. It learned what paths resulted in collisions and slower lap times, and eventually achieved “super-human” performance, beating even the best Gran Turismo Sport drivers over a lap."

Oh damn, that's actually pretty cool to see. :dopey:

I guess the question remains is if this technology is going to be utilised in GT7, or if they're still using their old traditional AI methods. I can only hope that the AI in the Daytona trailer was on the dumbest setting... We'll see when it comes out I guess.
 
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They have already created an AI that can beat the best drivers.

"The research, conducted by Sony AI — a recently created subsidiary of Sony to study applications for AI — follows up on a similar study from August 2020, but with some key differences.

In the previous study, the authors used a reinforcement learning method to teach an AI to go as fast as it possibly could based purely on its physical interactions with the environment. It learned what paths resulted in collisions and slower lap times, and eventually achieved “super-human” performance, beating even the best Gran Turismo Sport drivers over a lap."

Interesting that you quote that but don't seem to understand it. Unless you don't mean Polyphony Digital when you say "they", despite responding to a post about Polyphony Digital's AI.

Neither the original machine-learning study nor the quoted visual machine-learning study are anything to do with Polyphony Digital's AI for Gran Turismo. I explained that in both articles, and actually reading both papers makes it abundantly clear.

I guess the question remains is if this technology is going to be utilised in GT7, or they're still using their old traditional AI methods.
This technology absolutely will not be used in GT7. Neither study was actually conducted by PD.
 
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