Gran Turismo 7: Latest news and discussion thread

[TheAdmiester]

But he did say something about current update:

Just FYI while I do know the contents of the next update, I don't know the timing. The update I'm referring to could be June or it could be July, but I was just guessing it'd be June because I had no reason to expect a change of schedule.

 

[JDM_GT7]

NB Miata (not sure on trim level)

 

[Nebuc72]

In regular AI races they drive full throttle. Only in custom races are they limited to 97% throttle after the first braking zone. Really hope they’ll fix it, but I don’t really have much hope. I’m not sure if they’re even aware of it.

If I recall correctly, they tried to fix it (same with the tyre bug) but it was a halfway fix - intended as a full fix I’m sure, but I think at launch they would use 97% throttle even from the start of the race, before any braking.

I believe an update in 2022/2023 changed it so they were full throttle off the line, but when they brake, from then on their throttle will be limited to 97%.

They are aware of it, I fed it through Mikail Hizal and PD confirmed it's an intentional design decision, lol. Same with the forced rubber banding.

 

[Theufcveteran]

They are aware of it, I fed it through Mikail Hizal and PD confirmed it's an intentional design decision, lol. Same with the forced rubber banding.

No way. Are you ****ing kidding me. What the actual ****. That is dog-**** design. Jesus man what is with this company.

I can’t believe it. How can you be a AAA dev with such a stupid design decision? They literally have difficulty options. It’d be one thing if they had none and their AI was rocketship fast and unfair, but they do, and it isn’t. You have to balance your own car around it.

Piss poor.

 

[galahad]

They are aware of it, I fed it through Mikail Hizal and PD confirmed it's an intentional design decision, lol. Same with the forced rubber banding.

Classic "it's a feature not a bug" situation here🤣

 

[TumeK5]

Jesus man what is with this company.

You're questioning that now?

PD could do so much better with GT7 in general, but they choose not to. I mean, you should know, as the creator of a career mode...

 

[nathanh1108]

They are aware of it, I fed it through Mikail Hizal and PD confirmed it's an intentional design decision, lol. Same with the forced rubber banding.

I did a custom race yesterday, I drove the '97 McLaren GTR and an opponent had the '95 short version. Normal difficulty, boost set to "weak". It certainly felt competitive, because the older McLaren was still on my tail despite being about 60 pp below the car I was driving. I didn't set the fastest lap either.

 

[Theufcveteran]

You're questioning that now?

PD could do so much better with GT7 in general, but they choose not to. I mean, you should know, as the creator of a career mode...

Hah! Yes, indeed, they can. But man, I would not have expected something like this of PD. This feels like design common sense rather than a mis-step. I suppose you could argue the same regarding the menu book system to a degree, but if so, I think there are levels to it, they should’ve done better with the menus but perhaps they just didn’t have the right focus in mind. Which is still a fault of design, but I can at least imagine they had good intentions with it.

With this, come on. Play your own game and see how it is has zero benefit in intention or in reality. There are other balancing methods already in the game - don’t meddle with AI on an un-adjustable level when it simply makes them worse. Competitiveness can be dialled back with difficulty options.

To have overlooked every other measure in the game to increase competitiveness, is a massive failure. And quite frankly, whoever was responsible should be subject to an internal review to explain their decision.

I’m not saying they should be fired, but just explain your reasoning and why you thought it was beneficial.

Then, bring up counterpoints as to why it’s a bad idea and either the person continues to learn (or maybe this is one error of design and they are otherwise good designers) or they realise the mistake and avoid it in future, considering all other in-game measures towards a specific goal, before adjusting something on a level that the player has no control over.

PD are so frustrating. They have a wonderful physics system dogged by poor design - and to be quite honest, when you have the past to compare to, the menu books become less defensible even as design with good intentions. Because you can compare to the past and realise how it stacks up, what the past does better and why.

Whoever is making the calls needs to do a deep dive into GT3 and GT4’s career structure, and then look at everyone around them in the racing genre. And then, with all of that in mind, combine those learnings with your own goal for the career - avoiding pitfalls, innovating where you can, but don’t innovate for the sake of doing something new - innovate because it’s novel and better than what came before it.

Do better, PD. You have the ability. Hell, even if the people who design the career are newer members (GT5/6 onwards, though the GT League exists, and while not fully featured like GT3/GT4, I imagine at least some who worked on that are still at PD today) - Kaz is still there. No doubt he had some hand in the career structure of the old games, even if he’s just giving his approval or disapproval - changes would’ve been made based on that. Kaz knows what works - or at least I would hope so.

All respect to the man, I don’t know if he’s solely calling the shots on the game design, though I doubt he doesn’t have at least approve/disapprove of the design. But he has a baseline to compare to, and if he’s approving this, then it falls on him too.

Hell, even if the designers are newer to the genre, good designers can still look back at classic GT games and see what worked, or, if you want to separate yourself structure wise, a good designer can come up with something novel and better at the same time. Sure, it may not be easy, but it can be done. They have the time and the budget. So, really, there is no excuse.

 

[PSN offapple]

But is anyone here going to boycott the game, or do anything of actual significance to try and change things? Likely not, even if we should.
Bleak I know, but that's just the reality of the situation. It happened once near the start of GT7's lifecycle, but it's unlikely to happen again unless it's something along the lines of scamming customers.

As for career stuff, GT3's was unbelievably padded looking back. I recently completed it for the first time. There is no need for 3 seperate Yaris/Vitz tournaments, all consisting of 5 races using the exact same tracks with increased lap counts. And that's just one example.
GT4 had a similar issue but to a lesser extent, such as with the rally events. Plus I have never entered most of the one-make events because the event itself seemed fun, but only because of a prize car I looked up on an online guide.

Just having content isn't the solution, it's having the content mean something of significance rather than it just be padding to stretch out the play time like a chore. Achieving that feeling is perhaps more tricky.

For the record, I still do enjoy both GT3 & GT4, otherwise I wouldn't revisit them now and again. Even if the main reason I do so is for the unique tracks rather than the career modes. Same reason why I bought Assetto Corsa & ACC. The unique content.

 

[Theufcveteran]

But is anyone here going to boycott the game, or do anything of actual significance to try and change things? Likely not, even if we should.
Bleak I know, but that's just the reality of the situation. It happened once near the start of GT7's lifecycle, but it's unlikely to happen again unless it's something along the lines of scamming customers.

As for career stuff, GT3's was unbelievably padded looking back. I recently completed it for the first time. There is no need for 3 seperate Yaris/Vitz tournaments, all consisting of 5 races using the exact same tracks with increased lap counts. And that's just one example.
GT4 had a similar issue but to a lesser extent, such as with the rally events. Plus I have never entered most of the one-make events because the event itself seemed fun, but only because of a prize car I looked up on an online guide.

Just having content isn't the solution, it's having the content mean something of significance rather than it just be padding to stretch out the play time like a chore. Achieving that feeling is perhaps more tricky.

For the record, I still do enjoy both GT3 & GT4, otherwise I wouldn't revisit them now and again. Even if the main reason I do so is for the unique tracks rather than the career modes. Same reason why I bought Assetto Corsa & ACC. The unique content.

Previous GTs did have padding issues. Although overall I think GT3 was pretty lean. The repeated events such as the FF, FR, MR challenge etc, give a sense of progression within that car class. You’re right about the Vitz races. But besides a leaner career, what PD can take from them is the progression structure. You can do that with a leaner, or otherwise more meaningful career (i.e not having three near-identical Vitz events).

As for boycotting or something of significance, it’s unfortunate because the underpinnings of the game - the driving - is really good, and enjoyable. I don’t play the single player too much. I’m still on the Super Formula menu book.

I wish we could give feedback direct to PD or in a place where we know that they’ll see, but they seem quite closed off. At least they might view the feedback, but we have no way of knowing. And whether they implement it is another story.

People on GTP, which is the largest GT community, have been very vocal about multiple parts of the game that PD either refuse to even acknowledge or don’t go all the way in fixing them (i.e no post-launch car requires an invite regardless of its price and/or exclusivity, but the invite system still exists without any modification to how it works).

GTP alone I could see not being big enough, but there are community-wide (GTP, Reddit) issues that people have and little has been done about them.

 

[PSN offapple]

Previous GTs did have padding issues. Although overall I think GT3 was pretty lean. The repeated events such as the FF, FR, MR challenge etc, give a sense of progression within that car class. You’re right about the Vitz races. But besides a leaner career, what PD can take from them is the progression structure. You can do that with a leaner, or otherwise more meaningful career (i.e not having three near-identical Vitz events).

As for boycotting or something of significance, it’s unfortunate because the underpinnings of the game - the driving - is really good, and enjoyable. I don’t play the single player too much, I’m still on the Super Formula menu book.

I wish we could give feedback direct to PD or in a place where we know that they’ll see, but they seem quite closed off. At least they might view the feedback, but we have no way of knowing. And whether they implement it is another story.

People on GTP, which is the largest GT community, have been very vocal about multiple parts of the game that PD either refuse to even acknowledge or don’t go all the way in fixing them (i.e no post-launch car requires an invite regardless of its price and/or exclusivity, but the invite system still exists without any modification to how it works).

GTP alone I could see not being big enough, but there are community-wide (GTP, Reddit) issues that people have and little has been done about them.

I saw that you've made your own custom career mode, so I'm interested in seeing how you've gone about structuring things.
I have been developing my own for a while (albeit slowly), so it's cool seeing someone else with a similar idea.
The Custom Race feature I think has been my favourite addition to the GT series ever.
Happy they added a few more A.I. driver nationalities, So I can have S. Buemi from Switzerland, J. M. Lopez from Argentina etc.
Still hope South Africa gets added for the van der Linde brothers though haha.


Tangent Edit: have a broadcast schedule:

 

[MroczMR]

They are aware of it, I fed it through Mikail Hizal and PD confirmed it's an intentional design decision, lol. Same with the forced rubber banding.

This is interesting because I am pretty sure AI uses 100% throttle all the time if you use group cars (like gr.4,3,2,1) and bop set on.

 

[05XR8]

Anyone having server issues just then?

Something is downloading and I don’t know what.
Well, it’s back to normal and I haven’t touched anything. Weird.

 

[Theufcveteran]

This is interesting because I am pretty sure AI uses 100% throttle all the time if you use group cars (like gr.4,3,2,1) and bop set on.

I have tested this with Gr.1 cars, and at least with them, they do not. Until the first braking zone they will, but afterwards they’ll use 97% throttle for the rest of the race.

 

[Aero2000]

But in April the maintenance notice arrived on the first hours of Monday, something that always happens around that time, and it hasn't happened now. I don't want to sound pessimistic, but unless something official drops or @TheAdmiester gives us a shout of what exactly is happening, I don't think we'll see an update this month, but one in early (or even late) July instead. Hope I'm deadly wrong.

Edit: I remember he said that a time trial using an update car helped him define the May 30 update was indeed a thing, let's see if that's the case again.

Nope, the day before, look:

 

[PSN offapple]

I have tested this with Gr.1 cars, and at least with them, they do not. Until the first braking zone they will, but afterwards they’ll use 97% throttle for the rest of the race.

I might be misremembering, but I think that the A.I. doesn't use full throttle even when they artificially boost their pace when the player is leading

 

[Nielsen]

Am I the only one who hates it when someone decides to post an old Kaz tweet when we’re all waiting for a new one? It’s like being told your cancer test came out negative, but then five seconds later the doctor realizes it’s actually positive.

 

[Theufcveteran]

I might be misremembering, but I think that the A.I. doesn't use full throttle even when they artificially boost their pace when the player is leading

Haven’t checked a far-back AI, but it wouldn’t surprise me. Truly a baffling decision, the 97% throttle in custom races.

 

[Skython]

I might be misremembering, but I think that the A.I. doesn't use full throttle even when they artificially boost their pace when the player is leading

That makes it even funnier. After they pit in a race these guys are out there lapping La Sarthe 5 seconds faster than I possibly can without even using full throttle, and then when I pit in the next lap they lap 10 seconds slower than me to balance the 5 seconds they made up while they were rubberbanding last lap. PD view this as the peak gaming experience. The AI seems to be surprisingly complex, it's just they choose to make them rubbish (especially seeing as they can make them work quite well, as evidenced in Clubman Cup + races and the special weekly events), which is hilarious in my mind. Frustrating? Yes, but you just have to laugh or you'll cry.

 

[05XR8]

Is Kaz off world?
Just asking for a friend.

 

[RobertHammer]

Is Kaz off world?
Just asking for a friend.

off X it seems

 

[CTznOfTime]

Is Kaz off world?
Just asking for a friend.

Can someone here just ping him on X Tweeter?
Isnt that what social media is for? Ease of reach?

"Yo man we need yo Shades"

 

[05XR8]

off X it seems

Yeah, I’ve been off that. It’s why I have to wait for someone to post now.

 

[hyperspeed980]

I wish we could give feedback direct to PD or in a place where we know that they’ll see, but they seem quite closed off. At least they might view the feedback, but we have no way of knowing. And whether they implement it is another story.

People on GTP, which is the largest GT community, have been very vocal about multiple parts of the game that PD either refuse to even acknowledge or don’t go all the way in fixing them (i.e no post-launch car requires an invite regardless of its price and/or exclusivity, but the invite system still exists without any modification to how it works).

GTP alone I could see not being big enough, but there are community-wide (GTP, Reddit) issues that people have and little has been done about them.

PD is unfortunately just a black hole of communication, and that's how they've been for the entire history of the franchise. I'm not even sure if they see any of the things people post on social media, honestly.

Edit: Oh, and not to mention the fact that a majority of the complaints people have with GT7 have already been confirmed to be intentional design decisions... no matter how idiotic they may seem.

 

[Theufcveteran]

PD is unfortunately just a black hole of communication, and that's how they've been for the entire history of the franchise. I'm not even sure if they see any of the things people post on social media, honestly.

Yeah, I think the most they ever engaged with the community to my knowledge was with the Kaz Q&A on GTP that never had any answers.

 

[hyperspeed980]

Yeah, I think the most they ever engaged with the community to my knowledge was with the Kaz Q&A on GTP that never had any answers.

I forgot that even happened.
Sums it all up though, doesn't it? Even when the community's asking questions right in front of him, they get no answers.

 

[CMGMS]

There is something I don't understand. After making these types of AA games, why are they not interested in games? Why is what the players say or want not done? This seems so ridiculous to me. Example: GT7 and RDR2

 

[hyperspeed980]

There is something I don't understand. After making these types of AA games, why are they not interested in games? Why is what the players say or want not done? This seems so ridiculous to me. Example: GT7 and RDR2

The publishers don't exactly have an incentive to keep up support for the game beyond the bare minimum if they aren't making enough of a profit from it. It's very rare that we get an NFS Unbound-type situation where the support is extended.

Sucks for the consumer, but that's just the way they do things.

 

[Theufcveteran]

I forgot that even happened.
Sums it all up though, doesn't it? Even when the community's asking questions right in front of him, they get no answers.

Yeah, unfortunately. If I ever become a CEO of Sony Interactive Entertainment, I shall be requesting a community Q&A with Kaz, this time with answers

One can dream, lol.

 

[RobertHammer]

The publishers don't exactly have an incentive to keep up support for the game beyond the bare minimum if they aren't making enough of a profit from it. It's very rare that we get an NFS Unbound-type situation where the support is extended.

Sucks for the consumer, but that's just the way they do things.

yep nowdays its bare minimum from big publishers unless its a big budget game or a on going live service